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Guys need your help!! (system)

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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June 15, 2004 12:23:32 AM

Hey everyone whats up, I need some help / suggestions for those of you who have been around.

I need a cheap system quick, under a 1000, cheaper the better, my only requirement is a agp slot on the mobo and Xp Pro, im looking for a premade computer, (ex: dell). honestly around 500 would be great, a monitor isnt neccesary, ram can be low I plan on maxing system out with affordable cruicial ram at a later date. I dont care if its a e-machine or salvation army computer. (A included cheapie video card would be great).

Thanks for your help, I hope everyones summers are going well.

P.s. The best deal ive found so far was a 1000 dollar dell, but I know there must be something cheaper.

Asus p4c800 Deluxe,1 Gig Mushkin PC3200 400 Mhz(222),Pentium 4 3.0 512k 800Fsb HT, Thermaltake Xaser III, Thermaltake Spark 7+,WD 80 Gig 7200,GeForce 4 MX440,Nec Multi-Sync LCD 1830,EG465P-VE

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a b U Graphics card
June 15, 2004 1:38:20 AM

If you plan on upgrading do NOT buy anything from DELL, HP, (GATEWAY ?), etc. As they limit what you can upgrade with properietary connectors, and the severely limit your BIOS/CMOS options meaning you are stuck with vanilla settings.

Get something from a local PC dealer that THEY pre-make for you. And make sure to mention you want a flexible install/creation that will allow you future options for upgrading. I can get a pre-made computer here in Calgary for under $500 CDN that will allow you to max out everything on the market (except the AMD64 series, they start closer to $700 right now).

Best to get a beige box local OEM than anything from a major company that will lock-down your options. The big boys are for people who send their computers to depots for upgrades, not for home tweakers.

Also most packages from the big boyz that comes with XP PRO are overpriced IMO because they are targeted at corporate purchases.

As for something on line, dunno. BTW, what are we talking here $1000 US, AUS, CDN, ?


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
Related resources
June 15, 2004 3:55:26 AM

www.ditcorp.com

is where I got mine. came with a gigabyte mobo, atx box and psu, etc. much, much better equipment than anything dell, hp, gateway or any of those will sell you. you can get one without a monitor if you want. they are located in Iowa, Nebraska, and California I believe. a shop similar to this would be a good choice also. I believe they have an amd 2800+ unit with 400fsb mobo for $600+shipping and tax.

www.ibuypower.com

isn't bad either I hear, but I think DIT is cheaper for a similar piece of equipment
June 15, 2004 4:16:23 AM

"I believe they have an ati 2800+ unit"...........

WTF? ati and amd together?????????? lol

AMD64 2800+
MSI Neo-Fis2r
512mb Kingmax ddr400
Sapphire 9800pro 128mb
10K WD Raptor
June 15, 2004 4:17:00 AM

lol
June 15, 2004 4:54:30 AM

Where are you living????
There are good Dealers in San Diego, CA.

You can get a 64 3400+ ,512ddr400,120 SATA, DVDRW Sony8x, Radeon 9600Pro 256 and MSI K8Tneo at $1039 ($905 64-3200+,$849 64-3000+)

Or Same components with P4 3.4 and ASUS P4C800E-DLX for $1065 ($945 3.2E, $885 3.0E, $839 2.8E)
June 15, 2004 1:20:45 PM

Mass (thanks for sites ill check them out).

Asus p4c800 Deluxe,1 Gig Mushkin PC3200 400 Mhz(222),Pentium 4 3.0 512k 800Fsb HT, Thermaltake Xaser III, Thermaltake Spark 7+,WD 80 Gig 7200,GeForce 4 MX440,Nec Multi-Sync LCD 1830,EG465P-VE
June 15, 2004 1:36:29 PM

Go to best buy and look at the HP Athlon lineup. They are pretty good systems (we used to sell the midrange ones for about $600 for just the tower) and should have some pretty nice rebates on them. Just shy away from the service plans ;)  (boy my old boss would KILL me for saying that)

"Who is General Failure, and why is he reading my drive?"
P4 3.0 HT, Intel D865GBF, 512MB Crucial PC3200 DDR, WD 36GB Raptor 10,000RPM, BBA Radeon 9600PRO, SB Audigy, Hauppage WinTV
June 15, 2004 2:22:19 PM

Check this out tell me what yall think...

Abit VA-10 KM400 W/S/V/L Audio Header Mobo
Amd Athlon Xp-2400+
256mb DDr Pc-3200
40Gb Wd Ide 7200
52x CRW + 16 DVD Combo
DIT A012 MIDTOWER BLACK ATX W/PS & F-USB

Thats $349, I can get a windows xp pro serial key for 80 bucks, Im buying a 12 inch lcd monitor for 150. And probably get a Ati 9800 pro for it. Think thatll be pretty decent, espically for the price.

(p.s. Does Ditcorp build this computer for me, or do they just send all the peices?)


Asus p4c800 Deluxe,1 Gig Mushkin PC3200 400 Mhz(222),Pentium 4 3.0 512k 800Fsb HT, Thermaltake Xaser III, Thermaltake Spark 7+,WD 80 Gig 7200,GeForce 4 MX440,Nec Multi-Sync LCD 1830,EG465P-VE
June 15, 2004 2:59:12 PM

just wondering, but what is the purpose of this computer? Is it for yourself, or a friend/family member?

AMD64 2800+
MSI Neo-Fis2r
512mb Kingmax ddr400
Sapphire 9800pro 128mb
10K WD Raptor
June 15, 2004 3:15:33 PM

I thought you wanted a prebuilt system? Even if it comes assembled thats no big deal (its not configured nor is any software installed). Assembling a computer is extremely easy. Dont let it scare you.

PS A 12" LCD monitor??? Those usually have the worst contrast ratios and are practically unusable except for point of sale machines. I hope you know what you are getting into.

"Who is General Failure, and why is he reading my drive?"
P4 3.0 HT, Intel D865GBF, 512MB Crucial PC3200 DDR, WD 36GB Raptor 10,000RPM, BBA Radeon 9600PRO, SB Audigy, Hauppage WinTV
June 15, 2004 3:30:04 PM

what do you want this system for?
June 15, 2004 11:46:17 PM

the DIT system I got was preassembled, but came without a system fan and had a bad modem. they fixed the modem and installed a fan...

and my last pc was a HP, garbage I'm telling you. couldn't buy an atx compatable power supply when it went bad, they wanted almost $100 for a 175 watt piece of crap, so I just had it put in a generic box which came with a 300 watt psu for $30, heh.

I believe they don't give as much support for a system that's purchased without an OS. I believe they still preassemble it. and I believe you still get a 1 year warranty. also, any warranty work has to be done by them. doesn't matter who touches it, if it's not them it's a voided warranty. but other than the two problems I had the system is much, much better than anything you could get from any of the bigger companies.

good luck whatever you decide to do
June 16, 2004 12:40:33 AM

The computer is basicaly gonna serve the purpose of giving me and my brother the ability to box 2 everquest accounts at the same time, id like the computer to be able to run everquest 2 also, which is why im adamant about the agp slot and decent videocard upgradeability.

I had to build my computer I have now, and I just hate ordering parts and waiting for parts to come in and having them hold the system up, id rather just have everything come at once preferabley all together.

I need a micro monitor becuase the new computers monitor needs to fit on the desk next to the other monitor but We want it small so it dont get in the way of the main one, Size is the priority over looks and function, I didnt realize a 12 inch lcd would suck so bad, if you have any suggestions for anything else equally small that takes up as much or less desk space by all means, im all eyes ;) 

Asus p4c800 Deluxe,1 Gig Mushkin PC3200 400 Mhz(222),Pentium 4 3.0 512k 800Fsb HT, Thermaltake Xaser III, Thermaltake Spark 7+,WD 80 Gig 7200,GeForce 4 MX440,Nec Multi-Sync LCD 1830,EG465P-VE
a b U Graphics card
June 16, 2004 1:48:47 AM

HP normally uses only a proprietary soundcard which can be removed. They normally use Micro ATX boards and SFX power supplies. Same for Gateway.

But a local dealer could give him better parts and local service!

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
a b U Graphics card
June 16, 2004 1:55:52 AM

HP uses SFX and PS/3 power supplies, these are standard parts and are available at serveral internet vendors. They are a bit more expensive than the standard PS/2 sized ATX supplies, but you'll find either for $15-50.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
a b U Graphics card
June 16, 2004 1:57:36 AM

Go to Compgeeks and buy a discontinued HP or Compaq model, make sure it comes with an AGP graphics card (look at the rear pictures to see if the card uses a slot), you'll get done for around $400.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
a b U Graphics card
June 16, 2004 3:22:06 AM

Sorry I was going based on the old HPs which a friend had (that stupid one with the CD holder built into the front of the case). No tweak options at all in BIOS etc. Wasn't sure about Gateway hence the question mark.

Just thought he should make sure he considered that aspect from those companies that did give you a computer with Fisher-Price options.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
a b U Graphics card
June 16, 2004 3:38:43 AM

HP and Gateway have both made LPX and NLX systems, which used a proprietary riser card. But for the most part they used Micro ATX. I had an HP full ATX case, but it also used a Micro ATX board and PS/3 power supply. PS/3 looks like the standard PS/2 form factor, but it's shallower.

Since HP has taken over Compaq, most Compaqs have also been Micro ATX.

Gateway office PC's use a proprietary power supply size, the internals are standard but turned sideways. Their budget systems are Micro ATX, others are full ATX. The Micro ATX power supply also uses internals turned sideways. For both sizes, the reason for the oddball power supply size is to make it narrower, but towers can usually be adapted to use the standard PS/2 and SFX form factors.

HP has an advantage over Gateway here: Most Gateway cases provide no removable backplate, the one there is usually standard ATX but most boardmakers use proprietary backplates now. So with a Gateway case you're often limited to standard port layouts. The port holes that are "missing" from standard are still there, simply covered up with a sticker. HP on the other hand usually has removable backplates and those are often standard size. Even if they aren't standard size, you can still mount an ATX board without the backplate.

So the biggest limiting factor on Gateway is that you have to use an ATX board with standard port layout. That excludes their Flex ATX systems of course.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
June 16, 2004 4:10:36 AM

Damn Hp bought compaq?

Athlon 2500-M @ 2.64 GHZ
BBA AIW 9700 PRO
512MB 2.5 Mushkin
80 GB WD HD 8MB cache
a b U Graphics card
June 16, 2004 4:34:17 AM

Wow, this is old, yes, HP bought Compaq, Maxtor bought Quantum, Creative bought Aureal, 3Com bought US Robotics, nVidia bought 3DFX, VIA bought S3 Graphics...

BTW, HP doesn't make hard drives any more, not since the 90's from what I've seen! Seagate bought Conner...

HP uses most Asus boards, Gateway uses mostly MSI boards, and not all HP's are made by them: Trigem, the parent company of eMachines, has their lable in several HP systems! Those are all low end systems. Trigem drives are actually manufactured by Samsung, but are so poor quality that Samsung won't even put their name on them. Hence if you see a drive that says "Trigem" on it, you're vitually assured Trigem built the whole system. But I was assuming we weren't talking about the bottom end HP systems here!

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
a b U Graphics card
June 16, 2004 4:48:06 AM

Good to know. Too many issues caused because of proprietary stuff.

Thanks for the info could come in handy.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
June 16, 2004 4:49:39 AM

yep thats why all your hand held pc's from compaq are HP models
a b U Graphics card
June 16, 2004 5:21:23 AM

Yes, shame on companies like Abit, Asus, Biostar, Chaintech, DFI, Epox, FIC, Gigabyte, Holtek, Iwill, Jetway...for making nearly all their boards proprietary. They should have more boards with standard port layouts like the Gateway cases require!

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
June 16, 2004 8:41:58 AM

well, I went to CompUsa to look for a power supply, they told me I had to order one from HP. they had no power supplies that would work for it. was a mid-tower case. the floppy drive wouldn't work in an atx box either
June 16, 2004 3:07:15 PM

Where the heck have you been.
a b U Graphics card
June 16, 2004 5:06:24 PM

That's because ordinary computer salespeople don't know that much. And most "technicians" are nothing more than glorified salespeople. They see a "problem", rather than investigate they give bad advice. Fact is, if THEY don't sell something, THEY don't care about it.

The floppies are standard but use non-standard faceplates (built into the case) and buttons. I keep a few of those around from junk systems.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
June 16, 2004 5:16:25 PM

Quote:
That's because ordinary computer salespeople don't know that much. And most "technicians" are nothing more than glorified salespeople.

Thats sooooo true. When i was at BBY it was crazy, it seemed like I was the only one there who knew anything about computers. Everyone else was jsut trying to sell service plans, and talking out of their asses to do so.

Here's my suggestion for the system: buy a retail HP or Compaq system, spend $80 on a standard ATX case and perform the transplant. Ive done this with dozens of off the shelf computers for customers when i worked there off my recommendation. Tossing the parts from an HP into an Antec case is completely straight forward. There is nothing proprietary about retail computers anymore besides the cases and power supplies. Hell, if you wanted to, you could even reflash the mobo BIOS to get rid of the HP logos.


"Who is General Failure, and why is he reading my drive?"
P4 3.0 HT, Intel D865GBF, 512MB Crucial PC3200 DDR, WD 36GB Raptor 10,000RPM, BBA Radeon 9600PRO, SB Audigy, Hauppage WinTV
June 22, 2004 12:44:17 AM

If anyone was curious how this ended up, Theres actually software alot of 1337 uber online eq nerds use to box multiple accounts on one computer, AND I HAVE AQUIRED THIS MWAHAHAHA. The best part about this means that I dont have to go buy another computer and I can just spend my money buying a XT800 and another gig of ram. (which in theory costs as much as another crap computer).

Asus p4c800 Deluxe,1 Gig Mushkin PC3200 400 Mhz(222),Pentium 4 3.0 512k 800Fsb HT, Thermaltake Xaser III, Thermaltake Spark 7+,WD 80 Gig 7200,GeForce 4 MX440,Nec Multi-Sync LCD 1830,EG465P-VE
a b U Graphics card
June 22, 2004 12:51:29 AM

I still think you need the Awesome Speed of a new PCI-EX based nV <A HREF="http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/200402172003..." target="_new">PCX4300</A> though! :wink:

Gotta be MUCH faster than those sluggish AGP based dinosaurs! And nothing like that GF4MX ya got there! :evil: 

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
a b U Graphics card
June 22, 2004 5:19:15 AM

Clearly superior to anything else under $150!

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
!