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NV 56.56-Another stellar NV hit

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February 25, 2004 4:20:53 AM

Hooray!!! These new drivers ROCK!

If you own NV (and I hope you do if your reading this now), there are great new features.

1. GAME PROFILES
And when I say game profile support I mean you can set them up for ANY exe, completely customizable... they load on launch.
Very, very cool.
When I had my ATI this is what they claimed to have (to some degree) but you have to manually load them. Nuts to that.

2. "Play on my TV" option for right clicks on video files. Sends any video file directly to your TV... no ands, ifs or buts about it.

3. For some reason (and I'm not complaining) it even blocks popups LOL. Not bad, not bad... fixing other peoples problems! And probably doing a better job of it anyway...

Also gridlining is available but it isnt useful for me.
But FiringSquad rants about it.

Yet MORE reasons why NV software support is superior to all!

----
RESIDENT FORUM WARRIOR
Support the terrorists, vote democrat
NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil team leader
Who cares about HL2/D3 when we have Call of Duty today!!

More about : stellar hit

February 25, 2004 4:50:18 AM

yes it proven once again nVidia makes magic drivers, ATi makes PATCHES.

RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
120% nVidia Fanboy
never tried to go crazy when it comes to o/cing.
THGC's resident Asian and Graphics Forum's resident nVboy :D 
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February 25, 2004 9:42:59 AM

I'm a genius!

Make cards with holes in them! You don't even need the GPU. Just a nice, comfy, adjustable hole!

A long long time ago, but I can still remember, how that music used to make me smile... <A HREF="http://www.nexus.hu/zonix/DIGGER.MID" target="_new"><b><font color=blue>Digger rulz</font color=blue></b></A>
February 25, 2004 11:12:04 AM

I must admit that those new features are great! And I wish ATI will add the "Video on TV" in Catalyst.

I can't wait to see IQ comparison on these new nVidia drivers, because the last comparison I read, ATI had the IQ advantage, but the performance were equal (9600 versus 5700).

This driver release will put pressure on ATI!

--
Would you buy a GPS enabled soap bar?
a b U Graphics card
February 25, 2004 11:30:14 AM

Quote:
3. For some reason (and I'm not complaining) it even blocks popups LOL. Not bad, not bad... fixing other peoples problems! And probably doing a better job of it anyway...

Ummm... that's on purpose, eh! It's a new feature of nView 3.5 they promote quite heavily (I guess for people who don't use Mozilla/Firefox or some other non-IE browser that has it built in).

Check the review I posted a few days ago;

<A HREF="http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/forceware_56.56/" target="_new">http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/forceware_56.56/&lt;/A>


However you do realize that as an nV owner/user/booster you're Doomed, <A HREF="http://www.fedex.com/us/about/advertising/tvads/dramawm..." target="_new">DOOMED!</A>


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
February 25, 2004 1:33:04 PM

Yup. I gotta say I'm jealous, if for nothing except the game profiles feature.

Ati's profile feature is a joke. What good is it if you can't set it to automatically work with specific apps?

Hopefully Ati will take the cue from Nvidia on this one...

________________
<b>Radeon <font color=red>9500 PRO</b></font color=red> <i>(hardmodded 9500, o/c 322/322)</i>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>2600+</b></font color=red> <i>(o/c 2400+ w/143Mhz fsb)</i>
<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>4,055</b></font color=red>
a b U Graphics card
February 25, 2004 1:37:36 PM

Quote:
Yet MORE reasons why NV software support is superior to all!

It has to be since their Hardware is Inferior. :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 

I like the profiles bigtime though and will use them in my NVidia systems.

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
February 25, 2004 4:45:38 PM

Quote:
It has to be since their Hardware is Inferior.

While I realize you were joking around. Its not inferior in all ways.
The hardware is more capable and more advanced, but it performs less in apps using DX9 hardware functions (which arent in high demand).
I predict that by the time DX9 or beyond is actually in use, NV will lead in every aspect once again.

^^
My usual flamebait :smile:

edit- PS. I dont want to piss off any FX users out there, after I reread my post I realize I dont want it to come across as my connotation being that NV is utterly and completely inferior, if not superior in many apps. The performance difference between the 5950 Ultra and 9800XT is not worth shouting over.
Let alone the 5900nonultras and 9600s.
The time for hating NV is over (and rather baseless IMO), as the old truths about the rivalry are becoming ever more clear.

----
RESIDENT FORUM WARRIOR
Support the terrorists, vote democrat
NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil team leader
Who cares about HL2/D3 when we have Call of Duty today!!<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by kinney on 02/25/04 01:03 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
February 25, 2004 4:58:24 PM

Yes we talked about this when I owned my 9800s.
Its amazing how the difference between having to right click and left click once, and having it auto load can peeve us off..
its not that for me, but rather that I have to remember to turn it back off once I leave game.

As far as ATI, if they'd take a strong lead in the driver innovation department I'd be all ATI.
But I found otherwise with my recent ATI experience that they still have compatibility and other issues.

Another thing I didnt mention was that now all FX cards will auto overclock with these drivers much like the XT line.
You have to enable the coolbits tweak and turn it on but its there.

Another interesting thing from NV.
They can someday allow FX and above users to get more performance the "safe" way... and pull even more performance out of their cards.
Actually quite a nice bonus for anyone with a FX.
Thats what I like about NV, though their FX line something they are now going to move away from with the NV40 release... they never forget users of their old cards..
even dating back to the original TNT or Riva.
I feel like they give a damn, and am willing to be dumping plenty of money into their new cards because of it.

----
RESIDENT FORUM WARRIOR
Support the terrorists, vote democrat
NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil team leader
Who cares about HL2/D3 when we have Call of Duty today!!
February 25, 2004 5:22:01 PM

Everything for you, but my 9800Pro with my average system (1700+) could not run 'everything' with those settings. It will not remain that way for long if that is your preference.

For most people who have lesser cards (or the same card in my case) the individual settings is great.

I mean... LOL... if you feel you dont need them, you dont need them ROFL

Most of us have been wanting this for some time in both ATI and NV driver sets.

Better send out that request to ATI to not waste time on implementing it if thats your view. :wink:

----
RESIDENT FORUM WARRIOR
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NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil team leader
Who cares about HL2/D3 when we have Call of Duty today!!
February 25, 2004 5:24:57 PM

BTW to everyone, NV is still working on these and will officially release them March 1st.

I'd wait till then to upgrade... just a heads up tho.

----
RESIDENT FORUM WARRIOR
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Who cares about HL2/D3 when we have Call of Duty today!!
a b U Graphics card
February 25, 2004 5:52:26 PM

Yeah, but it will be another build name for the one they are still working on. Perhaps the 56.57, or 56.78 or something.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
February 25, 2004 6:04:10 PM

Quote:
The time for hating NV is over (and rather baseless IMO), as the old truths about the rivalry are becoming ever more clear.


WTF? It's ALWAYS time to hate nVidia. :tongue:

Damn them. Damn them to HELL!

<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>
a b U Graphics card
February 25, 2004 7:04:28 PM

Quote:
edit- PS. I dont want to piss off any FX users out there

Nah you had it right the first time, the FX sucks! Heck even the CEO said so himself!


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
a b U Graphics card
February 25, 2004 7:21:58 PM

Quote:
They can someday allow FX and above users to get more performance the "safe" way... and pull even more performance out of their cards.
Actually quite a nice bonus for anyone with a FX.

Cool now FX5200 owners might average 10fps at 800x600. :smile: Of course I agree any performance increase is a good thing.


Quote:
they never forget users of their old cards..

They better not seeing as they keep releasing the same DX7 cards over and over under new names. GF2, GF4MX, soon the mighty 4300.
You know I have to still poke fun at NVidia. I own more NVidia cards than ATI and have used them in builds probably 2:1 over ATI in the past year (mostly because of the value of the Ti4200). Being an owner of both cards and running many machines during mini in-home LAN parties. I must say ATI impresses me far more than NVidia. Yes their magic drivers are helping, but apart from a few good cards (Ti4200, FX5900XT), IMO NVidia just doesn't put out the best product in almost any price range.


Speeduk
Quote:
Whats the point in having profiles for games if you dont need them? My 9700p @ 9800p runs everything fine @ 6xAA and 8xAF.

To some extent I agree, but it still would come in handy. Can't play farcry demo with AA/AF. Hopefully the full game.

The main reason I bought the 9800 Pro was to use AA/AF at 1280x1024. And Nvidia cards simple do not compete with AA/AF. I bought an FX5900 hoping to use those settings, forget it. My R9500Pro was better looking and much higher FPS. I returned the 5900 and owned a R9800 non pro for a bit. Much better card. Now jumped on the price drops and went to the R9800 pro. HUGE difference in AA/AF. And honestly, why spend that kind of money and get poor AA/AF Performance and/or Quality.

I still disagree with anyone who claims a FX5950Ultra and Radeon 9800XT are equal. That is simple false IMO. Owning a $450 gaming card only makes sense if you use AA/AF. And at 4X/8X the FX is behind. I'd honestly rather OWN my Radeon 9800 Pro than an FX5950. The only reason I'd trade, is if I thought I could easily ebay the FX and make a few bucks. EDIT: I had in mind making some money to help pay for an upgrade to either ATI or NVidia's next generation cards.

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Pauldh on 02/25/04 04:37 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
February 25, 2004 8:21:52 PM

I agree with the two cards not being equal. They simply are not!! There are some games where my Ti4400 has benchmarked as high as the FX5600 or even higher, LOL. It is simply a design flaw, hopefully it will be remidied in the new NV40 cards. Although i believe that ATI's will still be alot faster with AA on unless Nvidia comes up with a new method or copies ATI(doubtful).

OverKill is not defined by the power you use, but by the power you have to spare....
February 25, 2004 8:38:22 PM

While I agree that NV has got it right as far as driver features, I must say that I've never experienced the Ati compatibility/driver issue's you're talking about, Kinney.

What issues exactly did you have? I've been running Ati's for the past year, and the only problem I had in that time was the inability to use AA/AF with need for speed underground.

I play all the newest games/demos, and everything else has been just fine for me...

________________
<b>Radeon <font color=red>9500 PRO</b></font color=red> <i>(hardmodded 9500, o/c 322/322)</i>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>2600+</b></font color=red> <i>(o/c 2400+ w/143Mhz fsb)</i>
<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>4,055</b></font color=red>
February 25, 2004 9:30:49 PM

Its the general quirkiness.
But over time I was generally dissatisfied... wierd artifacts (such as in Gladiator Sword of Vengeance or Counterstrike), or horrible lagginess in XP compared to NV cards, issues with drivers becoming corrupted and not allowing it to boot forcing a reinstall.. they've all been posted here before. Many contend with my points and say that its not ATIs fault, but it is. I've never experienced any of these identical issues with my NV cards. If that doesnt show blame I dont know what does. Again, might be my specific Nforce2 board.. I dont know, dont care. Also had multiple issues with my ATI tv tuner. Actually, that POS was absolutely ridiculous.
Plus, the driver features that NV provides are better.

----
RESIDENT FORUM WARRIOR
Support the terrorists, vote democrat
NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil team leader
Who cares about HL2/D3 when we have Call of Duty today!!
February 25, 2004 9:36:56 PM

Yeah right bud. A 5950 Ultra does NOT suck. Only a entrenched, closeminded fanboy could say otherwise.

There is more than one "FX" contrary to what you claim, the CEO did not said it "sucked" but rather the 5800 itself was a mistake.
Its funny how people allow this one mishap shape their view of an entire companys product line....
sheep. :smile: :smile: :smile:


----
RESIDENT FORUM WARRIOR
Support the terrorists, vote democrat
NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil team leader
Who cares about HL2/D3 when we have Call of Duty today!!
February 25, 2004 9:48:39 PM

I could give a damn less about your guys' pathetic arguement against long time reigning NV's superiority (and inevitable comeback when the ArtX technology is used up and its back to the 'excellent' ATI management/engineers)......
( :smile: )
Its like Hong Kong being taken over by the Chinese.. it was a GOOD thing but you know they'll ruin it in time!

I AM NOW A HONORARY POSTER! Yayy!!!

I HATE the title nimble knuckle.

Now if one of you could make that damn admin change my title to what I've requested "FORUM WARRIOR"!!!

----
RESIDENT FORUM WARRIOR
Support the terrorists, vote democrat
NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil team leader
Who cares about HL2/D3 when we have Call of Duty today!!
February 25, 2004 9:55:54 PM

Thats sensible. R300 was great, no one denies that.
Us NV fanboys are openminded compared to the other side.
Well, thats because we know unlike ATI fanboys.. that if we get one victory that its not our only chance for a hoorah in the history of the company. :lol: 
For most, its because its a Canadian Pride movement, not because they offer superior products.

I was generally happy with my 9800s.
But the R300 based stuff was a waste IMO, not many (if at all for sometime) games that require or even use hardware DX9 functions... and just now and when the 'biggies' are released a DX9+ card will be needed.
Unlike most here, I dont upgrade merely for AA/AF performance.

AA/AF is nice if you want to justify a large loss of money that is otherwise completely wasted.. but for me, it wasnt satisfying enough to render my purchases viable.
So they got fleabayed and some lady in canada owns them now. Well that and I sold them to her as Pros, hehehe.

I'd have to agree, being "stuck" with a 5950 Ultra wouldnt hurt my ego tooooo badly :wink: !

----
RESIDENT FORUM WARRIOR
Support the terrorists, vote democrat
NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil team leader
Who cares about HL2/D3 when we have Call of Duty today!!
February 25, 2004 10:14:13 PM

Well I personally love playing every game (except X-2) @ 6xAA and 8xAF with no drop in frame rates. And whats that about the R300 based stuff?

Nice how you suddenly forget all the probs NV had with their current line of products and DX9 shaders. In fact that very comment leads me to conclude that you are less open minded than you say.

Its true ATI's drivers have not had the functionality and compatability that NV's have. But the latest 4.2's seem to play all my games fine (for once). They even play spellforce with AA enabled in the CP (a heavily NV backed game).

For once I can say my 9700pro plays every game I own (kotor, X2, spellforce, tiger woods 04 + unreal2k3 to name a few) perfectly and only X2 - which has performance issues due to its coding rather than being driver related - won't play smooth @ 6xAA and 8XAF.

The only thing that NV had over ATI was driver compatability and maybe some VIVO options, but it now looks like that may be changing. All we need now is exe specific configs in the cp and there won't be one thing wrong with buying an ATI product in the future.

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7584476" target="_new"> My rig </A>
February 25, 2004 10:51:05 PM

PSH, i didn't even get the title "THGC's favourite nVidiot"

RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
120% nVidia Fanboy
never tried to go crazy when it comes to o/cing.
THGC's resident Asian and Graphics Forum's resident nVboy :D 
February 25, 2004 10:53:05 PM

Quote:
u suddenly forget all the probs NV had with their current line of products and DX9 shaders

I didnt forget. Its just not relevant. How many DX9 games do you play? On the larger scale, the number couldnt justify the purchase price. And how many of those would honestly result in ruining the experience if played on a equal NV card?

Quote:
All we need now is exe specific configs in the cp and there won't be one thing wrong with buying an ATI product in the future.

Nothing is 'wrong' with either. The only card I would be so negative as to say theres something "wrong" with it are the volari.

----
RESIDENT FORUM WARRIOR
Support the terrorists, vote democrat
NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil team leader
Who cares about HL2/D3 when we have Call of Duty today!!
February 25, 2004 10:54:08 PM

Quote:
PSH, i didn't even get the title "THGC's favourite nVidiot"

ok #2

----
RESIDENT FORUM WARRIOR
Support the terrorists, vote democrat
NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil team leader
Who cares about HL2/D3 when we have Call of Duty today!!
February 25, 2004 10:57:32 PM

GTFO AND STFU!

RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
120% nVidia Fanboy
never tried to go crazy when it comes to o/cing.
THGC's resident Asian and Graphics Forum's resident nVboy :D 
a b U Graphics card
February 26, 2004 1:40:50 AM

With a Radeon 8500 on a Windows 98 KT333 computer, I had one issue in UT2003. With detailed textures on, the lighting was flashing. Other than that I have personally run a dozen systems in the last year with ATI cards, without any issues.

I have had more issues with NVidia cards. Take our last LAN party. 8 computers playing F1-2002 and the GTR2002 mod. The 3 ATI's looked perfect... no visual problems. The 5 NVidia cards using different driver version and very different configs had disgusting visual glitches in the car shadows. You may call it a problem with the game or mod, but I call it ATI's more compatible hardware. We had GF3, GF3Ti200, 2 GF4 Ti4200, 1 GF4Ti4600, all with the same glitch. And I tried on my systems to use other drivers, no help. That game looks so sweet, but the quality on the nVidia cards is not nearly as good. The R9500 pro, R8500, R8500le were far superior looking and other people agreed with that.


ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
February 26, 2004 2:40:28 AM

ROFL!!!!! That doomed video was great!! hahahahahahhahah!

The one and only "Monstrous BULLgarian!"
February 26, 2004 3:02:26 AM

Quote:
The R9500 pro, R8500, R8500le were far superior looking and other people agreed with that.

Oh. Then I'd better go with the crowd then!
On that scientific test done with many controlled factors.
<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1931" target="_new">Anand says differently</A>

/slips on sheep suit

Your experiences are certainly not the norm.

Quote:
but I call it ATI's more compatible hardware.

Eh? Considering NV has been the standard bearer for much longer than ATI I'm bewildered.
Apparantly you havent heard of the HAL, or concept on how modern OSs work.
If there were a problem it would be more likely software than hardware.
Driver issues, DX issues, ect.

LOL... keep rockin in the free world dude.

----
RESIDENT FORUM WARRIOR
Support the terrorists, vote democrat
NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil team leader
Who cares about HL2/D3 when we have Call of Duty today!!
a b U Graphics card
February 26, 2004 10:51:46 AM

Mr. Know-it-all speaks back. You talked about ATI Driver quirks. I think it was user quirks personally.

Yes I know NVidia has been the king and the 4ti series was great. But the FX series has been a totally different story. The only "norm" NVidia is now is with the way its meant to be played games. Look at the HL2 developers working their butts off to try and get decent performance on NVidia's Hardware.

Yeah, and the "experts" all over the web don't find NVidia Image quality issues. What NVidiot dream world have you been living in? LOL

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
February 26, 2004 1:12:56 PM

Quote:
Its the general quirkiness... Many contend with my points and say that its not ATIs fault, but it is.

Now, that's a pretty nebulous and biased sweeping statement there, kinney.
Are you suggesting that Nvidia drivers have no quirks?
And that your opinion that it's "Ati's fault" is right, because it's your opinion and everyone else's is invalid?

You say DirectX 9 is irrelevant... when even Nvidia has been touting it from day 1. How can it be irrelevant when everybody in the past 5 months has upgraded with Half Life 2 in mind? Is it maybe irrelevant because you want it to be? Do you think the hundreds of dollars people shell out in anticipation of a highly touted feature/game is irrelevant?

And how can you simply gloss over the fact that Ati's antialiassing is far superior to NVs? Hell, the Ti4200 is fast enough to run almost any game at 1024*768 with no AA or shaders. AA and shaders are the main reason people are buying more powerful videocards. So because the advantage is Ati's, you just ignore these things conveniently?

Honestly Kinney, I've got nothing against NV. I'd be surprised if I never buy another Nvidia card before I die.

But your statements here basically equate to "I believe NV is better because it's what I want to believe and to hell with everyone else's opinion".

I mean, that's pure fanboyism. Why bother debating you? Your mind is obviously made up and you are of the opinion that any evidence to the contrary is propeganda. You aren't even able to see it because of your prejudices.

________________
<b>Radeon <font color=red>9500 PRO</b></font color=red> <i>(hardmodded 9500, o/c 322/322)</i>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>2600+</b></font color=red> <i>(o/c 2400+ w/143Mhz fsb)</i>
<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>4,055</b></font color=red>
February 26, 2004 2:15:35 PM

Quote:
But over time I was generally dissatisfied... wierd artifacts (such as in Gladiator Sword of Vengeance or Counterstrike), or horrible lagginess in XP compared to NV cards, issues with drivers becoming corrupted and not allowing it to boot forcing a reinstall.. they've all been posted here before. Many contend with my points and say that its not ATIs fault, but it is. I've never experienced any of these identical issues with my NV cards. If that doesnt show blame I dont know what does.


I could say the same for my Radeon cards. Never had an issue with ANY of them. The original Radeon, Radeon 8500, and now a Radeon 9700 Pro. If it's truly ATi's fault as you suggest kinney, the why have I never had an issue?

So if someone has an issue with a nVidia card, are you going to tell me it's not nVidia's fault... yet if someone has an issue with a Radeon card it's ATi's fault?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

You should talk to my customer that can't get his TV-out to work on his GeForce 3. Something I've never had a problem with on ATi cards.

<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>
February 26, 2004 5:31:32 PM

Only issues ive had with my 9700pro are:

1.) Not able to implement anti aliasing in the control panel in the game spellforce without it locking up during loading. The new cat/omega 4.2 fix that.

2.)When enabling anti aliasing in the control panel before playing star wars KOTOR, the game will not display fog properly on some levels.

3.) Prior to the cat/omega 3.8, shadows would not display properly in tiger woods 04.

The latest drivers have fixed these issues though and I don't know of any game with issues atm.....

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7584476" target="_new"> My rig </A>
February 26, 2004 5:44:58 PM

Well I have to agree, i love Nvidia drivers and the ATI ones just don't, well, work as well. But I have to say the 9800 pro I have is a great card. who knows, maybe in the next round of hardware Nvidia may take the lead, and if they do then I'll be standing in line to buy one.

....................
<font color=red>AMD 2700 XP<font color=red>
<font color=red>Gecube 9800 pro Extreme<font color=red>
<font color=blue>ASUS A7N8X deluxe<font color=blue>
<font color=blue>1024 meg Dual Channel DDR 3200<font color=blue>
....................
February 26, 2004 8:50:03 PM

Quote:
The original Radeon, Radeon 8500, and now a Radeon 9700 Pro. If it's truly ATi's fault as you suggest kinney, the why have I never had an issue?


You never had a problem with your original radeon or 8500, or various driver versions with the 9700Pro?
BS alarm. Or you didnt try too much with it.
No way. I used my 9800Pro for 6months and encountered issues...
and those are rather primed drivers from the original 9700 release.

Quote:
So if someone has an issue with a nVidia card, are you going to tell me it's not nVidia's fault... yet if someone has an issue with a Radeon card it's ATi's fault?


Depends on the issue.
Unless your going to blindly try to attach blame that is ATIs fault, to NV in the same situation when it is another uncontrolled factor.

----
RESIDENT FORUM WARRIOR
Support the terrorists, vote democrat
NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil team leader
Who cares about HL2/D3 when we have Call of Duty today!!
February 26, 2004 8:58:07 PM

Quote:
You say DirectX 9 is irrelevant... when even Nvidia has been touting it from day 1.


I dont care what NV says.
Thats what I'M saying. Hello.

Quote:
How can it be irrelevant when everybody in the past 5 months has upgraded with Half Life 2 in mind?


The entire forum agrees that is one of the most foolish, shortsighted and ridiculous things to do.
Never upgrade for a game that has not been released... let alone a release date that is never solid.

Quote:
Do you think the hundreds of dollars people shell out in anticipation of a highly touted feature/game is irrelevant?

No its ridiculously stupid.

Quote:
So because the advantage is Ati's, you just ignore these things conveniently?

Not true. In fact if you read above, and as you already know.. the forum, including myself has stated many times that upgrading for a game that is not released is not a good idea.
Its not an advantage at all.
If you like AA/AF that much, go right ahead jump in the fray. I chose to pull out and I think that is the best choice until those games are released.

Quote:
"I believe NV is better because it's what I want to believe and to hell with everyone else's opinion".

Not true. Above, and before I stated many reasons why.
Just because others are stating arguments that have been shot down, and almost universally agreed AGAINST by the entire forum (upgrading for vaporware) I believe that does make the opposing side nearly as irrelevant as an opinion based argument can get.

Quote:
Why bother debating you?

Show me the facts and logical reason why the things I've said are not true.. and I'll join your side in the quest for ultimate AA/AF..
simple.

----
RESIDENT FORUM WARRIOR
Support the terrorists, vote democrat
NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil team leader
Who cares about HL2/D3 when we have Call of Duty today!!
February 26, 2004 9:00:13 PM

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Mr. Know-it-all speaks back.

No just Mr. know-more-than-you.

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Yeah, and the "experts" all over the web don't find NVidia Image quality issues. What NVidiot dream world have you been living in? LOL

You have a more credible source than ANANDTECH saying otherwise?

Speak from facts, not this drivel you carry on with.

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RESIDENT FORUM WARRIOR
Support the terrorists, vote democrat
NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil team leader
Who cares about HL2/D3 when we have Call of Duty today!!
February 26, 2004 9:14:10 PM

LOL WTF DX9 irrelevant? All games released in the past year have been DX9. Freelancer was one of the first.

BTW what the hell is wrong with doing anti aliasing and anistropic filtering well? My monitor maxes out @ 1024x768 and the ability to do the aforementioned is a big + in my book.

Anyone else's b/s detector going off here?



<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7584476" target="_new"> My rig </A>
February 26, 2004 9:34:31 PM

Two of the years biggest games, BF1942 and COD... do not take advantage of DX9 hardware.
Everyone, and I mean nearly everyone here has stated that its wisest to wait for the "big two" to be released before buying a card for those, and I think that since that would be buying a DX9 card.. it would be wise to say wait till then for one as they will be the standard setters.
Unless, you are in love with AA/AF.
Like you, I find it a 'plus', certainly.
No one said there was anything wrong with aa/af.. quit twisting my words or dont post.

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RESIDENT FORUM WARRIOR
Support the terrorists, vote democrat
NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil team leader
Who cares about HL2/D3 when we have Call of Duty today!!
February 26, 2004 10:14:11 PM

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I dont care what NV says.
Thats what I'M saying. Hello.

Fair enough. So just to make sure we're on the same page, what you *ARE* saying is: (correct me if I'm wrong)

1. DirectX 9 is useless.
2. Anybody who plans to play future games and upgraded in the past 6 months is stupid
3. And the gist of your whole point from your posts is that Nvidia hardware is better than Ati's because they have less driver issues.

Alright, this I can respond to.

As for #1 and 2... DX9 is useless, and anyone who upgrades for future games is an idiot:

Well, I upgraded 5 months ago from a Radeon 8500 to a 9500 PRO. Not for Half-Life 2 mind you, or DX9, but for all my games. I wanted something that does higher resolutions and modest AA/AF.
If I followed your advice, and got say a GeforceFX 5800 (with those super-stable drivers... right?) I'd have to upgrade AGAIN when HL2 came out to get full DX9 visuals and speed.
As it stands, my 9500 PRO will be kicking ass for some time to come.
Tell me, how is that irrelevant? It's obviously relevant to anyone who upgrades that more advanced hardware is a better buy. I have certainly recieved more longevity from my purchase.
Advantage: Ati

To respond to your opinion that Nvidia has less driver issues than Ati:

This is basically an editorial comment, Kinney, based on your limited personal use. I'd really need to see some collected data on the subject to take it seriously.
Just like many others (includng myself) have had nothing but good experiences with Ati drivers, I don't go around saying they're perfect.
Nor do I believe that Nvidia's drivers are perfect, although I will happily attest to their forward-looking game profile functionality.

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and I'll join your side in the quest for ultimate AA/AF..

If ultimate AA/AF is what you're looking for, look no further than the 9800XT. It has far superior AA than a GeforceFX 5950 (even an Nvidiot has to admit that Ati's AA implementation blows away Nvidias, it's painfully obvious in-game which looks better).
And the 9800XT's AF solution might not be as "pure" as Nvidias but I've yet to see a reasonable example of it looking better in a gameplay situation.

So there you have it. The ultimate AA/AF available today. Might change in the near future, but as of this moment Ati has the mantle of supremacy.

But show me the facts and logical reason why the things I've said are not true.. and I'll join your side in the defence of Nvidia hardware. :wink:

________________
<b>Radeon <font color=red>9500 PRO</b></font color=red> <i>(hardmodded 9500, o/c 322/322)</i>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>2600+</b></font color=red> <i>(o/c 2400+ w/143Mhz fsb)</i>
<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>4,055</b></font color=red>
a b U Graphics card
February 26, 2004 10:38:49 PM

"No just Mr. know-more-than-you."

LOL I got a kick out of that one. Kinney I build 20+ machines a year, mostly for gamers or at least casual gamers, and I work on troubleshoot/upgrade countless others. Sure there are plenty of people who know more than me. But for those who do personally know me and rely on me for all their computer needs, they think I'm the supergeek who can fix any problem. I don't doubt you know quite a bit about computer hardware, I just think you like to blow smoke, stir things up, and you are married to NVidia. Sad, because you have been missing out on the best hardware for the past year. And I don't call buying 2 R9800's and flashing them to to sell as R9800 Pro's is very respectable and qualifies for you as experiencing ATI. I use both NVidia cards and ATI close to equally. Because of Ti4200 budget cards, it's probably 60/40 in favor of NVidia in the last 12 months. But based on the fact that I can get dozens of systems to run well with ATI cards, and you can't get your one, LOL, seems you know less than you think. :lol: 


AS far as speaking from fact not drivel, read everyones comments on what you are saying. To most people you spew drivel.

I'll agree, Anandtech is a great site. Probably is the tech review site I have read the most. But maybe you should try this cool site named google, and even you could find the proof you ask for. Of course you may need to take off those foggy NVidia goggles you wear.


ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
February 26, 2004 10:57:26 PM

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No just Mr. know-more-than-you."

LOL I got a kick out of that one.

:smile: Yeah so did I. I hope you ppl dont take me too entirely seriously..

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I don't doubt you know quite a bit about computer hardware, I just think you like to blow smoke, stir things up, and you are married to NVidia


Thank you. and yes to the above.
Though I'm not married to NV. I just like them more for various reasons.
I like to debate, and I like going against the grain. In this forum, its pro-ATI all the way.

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And I don't call buying 2 R9800's and flashing them to to sell as R9800 Pro's is very respectable and qualifies for you as experiencing ATI.

Come now... I dont know what does then. I have more exp. than that, that is my most recent..

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But based on the fact that I can get dozens of systems to run well with ATI cards, and you can't get your one, LOL, seems you know less than you think.

Yes I did. They worked fine when I got all the 'quirks' figured out..
many here (the ATI covenant), couldnt help me with one large issue in particular that was making the card unusable on one machine.

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I'll agree, Anandtech is a great site. Probably is the tech review site I have read the most.

Agreed.. all the way.

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But maybe you should try this cool site named google, and even you could find the proof you ask for.

No. I only trust good sources, not the plethora of sites that result to any given google search.
Anandtech #1, OCP #2, THG #3.. some others in tehre somewhere. Ars Technica is def. the most professional, knowledgable site.

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To most people you spew drivel.

Of course, I'm not telling them what they want to hear!
Hence they have to gang up on me instead of one of them simply prove me otherwise.

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Of course you may need to take off those foggy NVidia goggles you wear.


I could equally state that you take off your ATI goggles.


----
RESIDENT FORUM WARRIOR
Support the terrorists, vote democrat
NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil team leader
Who cares about HL2/D3 when we have Call of Duty today!!
February 26, 2004 11:07:58 PM

Quote:
1. DirectX 9 is useless.
2. Anybody who plans to play future games and upgraded in the past 6 months is stupid
3. And the gist of your whole point from your posts is that Nvidia hardware is better than Ati's because they have less driver issues.

DX9 itself is not useless. But buying hardware specifically for DX9 games up until about this point (the "big 2" release) is silly.

I dont think your decision to go 9500 Pro was bad. It depends what your going from.. and you stated you didnt do it for HL2 launch. You did it for an overall card.
Depending on what card you came from, I respect that.

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If I followed your advice, and got say a GeforceFX 5800

I dont know if I recommend that. Hinesight is 20/20 and I certainly wouldve been incorrect if I have recommended that one.

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If ultimate AA/AF is what you're looking for, look no further than the 9800XT. It has far superior AA than a GeforceFX 5950 (even an Nvidiot has to admit that Ati's AA implementation blows away Nvidias, it's painfully obvious in-game which looks better).

I'm not in search of that (I find it a bonus), but I liked cranking 8XAA/16AF in Everquest and other older games with no fear of slowdown.
Just not necessary by any means in my book. I had to return my cards for the lost $$..

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things I've said are not true.. and I'll join your side in the defence of Nvidia hardware.

You've defended them in the past.
I can understand you opposing me here because I opposed you.
but I remember a time when you (one of the few openminded members) went up against nearly EVERYONE about the 5900NU being a better solution than a 9600 series card.
I agreed, nearly everyone does agree now.

Goes to show you have to beat it into their heads because they let one massive failure (5800Ultra) cloud THEIR vision for some time.

And the true ATI fanboys around here NEVER let it go as long as they can use it against ALL nv products.
Why would they? They want to encourage a culture of hate in general to NV across the web... so they push the "NV cheats, NV sux" platform as long as possible.

It pushes me further to NV than I already am. Tho I am openminded, my financial history says so more than most here.
I for one, cannot wait for the NV40..

:lol: 

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RESIDENT FORUM WARRIOR
Support the terrorists, vote democrat
NV/AMD/IBM axis of evil team leader
Who cares about HL2/D3 when we have Call of Duty today!!
!