Confused

[Blackhawk3D]

I am pretty computer savvy, but when it comes to graphics cards I am pretty lame. . . I know the good ones but I don't know what to compare. I am looking at the ATI Radeon 9600Pro. In a review here it says that it will become the midrange gamer's champion because of it's 8 pipe design,but then in the benchmarks it is listed as 4x1 pipes. Help me out here. I want to play games such as Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Pandora Tommorrow (Have it) with resolutions higher than 800x600 on multiplayer. I have an NVidia FX 5200 and needless to say I need an upgrade. Help me choose the right middle priced card for today's high graphics games. I don't have a ton of cash to give out, my dad doesn't want to pay that much. I tried to talk him into the 9800pro but he just laughed at me (Darn).

 

[scottchen]

You may be able to get a FX5900XT for roughly the same price as a 9600pro, the FX5900XT will outperform the 9600pro in any test, since it has nearly triple the memory bandwidth.

-AMD Athlon64 3200+@2300mhz -GAK8N -3x512 Hynix PC3200 ram@192mhz 2.5-3-3-7 -Albatron 5900PV @ 509/1000 -SB Audigy -Adaptec 1210SA Raid -2x120G Seagate SATA150 7200.7 Raid0 -Enermax 460watt psu

 

[splenda20]

The 9600 series is a 4 pipe design, it was the 9500Pro that was 8 (my card, and it rocks!) I think it's near impossible to find a 9500Pro these days, I bought mine last May and it was already discontinued. You're right about the 9600Pro being a midrange champ! the XT offers better performance though, grab that if you can afford it.

<b>Disclaimer:</b> <i>the following is not intended to start another console vs PC war. What I'm about to say is based on my own personal experience and is specific to the game Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow</i>
I have played both the XBox and PC version of that game and the multiplayer version is far superior on the XBox. First of all, the game is very poorly optimized for the PC, it was designed as an XBox game first and foremost. It isn't difficult to see this as you can only customize the graphics for the PC version between Low, Med, and High, and change the resolution. There's no customizing each graphic effect, just overall detail.
Second, Ubisoft's matchmaking service is terrible, I don't know how to describe it other than my using obscene obsenities. Especially compare to the brilliant XBox Live service.
Thirdly, Graphically the Xbox version is superior (only making the comparison to my 9500Pro at 1024*768 with 2AA +4AF with details set to highest) The lighting and shadow effects look much better.
Fourth: XBox Live = everyone has voice support = strategizing with teammates and whispering death messages in the enemies ear before you snap their neck!
I know this wasn't the advice you were looking for, but if you're only looking to play SCT or a few other games, your money might be better spent on an XBox (price dropped to $149) rather than a new graphic card. Also keep in mind that an XBox version of <A HREF="http://www.gamepro.com/microsoft/xbox/games/features/34068.shtml" target="_new">Doom 3</A> is expected to be released shortly after the PC version (btw, although from the screens I've seen of the XB version, it'll probably look MUCH better on PC, that's not to say it won't look great on an XB, just better on PC)

Again, I just wanna restate that I'm not saying all XB/console games are better than PC, I just think Splinter Cell is.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

You will not find the FX5900XT for anywhere near an R9600PRO except somewhere where they don't drop their prices over time. If you search for deals, the R9600PRO should be $40-50 cheaper than the FX5900XT.

The FX5900XT is abetter choice for the long haul, but don't forget the R9800/pro showing up in that category now too for the premium you would be willing topay for the FX5900XT over an R9600PRO/XT. The question is exactly how muchh money do you have to spend?

A Sapphire R9600Pro can be had for <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?catalog=48&DEPA=1&submit=property&mfrcode=0&propertycodevalue=4808" target="_new">$126 US on NewEgg</A>, but the FX5900XT/SE/LX/EPL/etc is going for <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?catalog=48&DEPA=1&submit=property&mfrcode=0&propertycodevalue=5199" target="_new">$175US on NewEgg</A>, which equates to a $49 dollar difference. I would say that's very far from roughly the same price.

I HATE POwercolor, but you can get and R9800 for <A HREF="http://" target="_new">$170 at NewEgg</A>, and that's DEVIFINITELY a BETTER Choice than the FX. And if he's willing to pay a premium, then that's the card to get, despite it being PC OEM (as if AOPEN's much better with unspecified parts). And a retail PowerColor R9700Pro for <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?catalog=48&DEPA=1&submit=property&mfrcode=0&propertycodevalue=3048" target="_new">$179 on NewEgg</A> will wipe the floor with the FX5900XT in everything but Quake3. And a new Sapphire R9800PRO for <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?catalog=48&DEPA=1&submit=property&mfrcode=0&propertycodevalue=4632" target="_new">$206OEM aor $215 Retail at NewEgg</A> is definitely worth the premium if you're willing to pay $49 dollars more for an FX5900XT.

I don't think the FX5900XT is as much a bargain as it one was. Other prices have fallen too.

And your statement about it with the R9600Pro may be accurate, but it does have trouble against the R9600XT, and doesn't win in ANY test. Heck I bet the FX5900XT loses in some tests to the R9600PRo.

Look at Digit-Life's TombRaider Benchmarks even at 16x12 (FX is worse still at lower res.), the FX5900 series loses to the R9600Pro, despite that memory advanatge;

<A HREF="http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/digest3d/0204/itogi-video-traod-wxp-1600.html" target="_new">http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/digest3d/0204/itogi-video-traod-wxp-1600.html</A>

Same for Half-Life Beta;

<A HREF="http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/digest3d/0204/itogi-video-hl2-wxp-1600.html" target="_new">http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/digest3d/0204/itogi-video-hl2-wxp-1600.html</A>


Look at anything with advanaced pixel shaders and you see it lose, only once you DO use ONLY the raw memory bandwidth does the FX win all tests, and if you're runniing things with that detail, you should be running one of the ATI cards I listed that would actually get better/playable framerates at those settings.


To get a better feel of how close the two cards are look at [H]'smost recent review of the XT, and see how it doesn't offer much more than the R9600XT, at what is now usually a considerable price.

<A HREF="http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTk5" target="_new">http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTk5</A>

The FX5900XT had it's time, but now everything has dropped in price and the picture changes yet again.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK

 

[gwyn]

in the uk you can pick up a 9800pro for as little as £130

 

[Blackhawk3D]

Okay, thanks. As long as it is under $200. around 170 tops. I will search around, I was looking on Ebay and the 9800Pro was still going for around 210. I really want an 8 pipe card. I will try to find the 9800PRo for cheaper, maybe even help out with the price to get my dad to spring for it.

 

[GeneticWeapon]

Lol...what Grape said

<A HREF="http://rmitz.org/AYB3.swf" target="_new">All your base are belong to us.</A>
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=2216718" target="_new"><b>3DMark03</b></A>

 

[Willamette_sucks]

<A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?description=14-131-236&DEPA=0" target="_new">This card maybe?</A>

I know it says "SE" but I think thats just power colors naming, as it says 256bit and stock speeds are 380/340.

If all thats true, thats a kick ass deal!

Me: are you saying I can't provide?
Me: cause I know I can provide.
Me: oh and I can provide money too
Rachel: why do we need money when we can just stay in our room and have sex all day?

 

[scottchen]

Sorry ape, i'm not that familiar with retail prices in the US.

-AMD Athlon64 3200+@2300mhz -GAK8N -3x512 Hynix PC3200 ram@192mhz 2.5-3-3-7 -Albatron 5900PV @ 509/1000 -SB Audigy -Adaptec 1210SA Raid -2x120G Seagate SATA150 7200.7 Raid0 -Enermax 460watt psu

 

[HardWareBoss]

You have not sold that Amd rig of yours yet?

 

[scottchen]

I like it. It rules.

-AMD Athlon64 3200+@2300mhz -GAK8N -3x512 Hynix PC3200 ram@192mhz 2.5-3-3-7 -Albatron 5900PV @ 560/1000 -SB Audigy -Adaptec 1210SA Raid -2x120G Seagate SATA150 7200.7 Raid0 -Enermax 460watt psu

 

[endyen]

Ati has a trade-up program on now. You send them $199us and an old video card (pci or isa will do) and the send you a Radeon 9800 pro .<A HREF="http:// http://www.ati.com/buy/traderebate/tradeup.html " target="_new">http:// http://www.ati.com/buy/traderebate/tradeup.html </A> Sign up quick before it's over. (hope this link works, if not copy and paste)

 

[endyen]

Yah but you are dying to try one of the mobile A64s. I hear they clock to 2.7.

 

[Blackhawk3D]

Would getting the 256 mb make up for it only being a 4 pipe? Or would that even help? Also, is the retail box worth the extra money?

 

[Blackhawk3D]

What is the difference between all the different priced 128 mb Sapphires? They all look the same to me.

 

[GeneticWeapon]

your statement about it with the R9600Pro may be accurate, but it does have trouble against the R9600XT

@ overclocked speeds, the 9600Pro that you have, would have beaten the 9600XT that I had a while back. Given the choice again, I would have taken a 9600P with guarantee'd good memory over a 3.3ns 9600XT.

<A HREF="http://rmitz.org/AYB3.swf" target="_new">All your base are belong to us.</A>
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=2216718" target="_new"><b>3DMark03</b></A>

 

[Blackhawk3D]

Please answer my question, I can't decide on one if I don't know what the different prices denote.

 

[PukePile]

Look at what the description says then you will know what the differnce is.Differnces you might see are bulk, retail, OEM,and ulimate.Im not sure what the differnce between bulk and retail is.OEM mean it wont come with the extra cables and other stuff also usally it wont come with the standard warranty.I know with cpu's that are oem dont come with a heatsink but im not sure about gpu's. And the ulimate usally just comes with a better heatsink for over clocking.


Aquamark score of 34,306 Goal 38,000
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[pauldh]

Oem has all the cables, just no fancy box and no tomb raider angel of Darkness. I bought the retail Saphire, but only because the difference was $5 at the time. I am yet to install the AOD game. Oem is fine. Ultimate has a better/huge heatsink instead of the normal r9800pro fan. Memory is possibly better on the ultimate too?? The pictures and descriptions do show the differences.

I second the Built By ATI trade in though for $199 + tax I assume. I bought mine through Allstopshop. Newegg charges NJ tax now, and Gameve was out of stock.


ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt

 

[Crashman]

GRR, it's an SE!!! ALL 9500, 9600, 9700, 9800 chips are 256-bit. It doesn't say the MEMORY is 256-bit, just the processor. Even SE's have a 256-bit processor.

But it's a PowerColor, so it probably DOES use the old 9700 PCB, which has 256-bit RAM. Still locked down to 4 pipelines and with incredibly slow clock speeds compared to the 9600Pro or XT. Of course you can take a chance and try MODIFYING the driver to "turn on" the other 4 pipelines, but your chances of getting a working card from that are around 50/50.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

 

[Blackhawk3D]

Okay I get it now, I looked on ATI's website and the only 9800pro listed for the trade up is the AIW and still costs like 300 bucks or something.

 

[Blackhawk3D]

I meant the 256 Megabyte instead of the 128.

 

[phial]

You may be able to get a FX5900XT for roughly the same price as a 9600pro, the FX5900XT will outperform the 9600pro in any test, since it has nearly triple the memory bandwidth

not 100% true. not meaning to sound liek a broken record, but the 9600pros pixel shader performance is much better . something ot keep in mind, if you plan on picking up Half Life 2 soon, or Farcry .. or any other shader heavy game

-------
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[Blackhawk3D]

HEHE I like your link at the bottom Phial. I beat it though. I got them to leave.

 

[Crashman]

First of all, the "trade up" program is a bit of a scam, they actually accept ANY graphics card, even the old 512k ISA card you had in your 386. But they HOPE you'll send in a better card, to get the competition out of circulation. Rememeber the used high end cards of 2002 still outperform their low-end cards...

Anyway, back to the 9800 Pro. You don't have to look on ATI's site to get a "good deal", the best deals are usually found at major sites such as Newegg and ZipZoomFly.

Someone showed an add from Fry's electronics for a 9800XT at $188. That's a STEAL. Here's the order of the cards I'd get and the approximate discount site prices:
9600 Pro $130 (not Lite or EZ)
9600XT $150
9800 Non-Pro $180 (not SE)
9800 Pro $210

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
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