Operators dilemma

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

I am a small route operator who is getting smaller every month. One of my
locations decided to purchase their own games. I showed up there to check
on the changer and notice four different games there. They never called to
discuss the issue. They plan on buying more and said that they would let me
operate the pinball's, because they can't service them. So how should I
handle this.

1. be polite and remove my equipment as they buy more.
2. Just move everything out (2 drivers, Pedestal gun game, 2 pinball's,
changer, 3 other games.) I am not done paying for this stuff.
3. Offer to service their equipment for 25% of gross.
4. Offer to sell them my equipment at high prices
5 Offer to sell at market value.
6 Service his stuff on a hourly rate.
7 Try and fight it. Leave my games there and let us both operate. I will
put in nicer games.
7. Do something I will regret. I am not sure what that is? Any
suggestions?

I don't have a contract. He let someone else in there who runs the bulk
vending stuff, which I would rather have. We have always had a good
relationship. I return his Service calls and respond the same or next day.
I rotate as needed. I net about $400-$600 a month. He plans on buying more
games and servicing them himself.

What do you think? How should I handle this?
Thanks
Russ

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

Russ wrote:
> I am a small route operator who is getting smaller every month. One
of my
> locations decided to purchase their own games. I showed up there to
check
> on the changer and notice four different games there. They never
called to
> discuss the issue. They plan on buying more and said that they would
let me
> operate the pinball's, because they can't service them. So how
should I
> handle this.
>
> 1. be polite and remove my equipment as they buy more.
> 2. Just move everything out (2 drivers, Pedestal gun game, 2
pinball's,
> changer, 3 other games.) I am not done paying for this stuff.
> 3. Offer to service their equipment for 25% of gross.
> 4. Offer to sell them my equipment at high prices
> 5 Offer to sell at market value.
> 6 Service his stuff on a hourly rate.
> 7 Try and fight it. Leave my games there and let us both operate. I
will
> put in nicer games.
> 7. Do something I will regret. I am not sure what that is? Any
> suggestions?
>
> I don't have a contract. He let someone else in there who runs the
bulk
> vending stuff, which I would rather have. We have always had a good
> relationship. I return his Service calls and respond the same or next
day.
> I rotate as needed. I net about $400-$600 a month. He plans on
buying more
> games and servicing them himself.
>
> What do you think? How should I handle this?

I was thinking of several things, but once you said you have no
contract with him, I say #1 is your best option.

But there is no problem with letting him know what your service rates
are just in case those games of his become too much to handle, and at
the same time putting in games that will do better than the games he
gets,if that is possible.

Offering to sell him your games at market value is I believe your last
option.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

I'm not an op, but it seems to me that you should have started with a
contract right from the start.

That said.... the big question is how much do you need the money from the
location? Ultimatly this and this alone will decide what you are able to
do.

Let's face it... 2 drivers, a gun game, 2 pinballs and 3 other games
probably ran you quite a bit... at only $400-600 per month you're probably
not bringing in a lot from that location after your done paying for them (I
never really understood how route operators could possibly make money in
todays climate).

Do you owe less then market value on the machines (if you sold them off one
e-bay would you gain or lose?)

Personally, the location guy is an abolute ass.. he KNOWS you are doing this
as your business and he's directly competing with you.

Me personally... I would pull all my machines out today... let him have his
fun and find out how hard it really is to make any $$$

"Russ" <StateStreetAmusements@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:UvAYd.1160$GI6.582@trnddc05...
>I am a small route operator who is getting smaller every month. One of my
>locations decided to purchase their own games. I showed up there to check
>on the changer and notice four different games there. They never called to
>discuss the issue. They plan on buying more and said that they would let
>me operate the pinball's, because they can't service them. So how should I
>handle this.
>
> 1. be polite and remove my equipment as they buy more.
> 2. Just move everything out (2 drivers, Pedestal gun game, 2
> pinball's, changer, 3 other games.) I am not done paying for this stuff.
> 3. Offer to service their equipment for 25% of gross.
> 4. Offer to sell them my equipment at high prices
> 5 Offer to sell at market value.
> 6 Service his stuff on a hourly rate.
> 7 Try and fight it. Leave my games there and let us both operate. I will
> put in nicer games.
> 7. Do something I will regret. I am not sure what that is? Any
> suggestions?
>
> I don't have a contract. He let someone else in there who runs the bulk
> vending stuff, which I would rather have. We have always had a good
> relationship. I return his Service calls and respond the same or next day.
> I rotate as needed. I net about $400-$600 a month. He plans on buying
> more games and servicing them himself.
>
> What do you think? How should I handle this?
> Thanks
> Russ
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

The business owner should have at least had the dignity to contact the
game operator and say, "look we just don't seem to be doing as well as
we could be money-wise here, I'd like to get a couple of my own games".

Of course the long time operator I used to work for almost never used
location contracts. Some of the locations pulled the same stunts like
having us bring in a butload of games then two months later we go to
collect on the weekly collection day and find half our machines shoved
off in some corner somewhere and some 'other' games taking their place.
We'd call our boss who would then phone the location owner and ask, WTF
is going on? Usually within 30 minutes our great big truck would be at
the location pulling ALL our equipment out. Leave 'em high 'n dry is
what the boss would say. "They want to operate games, well let 'em
operate games with all the problems associated with operating". Then
the boss would call the city license dept and turn them in for not
having licensed machines!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

"Steve Muccione" <home*DOT*muccione@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:Q3CYd.1661$FB6.1197@trndny09...

> Personally, the location guy is an abolute ass.. he KNOWS you are doing
> this as your business and he's directly competing with you.
>
> Me personally... I would pull all my machines out today... let him have
> his fun and find out how hard it really is to make any $$$

No the location owner is not an ass - he is a businessman who apparently
decided that for the $400-$600 a month he is giving the operator he is
willing to take a chance that service and equipment costs will be less than
what the operator is profiting by the location, and there is no reason not
to make the profit himself.
Absent a contract to the contrary he has no reason not to compete with a
vendor; the long term results of his actions may or may not be to the
locations benefit, but he is certainlty not an ass for trying to find out.
He may have other reasons for wanting his own equipment - games are a great
way to sanitize money earned from more dubious operations and make it
taxable and thus spendable; the flip side of course is that games are also a
great way to generate unaccountable income.
I have been in this situation as an operator myself more than once. I
operate entirely without contracts, and have reacted differently each time
to this. The one time the location brought in games and wanted me to leave
my pins, I said that would be fine, but since I was losing the game revenue
I would have to charge a flat $50 a month over and above my cut on the pins;
that worked out well and lasted 3 years till the location closed.
I have also decided to pull my games totally when the location put a few of
theirs in; that had mixed results. One spot sold me their 2 games the day I
showed up to pull my 6; the other just shrugged and told me to do what I had
to do.
The key is that this is all busines - and as they say "just business". As
soon as it gets into a pissing match, you lose. As soon as the location
sees that you are trying to do anything that in the owner's opinion looks
like you trying to run any part of his business, you lose. As soon as the
location thinks that you feel you are going to "show him a thing or two",
you lose.
Talk to the guy rationally, and more importantly than asking the advice of
others, look to your numbers to make your decision for you.
Best of luck with the situation.

Art



>
> "Russ" <StateStreetAmusements@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:UvAYd.1160$GI6.582@trnddc05...
>>I am a small route operator who is getting smaller every month. One of my
>>locations decided to purchase their own games. I showed up there to check
>>on the changer and notice four different games there. They never called
>>to discuss the issue. They plan on buying more and said that they would
>>let me operate the pinball's, because they can't service them. So how
>>should I handle this.
>>
>> 1. be polite and remove my equipment as they buy more.
>> 2. Just move everything out (2 drivers, Pedestal gun game, 2
>> pinball's, changer, 3 other games.) I am not done paying for this stuff.
>> 3. Offer to service their equipment for 25% of gross.
>> 4. Offer to sell them my equipment at high prices
>> 5 Offer to sell at market value.
>> 6 Service his stuff on a hourly rate.
>> 7 Try and fight it. Leave my games there and let us both operate. I
>> will put in nicer games.
>> 7. Do something I will regret. I am not sure what that is? Any
>> suggestions?
>>
>> I don't have a contract. He let someone else in there who runs the bulk
>> vending stuff, which I would rather have. We have always had a good
>> relationship. I return his Service calls and respond the same or next
>> day. I rotate as needed. I net about $400-$600 a month. He plans on
>> buying more games and servicing them himself.
>>
>> What do you think? How should I handle this?
>> Thanks
>> Russ
>>
>>
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

> No the location owner is not an ass

Do you believe the location owner was morally and ethically correct in
bringing in games?

"Art Mallet - Artfromny - formerly A218@aol.com" <artgames@nycap.rr.com>
wrote in message newsrCYd.130725$nC5.127107@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>
>
> "Steve Muccione" <home*DOT*muccione@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:Q3CYd.1661$FB6.1197@trndny09...
>
>> Personally, the location guy is an abolute ass.. he KNOWS you are doing
>> this as your business and he's directly competing with you.
>>
>> Me personally... I would pull all my machines out today... let him have
>> his fun and find out how hard it really is to make any $$$
>
> No the location owner is not an ass - he is a businessman who apparently
> decided that for the $400-$600 a month he is giving the operator he is
> willing to take a chance that service and equipment costs will be less
> than what the operator is profiting by the location, and there is no
> reason not to make the profit himself.
> Absent a contract to the contrary he has no reason not to compete with a
> vendor; the long term results of his actions may or may not be to the
> locations benefit, but he is certainlty not an ass for trying to find out.
> He may have other reasons for wanting his own equipment - games are a
> great way to sanitize money earned from more dubious operations and make
> it taxable and thus spendable; the flip side of course is that games are
> also a great way to generate unaccountable income.
> I have been in this situation as an operator myself more than once. I
> operate entirely without contracts, and have reacted differently each time
> to this. The one time the location brought in games and wanted me to
> leave my pins, I said that would be fine, but since I was losing the game
> revenue I would have to charge a flat $50 a month over and above my cut on
> the pins; that worked out well and lasted 3 years till the location
> closed.
> I have also decided to pull my games totally when the location put a few
> of theirs in; that had mixed results. One spot sold me their 2 games the
> day I showed up to pull my 6; the other just shrugged and told me to do
> what I had to do.
> The key is that this is all busines - and as they say "just business". As
> soon as it gets into a pissing match, you lose. As soon as the location
> sees that you are trying to do anything that in the owner's opinion looks
> like you trying to run any part of his business, you lose. As soon as the
> location thinks that you feel you are going to "show him a thing or two",
> you lose.
> Talk to the guy rationally, and more importantly than asking the advice of
> others, look to your numbers to make your decision for you.
> Best of luck with the situation.
>
> Art
>
>
>
>>
>> "Russ" <StateStreetAmusements@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:UvAYd.1160$GI6.582@trnddc05...
>>>I am a small route operator who is getting smaller every month. One of
>>>my locations decided to purchase their own games. I showed up there to
>>>check on the changer and notice four different games there. They never
>>>called to discuss the issue. They plan on buying more and said that they
>>>would let me operate the pinball's, because they can't service them. So
>>>how should I handle this.
>>>
>>> 1. be polite and remove my equipment as they buy more.
>>> 2. Just move everything out (2 drivers, Pedestal gun game, 2
>>> pinball's, changer, 3 other games.) I am not done paying for this
>>> stuff.
>>> 3. Offer to service their equipment for 25% of gross.
>>> 4. Offer to sell them my equipment at high prices
>>> 5 Offer to sell at market value.
>>> 6 Service his stuff on a hourly rate.
>>> 7 Try and fight it. Leave my games there and let us both operate. I
>>> will put in nicer games.
>>> 7. Do something I will regret. I am not sure what that is? Any
>>> suggestions?
>>>
>>> I don't have a contract. He let someone else in there who runs the bulk
>>> vending stuff, which I would rather have. We have always had a good
>>> relationship. I return his Service calls and respond the same or next
>>> day. I rotate as needed. I net about $400-$600 a month. He plans on
>>> buying more games and servicing them himself.
>>>
>>> What do you think? How should I handle this?
>>> Thanks
>>> Russ
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

"Steve Muccione" <home*DOT*muccione@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:rFDYd.622$jt6.423@trndny07...
>> No the location owner is not an ass
>
> Do you believe the location owner was morally and ethically correct in
> bringing in games?
>

I for one, absolutely do. This is a business relationship. He is doing
what he believes is in the best interest of his business. If he was a
public company, he would be obligated to act in the best interest of his
shareholders. It is not only moral and ethical, but to do anything else
would be immoral and unethical to his business (and/or partners).

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

Change your games and changer over to tokens that way they have to bug
someone for quarters everytime they want to play one of his games. If he
wants to have his own games they he can deal with them. I understand where
he is coming from and where you are coming from but I wouldn't touch his
games and let him buy his own changer. Worst case scenario is you lose the
location which is probably bound to happen sooner or later if he brings in
more stuff. Then when he needs you to fix his stuff charge an obscene
amount of $$.. after all this is your business as well.

Scott

www.agelessarcade.com




"Steve Muccione" <home*DOT*muccione@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:rFDYd.622$jt6.423@trndny07...
> > No the location owner is not an ass
>
> Do you believe the location owner was morally and ethically correct in
> bringing in games?
>
> "Art Mallet - Artfromny - formerly A218@aol.com" <artgames@nycap.rr.com>
> wrote in message newsrCYd.130725$nC5.127107@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> >
> >
> > "Steve Muccione" <home*DOT*muccione@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > news:Q3CYd.1661$FB6.1197@trndny09...
> >
> >> Personally, the location guy is an abolute ass.. he KNOWS you are doing
> >> this as your business and he's directly competing with you.
> >>
> >> Me personally... I would pull all my machines out today... let him have
> >> his fun and find out how hard it really is to make any $$$
> >
> > No the location owner is not an ass - he is a businessman who apparently
> > decided that for the $400-$600 a month he is giving the operator he is
> > willing to take a chance that service and equipment costs will be less
> > than what the operator is profiting by the location, and there is no
> > reason not to make the profit himself.
> > Absent a contract to the contrary he has no reason not to compete with a
> > vendor; the long term results of his actions may or may not be to the
> > locations benefit, but he is certainlty not an ass for trying to find
out.
> > He may have other reasons for wanting his own equipment - games are a
> > great way to sanitize money earned from more dubious operations and make
> > it taxable and thus spendable; the flip side of course is that games are
> > also a great way to generate unaccountable income.
> > I have been in this situation as an operator myself more than once. I
> > operate entirely without contracts, and have reacted differently each
time
> > to this. The one time the location brought in games and wanted me to
> > leave my pins, I said that would be fine, but since I was losing the
game
> > revenue I would have to charge a flat $50 a month over and above my cut
on
> > the pins; that worked out well and lasted 3 years till the location
> > closed.
> > I have also decided to pull my games totally when the location put a few
> > of theirs in; that had mixed results. One spot sold me their 2 games
the
> > day I showed up to pull my 6; the other just shrugged and told me to do
> > what I had to do.
> > The key is that this is all busines - and as they say "just business".
As
> > soon as it gets into a pissing match, you lose. As soon as the location
> > sees that you are trying to do anything that in the owner's opinion
looks
> > like you trying to run any part of his business, you lose. As soon as
the
> > location thinks that you feel you are going to "show him a thing or
two",
> > you lose.
> > Talk to the guy rationally, and more importantly than asking the advice
of
> > others, look to your numbers to make your decision for you.
> > Best of luck with the situation.
> >
> > Art
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> "Russ" <StateStreetAmusements@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:UvAYd.1160$GI6.582@trnddc05...
> >>>I am a small route operator who is getting smaller every month. One of
> >>>my locations decided to purchase their own games. I showed up there to
> >>>check on the changer and notice four different games there. They never
> >>>called to discuss the issue. They plan on buying more and said that
they
> >>>would let me operate the pinball's, because they can't service them.
So
> >>>how should I handle this.
> >>>
> >>> 1. be polite and remove my equipment as they buy more.
> >>> 2. Just move everything out (2 drivers, Pedestal gun game, 2
> >>> pinball's, changer, 3 other games.) I am not done paying for this
> >>> stuff.
> >>> 3. Offer to service their equipment for 25% of gross.
> >>> 4. Offer to sell them my equipment at high prices
> >>> 5 Offer to sell at market value.
> >>> 6 Service his stuff on a hourly rate.
> >>> 7 Try and fight it. Leave my games there and let us both operate. I
> >>> will put in nicer games.
> >>> 7. Do something I will regret. I am not sure what that is? Any
> >>> suggestions?
> >>>
> >>> I don't have a contract. He let someone else in there who runs the
bulk
> >>> vending stuff, which I would rather have. We have always had a good
> >>> relationship. I return his Service calls and respond the same or next
> >>> day. I rotate as needed. I net about $400-$600 a month. He plans on
> >>> buying more games and servicing them himself.
> >>>
> >>> What do you think? How should I handle this?
> >>> Thanks
> >>> Russ
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

Naturally it pays to have a written industry standard location
contract. A contract doesn't stop the location from buying it's own
equipment or bringing in another operator, but it sure comes in handy
as a monetary remedy in court when the contract is breached by the
location. You could get treble damages from the location owner.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

"Steve Muccione" <home*DOT*muccione@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:rFDYd.622$jt6.423@trndny07...
>> No the location owner is not an ass
>
> Do you believe the location owner was morally and ethically correct in
> bringing in games?


Absolutely - his location, his business, his investment, his choice. As an
operator myself all I figure I am "morally and ethically" owed by a location
is a reasonable effort made to protect my property from theft and major
vandalism.

Art

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

Your argument was the same one made by Mortan Thiacol in discussing their
willingness to sign off on the space-shuttles booster (you remember.... the
cold flight that resulted in Challenger's main fuel tank detonating).

"Chuk" <chuk@ourcade.com> wrote in message
news:39gip6F6355tiU1@individual.net...
>
> "Steve Muccione" <home*DOT*muccione@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:rFDYd.622$jt6.423@trndny07...
>>> No the location owner is not an ass
>>
>> Do you believe the location owner was morally and ethically correct in
>> bringing in games?
>>
>
> I for one, absolutely do. This is a business relationship. He is doing
> what he believes is in the best interest of his business. If he was a
> public company, he would be obligated to act in the best interest of his
> shareholders. It is not only moral and ethical, but to do anything else
> would be immoral and unethical to his business (and/or partners).
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

I disagree (if you hadn't already guessed ).

Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should.

The location owner asked the op to bring in equipment. The op then
purchased the equipment at a great expense, installed the equipment and
maintained it. The location owner then proceeds to jeopardize the op's
ability to recoup the investment that he requested (since the location owner
purchased his own machines, he is obviously aware of the large costs
involved).

I'm sorry... just because doing something may be *best* for YOU doesn't mean
that it is ethically correct to do so.

Maybe it's just me and how I was brought up... maybe I'm being old
fashioned... but I have always felt that it is best to treat others with
respect even if it means that you don't do as well for yourself.

"Art Mallet - Artfromny - formerly A218@aol.com" <artgames@nycap.rr.com>
wrote in message news:imGYd.89730$H05.32066@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>
>
> "Steve Muccione" <home*DOT*muccione@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:rFDYd.622$jt6.423@trndny07...
>>> No the location owner is not an ass
>>
>> Do you believe the location owner was morally and ethically correct in
>> bringing in games?
>
>
> Absolutely - his location, his business, his investment, his choice. As
> an operator myself all I figure I am "morally and ethically" owed by a
> location is a reasonable effort made to protect my property from theft and
> major vandalism.
>
> Art
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

Thanks for all of the advice. I pulled the changer today. I made an excuse
that I need it and would replace it asap. There are about 30 gumball and
sticker type machines that are not mine and now that he has his own games he
can worry about making change. I think I will try and sell most of it off.
Keep a few pieces. I got this location from another operator and am still
paying him monthly. He never had a contract. I am not doing things without
contracts anymore.

Thanks to all

Russ
"Russ" <StateStreetAmusements@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:UvAYd.1160$GI6.582@trnddc05...
>I am a small route operator who is getting smaller every month. One of my
>locations decided to purchase their own games. I showed up there to check
>on the changer and notice four different games there. They never called to
>discuss the issue. They plan on buying more and said that they would let
>me operate the pinball's, because they can't service them. So how should I
>handle this.
>
> 1. be polite and remove my equipment as they buy more.
> 2. Just move everything out (2 drivers, Pedestal gun game, 2
> pinball's, changer, 3 other games.) I am not done paying for this stuff.
> 3. Offer to service their equipment for 25% of gross.
> 4. Offer to sell them my equipment at high prices
> 5 Offer to sell at market value.
> 6 Service his stuff on a hourly rate.
> 7 Try and fight it. Leave my games there and let us both operate. I will
> put in nicer games.
> 7. Do something I will regret. I am not sure what that is? Any
> suggestions?
>
> I don't have a contract. He let someone else in there who runs the bulk
> vending stuff, which I would rather have. We have always had a good
> relationship. I return his Service calls and respond the same or next day.
> I rotate as needed. I net about $400-$600 a month. He plans on buying
> more games and servicing them himself.
>
> What do you think? How should I handle this?
> Thanks
> Russ
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

While I think it would the right thing to do to let you know before
hand because you dont have a contract he has no reason to other then
its the right thing to do. Even with a contract it doesnt always pay to
sue someone. You may still not win and even if you do you may never
collect the money.

If you pull everything out you are garenteed not to make any more
money, you loose. If you arguee with him and get thrown out you loose.

As already stated most locations cant operate games because they cant
fix them and they dont have any other inventory to switch games around.
Keep your games in there. Make some money and keep other operators out.
When one of there games breaks down fix them for a fair market price.
Check the rates of the local distributor. Betson by me is 80 an hour
min 1 1/2 hours. Dont make it a main priority to get out there to fix
there games. Let them wait a few days. Nothing worse then haveing you
big money game go down on a Friday night and having down all weekend
long.

If the location is going to throw you out there is nothing you can
do about it. If you stay freindly and things dont work out with his
games you may not get invited back anyhow but if you do and they relize
why you where geting 50% then you come back but only with a contract.

I lost a location to another operator about a year ago. Nice
location hated to loose it. 9 mounth later a get a call back the
operator that promised him the world didnt deliver. Now I am back in
and look great, he relized that he may only get 50% from me instead of
60% from the other guy. 60% from nonworking games is let then 50% from
my working games.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

"Steve Muccione" <home*DOT*muccione@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:a9MYd.1204$jt6.105@trndny07...
>I disagree (if you hadn't already guessed ).
>
> Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should.
>
> The location owner asked the op to bring in equipment.

And, I can assume from the details given so far, never made a committment to
not put his own or other's games along side them.


The op then purchased the equipment at a great expense, installed the
equipment and
> maintained it.

Which he freely agreed to do, and did not bind the location to exclusive use
of his games.


The location owner then proceeds to jeopardize the op's ability to recoup
the investment that he requested
Yep, thats called free enterprise, and remember - the op at all times had a
choice to invest or not invest, take the location or not


> I'm sorry... just because doing something may be *best* for YOU doesn't
> mean that it is ethically correct to do so.

What particular ethic got breached here? And remember, I am on the
operating end of this, not the location, and I still dont see anything
wrong. Annoying, disappointing, angering, frustrating to the op - of
course; but that doesnt mean morally wrong.

Art




>
> Maybe it's just me and how I was brought up... maybe I'm being old
> fashioned... but I have always felt that it is best to treat others with
> respect even if it means that you don't do as well for yourself.
>
> "Art Mallet - Artfromny - formerly A218@aol.com" <artgames@nycap.rr.com>
> wrote in message news:imGYd.89730$H05.32066@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>>
>>
>> "Steve Muccione" <home*DOT*muccione@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:rFDYd.622$jt6.423@trndny07...
>>>> No the location owner is not an ass
>>>
>>> Do you believe the location owner was morally and ethically correct in
>>> bringing in games?
>>
>>
>> Absolutely - his location, his business, his investment, his choice. As
>> an operator myself all I figure I am "morally and ethically" owed by a
>> location is a reasonable effort made to protect my property from theft
>> and major vandalism.
>>
>> Art
>>
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

Russ - did you have a contract with the other operator? Seems that you
could negotiate an end or reduction to your payments since the location went
sour, if the other op is reasonable.

--
Art
"Russ" <StateStreetAmusements@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:AuNYd.1607$oa6.1259@trnddc07...
> Thanks for all of the advice. I pulled the changer today. I made an
> excuse that I need it and would replace it asap. There are about 30
> gumball and sticker type machines that are not mine and now that he has
> his own games he can worry about making change. I think I will try and
> sell most of it off. Keep a few pieces. I got this location from another
> operator and am still paying him monthly. He never had a contract. I am
> not doing things without contracts anymore.
>
> Thanks to all
>
> Russ
> "Russ" <StateStreetAmusements@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:UvAYd.1160$GI6.582@trnddc05...
>>I am a small route operator who is getting smaller every month. One of my
>>locations decided to purchase their own games. I showed up there to check
>>on the changer and notice four different games there. They never called
>>to discuss the issue. They plan on buying more and said that they would
>>let me operate the pinball's, because they can't service them. So how
>>should I handle this.
>>
>> 1. be polite and remove my equipment as they buy more.
>> 2. Just move everything out (2 drivers, Pedestal gun game, 2
>> pinball's, changer, 3 other games.) I am not done paying for this stuff.
>> 3. Offer to service their equipment for 25% of gross.
>> 4. Offer to sell them my equipment at high prices
>> 5 Offer to sell at market value.
>> 6 Service his stuff on a hourly rate.
>> 7 Try and fight it. Leave my games there and let us both operate. I
>> will put in nicer games.
>> 7. Do something I will regret. I am not sure what that is? Any
>> suggestions?
>>
>> I don't have a contract. He let someone else in there who runs the bulk
>> vending stuff, which I would rather have. We have always had a good
>> relationship. I return his Service calls and respond the same or next
>> day. I rotate as needed. I net about $400-$600 a month. He plans on
>> buying more games and servicing them himself.
>>
>> What do you think? How should I handle this?
>> Thanks
>> Russ
>>
>>
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

> And, I can assume from the details given so far, never made a committment
> to not put his own or other's games along side them.

Maybe I'm reading more into it then I should be...

>Annoying, disappointing, angering, frustrating to the op - of course; but
>that doesnt mean morally wrong.

Only thing I can say... the only way to feel all these emotions would be if
you internally felt you were wronged... and the only way you would feel you
were wronged if there was something done to you that violated your own
internal ethical system...

These type of discussions, while sometime interesting (especially if you've
had a few beers) never actually seem to get any where. Let's face it...
ethics and morals change depending on which side of a street you were raised
on (literally in some cases!).

Me personally... I'm just not in it for myself... of course, I say that
knowing that I live a pretty damn good life

"Art Mallet - Artfromny - formerly A218@aol.com" <artgames@nycap.rr.com>
wrote in message news:LANYd.70037$vK5.39085@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>
>
> "Steve Muccione" <home*DOT*muccione@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:a9MYd.1204$jt6.105@trndny07...
>>I disagree (if you hadn't already guessed ).
>>
>> Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should.
>>
>> The location owner asked the op to bring in equipment.
>
> And, I can assume from the details given so far, never made a committment
> to not put his own or other's games along side them.
>
>
> The op then purchased the equipment at a great expense, installed the
> equipment and
>> maintained it.
>
> Which he freely agreed to do, and did not bind the location to exclusive
> use of his games.
>
>
> The location owner then proceeds to jeopardize the op's ability to recoup
> the investment that he requested
> Yep, thats called free enterprise, and remember - the op at all times had
> a choice to invest or not invest, take the location or not
>
>
>> I'm sorry... just because doing something may be *best* for YOU doesn't
>> mean that it is ethically correct to do so.
>
> What particular ethic got breached here? And remember, I am on the
> operating end of this, not the location, and I still dont see anything
> wrong. Annoying, disappointing, angering, frustrating to the op - of
> course; but that doesnt mean morally wrong.
>
> Art
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Maybe it's just me and how I was brought up... maybe I'm being old
>> fashioned... but I have always felt that it is best to treat others with
>> respect even if it means that you don't do as well for yourself.
>>
>> "Art Mallet - Artfromny - formerly A218@aol.com" <artgames@nycap.rr.com>
>> wrote in message news:imGYd.89730$H05.32066@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>>>
>>>
>>> "Steve Muccione" <home*DOT*muccione@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>> news:rFDYd.622$jt6.423@trndny07...
>>>>> No the location owner is not an ass
>>>>
>>>> Do you believe the location owner was morally and ethically correct in
>>>> bringing in games?
>>>
>>>
>>> Absolutely - his location, his business, his investment, his choice. As
>>> an operator myself all I figure I am "morally and ethically" owed by a
>>> location is a reasonable effort made to protect my property from theft
>>> and major vandalism.
>>>
>>> Art
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

I use my contracts to show what equipment is owned by me... One of my
locations has pool tables and juke boxes that are owned by another op. He
doesn't want to mess with vids and I don't mind his pool tables (I'll
eventually get the entire contract, I think by the end of the summer it will
be mine! I provide better service!)..

I'm trying to keep my equipment mine and keep someone else from running off
with my stuff...

"Ken Layton" <KLayton888@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1110677434.124251.104280@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Naturally it pays to have a written industry standard location
> contract. A contract doesn't stop the location from buying it's own
> equipment or bringing in another operator, but it sure comes in handy
> as a monetary remedy in court when the contract is breached by the
> location. You could get treble damages from the location owner.
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

--
Art
"Steve Muccione" <home*DOT*muccione@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:MhOYd.2260$FB6.1243@trndny09...
>> And, I can assume from the details given so far, never made a committment
>> to not put his own or other's games along side them.
>
> Maybe I'm reading more into it then I should be...
>
>>Annoying, disappointing, angering, frustrating to the op - of course; but
>>that doesnt mean morally wrong.
>
> Only thing I can say... the only way to feel all these emotions would be
> if you internally felt you were wronged... and the only way you would feel
> you were wronged if there was something done to you that violated your own
> internal ethical system...

or violated your perception of what someone else's ethics should be

>
> These type of discussions, while sometime interesting (especially if
> you've had a few beers) never actually seem to get any where. Let's face
> it... ethics and morals change depending on which side of a street you
> were raised on (literally in some cases!).
>
> Me personally... I'm just not in it for myself... of course, I say that
> knowing that I live a pretty damn good life
>
> "Art Mallet - Artfromny - formerly A218@aol.com" <artgames@nycap.rr.com>
> wrote in message news:LANYd.70037$vK5.39085@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>>
>>
>> "Steve Muccione" <home*DOT*muccione@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:a9MYd.1204$jt6.105@trndny07...
>>>I disagree (if you hadn't already guessed ).
>>>
>>> Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you should.
>>>
>>> The location owner asked the op to bring in equipment.
>>
>> And, I can assume from the details given so far, never made a committment
>> to not put his own or other's games along side them.
>>
>>
>> The op then purchased the equipment at a great expense, installed the
>> equipment and
>>> maintained it.
>>
>> Which he freely agreed to do, and did not bind the location to exclusive
>> use of his games.
>>
>>
>> The location owner then proceeds to jeopardize the op's ability to
>> recoup the investment that he requested
>> Yep, thats called free enterprise, and remember - the op at all times
>> had a choice to invest or not invest, take the location or not
>>
>>
>>> I'm sorry... just because doing something may be *best* for YOU doesn't
>>> mean that it is ethically correct to do so.
>>
>> What particular ethic got breached here? And remember, I am on the
>> operating end of this, not the location, and I still dont see anything
>> wrong. Annoying, disappointing, angering, frustrating to the op - of
>> course; but that doesnt mean morally wrong.
>>
>> Art
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Maybe it's just me and how I was brought up... maybe I'm being old
>>> fashioned... but I have always felt that it is best to treat others with
>>> respect even if it means that you don't do as well for yourself.
>>>
>>> "Art Mallet - Artfromny - formerly A218@aol.com" <artgames@nycap.rr.com>
>>> wrote in message news:imGYd.89730$H05.32066@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Steve Muccione" <home*DOT*muccione@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:rFDYd.622$jt6.423@trndny07...
>>>>>> No the location owner is not an ass
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you believe the location owner was morally and ethically correct in
>>>>> bringing in games?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Absolutely - his location, his business, his investment, his choice.
>>>> As an operator myself all I figure I am "morally and ethically" owed by
>>>> a location is a reasonable effort made to protect my property from
>>>> theft and major vandalism.
>>>>
>>>> Art
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

 

[Mike]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

Russ,
Pull your stuff out. THe business owner may be trying to run his
business in his best interest, but he is in turn telling YOU how to run
YOUR business by delegating what amusement equipment he wants in his
location. Find another location to put your games in, or sell the
games.

You can offer a service contract to him, but I would charge the maximum
amount of money to service his equipment that you could stomach. When
his Namco or Sega piece blows up and the game is down for 6 weeks
because the board had to go back to corporate for repair, AND he has to
pay $400+ after waiting for the board for 6+ weeks, he'll think twice
about being an operator in his own location. If in your heart of
hearts you really want the location, keep a rapport with him... most
small businesses will go back to the operator after going arouund the
block.

Keep in mind that as an operator, you can work from a decent or large
pool of equipment. Something's been in the spot for a few months, swap
it with another piece on your route... the game is new and fresh for
your location. For the store owner who wants to upgrade his
facilities, he is working with what he has in the location. He would
probably have to take a game back to the dist. (who will inevitably
rape him on trade in), and then spend through the nose to get the new
game he wants.