mid end card suggestion for an old Duron

[dhlucke]

I posted this briefly in the other section but thought I'd put in in here for more responses.

Basically I have an old system at my parent's place that I built years back and now need to upgrade.

Duron 800 (might put my old Tbird 1000 in it)
128MB generic PC133 (will upgrade this to 384MB most likely since it's blue screening, memory dump, if I do too much at once on XP)
Asus A7V
Voodoo 3 3000

So what I want to do is be able to play over the network against my brother when I visit. The V3 is a bit on the old side and there are no good drivers for XP for it.

So what would you do? I don't want to make my parents pay too much so I think a R9800P would be overkill (especially on this system), but I'll go nuts with something to weak since my brother has a R9500P on his rig.

It looks like a R9600 is $100, Ti4200 is $125, and a R9600P is $150 nowadays.

Suggestions? I'll probably play some BF1942 and UT on it. I'd imagine playing Farcry on it as well but I'm not sure how much this thing will be able to pull off.

<font color=red>_________________________________________</font color=red>
<b><A HREF="http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?dhlucke" target="_new">Wiggidy Wack!!!!</A></b>

 

[cleeve]

Any of those three cards would be great. You should be able to find a 64 meg Ti4200 for much cheaper online... like the $75 range.

UT2003/4 will run great on it, but don't count on the next gen games working OK with that CPU, like Far Cry, Doom3, etc.
Even your Tbird 1 Ghz isn't going to help the rig run those decently, regardless of video card.

________________
<b>Radeon <font color=red>9500 PRO</b></font color=red> <i>(hardmodded 9500, o/c 322/322)</i>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>2600+</b></font color=red> <i>(o/c 2400+ w/143Mhz fsb)</i>
<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>4,055</b></font color=red>

 

[dhlucke]

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of.

I think a 9600 would do then. How does a 9600 stack up to a ti4200? The ti series never really impressed me.

<font color=red>_________________________________________</font color=red>
<b><A HREF="http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?dhlucke" target="_new">Wiggidy Wack!!!!</A></b>

 

[cleeve]

I'm surprised the Ti series never impressed you. It held the performance crown for some time.

How do they compare? Well, in directX 7 and OpenGL titles the Ti4200 is likely a bit quicker than the 9600 non-pro.

The 9600 has powerful Pixel shaders however, so in advanced DirectX 8/9 titles it will likely pull ahead of the Ti4200. Also, antialiassing and anistropic filtering will deliver less of a framerate hit.

But the difference won't be very big except in certain titles. Still, the 9600 gpu is a monster overclocker, I would recommend it.

________________
<b>Radeon <font color=red>9500 PRO</b></font color=red> <i>(hardmodded 9500, o/c 322/322)</i>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>2600+</b></font color=red> <i>(o/c 2400+ w/143Mhz fsb)</i>
<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>4,055</b></font color=red>

 

[pauldh]

9600 non pro is slower than a Ti4200 in DX 8, but is a DX 9 class card, so more Eye candy/better performance in DX 9 games. Neither will be great for the future games, but either should get you by ok on a spare system. Any of the cards you mentioned should do fine, but the Ti4200 should be cheaper than the 9600 non-pro.

The Duron 800/ KT133/ SDRAM setup is definately holding you back. You need more than 128MB ram to game in Win XP too. Your TBird 1.0GHZ will help if paired with another 128MB of ram or more, but honestly barely adequate for newer games. I bet even BF1942 is going to poke on it, especially if it has integrated audio. But then again, it's not your personal everyday gaming machine.

Definately don't stick a 9800 pro on that setup. Have you considered the cost of a bigger upgrade. Inexpensive NForce 2 (Biostar), XP2200+ or faster, 256-512MB DDR, and a R9600 pro. Where do you live? This can be done for about $300-$320 in the US. Probably not worth it, but the performance difference would be huge.

On the flip side, a $55 Radeon 8500le would be the best you can do, for the least cash. Not always easy to find at that price though.



ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt

 

[pauldh]

Have you looked at the VGA Charts II. Shows you what all the last genergation cards could do on a TBird 1.0GHZ. Note, that in many tests, anything over a R8500le or Ti4200 is overkill on that CPU/mobo/RAM. Change those 3, it's obviously a whole differnt game.

Keep in mind, he is talking about those cards and their performance on a SLOW MACHINE. And the review is over 1 year old. That's why for gaming, it would be great to ditch the kT133/SDRAM and go to NF2/DDR

<A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030120/index.html" target="_new">http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030120/index.html</A>

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt

 

[cleeve]

Ack. I knew I was going to catch slack for that right after I submitted it.

To qualify, older DX8 titles that don't use shaders heavily will work faster on the Ti4200. But newer DX8 titles that use shaders more, like Max Payne 2, will work faster on the 9600.

This is from memory mind you, so I'm looking up proof as we speak...

________________
<b>Radeon <font color=red>9500 PRO</b></font color=red> <i>(hardmodded 9500, o/c 322/322)</i>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>2600+</b></font color=red> <i>(o/c 2400+ w/143Mhz fsb)</i>
<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>4,055</b></font color=red>

 

[pauldh]

Actually, I hadn't read your post while typing mine. Saw it after. No slack form me.

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt

 

[dhlucke]

I'm not going to do a major upgrade to this thing since it's used mainly by my father for basic office stuff. I'm just taking advantage of the fact that he NEEDS more memory and that V3 is a pain in the rear at this point. I just upgraded them to a wireless G network, DSL, and XP Pro SP1 so the memory is needed and the video is preferable. It sucks to have to upgrade PC133 memory for more than new DDR, but $50 for another 256MB should do the trick.

I could always drag my own box down to my parents place if I needed something better, but for now I'm just trying to figure out what would be the best considering that I really have to upgrade this thing or XP and my father will throw a fit.

It'll be fun to play games and although I don't expect a miracle I would like to play against my brother without cringing at the fact that his rig down the hall looks a billion times better than the one I'm on.

As far as the ti series, I bought a number of 4200's and a 4600 and they didn't do much for me since I personally could barely tell the difference between my overclocked gainward GF2 Pro and those cards. I returned all of them. The biggest difference was the noise. It really wasn't until the Radeons that I was impressed, at least not since the GF2 came out. It seemed to me that the only place the ti series really looked good was in the 3dmark demos and some of the dx8 textures like the floors in SOF II.

I could always wait for video and just give them my old GF2, but that's no fun either.

<font color=red>_________________________________________</font color=red>
<b><A HREF="http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?dhlucke" target="_new">Wiggidy Wack!!!!</A></b>

 

[pauldh]

Quite honestly, with 9600's coming down into Ti4200 price range, I will probably be buying only 9600's for value systems now. The Ti4200 has long been my choice, or R8500le to save more money. But I am liking the looks of the R9600 more and more.

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt

 

[cleeve]

Well dhlucke, if you weren't impressed with the Ti series, I don't think you'll be impressed with the 9600. Especially a non-pro...

Sounds like you demand the kind of performance only a 9700 or better can deliver.

________________
<b>Radeon <font color=red>9500 PRO</b></font color=red> <i>(hardmodded 9500, o/c 322/322)</i>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>2600+</b></font color=red> <i>(o/c 2400+ w/143Mhz fsb)</i>
<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>4,055</b></font color=red>

 

[dhlucke]

Damn it! I'm spoiled aren't I?

It's just that the IQ on a Radeon 9500P/9800P is a lot better than the ti series. I would hope the same would be true for a 9600.

<font color=red>_________________________________________</font color=red>
<b><A HREF="http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?dhlucke" target="_new">Wiggidy Wack!!!!</A></b>

 

[cleeve]

Yep, the 9600's image quality is identical to 9500/9700/9800's image quality.

________________
<b>Radeon <font color=red>9500 PRO</b></font color=red> <i>(hardmodded 9500, o/c 322/322)</i>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>2600+</b></font color=red> <i>(o/c 2400+ w/143Mhz fsb)</i>
<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>4,055</b></font color=red>

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Just backing you up on the fact that the newer titles do benifit alot from a better graphics card even on an older system (not that you'll get anything stellar out of an old Duron).

When I get home I'll post more. Just finishing up at work, then off.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK

 

[dhlucke]

I ordered a Retail 9600 and am done with it.

I still can't believe that they charge $50 for 256MB of PC133. Crappy PC133 at that. It was closer to $80 for crucial

<font color=red>_________________________________________</font color=red>
<b><A HREF="http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?dhlucke" target="_new">Wiggidy Wack!!!!</A></b>

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Yeah, I was looking for some PC133/100 (either really) for a friend last week, and I found some PC133 from an PC surplus store 128mb for $20, and guess what went on sale at the Coast-to-Coast retailer in Canada this week;

<A HREF="http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10006468&catid=10486&logon=&langid=EN&dept=18&WLBS=fsweb13" target="_new">http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10006468&catid=10486&logon=&langid=EN&dept=18&WLBS=fsweb13</A>

That's about $7.50 US.

Annoying thing, that PC133 I bought doesn't even work in my friend's rig (gotta scrounge some PC100 until I can sell him my computer [I think he would best make use of this rig]), so it'll go into the old PC a a co-worker has.

Hope the R9600 works out for you.

During my shopping expidition I saw an R9600Pro (PowerCrapper, but looked at the board and it is BGA so it's not an EZ lite, etc) for sale in town for $169 CDN. I also saw a Sapphire R9600non-pro (non SE) for $129CDN. Now that's ridiculously cheap IMO.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK