5900 Ultra or 9800 Pro.....best 4 3D animation

mojo77uk · Jan 30, 2004

My budget is around £150-170.....(well not really but that seems to be the going rate for really decent graphics cards.)
I've now established that 5900 Ultra is best out of the GeForce range at this price.
I have also found that the Radeon 9800 pro is the the best Radeon out there for similar money.

I'm stuck about which one to get. People on this forum have been very helpful so far,.... but I can't choose between these 2 cards!!
I've looked at the specifications and it seems that the GeForce is WAY better in every way than the Radeon......so why do people choose the Radeon 9800 pro over the 5900 Ultra?

............and it seems that there r different kinds of 9800 pro's with varying chipsets. What's that all about??

lik · Jan 30, 2004

The Radeon 9800 Pro is in this moment the best choice. In today's games is superior and when you push it to the limits with FSAA and Aniso Filtering it just kills the geforce. And my expectation is that it will be much better in the upcuming games. I've bought a 9800 Pro and I' trully satisfied with it.

ChipDeath · Jan 30, 2004

I've not seen a 5900 Ultra for less than 250 quid or so - where are you seeing that sort of price? I can see a few non 'ultra' variations for under 200, but you don't want one of those.

I can see a 'Powercolor' 128Mb 9800 Pro for just under £180. seems suspiciously cheap compared to all the others, so it might use slower RAM or something.

Put simply, 9800Pro cards are better than 5900Ultras, and are generally a little cheaper too, but the choice of 9800Pros is limited at that price point to budget models, and 5900Ultras are virtually impossible to find at that price point.

the majority of 9600XT cards sit about there, price-wise though, and they're very good for the money.

try looking at <A HREF="http://www20.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031229/vga-charts-03.html" target="_new">Toms VGA Charts</A> for some ideas as to relative performance.

---
Those of you who think you know everything are annoying to those of us who do.

mojo77uk · Jan 30, 2004

I found the Gainward FX GeForce 5900 Ultra 256MB for £175 on:
www.ebuyer.co.uk and www.microdirect.co.uk
which was the BEST buys I could find and seem V good value.

I found the Radeon 9800 Pro=£180-190
only on www.ebay.co.uk

If anyone can suggest any cheaper places to buy please email me!!!

So, what to choose and why......the GF 5900 Ultra OR the Radeon 9800 Pro.....both are the same price?

(I don't do much gaming, I mainly use graphics and 3D modelling programs)

Mind_Rebuilding · Jan 30, 2004

Is nVidia better in OpenGL?

cleeve · Jan 30, 2004

What do you mean by "animation"?

If you mean the type of animation you see in games, then the 9800 PRO is better. And if you think the FX specs are dominationg, you aren't reading the specs that count.

The 5900 is a better performer in professional CAD/modelling/animation packages like 3dsMAX, mostly because their OpenGL drivers are superior IMHO, and because they work with the software vendors closely.

________________
Radeon 9500 PRO (hardmodded 9500, o/c 322/322)
AthlonXP 2600+ (o/c 2400+ w/143Mhz fsb)
3dMark03: 4,055

mojo77uk · Jan 30, 2004

Sorry. I meant to say I do CAD/modelling/animation using Maya.........

But in what way r the specs for 9800 Pro superior to 5900Ultra?
I've compared them by looking at the Memory clocking, Chip clocking and pipes(8x1) and bus width (256bit).
In everyway the 5900Ultra is superior or the same as the 9800 Pro.
Unless you can tell me otherwise.......

Mind_Rebuilding · Jan 30, 2004

ATi GPUs are much more efficient than nVidia's.

cleeve · Jan 30, 2004

It's not chip and GPU clocks, it's what the cards do with those cycles. It's in the architecture.

Think of it this way: If I run a Celeron at 2ghz, it'll get it's ass kicked by an Athlon running at 1.5 Ghz. This is because of the differences in architecture.

The 9800 has more true pixel pipelines (8 vs the FX's 4), more shaders (4 powerful dedicated shader units vs the FX's inferior FP array), and superior antialiassing technology (multisampling vs. ordered grid).

This is why the 9800 is better gaming hardware, ESPECIALLY when it comes to advanced DX9 tiles that use shaders heavily (i.e. Half Life 2).

________________
Radeon 9500 PRO (hardmodded 9500, o/c 322/322)
AthlonXP 2600+ (o/c 2400+ w/143Mhz fsb)
3dMark03: 4,055

addiarmadar · Jan 30, 2004

R9800pro will give you much better detail and filtering performance than the 5900ultra and higher

Barton 2500+ @ 2200mhz (10x220 vcore @ 1.8)
Asus A7N8X Dlx 440 FSB
1gb Geil GD pc3500 Dual Channel (2-3-3-6)
Segata 80gb SATA 8.5ms seek
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro(420/720)

mojo77uk · Jan 30, 2004

I haven't bought a CPU yet, but it probably be a (pentium 4 prescott, 3.2GHz, 800MHz, 1GB L2 Cache)

I've heard that there are problems with the drivers on the 9800 Pro, so I may stick with the 5900Ultra as I've heard that they are more reliable with CAD based programs.

cleeve · Jan 30, 2004

You heard wrong about the drivers. The Catalysts are just fine.

But Nvidias are better in OpenGL, that's all.

________________
Radeon 9500 PRO (hardmodded 9500, o/c 322/322)
AthlonXP 2600+ (o/c 2400+ w/143Mhz fsb)
3dMark03: 4,055

TheGreatGrapeApe · Jan 30, 2004

I'll share with you what I can.

OpenGL support is getting close to parity but one major hole is support for Linux w/ the AMD64, right now only nV offers full Linux Support.

Performance in Maya is actually a complex question. Maya 4.X seems to do much better on the ATIs, but Maya 5 does better on the Quadros.

In <A HREF="http://www.3dchips.net/content/review.php?id=63" target="_new">This Review</A> you can see the difference between 4.5 and 5, and they have added an R9700 and GF4 in for good measure. (BTW it is a german site with their trnslation, so don't expect florid grammatical stylin')

If I were you though I'd also look into a SoftQuadro or SoftGL mod. Reverseable, and now fairly easy.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

cleeve · Jan 30, 2004

Damn, that's a good review Ape. Time for me to get current.

________________
Radeon 9500 PRO (hardmodded 9500, o/c 322/322)
AthlonXP 2600+ (o/c 2400+ w/143Mhz fsb)
3dMark03: 4,055

mojo77uk · Jan 31, 2004

Hi Ape!!

I read The Review which was very informative. It seems like GeForce is better at rendering 3D images than ATI cards.
It's a bit complicated 'cos I have Maya 4, Autodesk Inventor 7 and I also use Minicad.
I'll be using it with Windows XP Pro. and an Intel CPU (3.0GHz).

I have a few questions.......

What does Open GL, SoftQuadro or SoftGL mod mean exactly??

Also, I didn't really understand all the code names used to describe the graphics cards in the review. Is FireGLX2 a R9800Pro and Quadro FX some kind of GeForce card...?

Thanks all for your help by the way!

TheGreatGrapeApe · Jan 31, 2004

OK, first OpenGL is a shader language, like DirectX.

SoftQuadro and SoftGL are driver mods that make nV gaming cards act like Quadros (their professional workstation line) and ATI cards act like FireGLs (Ati's workstation line). What that means is you can buy an R9700Pro and get it to perform close to the performance of the FireGL X1 (they use the same core), The Quadro FX2000 is based on the FX5900Ultra. The main thing is that those drivers which are optimized for OpenGL greatly improve these cards performance.

The problem is for Maya 4 the ATIs do better, but for Autodesk's Inventor, the Quadro pulls ahead. So really you will likely see performance gains/loses for either one.
Really they are VERY close now.

My personal opinion, if you do any gaming go with the ATI R9800pro or non-pro, if it's all workstation stuff go with the FX5900non-ultra (cause the Ultra usually costs such a high premium. Likely the difference is at least a stick of great quality DDR433 256mb (if not 512mb) which may show more improvement in the long run.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

fragglefart · Jan 31, 2004

Listen to Ape, he knows what he is talking about.
Ok, here in the UK;
if you want to plat game, go Ati. Period.
if you want to run Pro 3D apps, go Nvidia. Period.

However, DO spend the little extra and purchase a GOOD Nvidia 5900Ultra. The extra stability makes for a BIG increase in 3D programmes such as Maya. Personally, i use 3DSMax ;P

Not only is it easily possible to flash an Ultra into a 5950 (giving a 20% performance increase for free), you can also modify the card using a program into a (Grape got this bit wrong! BAD GRAPE!) QuaddroFX3000. Now beleive me, once you have used that performance with Max/Maya/anything bar Half Life 2........ you should be very happy indeed.

Ati have sorted out their drivers, but they are still lacking in the 3D "oomph" department.
It all depends how mauch you model, and how much you game.

............................................
Render times? You'll find me down the pub...

TheGreatGrapeApe · Jan 31, 2004

Many Pardons if I have Offended, Sahib!

Well I was thinking about his budget. The FX5950 would be better but it would be well above that in cost I would think. Also depending on the setup the FX5900 could be OC'd and the (usually) large difference in price could be better used on memory (Which in my experience has greatly improved systems). To me it was a question of best allocation of resources. But seeing as it's your backyard, you'd likely know better what he can find for his price range and whether that money is being well spent.
If he can afford it, of course FX5950U>FX5900U>FX5900. I'll yield to someone with more local knowledge.

Such a crazy system, pence and half-pennies, what's a full penny and how many make a pence or a pound?

) :tongue: .
Man when I go to Bermuda for some of my Xmases I get all F'd up trying to covert C$->US$->£ and back and forth. All I know is Cigars and Scotch are cheaper there! Thank you no Sin Taxes!

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

fragglefart · Jan 31, 2004

"All I know is Cigars and Scotch are cheaper there!"
And that, Daniel-San, is the meaning of life...

............................................
Render times? You'll find me down the pub...

mojo77uk · Jan 31, 2004

How like you computer guys to think little mojo is a 'he' and not a 'she'!!!!

Anyway,.. all I wanted to say is that it has been V interesting listening to you guys (I'm assuming) chat....but at they end of the day, I have to stick with what I can afford.....which ain't much really........but hey, my idea of shopping is going out and buying something nice and expensive for my PC....may seem sad to some.

Best final UK prices on the web that I can find are:
(PowerColor)ATI Radeon 9800 Pro = £180 / $306
Gainward FX GeForce 5900 Ultra 128MB = £175 / $298

If anyone can improve on my prices then please share!!!

TheGreatGrapeApe · Feb 1, 2004

Default when talking about anyone is HE when it's unknown, how like a woman to think it matters. :tongue: BTW I also left the Seat up! :evil:

With your prices, I would suggest, like I said above. If you are playng a fair amount of games and you are focusing on MAYA 4.X, then the Radeon would be a good choice. For primarily animation, and if you use alot more programs that Maya 4.X, then go with the GF FX5900Ultra.

Sorry can't help you with the prices. I know there are some here from the UK who shop online, they would be the best to help.

As always, that's just my view of it from across the pond.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

5900 Ultra or 9800 Pro.....best 4 3D animation

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