Ok well i was gona get a 9600xt but can't afford it anymore. Currently have a Radeon VE 32 megs (i think preformance wize its around the geforce 2 mx400). Anyway so want to know what would be the best budget vid card to get, really its bettwen the 9200 and fx 5200. Maybe if i get money for my birthday i'll be able to afford the 9600xt but not seeing it right now.
Spitfire_x86
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Radeon 9200 (STAY AWAY from "SE")
If you can spend some extra money, then you can get a GF4 Ti4200.
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If you can spend some extra money, then you can get a GF4 Ti4200.
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New cards release wouldn't do anything to the price of budget cards like ti4200.
And Ti4200 already running low on stock and when new card come out you can only find it on ebay. :tongue:
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And Ti4200 already running low on stock and when new card come out you can only find it on ebay. :tongue:
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TheGreatGrapeApe
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Yeah, I have to agree with ION on this one.
For the most part new low-end cards won't have much effect on the prices, and the R9200 is blown away by the GF4ti, and only the R9600 and above would challenge it IMO.
The release of the RV370 isn't until about june/july, so I wouldn't count on that, and likely it will still be more expensive initially than a GF4ti, and it's presence won't affect the GF4ti's price. Only if the RV370's performance is significantly better than the FX5200 series would I say there's anything worth waiting for. The price of the GF4ti is fairly low. Waiting for the R9600/Pro/XT to come down in price makes sense, but the R9200 and GF4ti won't change much IMO.
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For the most part new low-end cards won't have much effect on the prices, and the R9200 is blown away by the GF4ti, and only the R9600 and above would challenge it IMO.
The release of the RV370 isn't until about june/july, so I wouldn't count on that, and likely it will still be more expensive initially than a GF4ti, and it's presence won't affect the GF4ti's price. Only if the RV370's performance is significantly better than the FX5200 series would I say there's anything worth waiting for. The price of the GF4ti is fairly low. Waiting for the R9600/Pro/XT to come down in price makes sense, but the R9200 and GF4ti won't change much IMO.
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kinney
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Refurb 4200s are coming in at about $60 now.
the refurb 9600pros can sometimes be caught for $100.
Go for whatever shows up first for ya.
I dont think either is a better deal than the other, 4200 prob has more pure bang to buck ratio, but 9600pro is quite obviously a more advanced card.
But both are about to look like ripoff purchases with the new generation coming out (prob).
But cheap enough you wont feel bad. Either will last quite some time longer, ppl are simply overzealous about gfx cards.
Games are targeting the 4200 segment about now for the average card in use.
Well, smart game designers that is.
And the 9600 Pro is about on level with a 4200 in DX8. But you know this.
I bought a 128mb 4200 for about $90 shipped 3 or 4 months ago (price was NOT what I was quoted). and i dont feel bad about that price.
lotta bang for even $100 IMO.
I dont think you can beat either one of those for the prices i claimed.
Great 2nd video cards too.
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the refurb 9600pros can sometimes be caught for $100.
Go for whatever shows up first for ya.
I dont think either is a better deal than the other, 4200 prob has more pure bang to buck ratio, but 9600pro is quite obviously a more advanced card.
But both are about to look like ripoff purchases with the new generation coming out (prob).
But cheap enough you wont feel bad. Either will last quite some time longer, ppl are simply overzealous about gfx cards.
Games are targeting the 4200 segment about now for the average card in use.
Well, smart game designers that is.
And the 9600 Pro is about on level with a 4200 in DX8. But you know this.
I bought a 128mb 4200 for about $90 shipped 3 or 4 months ago (price was NOT what I was quoted). and i dont feel bad about that price.
lotta bang for even $100 IMO.
I dont think you can beat either one of those for the prices i claimed.
Great 2nd video cards too.
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If your really stapped for cash then a Geforce 4 Ti 4200 8X AGP is the go, pretty cheap and with your current rig you would certainly notice the diff.
Gary
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Gary
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....................
Well like i said the only ti 4200 i can find cost an arm and a leg to get, might as well just buy a 9600xt and the ones which were cheapo were all refurbish, and i just don't trust that. I can get a Chaintech GeForce FX 5600XT Video Card / 128MB DDR / AGP 8X / TV Out & DVI for 153$ Canadian and the XFX nVidia GeForce FX 5600 Video Card / 256MB DDR / AGP 8X / TV Out & DVI is on sell for 149$ Canadian.
kinney
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This is a completely useless thing to post for you, but <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-123-119R&depa=0" target="_new">this card</A> was available at the price listed last week.. if you have video (as you apparantly do) maybe waiting a while and watching wouldnt hurt.
Otherwise 8xagp 128mb 4200s can be had for $80 right now on that site.
I dont know anything about canadian money tho or if they ship there.
I actually had the opportunity to purchase <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-291R&depa=0" target="_new">this</A> one but I was in the middle of sending in my 4200 (it was DOA and not refurb BTW).
Just some examples of what price range and what you should expect if you do go refurb.
If you cant wait, I think I'd go 4200 for $80 myself.
If you go for the $130 9600 Pro you might as well just spend the extra few $$ and get a 5900XT, then if you spend those few extra $$ you might as well spend the extra $30 to get a 9800 Pro (thats $199 with free shipping at gateway.com).
Honestly, my only pure unbiased advice would be to either go $80 and get yourself a 128mb 4200 from newegg, or go 9800 Pro for $200.
Only two things I'd spend $$ on now.
And the 9800 pro is going to drop further very soon with the new releases... so I'd have to lean towards the 4200 if you MUST buy now.
I go bang for buck, and those two are unquestioned champs (and only ones worth buying IMO).
Again I claim to no nothing about you canadians positions tho on these deals as far as shipping, financial conversion ect.
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Otherwise 8xagp 128mb 4200s can be had for $80 right now on that site.
I dont know anything about canadian money tho or if they ship there.
I actually had the opportunity to purchase <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-291R&depa=0" target="_new">this</A> one but I was in the middle of sending in my 4200 (it was DOA and not refurb BTW).
Just some examples of what price range and what you should expect if you do go refurb.
If you cant wait, I think I'd go 4200 for $80 myself.
If you go for the $130 9600 Pro you might as well just spend the extra few $$ and get a 5900XT, then if you spend those few extra $$ you might as well spend the extra $30 to get a 9800 Pro (thats $199 with free shipping at gateway.com).
Honestly, my only pure unbiased advice would be to either go $80 and get yourself a 128mb 4200 from newegg, or go 9800 Pro for $200.
Only two things I'd spend $$ on now.
And the 9800 pro is going to drop further very soon with the new releases... so I'd have to lean towards the 4200 if you MUST buy now.
I go bang for buck, and those two are unquestioned champs (and only ones worth buying IMO).
Again I claim to no nothing about you canadians positions tho on these deals as far as shipping, financial conversion ect.
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TheGreatGrapeApe
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Oh you can get a much better deal on Radeons, they just appear from time to time and you need to keep your head up.
BTW, Future Shop was selling the R9800Pro for $299 a few weeks ago.
I posted it <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=389373#389373" target="_new">HERE</A> at the time.
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BTW, Future Shop was selling the R9800Pro for $299 a few weeks ago.
I posted it <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=389373#389373" target="_new">HERE</A> at the time.
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pauldh
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Ah so the PM was useful info? I thought you were being sarcastic. 
And recommending a R9800 pro too. I'm impressed.
I was too late on a <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-156-010R&type=Refurbish" target="_new"> $51.75 R9600 Pro</A> yesterday.
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And recommending a R9800 pro too. I'm impressed. I was too late on a <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-156-010R&type=Refurbish" target="_new"> $51.75 R9600 Pro</A> yesterday.
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TheGreatGrapeApe
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If you are using 3DSMax, then accept nothing less than an R9600 or an FX5600 (not SE for either). Anything less will likely give you slow performance. Even a GF4ti would be better than an FX5200.
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kinney
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Well I usually wouldnt recommend ATI due to their lackluster longterm support, as well as still generally less stable/compatible than NV drivers.
But in this case with the R9800Pro being $200, the card is down to what it is worth taking all things into consideration.
When I say driver support I mean longterm driver support, ATI seems to concentrate on the new cards and forgets about the newer ones.
This might be acceptable for some who upgrade all the time (those in this forum) but not for me.. it might end up in a legacy machine or a 2nd machine.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone to actually say ATI driver support (which includes longterm) is greater than NV.
Well, you might find someone to say it but its just not true.
If the price is right, ATI is worth considering.
Considering all the bugs, things being fixed then broken again and then later not fixed again... I hate shelling out $300 for the latest ATI for those reasons.
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But in this case with the R9800Pro being $200, the card is down to what it is worth taking all things into consideration.
When I say driver support I mean longterm driver support, ATI seems to concentrate on the new cards and forgets about the newer ones.
This might be acceptable for some who upgrade all the time (those in this forum) but not for me.. it might end up in a legacy machine or a 2nd machine.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone to actually say ATI driver support (which includes longterm) is greater than NV.
Well, you might find someone to say it but its just not true.
If the price is right, ATI is worth considering.
Considering all the bugs, things being fixed then broken again and then later not fixed again... I hate shelling out $300 for the latest ATI for those reasons.
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blackphoenix77
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Yeah, I'd go Ti4200 too, its only $80 at pricewatch.com
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I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume that by newer, you meant <b>older</b>. All companies are guilty of this at one time or another... even your precious nVidia. There are plenty of people that recommend staying away from the newest drivers if you have an aging card... on both sides.
As for long term support, exactly how long are companies expected to support old products? If your vid card is 5+ years old and it works great with the older drivers... why bother with new drivers? ATi states on their website that you should upgrade your drivers ONLY if you're having issues. If you're not having any issues and newer drivers won't offer any better performance, why fix what isn't broken?
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pauldh
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I really don't have anything bad to say about Nvidia or ATI's driver support. No neither are perfect. But still.
I still use an AIW 128 Pro on a daily basis without any issues. Matter of fact that computer is used more than any other one in our home. Obviously I do not play games on it. Sure ATI may have stopped releasing driver updates for this card 2 years ago, but the most recent one is DX8.1/ openGL compatible. That chipset has long since become useless for gaming, so no bug/fixes are needed. If they work why keep releasing new one.
So specifically what cards/chipsets/issues have ATI's driver support team been letting you down on? What do you need that can't be found <A HREF="http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html" target="_new"> HERE </A>?
Also, I just downloaded from ATI and installed drivers for an XPert 98@Play 8MB PCI card this past weekend because I reinstalled Win 98 for someone on their old ancient Gateway P5-75. I was pretty amazed they still offered drivers for the rage pro cards. Again, I see no need to argue about who has the best driver support for old cards, when both companies seems fine to me.
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I still use an AIW 128 Pro on a daily basis without any issues. Matter of fact that computer is used more than any other one in our home. Obviously I do not play games on it. Sure ATI may have stopped releasing driver updates for this card 2 years ago, but the most recent one is DX8.1/ openGL compatible. That chipset has long since become useless for gaming, so no bug/fixes are needed. If they work why keep releasing new one.
So specifically what cards/chipsets/issues have ATI's driver support team been letting you down on? What do you need that can't be found <A HREF="http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html" target="_new"> HERE </A>?
Also, I just downloaded from ATI and installed drivers for an XPert 98@Play 8MB PCI card this past weekend because I reinstalled Win 98 for someone on their old ancient Gateway P5-75. I was pretty amazed they still offered drivers for the rage pro cards. Again, I see no need to argue about who has the best driver support for old cards, when both companies seems fine to me.
ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
Well been able to get together 100$ so my parents will be paying the other half as my birthday present for a sapphire 9600xt for 223$ Canadian, but i can also get the Chaintech GeForce FX 5600XT for only 153.99$. Really i havent had any driver problems with my Radeon VE, but last year i did buy a Radeon 8500 LE and couldnt get it to run properly, had artifacts in all games and the system just ran slow, so i returned it. So bettwen those 2 cards which one do you guyd recommend the most?
pauldh
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Oh my, they aren't even close in performance. Don't be fooled by NVidia's XT suffix. The FX5600XT is a crippled 64-bit FX5600, unlike ATI who's 9600XT is the top of the line 9600. Buy the ATI 9600XT, that NVidia card is a joke.
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TheGreatGrapeApe
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Well, my suggestion would be to go PRO, get the R9600PRO and save a bundle. The PRices you're quoting sound like those of NCIX.COM in Burnaby BC, they have the Sapphire R9600Pro for $199, but I have seen cheaper prices all over the place. $169 seems to be the current price at many places. Unfortunately some are Powercolor.
If you look around, and R9600Pro for $170 or so should be available in your region (as long as you're not isolated like RedDeer or Cranbrook or Something.
BTW, a plain jane R9600non-pro (not SE) would blow that FX5600XT out of the water, and they are selling for $142 on NCIX, and I've seen them for $129. But your best bet is a GOOD R9600PRO. If you want the temeprature moitoring and slightly better CORE (Low-K process) then the XT is the way to go, but it's usually a minimum increase of $30, and many of the PRO can OC to XT levels if you get the right kind (of course good XTs can overclock well beyond that.
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If you look around, and R9600Pro for $170 or so should be available in your region (as long as you're not isolated like RedDeer or Cranbrook or Something.
BTW, a plain jane R9600non-pro (not SE) would blow that FX5600XT out of the water, and they are selling for $142 on NCIX, and I've seen them for $129. But your best bet is a GOOD R9600PRO. If you want the temeprature moitoring and slightly better CORE (Low-K process) then the XT is the way to go, but it's usually a minimum increase of $30, and many of the PRO can OC to XT levels if you get the right kind (of course good XTs can overclock well beyond that.
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kinney
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*tisk tisk tisk*
I see excuses!
Point is, if you do find something that is subpar or broken.. fat chance getting them to release an update.
LOL, I can accept that you may not find it something ok to argue about.. but NV does have the best longterm support.
The whole broken, fixed, broken, fixed (or just never fixed) stuff with the newer drivers reminds me of days of old.
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I see excuses!
Point is, if you do find something that is subpar or broken.. fat chance getting them to release an update.
LOL, I can accept that you may not find it something ok to argue about.. but NV does have the best longterm support.
The whole broken, fixed, broken, fixed (or just never fixed) stuff with the newer drivers reminds me of days of old.
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pauldh
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But it is funny that the people who complain most on these forums about ATI's drivers are the people that don't own an ATI card and in some cases, never did. Same with long time support. How many problems have you found with older ATI cards that you couldn't find a fix for? or do you just enjoy bashing ATI? So why trash ATI for old card support then? Again, we have been through this before and I am most concerned with personal experience. I have sold or worked on loads of used systems even in recent months with older ATI cards. And no Kinney, not because I buy old hardware, but because I get old hardware as trades. Many people let me keep their old hardware when i upgrade there systems. Actually, I do this alot for friends and family as they save money and I reuse their old parts in cheap internet machines instead of charging labor for the upgrade. I'm just not quite sure what your personal beef is with ATI drivers and how they continue to let you down. If they are and I am not aware of it, I apologize and ask you share you problems and maybe there is an easy fix. But otherwise, it's just mindless bashing. Same with NVidia in my mind. I can't say I have noticed they are better or worse than ATI. They both simple haven't dissappointed me. Exactly what do you want to do with an ancient card that it's a driver issue that is stopping you? Or should they just continue to release newer drivers for no reason. Maybe help turn 2 fps into 2.5 fps. Yeah, that's worth their time. Both companies offer new driver updates for their Radeon/Gforce line. I really could care less if the latest drivers for the Rage Pro cards is from 2001. I see what you are saying, WHAT IF? But I really can't forsee what if happening; or at least it hasn't for me personally.
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