Who could argue with this?

It used to be that when I told someone they were wrong, they would at least try to defend their position. What happened? Now when I tell someone they were wrong, they thank me! Or don't respond! Even when I make a suggestion, nobody tells me I'm wrong! Even I can't ALWAYS be right. Please somebody confirm this before my head explodes!

Cast not thine pearls before the swine

sounds right!!! well i have token Mick Jagger's job hehe...

Nice Intel and AMD users get a Cookie.... Yummy

I'm sorry Crash, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. I'm constantly wrong and everyone tells me. Your rarely wrong, and if you were, most wouldn't argue cos your rarely wrong. On this occasion however...your wrong!

he he

<b>
"Now drop your weapons or I'll kill him with this deadly jelly baby."
</b>

LOL!

Sex is like Pizza! When it´s good it´s really good.
When it´s bad, it´s still very good!

You walk the walk and talk the talk. Your opinion is pretty valuable...at least to me....

<font color=red>Amd or Intel? Who cares?? Not me...</font color=red>

While you have a good point about the superiority of the i815 chipset, it is a well know fact that the Celeron is a poor performer. In fact, the even the PIII 600E can outperform the Celeron 700 by a wide margin. So unless you are suffering from compatability/stability problems, stick with the old Athlon until significant technological advances can provide a worthwhile upgrade. The 700a cannot be justified, and is in fact not even worth the small price it cost.

Cast not thine pearls before the swine

I have to agree with you that the performance of the Celeron chip itself isn't the most amazing in the world. However, with the drastic differences that we've seen in motherboard performance, I believe that where the CPU itself would lack, the more efficient motherboard would allow it to catch up, making it equal to (if not slightly faster than) the slota Athlon on a kx133 motherboard.

(Admittedly, it's not much of an argument. I wasn't thinking too well. I forgot that it was 800MHz that was the threshold when the Celeron went to a 100MHz FSB, not 700MHz. So a Celeron 700MHz really would be a mediocre performer. Oh well. No one is perfect. Heh heh.)

-Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

Where the hell you been crash?

-MP Jesse

"Signatures Still Suck"

When I tested the Celeron at 850/100 on my system, it laged behind the PIII 700/100 on the same system, by over 15% in 3DMark 2000. And then when I cranked the PIII up, the gap widens significantly. The Celeron simply has too little Cache to compete head to head with the PIII. What's worse is that the PIII can be set at a significantly higher bus speed than the Celeron.

My wife BTW has a better motherboard than me, a CUSL2, which raised the scores of the Celeron by about 3% over my Shuttle HOT-661. So even with the advantage of a better motherboard the Celeron still sucks.

Cast not thine pearls before the swine

I think many PC programs are designed to take advantage of 256K cache. I would like to see them at least double the L1 cache (to 64k from 32k), but improvements to the P3 are a dead issue. What will the revised P4 have? What does the T-bird have?

Cast not thine pearls before the swine

Argh! Heh heh.

I'd really like to avoid any Northwood / Hammer debates if at all possible.

But I am rather curious to see what these next-gen chips will really be capable of. There is a lot of good design theory talked about from the engineers on both sides. Yet Intel's first shot at the P4 was a joke with the way that they hacked parts off to fit it on the die.

So will the Northwood just be a smaller and less expensive P4? Or will it be about as large and much more in charge? And will the ClawHammer be able to even hold a candle to the SledgeHammer? And how will either perform compared to the Northwood (or even a P4 revision after that)? And just as important, what will the price tags be on all of the above? Are there any actual answers available to any of these questions?

Maybe it's just me, but the whole next-gen chip debate really leaves more questions than it does answers. We can all theorize of course, but has anyone seen any good solid proof about any of these things?

I grew very tired of debating/arguing over it all, but if anyone has any real evidence or wants to talk without actually debating which will be better, I'm all for that.

If the opposite of pro is con, what is the opposite of productivity? Ground first.

As for the next generationof processors, well, it's hard to recommend the current P4 with it's dying platform to anyone. It's hard for me to recommend most of the current Athlon motherboards. So I recommend that anyone who doesn't really "need" the extra speed, to wait until this fall, when the new Athlon motherboards and revised P4 come out, to do their comparison shopping.

Cast not thine pearls before the swine

I seriously hope USB 2.0 dies a quick death! Seriously, we already have FireWire on the market. USB 2.0 is inferior to FireWire, and it's inclusion will slow the adaptation of FireWire. WE ALREADY HAVE TOO MANY STANDARDS! I am GLAD that Microsoft has not includei USB 2.0 support, I would hate to see USB 2.0 become a subtitute for FireWire. What would we do with all our FireWire peripherals? We are NOT going to have 3 connection standards, and USB 1 is NOT going away!

Cast not thine pearls before the swine

Normally I would agree with you that Firewire should be the standard used in motherboards. However there are two flaws in your resoning.

1) USB2 is supposed to be 100% backward compatible with USB1. So there won't be any USB1 devices without a home.

2) Firewire is fraught with standardization problems. What device may work on a Mac's Firewire may not work on a PC's Firewire. What works in a car's component networking may not work when plugged into a PC or Mac. It's horrible. My aunt went through all sorts of pain trying to get a Firewire digital camera to connect into her PC because of this. She had three qualified PC technicians try and help her get it to work. Finally she had to return it because it just wouldn't work on her PC. It worked just fine on my uncle's pet Mac though. (When I mean pet, it's just kept around for entertainment purposes, not for getting any real work done. Heh heh.) And I've heard of countless tales all with the same plot. Firewire = incompatability / lack of standards issues. (Sounds a lot like Bluetooth.)

I have yet to hear of anything like this involving USB from any of my friends and family, and I know a lot more people that are using USB devices than are using Firewire devices.

Yes, Firewire is faster. (At least Firewire2 is faster than USB2 and Firewire1 is faster than USB1. USB2 is supposedly faster than Firewire1 though.) However faster doesn't mean better when there are incompatability problems.

Add on top of that the fact that simple little USB devices / toys are much more common and less expensice. Firewire is for 'professionals'. USB is for home uses. Guess who wins the majority?

So all considered, I'll take USB2 as a standard over Firewire any day of the week. At least until version 3 comes out for each, and then a re-evaluation must be made.

If the opposite of pro is con, what is the opposite of productivity? Ground first.

If such is the case, I have yet to hear about it. Granted, everything has issues when you have enough cheap arse companies who cut corners and write bad drivers.

Of everyone that I know who has used USB devices, there has only been one incident of hardware not working properly. And that was a cheap PoS digital camera bought at a computer expo, and even then it was a problem with the camera itself. When it was returned and replaced the new camera worked fine.

Look at how many motherboards have USB integrated on board compared to how many motherboards have Firewire integrated on board. Look at how many USB devices exist compared to how many Firewire devices exist.

Don't get me wrong, I much prefer the Firewire system in theory. In practice however, it has been the experience of myself, my friends, and my family that USB is a better choice in the long-run.

If the opposite of pro is con, what is the opposite of productivity? Ground first.

I haven't tried it, but what happens if you plug PC to PC via Firewire? Doesn't the 6 pin spec carry power as well? Just curious.

(not to you) I think that most of the compatability probs with Firewire and Mac/PC are driver issues, not firewire standards aren't they?

-* This Space For Rent *-
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but if you hook a scanner up to a hdd, how will it write data to the hdd? The hdd will handle part of that - but it still has to know whether it is FAT/FAT32/NTFS etc. Also it has to handle file naming, directories etc. I just don't see that?

-* This Space For Rent *-
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Yeah - you can do that but that is a negotiated DV protocol over firewire supported in Firmware by the camcorder and VCR. Getting into PC filesystem formats is a little deeper and would require some intelligence or user input into one end to resolve conflict or ambiguity.

-* This Space For Rent *-
email for application details

The opposite of PROgress is CONgress.

Cast not thine pearls before the swine

I have to concur that drivers are 90% of problems. Most of the problems that AMD users reported here were because of the VIA drivers, SB Live drivers, etc. (I have a SB Live in a KT133 and went through all that myself).

It seems like drivers are getting more and more buggy. Matrox used to be the dogs bits for drivers a couple of years ago, but look at how many people have problems with their G400/450s. I have 2 friends (1 with a G400 DualHead Max, 1 with G450 16MB), and both have given up trying to get Win Me/98 to work with them in a KT133. 1 of them is a seriously good PC techie who can get his G450 okay in 3 versions of Linux, but 98 just BSODs all the time, and he was at it for 2 months, much to his wife's disgust and nagging.

Does it seem to any of you guys that the tweaking of drivers by manufacturers to get that extra 5% is stretching the drivers too far, and the components end up treading on each others toes?

Well, i think its funny the problems only happen on AMD based platforms not Intel based! Or mostly!

There must be an explanation for that!

Why should you learn from your mistakes?
Learn from other´s! It´s cheaper and less painfull! :-D