Help on Noise and Drivers!

Xrtaea

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Dec 11, 2003
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I have several questions to ask and i think the best way to do it is by also giving you all a general picture of my situation. Since this is probably going to be a long post, my apologies to anyone that might find it tedious...
Here goes then...

I have two systems that i'm working with:

One is a system i put together 2 years ago and set up specifically as part of a bigger sound editing/design rig. I went to great pains to set it up the best way i could. It runs perfectly, i have no complaints. The only other thing it occasionaly is used for is to run some game sometimes, when i need some kind of a break...

When i was puting the system together the graphics card that i used was a GF2 mx400, solely because i had no special demands from a graphics card, i just needed something that runs well, is stable and MOST importantly is silent. And i was and still am ok with it since it runs everything that i tried maxed out at 800x600. Of course, sometimes when i try higher resolutions frames drop but i'm perfectly ok with that. Most importantly there was no game that i couldn't run (except DX9 of course). Even many newer ones will run fine with it (it was so interesting seeing all those posts in various forums about how ppl with MUCH better cards than that had serious problems running specific games while i had absolutely none! Of course, most of them ended up blaming the game itself as being buggy and not their systems. Goes to show how little some know sometimes, but anyway...)

The other system is used mainly for image editing and more general use. Putting it together (more than a year ago) i again had no demands from a graphics card so i picked a GF4 mx440 since i was not going to use it to play games a lot. System works fine, the card works fine maxed out, sometimes with some games it won't run higher than 800x600 but like i said before it's ok with me, i don't have high demands.

BUT...

Lately, 2 games that i really, REALLY waited for a long time came out but they both need a more powerful card to run at all. So, i started thinking about getting another card for my first system.

The way things are now with graphic cards i know that i am not exactly pleased with the way they perform. Sure, i could get a medium to high end card and get much better results compared to what i get now, BUT i have a problem with their noise levels plus i think it would be wiser to wait for the new ones in a few months since they should be better.

Thing is, i found a GF4 ti4200 64mb for $50 that seems like a good idea to get since afterwards i won't have to upgrade soon plus even if i do i would only have spend $50 for this... So here comes the first question:

<b>
1) How much more noisy is the GF4ti compared to the GF2mx??? What other equivalent card would be a better option compared to the GF4 TI based on NOISE levels????


2) I was not aware that nvidia's drivers are a bitch to remove. I also don't know if i will need to remove them (instead of just uninstalling them) when i replace the one i have with another of nvidia's cards. Do i need to? Is there problems when you replace with another nvidia or is it just with ATI?

</b>
A month ago i installed a recently released game on my second system. The drivers i was using were 41.09, i think.
I decided to upgrade the drivers, i thought that maybe it would be a sensible thing to do since the game was brand new so that the game would run as best as possible.

So i did it without uninstalling the game (something i would normally never do, but since it's a dual boot i can afford to experiment sometimes). I could d/load the newer ForceWare drivers but i thought that maybe those will better fit the FX series (is that true?)so i picked 45.43(or something)instead (because of it's nview3).

And THEN the game wouldn't work plus there were a lot of black-screens when opening the card's settings from the desktop. I uninstalled those drivers and got the 53.04. Everything worked fine ever since.

But the fact that the 45.xx driver did not work for my card made me think long and hard about drivers in general.

Then i started reading the threads here. I always thought that newer drivers are supposed to be better bug-wise and performance-wise especially since nvidia's share the same architecture and work for all their series.
But from what i've read there are people that think that certain drivers are better for certain cards. That older cards are better with older drivers. I can understand that it might stand true in terms of speed but does it also stand true in terms of stability?

Am i wrong to assume that the newest the driver (with some possible exception) the more stable it is? If i am wrong then:

<b>
3) Which ones would be considered as the best drivers for GF2 mx400, GF4 mx440 and GF4 Ti 4200 in terms of stability and which in terms of speed???? Do those drivers work better with a specific version of DX??


4) What happens if some older driver is faster (as some people say 44.03) but you want to use a newer DX version that the driver does not support? Won't you have to upgrade?
</b>

I know that there are plenty of ppl here that have the technical know-how to answer my questions. Thank you so much for any help you can give me and once again i'm sorry for the length of this post.
 

cleeve

Illustrious
1. Not that much, really. It would certainly be louder, but Ti cards don't have obnoxious fans.
If you want quietness, get yourself a Sapphire Radeon 9600 XT ULTIMATE edition:

<A HREF="http://www.sapphiretech.com/vga/9600-xt-ult.asp" target="_new">http://www.sapphiretech.com/vga/9600-xt-ult.asp</A>

Completely silent, no fan at all, and more powerful than a Geforce4 Ti

2. It's a crap shoot, really... I've seen systems work fine replacing an Nvidia card with an Ati right out of the box, and I've seen systems go all wonky. Basically, do your best to remove the detonators using a Detonator removal utility and cross your fingers.

3. For older cards, you'll probably want to ask this question at an Nvidia fan forum somewhere, but maybe someone here will know.

4. Using a non-DX9 driver would potentially be a problem if you want to run a DX9 game. Personally, I'd just use the newest versions of the Nvidia drivers available because the performance difference (if any) will hardly be noticable real-world, but it's not worth the compatibility issues.


________________
<b>Radeon <font color=red>9500 PRO</b></font color=red> <i>(hardmodded 9500, o/c 322/322)</i>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>2600+</b></font color=red> <i>(o/c 2400+ w/143Mhz fsb)</i>
<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>4,055</b></font color=red>
 

pauldh

Illustrious
I agree with Cleeve.

For questions 3 & 4, on GF4's and older I stick to the 4403 drivers. When/if a problem ever arises in a game, then I'd try the newest ones. I have had good luck with Ti4200's and those drivers in just about any game I've tried.

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9500 Pro, Santa Cruz, Antec 1000AMG, TruePower 430watt
 

Xrtaea

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Dec 11, 2003
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So, you are saying that replacing an nvidia with another nvidia should pose no problems?????

In case i decide to use the 44.03 drivers: are they compatible with DirectX 8.1b?

Actually, what IS the difference between DX8.1 and DX8.1b?
 

Ion

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Feb 18, 2003
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Just a note, if you looking at ti4200. Look for the drivers that are produced while the GF4 series was mainstream. Reason been that while GF4 was the latest generation card, nvidia will obviously try to crank out as much speed as possible while maintain high stability in order to please those who bought them.

Asus A7N8X Deluxe, Xp 2500+(3200+), 512MB RAM, Radeon 9500Pro
 
First the GF4 series won't give you as good image quality as the FX series (but price may be a factor there), let alone the R9XXX series. But it's an OK gamer. Not quiet though by any stretch. It can be seen as loud or louder than an R9500/9700 depending on the OEM-partner's choice of cooling solution. The R9600 is quieter still, but usually a little higher pitched which annoys some people, depends alot on the other fans, and sources of noise inside your rig.

Like Cleeve said, the Ultimate editions are very quiet (use Zalman heatpipe), but you can add that to a GF4 card if you are adventurous, but I wouldn't recommend it as being the right solution IMO. You can also get a passively cooled R9600, which while not being as powerfull as a GF4ti (except in very modern games with the features turned on [but you've live without features for some time, so no woop there I guess]), nor will it be that close to it's brothers R9600Pro/XT. The R9600non-pro with passive heatsink would also be much cheaper than an ultimate edition. Unfortunately the only Passive solutions I have seen for the FX line are the FX5200 and the FX5600<b>SE</b>, which aren't much better than what you currently have.

As for the drivers, the 44.03 work fine with DX9, you just won't get DX9 features because the card doesn't have it, not because the drivers don't work with it. BTW, the GF4 doesn't support DX8.1 features either (like PS1.4 as an example), it's only DX8 compliant, but that shouldn't keep you from installing DX9.Xx, it just won't take advantage of those features in games.

As for the 'stickiness' of nV drivers, they CAN cause problems for nV to nV switches, just like the Catalysts can. If you look at the literature for Detonator R.I.P. and Detonator Destroyer they mention the fact that old drivers cause havoc even for nV products. Try it without removing them if you feel comfortable, but it is a crap shoot. Might work without a hitch, or may cause problems. The success ration may be 70/30 or 90/10, but if you are one of the people with a problem be ready with the tools to do it. Usually I say, better safe than sorry until you are comfortable with you setup, and when doing anything new I tend to make sure EVERYTHING is just so, so as to cut down on the potential issues.

That's just my 2 frames worth.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: