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ATI?? NVIDIA?? please help!!!!!

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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June 12, 2004 4:47:20 PM

Hello everyone!!
I just need to upgrade my video card (MSI gf4 4800se) to a better one but not the high end.
I was made my choose for the BFG FX5900XT OC and was pretty exited to get that new card, i check some benchs and it has a great performance.....BUT!!!!.......
I jus note that i can get ATI9800pro for just 20 dlls more, then my head is blowing now cause i dont know what to choose.
I know 9800pro is older but ive seen its better than nvidiaXT in DX9 or AA and AF.
Im a 3D user (VIZ, MAX) but im also a gamer.
So i need both a very good DX9 (have far cry and waiting for HL2 and DOOM) and very good OPENGL, thats why im a little affraid about ATI, cause my GF4 runs much better than 9600XT(on better PC)on MAX and VIZ.
Then i dont know if it will happens with 9800 about the OpenGL in MAX cause i havent found benchmarks compairing both cards in this aspect.
Please can somebody help me to make a choose, or just telling me if openGL on ATI competes with NvidiaFX.
THANKS!!

More about : ati nvidia

June 12, 2004 5:03:30 PM

ATI can't compete with nV in Ogl, the card ya haev right now is good keep it, wait for the mid to lower end cards for the next lines (6800 and x800) to come out and buy then.


Btw the next WHQL driver release from nV rumors of the 15 of this month, is good for the fx line too gives a nice boost.
June 12, 2004 5:25:47 PM

Thanks for the Ogl tip Entium but...may i wait?? may i be able to get a midrange 6800 with 230 bucks??? i dont thrust in low (like 5200)just to get a 6...
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June 12, 2004 5:43:42 PM

Stop it , ati is like 1-2% behind nv in open gl. You cant say that it is slow in ogl.

Athlon 2700xp+ (oc: 3200xp+ with 200fsb)
Radeon 9800pro (oc: 410/360)
1024mb pc3200 (5-3-3-2)
Asus A7N8X-X
June 12, 2004 6:24:47 PM

I use ATi FireGL cards at work for all my Unigraphics and ProE work. They are pretty much the standard Radeon 9xxx cards with more stable drivers.

Ati cards are fine in openGL, if you will be rendering you arguably will see better image quality.

"Who is General Failure, and why is he reading my drive?"
P4 3.0 HT, Intel D865GBF, 512MB Crucial PC3200 DDR, WD 36GB Raptor 10,000RPM, BBA Radeon 9600PRO, SB Audigy, Hauppage WinTV
June 12, 2004 6:42:01 PM

mmmmm... youre talking of $500 UP video cards.
im on $200, $250, u cant compare an FIREGL with an sandard ATI, i think. You have 9600PRO you must know about it.
Mi 9600XT on P4 3.2 its not better than my GF4800SE (4400) on XP2500+ (oc 3200+) in OpenGL, so 9800pro will???.... cause i really want it but im scared about sacrifyng ogl performance for AA and AF
June 12, 2004 6:44:48 PM

1-2% where did you get those figures? its more like 20-30% and in Doom 3 it will be alot more then that.


The Fx line goes as fast the x800 in Ogl.
June 12, 2004 6:45:52 PM

a 9800pro will be much faster. ESPECIALLY using AA and AF for a number of reasons, mainly because of its 256bit memory interface .. slightly better drivers from nvidia cant make up for a much older architecture

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June 12, 2004 6:48:58 PM

200 bucks for a card now when he can spend 200 bucks on a next gen card in 2 months which will be alot faster.

Not really worth it don't ya think?
June 12, 2004 6:55:25 PM

test it the fx line with the new drivers they are faster much faster with dx9c too. And the shader quality still not as good as ATi, but better. Also you can now turn of AF optimizations on the fx line aswell with .40 and up.
June 12, 2004 7:58:13 PM

actually, my point was that those cards are the same chips as retail gaming cards, its only the driver stability that has changed. ive actually flashed a 9700 to a FireGL 9700 using a bios and driver file. THe performance difference really isnt big, if at all. Believe me, Ive done a lot of reasearch about this and even had a some pretty long threads here about it.

PS How can you say your 9600XT isnt better than Ti4800se in OGL?

"Who is General Failure, and why is he reading my drive?"
P4 3.0 HT, Intel D865GBF, 512MB Crucial PC3200 DDR, WD 36GB Raptor 10,000RPM, BBA Radeon 9600PRO, SB Audigy, Hauppage WinTV
June 12, 2004 8:28:05 PM

actually, depending on what effects are used, beacuse of the core/ram speeds of the TI4800 it might actually be faster than a 9600xt in OGL


but throw in some shader effects of course, and that changes everything


-------
<A HREF="http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/you.html" target="_new">please dont click here! </A>
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June 12, 2004 9:04:13 PM

Shure! im talking about performance in MAX (that is my concern about the OGL on ATI) not games in OGL.

And YES!, my GF4800se(on AMD) moves better with lots of geometry in MAX than 9600XT(on P4), i've tryed it with the exact same file, the exact same geometry and its very obvious.
June 13, 2004 1:29:32 AM

nvidia has always been better for Max then ATi, in general in games too for Ogl.

You actaully use the hardware renderers? I find them very unstable
June 13, 2004 3:28:11 AM

You are the most annoying troll ever. I really hope you're at least right.

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June 13, 2004 3:43:19 AM

man take a equally priced ati card and match with an nV card and do the ogl tests. Every benchmark site proves that anyways.
June 13, 2004 3:55:03 AM

Hardware Renderers??? its about max???, dont know about it... but sounds interesting!....
June 13, 2004 3:56:11 AM

well you use ogl in max right? max has both dx8 or 9 and ogl for its hardware renderers in its viewports.
We find them very unstable.

Our art team now uses Maya and only does animating in Max becuase its so unstable we have to stay with software :/ . Would use 3dlab's cards but those things aren't cheap!
June 13, 2004 5:00:46 AM

ooh yes!!! sorry!, I've always used Ogl without any problem, and better than SOFT, but D3D its very unstable and can't find the way to quit the triangulation. The only problem with Ogl is when i open the program i see a flash residual image of the last sesion but i think is more Video Ram problem.
June 13, 2004 5:09:41 AM

Keep in mind OpenGL 2 is out in mid August - and both companies are rewriting their OpenGL drivers. Who knows what the OpenGL scene will look like in two months.

If you're looking at a card today I'd suggest a 9800pro. I doubt you'll be able to get a X800 or 6800 class card for $200 before next fall.

*Dual PIII-800 @900 i440BX and Tualeron 1.2 @1.7 i815*
June 13, 2004 5:18:08 AM

So when do you think 6800 mid range will be released?? im thinking selriously to wait. Anyway half life2 will be released till............
June 13, 2004 5:25:19 AM

thats the tough one lol, would say end of this year no sooner. The 6800 non ultra is supposed to be end of next month. Which should be around $299 though. The cards you have is good for now. They will run both Doom 3 and Half life 2 at lower reses decently.

If ya really want to have a new mid range card to run half life 2 ATi should be able to get some of thier lower end cards in 3 months.
June 13, 2004 6:29:01 AM

I just saw 6800 non ultra on e-vga in stock at $299 so i think it'll be very soon on stores.
It has 12 pipes, 128ddr ant FULL OGL ICD, looks pretty nice.
June 13, 2004 6:34:15 AM

that card beats any of the top end cards of the last line hands down and its much less. It's 128 mb ram is a bit of concern though. But should be ok for Half Life 2 with no aa of af.


talking to another developer this is what nV told him how they are stacking thier cards vs. ATi.

6800 Ultra vs PE
6800 Gt vs Xt
6800 non u vs Pro

don't see see how the non ultra can match the pro with that little vram :/  But its cheaper card. They might slide something else in the middle who knows
June 13, 2004 10:58:12 AM

you might want to do some very simple research for yourself. if you read some of the other posts here in the forums you might notice that entium seems to be very knowledgable about pc's, their software and hardware, but he is shameless in his support of nvidia products. I think you would be better off if you did some research of your own and made up your own mind, no matter which company's card you decide to purchase.
June 13, 2004 12:35:08 PM

hey if ATi came out with a better card I would support ATi, but they didn't. And alot of people seemed to already made up thier mind that the x800 is faster and a better card. Just wait and see is all I'm saying. There is a big difference.

Here is another link with the 61.11 drivers where the ultra is equal to the x800xt and the gt is only 5 fps behind

<A HREF="http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1583557,00.a..." target="_new">http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1583557,00.a...;/A>
June 13, 2004 7:16:37 PM

nah, he's another Kinney

RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
120% nVidia Fanboy+119% Money Fanboy
GeForce 6800 Ultra--> The Way we thought FX 5800Ultra is meant to be played
THGC's resident Asian and nVboy :D 
June 13, 2004 7:45:10 PM

yes I am because I know its better :) . Also if ya wait til later this month new benchmarks will be posted and it will be fairly black and white.

Not to mention the increase with SM 3.0
June 14, 2004 3:40:22 AM

Entium is a troll until proven otherwise. He's way worse than Kinney.

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June 14, 2004 3:45:06 AM

well I have my information right that why its worse. And everything I've showed ya so far is whats been vaguely confirmed on other forums. The benchmarks are not done yet by reviewers because these are leaked beta drivers I can't post them either. So just wait and be patient.
June 14, 2004 3:52:17 AM

I am patient and don't mean any disrespect, but you're like a rabid dog trying to tell everyone that the 6800 is better than the competition when the competition is for sale and the 6800 cards aren't. My point is simple and that is that I'm waiting for them to actually be for sale.

I can't wait for a retail card shootout between Nvidia and ATI.

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June 14, 2004 3:59:47 AM

I hear ya, I'm just telling you my findings and my opinion is the gf 6 line is kicks ass. As ya guys know I thought the fx line was absolute crap wasn't worth the silcon it was made from. I'm a little bit boosterious about it but thats just me. If it was ATi doing with nV is doing I would be barking about ATi :) 
June 14, 2004 4:24:20 AM

How the [-peep-] is he a troll? Thats just pure fanATIsm right there. Who cares if the 6800 arent out yet?

It like man the new Nissan 350Z is better than a toyota Camry, but who the [-peep-] cares cause the Nissan Z wont be out for like TWO WHOLE WEEKS. OMG GET THE CAMRY.

ITS ALL ABOUT FUTURE PROOFING. A 9700 PRO is quite sufficient for TODAY. Much less a X800.

Enitum is offering intelligible advice from a GAME DEVELOPERS perspective. How the [-peep-] can you call him a troll?

How can you call him a Kinney or a troll when in another thread someone was going to get a 9800 pro and he didnt respond with a troll-like "no just get a 5900"!?

He sent me pics of his 6800 GT, hes not bullshittin, but run a good informer out of here if you want to.

Athlon 2500-M @ 2.64 GHZ
BBA AIW 9700 PRO
512MB 2.5 Mushkin
80 GB WD HD 8MB cache
June 14, 2004 4:54:16 AM

For some reason i am sure entium is right about the new nv drivers.

Athlon 2700xp+ (oc: 3200xp+ with 200fsb)
Radeon 9800pro (oc: 410/360)
1024mb pc3200 (5-3-3-2)
Asus A7N8X-X
a b U Graphics card
June 14, 2004 4:55:30 AM

Quote:
200 bucks for a card now when he can spend 200 bucks on a next gen card in 2 months which will be alot faster.

Not really worth it don't ya think?

I am keeping an open mind on whether 6800U will outperform X800XT in the near future like you say it will. I can't wait to see the retail cards thoroughly compared.

But what is wrong with a R9800 Pro for $200 now? Exactly what cards will NV or ATI release in the next 2 months for under $200 that will beat out a R9800 pro. I don't expect X600 to do it. What nex gen card does NV have to offer for $200? It's a no brainer not to spend $300-$400 on a 9800XT or 5950U, but $200 for R9800 Pro seems hard to beat for quite a while.



ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 512MB Corsair TwinX PC3200LL, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
June 14, 2004 5:03:12 AM

It's very simple. It's called a paper release. He's excited, estatic, even orgasmic....about a paper release.

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June 14, 2004 9:43:28 AM

Quote:

Entium is a troll until proven otherwise. He's way worse than Kinney.


At least entium is not bothering us with his political views and rubbish extreme right wing activist links. Let's hope it's gonna stay like that.


BigMac

<A HREF="http://www.p3int.com/product_center_NWO_The_Story.asp" target="_new">New World Order</A>
June 14, 2004 11:30:15 AM

I don't remember Kinney posting any of that in this section.

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June 14, 2004 1:22:24 PM

LOL go paper releases.
June 14, 2004 2:19:57 PM

I hate politics hehe
June 14, 2004 5:28:02 PM

dhluck your dumb as [-peep-] man.. no offense.. but hes not basing his opinions on a paper release, he HAS BOTH the GT and ULTRA. And the REST of us will have these in two weeks at the most.

Athlon 2500-M @ 2.64 GHZ
BBA AIW 9700 PRO
512MB 2.5 Mushkin
80 GB WD HD 8MB cache
June 14, 2004 5:49:47 PM

Are you 12 years old?

I don't care what he has or might have. I care about what is available and the results of the retail reviews. It's common sense.

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!