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FAR CRY ing out loud - reality check

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April 20, 2004 4:51:12 PM

FAR CRYing out loud!

========================
Performance and Gaming Reality Check
========================

I am going to trash THG review of Far Cry, so brace yourself. I will also further ponder the meaning of “system performance”. I hope that this will put minds of many at ease. Let’s start from the beginning.

<font color=green>About the reviewer:</font color=green>

I’ve been a gamer (and a computer professional) for the last 14 years. I bought my first game with my first 286 PC in 1990 and since then, I suppose, I’ve been buying 6-20 games per year depending on the year. Some years there are lots of good games and some years there aren’t. Between the games I own and the games lent to me by friends I would guesstimate that I’ve played and/or own 250+ games. That’s a lot of games, friends. In other words I know a thing or two about what makes games good or not so good.

<font color=green>About the system:</font color=green>

Acer Open full tower case, 350W PSU, 2 intake and 2 exhaust fans
ASUS P4T-E Slot 478 AGP4x motherboard
512Mb PC-800 RDRAM
Intel Pentium 4A/2.4GHz @ 2.8GHz
Currently o/c via BIOS, FSB 115, VCore 1.57, Stock cooling
eVGA GeForce FX5700 Ultra 128 Mb GDDR2
Currently o/c 535MHz Clock 1.00GHz VRAM, Stock cooling
Sound Blaster Live X-Gamer
3Com 10/100 Fast Ethernet
CD-ROM
24x CD-RW
Floppy
Microsoft Multimedia keyboard + Optical mouse combo
ViewSonic G200fb Graphics Series 21” CRT monitor
5.1 Sound system with 5 speakers and as sub-woofer
LinkSys router
Current Aquamark3 Score: 36,863

As you can see, the <font color=green>system used to test the game does not look very impressive: </font color=green>

Old AGP4x motherboard, mid-range CPU, lower mid-range video card, no aftermarket cooling or liquid cooling which could allow for further o/c, no hardware o/c via jumpers (resulting in PCI and AGP bus to be overclocked potentially leading to system instability), mid-range PSU, old sound card, etc.

INTRO

Everyone should do what they are good at. THG game reviews have disappointed me in the past and the Far Cry review is yet another disappointment. Do what you do best, Tom and Co. Hardware is your thing. Leave game reviews to those who do it best.

I am writing this as a warning to those poor gullible souls who, having read the THG review of Far Cry, are now saving up to buy this game. Hold on a second. You need to know the whole truth before you buy it.

Far Cry was conceived as a technology demonstrator for a graphics engine. It should have stayed exactly that – a technology demonstrator. Oh, wait. It actually did stay this way because while the game is extraordinarily gorgeous and succeeds in many other aspects, it is not a fun game to play.


PERFORMANCE

The game config detected my machine as “High”. (The possibilities are “Low”, “Medium”, “High” and “Very High”.)

The config suggested that

- The resolution be set at 1024x768
- All graphics and music be set as “High” (“Very High is the max possible”)
- Antialiasing OFF
- Anisotropic filtering OFF
- Texture Filter Quality Bilinear
- V-Sync OFF
- EAX/hardware sound mixing OFF
- Bodies stay 30 seconds

However, I decided to change some of the settings:

- Particle Count “Medium” instead of “High” (smoke/fog/explosions, etc. still look totally real)
- Shadows - Medium (Shadows look better at High)
- Special Effects - Medium (I did not notice any difference compared to High)
- Water - Medium (I did not notice any difference compared to High)
- AA to Low (=AA 2x) instead of none
- AF to 4x instead of none (4x AF is the maximum supported by the game BTW)
- Texture Filter Quality - Trilinear (instead of Bilinear)
- V-Sync ON instead of OFF.
- EAX/hardware sound mixing ON 5.1 Dolby Surround
- Bodies Stay 600 seconds (10 minutes) – this option typically increases complexity of the scenery, makes the system store extra information and reduces performance but I wanted the bodies of dead enemies to stay there long enough to make it is easier for me to find and loot them for weapons and ammunition).

As you can see, I turned up the visual settings quite a bit compared to the ones recommended for my system but at the same time I balanced them a bit by lowering some of the graphics settings to "Medium" as long as visually it made no difference. This effectively put my machine somewhere in the middle between “High” and the “Very high”. Hey, this is not too bad! But . . . how did it perform?

At these settings the game looks almost perfect and my frame rate dropped to around 18-22 only <font color=green>once</font color=green> in a brightly lit lab. This is weird and it looks like a code bug because the scenery in this location is not complex at all compared to other locations, like the Temple. Other than that I consistently get 40+ FPS even in the Temple where the textures are incredibly complex and life-like. In the jungle I get 40-80 FPS and over 80FPS on water. Initially, I made a mistake of turning mouse acceleration ON and that caused some very uneven frame rates and difficulty aiming on the move, but once I turned it off and reduced mouse sensitivity, the frame rate became smooth and even.

As always, I decided to see if the quality of the visuals would be drastically different if I turned it all to the maximum. I switched to 1280x1024 resolution and I set all graphics options to “Very High” (1600-1200 is out of the question unless all options are set to “Low”). He-he. My average frame rate dropped to around 12 FPS but this is irrelevant because the point was to see if the picture would look significantly better than with playable settings. The outcome? Yes, the game looked better, but not THAT much better.

So, hypothetically, if you ran this game at 1600x1200 at maximum graphics settings with playable FPS (read nVIDIA 6800 Ultra on a P4EE) and you assumed that *what you see* is 100% of the quality the game’s graphics engine is capable of then what *I* see with playable setting on my machine is about only 15-20% worse. Yet, everything is smooth, no jaggy staircase outlines even with only 2x AA.

The verdict is that if I can get 80%+ of possible Far Cry visual quality on *my* machine most of you guys with AGP 8x motherboards, nV5900XTs, nV5959s, R9800XTs or R9800PROs should relax. You can get 90% of the total visual quality with the same settings as mine, plus you can probably get good FPS (50+) at 1280x1024. I am confident that you and I can play DOOM3 and HL2 with excellent quality after balancing some graphic settings and compromising just a little bit.


THE GAME

<font color=red>Ratings</font color=red> (on a 1-10 scale – the greater the number, the better):

<font color=green>Graphics</font color=green> overall – 9.75

- Visual realism – 9.90 – it IS a game after all :smile:
- Animations – 10.00 - Breathtaking. You’ve never seen anything quite like this, wait, no, you did. In real life that is.
- Lighting – 10.00 - Breathtaking. You’ve never seen anything quite like this, wait, no, you did. In real life that is.
- Shadows – 10.00 . . . .
- Water – 10.00 . . . .
- Sky – <font color=red>6.00</font color=red> (Clouds don’t move. Period. And while the rest of the world looks alive and dynamic, the Sky looks totally static and lifeless. But the sun/sunlight and the moon/moonlight redeem the sky so I give it a 6.00, instead of 2.00).
- Artifacts – 9.00 (Would give it 10.0 but there are some artifacts and texture clipping in two missions immediately preceding the last mission. No, they are not the result of overclocking. My system is rock-solid and stable. A 14-day stress test at HIGHER o/c values has proven this but I since down-clocked the CPU and the GPU just a little to be on the safe side).

<font color=green>Sound</font color=green> overall – 5.25

- Aural realism/Dolby surround execution 5.00 (Sound panning is poorly done. It is often unclear, especially if you turn, where the sound is really coming from. This does not happen in other games, such as NOLF, for example.)
- Music – 4.00 (Musical score is primitive)
- Ambient Sounds – 8.00 (feels almost like you are there with bird, insect, leaves, water, etc. sounds)
- Sound effects – 4.00 (some are right on, others are muffled or exaggerated, it is impossible to tell how far the sound is, like you hear a monster growl, but it could be 5 or 50 feet away – you have no clue)
- Weapon sounds – 5.00 (play NOLF to find out what I mean)

<font color=green>Story</font color=green> – 2.00 (LAME! Primitive, unimaginative, annoying)

- Dialogue and Voice acting – 3.00 (most of the dialogue/conversation text is unimaginative and simply lame. The voice over for all the [talking] enemies is done by THE SAME GUY! And he is not even trying to sound differently. This is too lame for my taste!)

<font color=green>Fun factor</font color=green> – 2.00 (THE GAME IS NOT FUN! – see explanation below in game size. I give it 2.00 instead of 0.00 because the amazing beauty of this game does compensate for lack of playability)

<font color=red>Annoyance factor</font color=red> – 9.75 there is no save or quick save as such and each time you die you have to restart the whole level (see more below). Otherwise you have to use cheat codes. If you are like me at all <font color=red>you hate cheating (and cheaters) even in games</font color=red>. You play games at Normal difficulty because Easy means you are a cheater while “Masochistic”, or in the case of Far Cry “Realistic”, means the computer is cheating.

The game auto saves console-style at checkpoints. There is an undocumented cheat to save game via ~ console command but it is inconvenient at best.

<font color=green>Size of the game</font color=green> – <font color=red>VERY SMALL</font color=red> - total playtime for a an average player is 20 hours <font color=red>maximum</font color=red> INCLUDING the time wasted on endless reloads of failed missions.

*This game is not difficult. It is not challenging. <font color=red>IT IS STUPID.</font color=red>*

I don’t know about the “Easy” difficulty setting since I played at Medium (which is usually called “Normal”) but at this “Normal” difficulty you will have to reload many missions up to 30, 40, 50 times or more before you manage to get through.

<font color=green>Example:</font color=green> you start one of the missions in a dead end corridor against a “tank” armed with a rocket launcher. IF you are VERY lucky, at the start of this mission you will have full weapons, armor and health. But chances are you won’t . . . UNLESS you

1. Tried the “tank” mission, realized you NEED full everything;
2. Reloaded the previous mission, replayed it at least half a dozen times to make sure you DO have full weapons, armor and health for the next mission.

Now, the game saves the checkpoint about 3-4 minutes away from that “tank” encounter which means that if you die you have to reload, swim/crawl/climb for 3 minutes again before the tank kills you again. Reload. Repeat. Do this 20 times.

Finally, you get lucky and kill the “tank” but the fight leaves you with almost no health, no armor and, likely, no heavy weapon ammo. No biggie, you think, BUT there are four very fast, very tough enemies in the next room each of which can kill you in one hit even if you are at full health. The only way to deal with them is

1. To know that they are there in advance (which you will <font color=red>NOT</font color=red> know until you have dealt with the tank having reloaded the mission some 20 times).
2. To know how many of the enemies there are. (If you hold your breath and listen you may hear that there is something there in that room but not how many enemies)
3. To know that you need lots of grenades to toss into that room blindly.

Why? Because there are four of them. Shooting them is impossible. If you have few or no grenades – there is no way you are getting through this room even if you have full everything else which will not be the case after the “tank” encounter.

So, you figure, damn! I have no grenades. You reload the previous mission and go looking for grenades, but, in case you have not guessed it yet, – it is not easy to finish the previous mission with full armor and health, so you re-try it another half a dozen times. Phew! Great. You now have full everything AND you got grenades! 10 in the launcher and 5 frags! You are a tank (you think).

Not so fast, friend. You have to deal with the enemy “tank” again. YES! YOU GUESSED IT! You WILL have to reload the “tank” mission yet another 10+ times! This time it takes fewer reloads because your tank killing skill has been honed and polished to the extreme! Go-Go super soldier!

Oh, but how about the room after the “tank”? Chances are you will toss the grenades in there and one of the enemies will survive. . . it HAPPENED TO ME and it is likely to happen to you. And I got killed and so will you. And you start at the top of this post and redo the whole routine anew. Exciting, isn’t it? But this is not all.

Next in this beautifully designed mission you need to enter yet another room (the last one) to save Valerie. You open the door and you see her shooting at two or three monsters. Being a good gamer and a true hero you don’t want to toss grenades into this room because Valerie is there but at this point you have no idea that she is indestructible and cannot be killed. Well she CAN if you try very hard but if you kill her you instantly die yourself – GAME OVER! So you try to shoot the monsters and guess what? They go straight for you and you die instantly just like you did in the previous room before you figured out that instead of shooting you need to toss grenades. GOTCHA!!! Okay, here we go again: Restart the “tank” encounter and HAVE FUN!

I am not even going to go into the details of the mission where you are dropped from the helicopter into the middle of the jungle crawling with approximately 40+ various mutants most of which you cannot see while you have no armor and just one rifle with ten rounds in it. (It takes 20-200 rifle rounds to kill a single mutant unless you have a godly aim and every round you fire hits straight between the eyes.

Suffice it to say, that after 3+ hours of reloading this mission and trying this and that (including luring the monsters in the water since they cannot swim and drown while pursuing you) I got MAD, BROKE MY $300 high-back black leather office chair, gave up and restarted the game with the

-devmode

command line switch, and pressed “O” which gives you 999 rounds. Ha-ha! You would think that this solved the problem? Think again. I sniped as many monsters as I could from the cliff (maybe a dozen), then rode the waterfall down to the river since this is the only way to get off that cliff . . . and yes, you are a genius, you guessed it: I died soon after that. Anyhow, restarting the game with 999 rounds only took 3 or 4 attempts and I finally advanced to the next save/checkpoint which, by the way, is even stupider than the ones I’ve described above. The final boss mission is beyond stupid. The people who designed these missions deserve to be shot on sight or at least fired without severance. Sadists.

<font color=green>Game play and realism</font color=green> – an abysmal ONE, as in 1.00!

1. You can hide but you can’t hide. 85% of the time while you are prone, behind a tree with a huge boulder covering your back, deep down on the ground buried in 6-foot tall grass and cannot see $hit the enemies see you just fine . . . from up to 500 yards away . . . even without binoculars . . . and shoot you . . . from multiple directions . . .with inhuman precision. This is not enemy AI. This is bull$hit.

<font color=red>I have to give it to the game though, AI tactics and teamwork are incredibly realistic and even entertaining;</font color=red>

2. You can run but you can’t run away. You, the trained special forces super commando are a weakling. You walk like a cow, you run like an old fat 500lbs lady, you sprint like an old 300lbs lady and you cannot sprint for longer than 5-7 seconds. How many packs a day do you smoke, chump?

3. You can jump but you can’t really jump as you will kill yourself. Jumping off what looks in the game world like a 3-6-foot elevation will ALWAYS reduce your life bar by 40%+. Some commando YOU are! My Diablo 2 zero vitality sorceress has more red in her life orb than you and she can take 50 times more punishment!

4. Enemy mercs are suicidal. Yes, once I heard the last guy left alive yell “I will get help” and run away. But only once (well, maybe twice). The rest of the time mercs fight to the last man even if they have no chance (like if you are sniping them from a mile away they don’t panic and don’t run). They never give up. Say a group of six is advancing on your position you manage to kill 5 of them without taking damage yourself. The last guy does not run away, does not retreat or regroup. He keeps coming/maneuvering, hiding (tactician, my butt!) till you shoot him too.

5. You are strong, yet you are a wuss. You cannot carry anything, except weapons and ammo. You cannot pick up and carry any health packs which means that once you take damage you have to back-track to a location a mile away to pick up that med kit you saw earlier when you could not use it since you were at full health then. I suppose the game designers wanted to extend the total play time this way since it may take you up to 5 minutes to perform this feat. If you could only stock up on med kits and use them when needed, sort of Tomb Raider style, this would make the game SO MUCH MORE TOLERABLE!

Anyhow, there is a lot more to say about Far Cry, but <font color=green>the bottom line is</font color=green> that it is an outstanding technology demonstrator for out of this world, jaw-dropping graphics and animations. Nothing else. It should sell for $10.00 to cover the cost of the 5 CDs and packing to promote the graphics engine.

My gaming Hall of Fame

Privateer (the original one)
The entire Wing Commander series
Falcon 3.0Gold
Fleet Defender
Warcraft 2 +expansion
Starcraft + expansion
Master of Orion 2
Fallout
Fallout 2
European Air War (since I beta-tested it for Microprose for LAN playability and I am in the Credits! brag-brag)
System Shock (the original)
System Shock 2
Half-Life
Diablo
Diablo 2
Baldur’s Gate 1, 2 + Throne of Baal expansion (this game is perfection defined)
Total Annihilation
Unreal Tournament (the original only)
No One Lives Forever (the original only) NOLF 2 sucks
DeusEx
Neverwinter Nights (the original only)
Grand Theft Auto III
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City
Icewind Dale 2
Shogun Total War
Medieval Total War
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (this game is perfection defined)

These are some of the best games ever made if you haven’t yet, check them out. Many of them can be found for $9.99.

<font color=green>Stingy people end up paying double. One kick-ass rig that will go strong for three years or one half-decent one every year?</font color=green> :cool:

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Slava on 04/22/04 01:25 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
April 20, 2004 5:02:47 PM

A couple counterpoints:

1. That system looks plenty impressive to me. A 2.8 Ghz with a GeforceFX 5700? You put that video card in a 3.4Ghz monster and you might get a 5 fps increase in framerate. No big deal... that's a fine box you got there.

2. Agreed on the graphics, I have the luxury of owning a radeon 9500 PRO and being able to use PS 2.0 with the lighting model set to very high quality... wow. What a huge difference! And still super-playable (except in that lab - you're right, somethings up with that).

3. I'm a wuss, so I play the game on "easy"... it's plenty tough, but I don't have to reload a particularly tough checkpoint more than once or twice at worst. Game's plenty enjoyable this way though, you're far from indestructible. I suggest you give it a shot, might increase the enjoyment factor for you. Either that, or wait for the save game patch.

3. I disagree about the running. Who can run full-bore all the time? You might be tainted by half-life or UT where you can run 45 MPH at all times. I find the characters ability to run more than acceptable.

4. I totally agree about the jumping part, I should be able to slide down a mild 15 foot slope without taking 50% damage.

________________
<b>Radeon <font color=red>9500 PRO</b></font color=red> <i>(hardmodded 9500, o/c 340/310)</i>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>~2750+</b></font color=red> <i>(2400+ @2.2Ghz)</i>
<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>4,055</b>
April 20, 2004 6:32:44 PM

Quote:
3. I disagree about the running. Who can run full-bore all the time? You might be tainted by half-life or UT where you can run 45 MPH at all times. I find the characters ability to run more than acceptable.

He-he :smile: No, I did not mean to say that the player should be able to sprint all the time, but there is a WALK key (default is Z) try to run normally and then press Z and walk. I dare you to see any noticeable difference. There is even less difference between running and sprinting. At least I don’t really see any difference there except that my stamina bar runs out. No, really, I often times have no idea that I stopped sprinting and keep holding Shift until I notice that I have no more stamina left. Running is done badly and you cannot convince me otherwise. This would not be such a huge problem if you did not have to often resort to sprinting into the water with mutants on your six because God forbid you dive for just a second with your stamina depleted you immediately take irreversible “health” damage which can only be repaired with a med kit . . . At the very least, since you are such a secret weapon, stamina recovery rate should be doubled. This way you will not be able to run all the time like a nuclear- powered terminator but you won’t find yourself completely helpless as often as you do.

You know, it would be much better if the game felt sort of like Rambo movies. Now THAT guy was capable of some feats while you in Far Cry are not.

I will try the game at the “Easy” difficulty setting, as you suggest, simply because I can’t get enough of its graphics (I am a sucker for good graphics).


<font color=green>Stingy people end up paying double. One kick-ass rig that will go strong for three years or one half-decent one every year?</font color=green> :cool:
Related resources
April 20, 2004 6:59:40 PM

Quote:
1. You can hide but you can’t hide. 85% of the time while you are prone, behind a tree with a huge boulder covering your back, deep down on the ground buried in 6-foot tall grass and cannot see $hit the enemies see you just fine . . . from up to 500 yards away . . . even without binoculars . . . and shoot you . . . from multiple directions . . .with inhuman precision. This is not enemy AI. This is bull$hit.

Don't get offended by me saying this, but I've heard enough of this bull$hit from gamespot, if you suck at a game don't blame it for being hard. I didn't find the problem you were talking about, especially on easy, i'm currently going through the game on normal, currently on the cooler map, and AI doesn't really piss me off. I'm sure if you play on vetern or realistic it'll be insane, since the AI would probably have heat seeking bullets, and matrix bullet dodging skills. But that's because you want to challenge the almost impossible, but if you're playing on normal, the AI's not bull$hit, snipers will nail you if you don't kill them first, so I'm not sure what specific map or part you're talking about that the AI's insane.

<A HREF="http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/myrig.php?do=view..." target="_new">My PC</A>
April 20, 2004 7:29:51 PM

I agree with everytthing but the KOTOR part...

A long long time ago, but I can still remember, how that music used to make me smile... <A HREF="http://www.nexus.hu/zonix/DIGGER.MID" target="_new"><b><font color=blue>Digger rulz</font color=blue></b></A>
April 20, 2004 7:31:42 PM

And the pun in the post title.


A long long time ago, but I can still remember, how that music used to make me smile... <A HREF="http://www.nexus.hu/zonix/DIGGER.MID" target="_new"><b><font color=blue>Digger rulz</font color=blue></b></A>
April 20, 2004 7:35:36 PM

I totally agree with the guy... this game has some serious problems...

hmmmmm i totally prefer the mind-less pain killer and x2

Athlon 2700xp+ (oc: 3200xp+ with 200fsb) , Radeon 9800pro (oc: 410/370) , 512mb pc3200 (3-3-3-2), Asus A7N8X-X
April 20, 2004 7:43:17 PM

Scottchen,

I could give you many examples, but how about the mission after that helicopter drop (the “survival of the fittest” one)? I mean when you navigate around molten lava.

There are mutant gunners everywhere (I counted five). You can more or less easily see one on the road to the right. To see others you need to first get past the rocket tanks or kill them. Funny thing is that the gunners see and engage you when you are fighting tanks even though YOU cannot see them even with your scope. I mean you look at the right spot but they don’t draw cuz you are too far away. Yet they see and shoot you with ease.

Again we have a SOUND problem here. If you look at the numbers in your scopes and binoculars you will see that they indicate the distance in meters to the target. All firefights in this particular areas take place at ranges of 300 meters or less. You know? If someone fired a machine gun at me from 300 meters away I would hear where it is coming from. Yet you get pounded from every direction, you look and you look and you look and you look and you look more and you see nothing. The only way I could effectively figure out where the mofo is would be to stand up and try to see from where the tracers are coming.

Also there are mercs here. But funny thing is that mercs being attacked by rocket tanks drop everything they are doing and start shooting you once they see you. Oh, wait, the tanks do the same! It is like their firefight was just for fun, but now that YOU are here let’s do it for real. You call this AI?

Anyhow, I am not about to argue with you or anyone else for that matter, nor will I stoop to your level and trade insults with you regarding who sucks and who does not. But I will say this: everything is measured by comparison. Compared to challenging yet fun games with great stories and many hours of game play and a great replay value Far Cry loses miserably.




<font color=green>Stingy people end up paying double. One kick-ass rig that will go strong for three years or one half-decent one every year?</font color=green> :cool:
April 20, 2004 7:45:19 PM

I only messed with the demo a couple of times. I liked it over all as a game :-) no quick save kind of sucked.

But what convinced me not to buy was no joy stick support. That just bites... I hate keyboard games too cumbersome for my liking.

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
April 20, 2004 7:53:02 PM

interesting


i really enjoyed Toms review of that game, it was really written well to be entertaining and interesting


but then again, an artist can describe a pile of sh!t with detail and creativity as well

good to hear the other side of far cry, i almost bought it because of the review, but perhaps ill read a little more before i do ^^

-------
<A HREF="http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/you.html" target="_new">please dont click here! </A>
<A HREF="http://www.subhi.com/keyboard.jpg" target="_new">This is you, interweb junky</A>
April 20, 2004 7:59:15 PM

A couple strategies:

1- When mercs and trigens are fighting, wait & hide until they finish as many as each other off as possible before venturing forth. It makes life alot easier.

2- Stealth, stealth, stealth. Keep a close eye on your stealth meter, stay in the bushes. Stay prone and find EVERYONE with your binoculars before engaging, so they'll show up on your radar for the rest of the game even when you're not paying attention to them. LOOK HARD for a way around the enemy to get a better position... there is almost always a way to do that.
This isn't UT2004. Rushing in + shooting = death.

3- Whenever possible, pick off enemies one at a time using the silent SMG. If you can kill them before they get a shot off, none of their allies will be alerted.

________________
<b>Radeon <font color=red>9500 PRO</b></font color=red> <i>(hardmodded 9500, o/c 340/310)</i>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>~2750+</b></font color=red> <i>(2400+ @2.2Ghz)</i>
<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>4,055</b>
April 20, 2004 8:01:10 PM

you play fps with a joy stick?????????

wpdclan.com cs game server - 64.246.52.144:27015
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April 20, 2004 8:08:21 PM

Well I can't say I play too many fps games. but if I got to move around via keyboard I loose all interest. I'm a one finger typist at the best of times.

Is halflife2 going to be keyboard only?

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
April 20, 2004 8:23:51 PM

others would disagree, but i say you are at an extreme disadvantage using a joystick. one specific example is unreal tournament. there are power moves where you tap left to get a power assisted jump to the left. same for all other movements. do you at least use the mouse to aim?

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April 20, 2004 8:36:51 PM

Pobabaly, but like I said I'm all thumbs on a key board. Did I aim with a mouse? I thought that was the only way you could aim in far cry.

Do you think halflife2 will be keyboard only like farcry?

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
April 20, 2004 8:37:24 PM

I can't imagine playing a FPS with a joystick. Flight sim, sure... but not a FPS... you just don't get the precise movement you need in a FPS with a joystick.

Once I got used to using the mouse / keyboard combo in FPS, I never looked back. I still have my joystick for games like BF: 1942 and BF: Vietnam where you can use aircraft. Other than that, a joystick is useless to me.


<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>
April 20, 2004 8:44:07 PM

Quote:
Well I can't say I play too many fps games. but if I got to move around via keyboard I loose all interest. I'm a one finger typist at the best of times.


That's the thing... when playing a FPS via the keyboard, you're really only using one finger at a time. (For most of them anyway). It's just a simple matter of remapping keys if you don't like the usual W, A, S, D. The reason I don't use the arrow keys is because my hands would be too close together, making playing uncomfortable.

<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>
April 20, 2004 9:05:50 PM

Well maybe I should start to practice then. I do have cordless mouse keyboard all the halflife games although I have not used them yet (came with video card) personally I like morrowind that thing rocks and works well with a joy stick.

If I glanced at a spilt box of tooth picks on the floor, could I tell you how many are in the pile. Not a chance, But then again I don't have to buy my underware at Kmart.
April 20, 2004 10:06:17 PM

ok, i thought you were one of those that use the joystick exclusively. THAT is rediculous. i dont know if half life 2 will have support for a joystick or not. doesnt matter to me really, unless im flying a plane or somthing.

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April 20, 2004 10:16:15 PM

Quote:
A couple strategies:

1- When mercs and trigens are fighting, ....

:smile: Thanks, for the help, bro, but I hope I will not offend you by saying that you did not exactly break any news to me. I still appreciate the thought and the desire to be of help. All your strategies are valid and I figured them out on my own. It was not hard since this annoying Doyle character on the communicator basically tells you all this.

The only exception is waiting it out when mercs and mutants fight. I discovered this by accident and the spectacle is, indeed, entertaining.

However, there is a big BUT: If you wait for the mercs and mutants to kill each other off you can wait for a very, VERY long time. It gets boring. Really.

About moving when prone, your guy moves SOOOooooo excruciatingly slowly . . . don’t know about you, but my W finger begins to hurt after a few dozen meters. You know, when I was in the army they taught us how to move while prone. You can do this both very slowly AND very fast. But this is a GAME for crying out loud :lol:  . It is supposed to be enjoyable. If you play 100% stealth you will end up sitting in the bushes forever. This game is either brutally fast and dynamic or painfully slow and uneventful – there is nothing in the middle.

Hey, anyhow, as with any game there always will be those who love it and who hate it. I posted my write-up since I found THG review lacking objectivity. It briefly mentions that you will have to reload a lot while what it should have said about this is that this game is likely to frustrate the hell out of you.



<font color=green>Stingy people end up paying double. One kick-ass rig that will go strong for three years or one half-decent one every year?</font color=green> :cool:
April 20, 2004 10:33:50 PM

Quote:
interesting

i really enjoyed Toms review of that game, it was really written well to be entertaining and interesting

He-he :o ) I enjoyed the THG review too... but then I went out and bought Far Cry .....................


<font color=green>Stingy people end up paying double. One kick-ass rig that will go strong for three years or one half-decent one every year?</font color=green> :cool:
April 21, 2004 12:36:46 AM

No offence taken, it all comes down to playstyle I guess.

But I personally like this game because it's very open-ended. You can play stealth, or you can play guns blazing, or you can combo it up as per your mood (my style).

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April 21, 2004 1:37:06 AM

you're complain about the bad sound when u only got a Sound blaster Live? come back and talk to me about sound when u have an audigy 2.
Artifacts? that's your own problem, don't blame the game. If you are running Windows XP there is no rock solid computers, blame Microsoft.
Also what u feel about the story we dont really care. I find having auto save point much more challenging, if you like it, again, not our problem.
Also, dont say 1600x1200 is not much better if u dont try it. What you are saying is that there is no point of getting a high-end video card. There is a reason and a 6800Ultra will have much faster framerate than your FX5700

There are things that are not perfect in this game, but there is no perfect game (except Final Fantasy)
:D 

this is pretty much an unprofessional review, because you wrote the review in your perspective, and no one give a F&*( what your opinion is. so STFU GTFO AND DCBA

I love far cry :D 

RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
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GeForce 6800 Ultra--> The Way we thought FX 5800Ultra is meant to be played
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a b U Graphics card
April 21, 2004 1:38:07 AM

Wow, while the game isn't perfect, I think it is a blast to play and right now it's my favorite game. The large open maps make it a blast to choose how you want to plan your attack.

First, I think the original topic starter's graphics settings are cranked way too high for that system. I'd say turn off AA/AF and set everything to medium, maybe water on high. Then try it. You are playing alot higher than me on with an overclocked R9800pro and mobile XP2500+ @ 2.4GHZ. I did extensive testing with fraps and tweaked mine to where I get as much eye candy as possible while maintaining totally smooth play. And I keep fraps on while playing it too. Almost never do I drop below 40fps, and most of the time it is 50-100 fps. Also I forget your specs, but it seems you need 1GB of ram for totally smooth play.

Anyway, I am on level 18 now. Playing at normal difficulty, and I don't find it overly hard. Not at all. One of my buddies is a level behind me and he is enjoying it too, although struggling a bit more in some spots that I suspect is from lower framerates on his P4-2.4C/Ti4200/512MB ram.

No offense meant by any of this, but to me this game is more than worth the money for the single player alone. I haven't had a single hiccup yet. Although I am yet to try multiplayer, but I hear that is not as good. I just felt it necessary to share a positive gaming experience for the two people I know who own it. The save feature is a bit lame, but honestly doesn't get on my nerves much. It extends the playing time compared to saving after each battle. There wer only two spots that I had to repeat over 3 times to get by it. The worst for me was the boat level, on the sinking ship trying to shoot down the helicopter. That took me at least 8 tries.



ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Pauldh on 04/20/04 09:44 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
a b U Graphics card
April 21, 2004 1:43:17 AM

Yeah, I pretty much love farcry too. This whole topic surprised me. Anyone with an R3xx seemed to be floored by the demo, and the retail game is level after level of gameplay as good as the demo IMO. I will say that the demo to me was a big dissapointment on a extremely overclocked TI4200 after playing it on an R9800 pro. Just didn't at all look/play the same.



ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
April 21, 2004 1:53:53 AM

ya, let's pound this guy! :D :D :D 

RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
120% nVidia Fanboy+119% Money Fanboy
GeForce 6800 Ultra--> The Way we thought FX 5800Ultra is meant to be played
THGC's resident Asian and nVboy :D 
a b U Graphics card
April 21, 2004 1:57:37 AM

LOL :lol: 

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
April 21, 2004 2:07:16 AM

It feels just like every other FPS game i've played. There's frag and strategy. For a strategy FPS, the graphics rock, sounds pretty good and i do love the open maps.
I bought it and sold it already. The AI isn't good.. just cheap. But.. it just wasn't that fun for me.

I've been plagued with an anti video game bug lately. Every game i've been playing hasn't been that great.
MMORPG's have all sucked in the last 2 years. They are all clones of eachother. FPS's are feeling the same way, and the only thing i care about it Multiplayer in FPS's.
RTS's are just terrible , opinion only.

I can't even get into RPGs like I used to. I used to love FF"s then FF8 happened.. ever since then i can't play them anymore.

Give up on life time. :( 

<A HREF="http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?run=277124623" target="_new">http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?run=277124623...;/A>
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a b U Graphics card
April 21, 2004 2:17:05 AM

I feel sorry for you. Maybe breakout an old game like Starcraft and see if you remember what it is like to have fun while gaming. :eek:  With my limited gaming time nowadays, I thoroughly enjoy almost every minute when i do get to play. Until farcry came out, I was even enjoying playing through my $9.99 Unreal 2 purchase from a few months ago. I was almost done and feel maybe I should start it up again and finish it.

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
April 21, 2004 3:03:34 AM

I think its just not your game. I mean there seem to be an overwhelming people that tend to agree with the reviews it gets. Personally I don't think that its really that innovative besides the graphics. No I don't own the game, I played it at the local cafe.

Maybe its just you that finds it hard(not saying you suck). There are just some games that certain people find extremly hard(though I must comment you on the patience you had). Take metal slug, I can't last through the second board on one quarter, yet there are some people that can beat the game on just one.

What one may find innovative is another's garbage. GTA3, I don't even understand how it got all the raving 9+ reviews. The game is soooooo boring. Yea its fresh for about the first 10 min. Then its rinse and repeat. Steal car, kill someone, get money. Yippie, real fun game...
April 21, 2004 4:01:56 AM

It's been years since I've played a game that looks so damn good that sometimes I can't believe what I'm seeing on-screen... perhaps not since GLQuake... or the Doom3 Alpha... the visual quality and the physics engine are very cool. Finally there is a game that actually exploits the features offered on NV30 and R300. I do agree that the gameplay and so-called AI are miserable at times. Sometimes Far Cry seems like nothing more than a showcase for pixel shaders, and I don't think that the program was well-written because of the inconsistent performance. It's cool, but I'm holding out for Doom and Half Life. After that, I'll decide on whether I should keep wasting my time on videogames...
April 21, 2004 4:26:46 AM

You should try painkiller then. thats a fun romp serious sam style. great physics too.

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April 21, 2004 5:03:05 AM

I totally disagree with you Slava. I LOVE Far Cry single player!!!!!!!!! (Havn't tried multi yet). So far, the best single player game I've played since Half-Life.

Go hump a dead rabbit.

Me: are you saying I can't provide?
Me: cause I know I can provide.
Me: oh and I can provide money too;)
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April 21, 2004 6:09:28 AM

Although you do have some good points in your review, I have to disagree to your perspective of the game. This is not Serious Sam. You can go guns blazing in SS style, but you will end up biting the ground most of the time. The single player reminded me more about Deus Ex (first one, not the sequel), as you generally have to take a good look around to find the best position to engage the bad guys (and also you could not save anywhere you liked in Deus Ex). Try using the stones (in the grenade slots), they're especially efective on trigens :wink: . Take your time to discover where the bad guys are (the microphone in the binocular is a very good tool, you can hear trigens growl and soldiers chat even if you can not "lock" to them, being hidden). Ambush your enemies, or snipe them from midrange using the single fire from your M16 (I think it was M16). Engage them, then disengage and retreat to a choke point where they cannot hide or take alternate routes (most areas have this kind of points). Use your imagination as much as your guns :wink:

Don't get me wrong, Far Cry is not the perfect game, it still has flaws, and some things leave much room for improvement, but it is NOT by far the crappy game you described. I am also a quite experienced gamer, wrote a few reviews myself, and I'm not easily impressed by a game. Yet, Far Cry, in my opinion, is one of the best things that happened since Half-Life.

*sigh* Damn, I miss the firefights with the white-cammo commando guys from HL... Are we going to see such things again?

"I cannot give you a brain, but I can give you a diploma"
- The Wizard of Oz, talking to the Scarecrow
April 21, 2004 9:09:53 AM

For me Farcry is an interesting diversion for a while, but I think THG goes too far, implying it's a landmark game (maybe landmark in terms of graphics, but certainly not gameplay).

Let me explain. When I first purchased, for example, Deus Ex (the original, natch, the sequel looks awful) I couldn't think about anything else. At work I counted the minutes before I could go home to play it. I would fall asleep pondering my choice of upgrades. The game was truly involving - seminal. Farcry does not compete with that. It's a beautiful game, sure, but not a landmark in videogames.

Oh, and seeing as we're talking about when we've been gaming since...

@r|<us teH oRiGiNaL ::atari combat:: fAnBoY!


<A HREF="http://forums.btvillarin.com/index.php?act=ST&f=41&t=27..." target="_new">My Rigs</A><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by arkus on 04/21/04 05:11 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
April 21, 2004 9:22:32 AM

You make valid points really, but I have to say you're just dead wrong in some parts. e.g.:
Quote:
*This game is not difficult. It is not <b>challenging.</b> IT IS STUPID.*

I found it challenging - but maybe that's because I selected the 'Challenging' difficulty level? :tongue: Besides, I don't see how you can say it's not difficult and then talk about having to re-do parts loads of times. if that doesn't mean you found it too difficult, what does?

I found it quite refreshing to not have the old Quicksave option. Some games with said option Just end up being equally annoying - walk 10 feet, quicksave, walk 10 feet, quicksave, etc. It's almost cheating really. I thought the save checkpoints were spaced quite fairly around (generously even), and if you found yourself getting killed over and over and over again, then you are obviously going about things the wrong way.

An example: you talk about the mission where you start with 10 rounds. This took only a couple of attempts, because it was obvious that killing everything was not a realistic option, so why bother? running away until a mounted gun became available was a much better option. It's just a question of approach.

On the whole, I thought it was fun to play. Someone above suggested Painkiller was more fun. I couldn't disagree more - I played through 3 levels of the painkiller demo and it was MORE than enough. I was bored stiff. Repetitive and bland.

I haven't even read the THG review, by the way - I can't see the point as I own the game... And their reviews are usually crap and a good month out of date anyway.

---
Epox 8RDA+ rev1.1 w/ Custom NB HS
XP1700+ @205x11 (~2.26Ghz), 1.575Vcore
2x256Mb Corsair PC3200LL 2-2-2-4
Sapphire 9800Pro 420/744
April 21, 2004 11:31:17 AM

Wow! you sure like to honk your own horn. You show a high of 50+, but where are the lows? I won’t even play the game because of the unacceptably FPS and I have a P4 2.8 @ 3.3 and a 9800 P. Before you say my system isn’t tweaked. I’ll boldly say, unless something is wrong with your system tweaking doesn’t do miracles. It might help smooth out the edges, but does not produce great results at least compared to upgrading. I get 25-50 FPS in Farcry and the encounters are unacceptable play. I don’t care to know all the answer at this time, but even the 6800 U showed low FPS at 22-33 and 47. The 22-33 I would say is not very good game play at all. I don’t think I’ll be buying the 6800 U to play Farcry and don’t need the insane FSP in my other games. I also ant up on Doom III or HL II and will be interesting to see how the cards play them. In an half a$$ way about the graphics are taking a turn for the better and I wonder if the new cards coming out can handle them and so far don’t see any cards able to play Farcry well.
April 21, 2004 1:17:47 PM

am I the only one to play Far Cry in 1024, all details max, and max AA and AF, at more-than-decent fps (above 30-40)?I have a Radeon 9800Pro (at stock speeds), 512 DDR and an Athlon XP 1700+ o/c-ed at 1750 MHz... nothing too impressive... Am I missing something here?

"I cannot give you a brain, but I can give you a diploma"
- The Wizard of Oz, talking to the Scarecrow
April 21, 2004 1:33:57 PM

I have no problems playing Farcry Either, apart from the odd lag while it loads stuff off the disk.

I don't understand why all these people claim to be having problems either. It runs fine and looks beautiful on my machine.

---
Epox 8RDA+ rev1.1 w/ Custom NB HS
XP1700+ @205x11 (~2.26Ghz), 1.575Vcore
2x256Mb Corsair PC3200LL 2-2-2-4
Sapphire 9800Pro 420/744
April 21, 2004 1:44:40 PM

heh, your system is almost identical to mine :wink: . Just my 9800 Pro is Hercules, and the ram is Infineon. Maybe we hit the lucky combination? :lol: 

"I cannot give you a brain, but I can give you a diploma"
- The Wizard of Oz, talking to the Scarecrow
April 21, 2004 1:50:36 PM

Athlon 64? Bah. Give me a 1700+ every time! :lol: 

---
Epox 8RDA+ rev1.1 w/ Custom NB HS
XP1700+ @205x11 (~2.26Ghz), 1.575Vcore
2x256Mb Corsair PC3200LL 2-2-2-4
Sapphire 9800Pro 420/744
April 21, 2004 2:17:52 PM

Quote:
and also you could not save anywhere you liked in Deus Ex

Wrong. As a matter of fact, yesterday I reinstalled the original DeusEx because THAT’S how good shooters are made and believe you me: you can save anywhere AND there is a quick save/quick load key – NUM plus and NUM / , respectively.

Quote:
When I first purchased, for example, Deus Ex (the original, natch, the sequel looks awful) I couldn't think about anything else. At work I counted the minutes before I could go home to play it.

Exactly!. I could not have said it better myself. It seems that those who adamantly disagree with my harsh criticism of Far Cry simply don’t have a solid basis for comparing the quality and fun factor of game play.

As I said before: everything is measured by comparison. If you are the only guy in town with a car, no matter how mediocre, you RULE and your vehicle OWNS. But once you drive to a fancy country club and all cars in the parking lot there are Jaguars, BMWs and such, suddenly, your wonderful Corolla becomes lame. If I had nothing to pit Far Cry against I would say “Damn! What a masterpiece!” But I do own 250 games. I can’t wait for the CGW review of Far Cry. After 10+ years of subscribing to CGW I disagreed with their reviews only 2-3 times. They are usually right on. Watch them trash Far Cry. I predict 3 out of 5 stars. Well, maybe 3.5 stars simply because the game is so incredibly good-looking.

Quote:
I found it challenging - but maybe that's because I selected the 'Challenging' difficulty level? Besides, I don't see how you can say it's not difficult and then talk about having to re-do parts loads of times. if that doesn't mean you found it too difficult, what does

:lol:  When I said it was not challenging or difficult and called it stupid I meant it as a sarcastic remark (pity you did not get it). I will explain: Challenging means that you are presented with problems that are not easy to solve but if you play smartly you will most likely succeed. In Far Cry, unless you spend a real-life hour moving one inch at a time and scanning every inch of the area to locate all enemies you will die and have to reload because no matter what you do you will never spot all enemies and once you think it is safe to get up and move 10 yards someone or something will kill you instantly (I am exaggerating a bit but you know damn well what I mean). Having to reload 15 times per hour (that’s every 4 minutes or so) is not challenging. It is stupid . . .

Quote:
I have a P4 2.8 @ 3.3 and a 9800 P. Before you say my system isn’t tweaked. I’ll boldly say, unless something is wrong with your system tweaking doesn’t do miracles. It might help smooth out the edges, but does not produce great results at least compared to upgrading. I get 25-50 FPS in Farcry and the encounters are unacceptable play

Well, something is very wrong with your system. I did not lie about Far Cry performance on my machine or the settings I play it at. You probably have insufficient cooling and your o/c machine runs way too hot. This will slow it down and may even make it crash . . .

Quote:
am I the only one to play Far Cry in 1024, all details max, and max AA and AF, at more-than-decent fps (above 30-40)?I have a Radeon 9800Pro (at stock speeds), 512 DDR and an Athlon XP 1700+ o/c-ed at 1750 MHz... nothing too impressive... Am I missing something here?

No, you are not missing anything. What you say sounds about right and confirms my performance conclusion that ppl with R9800 PROs and such are set for at least another year and even HL2... The guy with the P4 2.8 @ 3.3 quoted above probably does not know that often times overclocking may cause the performance TO DROP depending on the overall balance of components in the box or if not done right.

What can I say, the POINT IS that THG review makes this game sound near perfect and MUST HAVE. It says that this is the kind of game you will remember 10 years from now and recall it with a soft smile of sweet nostalgia on your lips. NO YOU WON’T. The THG review is wrong and lacks objectivity.

<font color=red>I ADMIT THAT MY REVIEW IS NOT OBJECTIVE EITHER.</font color=red> But if you read the THG review and my review side by side you WILL get the complete picture of what is perfect about this game and what is terrible about it. Like it or hate it, buy it or not buy it – THIS is up to you. But if you pull your hair out after the 100th reload don’t say you were not warned.

Adios, amigos. I am not posting in this thread any more. Oh, and by the way, when was the last time any of you wrote up a sticky or a review motivated by the desire to help fellow board users? My writings may be imperfect, but at least I tried . . . So instead of trashing my posts go ahead and write something worthwhile yourselves.


<font color=green>Stingy people end up paying double. One kick-ass rig that will go strong for three years or one half-decent one every year?</font color=green> :cool:

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Slava on 04/21/04 11:20 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
April 21, 2004 2:21:55 PM

So he says the retail game stinks. I have demo great game. I can't see the retail game being crummier than the demo.
April 21, 2004 2:23:56 PM

Props to Slava for posting his review. I found it to be an interesting and debateworthy piece.

Not to be too self-righteous, but I think he has a bit of a point. I think some of you guys took it personally that he didn't love Far Cry and responded out of emotion instead of thoughtfulness.

It's just an opinion, folks; everyone has one. There's no right or wrong.

________________
<b>Radeon <font color=red>9500 PRO</b></font color=red> <i>(hardmodded 9500, o/c 340/310)</i>
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<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>4,055</b>
April 21, 2004 3:04:41 PM

Hey, I didn't take it personally, Just gave a couple of my own opinions in counterpoint to his. :smile: Everyone has their own ideas in what they want from a game.

Me for instance, I don't like serious SAM - it bores the hell out of me. Wave after wave of the same monsters.. But others love the game. Horses for courses.

---
Epox 8RDA+ rev1.1 w/ Custom NB HS
XP1700+ @205x11 (~2.26Ghz), 1.575Vcore
2x256Mb Corsair PC3200LL 2-2-2-4
Sapphire 9800Pro 420/744
April 21, 2004 3:12:21 PM

Quote:
So instead of trashing my posts go ahead and write something worthwhile yourselves.

I actually find this comment a little irritating. :frown: I may not have any stickies to my name, but the vast majority of what I post is in response to questions from others, or suggestions. I do my best to help people where I think I can.

So the suggestion that I don't say anything worthwhile is insulting. I think your sticky is a good and useful thing, but stupid comments like that I think are ill-thought out and liable to just get under people's skin.

I wasn't attempting to 'Trash your post'. Was just giving my own views, is all.

---
Epox 8RDA+ rev1.1 w/ Custom NB HS
XP1700+ @205x11 (~2.26Ghz), 1.575Vcore
2x256Mb Corsair PC3200LL 2-2-2-4
Sapphire 9800Pro 420/744
April 21, 2004 3:24:50 PM

Quote:
So the suggestion that I don't say anything worthwhile is insulting.


My apologies. I know that many guys here answer questions and give good advice. I asked myself and I got good advice. I hope that those who KNOW that they are there for others will not take the comment personally. You and guys like you know better than that. Forgive me if I don't list the names of all those at whom my original comment was directed.

<font color=green>Stingy people end up paying double. One kick-ass rig that will go strong for three years or one half-decent one every year?</font color=green> :cool:

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Slava on 04/21/04 11:25 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
April 21, 2004 3:29:28 PM

No offense taken, it was just a bit ill-thought out :smile: ..

I thought you said you wouldn't post again? :wink:

---
Epox 8RDA+ rev1.1 w/ Custom NB HS
XP1700+ @205x11 (~2.26Ghz), 1.575Vcore
2x256Mb Corsair PC3200LL 2-2-2-4
Sapphire 9800Pro 420/744
April 21, 2004 3:55:20 PM

:lol:  Dammit. You got me! But how could I not apologize for offending a forum veteran? No, I had to reply to that.

<font color=green>Stingy people end up paying double. One kick-ass rig that will go strong for three years or one half-decent one every year?</font color=green> :cool:
!