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For 4X AGP. best card?

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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July 26, 2004 6:52:55 PM

Im trying to decide what GFX card to get... I know that the FX5700 (none LE) is much better. But my mobo is only a 4X AGP and I was wondering if I would see a difference in the 2 cards since I only have 4X AGP. And if there is a difference would it even be worth paying the extra $30 for the none LE card. Here are the specs for the 2 cards in thinking of. Any advice/info would be great (other than "get a new mobo")

GIGABYTE nVIDIA GeForce FX5700 Video Card, 256MB DDR, 128-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP, Model GV-N57256DE - Retail
Secifications:
Chipset: nVIDIA GeForce FX5700
Memory/Effective Speed: 256MB DDR
BUS: AGP 2X/4X/8X
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti...


Thanks,
BlueD0T
---

CHAINTECH nVIDIA GeForce FX5700LE Video Card, 256MB DDR, 128-bit, DVI/TV-Out, AGP, Model "SA5700L" -RETAIL
Specifications:
Chipset/Core Speed: nVIDIA GeForce FX5700LE/250MHz
Memory/Effective Speed: 256MB DDR/400MHz
BUS: AGP 4X/8X
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti...

More about : agp card

July 26, 2004 7:08:07 PM

as far as I know all 8x are backwards compatavble with 4x. And since, the difference in FPS in VERY minimal, just buy a regualar 8x card of your choice.

<font color=blue><font color=red>Milk</font color=red> my <font color=red>ass</font color=red>, and call me <font color=red>Nancy</font color=red>!</font color=blue>
July 26, 2004 7:23:22 PM

So the FX5700 at 8X AGP will run the about the same as the FX5700 at 4X AGP? I just dont want to buy a good card and have it limited my my 4X AGP. basicly im looking for what card i can get the most bang for my buck on a 4X AGP (mostly i will be using the card for Doom3 and basic word and internet stuff)

If the FX5700 is not limited much by running on a 4X AGP then i will get that, but if not i plan on getting the FX5700 LE
Related resources
July 26, 2004 7:44:46 PM

don't worry, you get what you get :smile:
AGP8X doesn't help (well, a little little bit that you wouldn't notice differences)
July 27, 2004 2:22:09 AM

For you info the AGP port speed don't affect the GPU performance by much if you AGP speed is 4x or more!

And if I were you, I would buy another card. You can even get a Radeon 9600XT for the same price at NewEgg. And, by the way, I don't think it's necessary to get 256Megs, 128Meg is usually enough. But, if you want to buy a card only for Doom 3 wait a little bit. HardOPC will test various systems/cards for this game.

149.99$ - Gigabyte Radeon 9600XT
<A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti..." target="_new">http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti...;/A>

141$ - Sapphire Radeon 9600XT
<A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti..." target="_new">http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti...;/A>

--
Asus A7N8X / <font color=green><b>AMD Sempron 2800+</b></font color=green> (tbred @ 167x12)
Kingston DDR333 2x256Megs
<font color=red>Built by ATI Radeon 8500LE 128Megs</font color=red> @ C:275/M:290
July 27, 2004 12:10:46 PM

I agree with you! But the one at 120$ is the REFURBISHED, the "new" is this one :
<A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti..." target="_new">http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti...;/A>

By the way, this card is nowhere to find in Canada. I would buy it today if I could find it and I would mod it to 9800PRO.

--
Asus A7N8X / <font color=green><b>AMD Sempron 2800+</b></font color=green> (tbred @ 167x12)
Kingston DDR333 2x256Megs
<font color=red>Built by ATI Radeon 8500LE 128Megs</font color=red> @ C:275/M:290
a b U Graphics card
July 27, 2004 12:43:49 PM

It's brand new OEM not refurbished. That was my though when I first saw it too. But the refurbished part numbers always have an R at the end. This Was a special on the home page. It's the same as you linked to but not in the retail box. Even includes the bundled game. That's why even with strikes against it for being a PowerColor & a SE, it is 256-bit, new, and a very good price.

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 1GB Corsair XMS 4000 Pro Series, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
July 27, 2004 12:48:27 PM

So why do they list it as a refurbished part?!?!?

Well, I try to get one of these, I asked about it one month ago and I had no chance in Canada!!! But, this morning I will call again and check listing with Canadian retailers.

--
Asus A7N8X / <font color=green><b>AMD Sempron 2800+</b></font color=green> (tbred @ 167x12)
Kingston DDR333 2x256Megs
<font color=red>Built by ATI Radeon 8500LE 128Megs</font color=red> @ C:275/M:290
a b U Graphics card
July 27, 2004 12:51:57 PM

Were you looking at the first link or the second? The first doesn't list it as a refurb. The second does both by starting the description with REFURBISHED, and also the R at the end of their item numbers is for refurb. You still can't order from newegg up in Canada huh. That stinks.


ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 1GB Corsair XMS 4000 Pro Series, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
July 27, 2004 1:01:04 PM

Quote:
You still can't order from newegg up in Canada huh. That stinks.

We (Canadians) can't actually buy from most of the American based web site. In last June, I tried to get the famous Powercolor R98SE-C3 or R98SE-C3G from various USA based online retailers and I had no luck. They all required to be US residents!

I will try today to search in Froogle/Pricewatch to find a reliable online retailers to get this card!


--
Asus A7N8X / <font color=green><b>AMD Sempron 2800+</b></font color=green> (tbred @ 167x12)
Kingston DDR333 2x256Megs
<font color=red>Built by ATI Radeon 8500LE 128Megs</font color=red> @ C:275/M:290
July 27, 2004 5:04:57 PM

The 9600XT and 9800se are alittle less $'s than the FX 5700 but only the 128mb's are. I want to be able to play doom3 that uses 500mb of gxp mem. as said in this link
http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20040727_052008.ht...

and the FX 5700 is the best one with 256mb at the best price.

thanks everyone for the advice with the AGP stuff..
BlueD0T
a b U Graphics card
July 27, 2004 6:08:48 PM

You are making one of the big mistakes that many folks do. Thinking a slower card is better because it has more memory. When in fact, the FX5700 is too slow to benifet from the extra memory. What I mean is, when games that need 256MB of texture memory are played, the FX5700 will chug along trying to play them. A 128MB R9600XT would be much better.

Look at <A HREF="http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/digest3d/0604/itogi..." target="_new">this review</A> showing benchies with the Half Life 2 beta. Notice how the FX5700 or FX5700LE cards do at 1024x768. Sure they are 128MB version, but I guarantee you the 256MB versions won't do any better. Sometimes they do worse because they put slower cheaper memory on the 256MB cards. Look at the radeon 9600 and the radeon 9800 Pro and see the 256MB versions have no performance gain over the 128MB versions. This will be the same case for thew FX5700.

Buy what you want, but you are making a big mistake thinking the FX5700 is more future-proof because it has double the memory. In the near furture it will be too slow to play the games that will come out, even if it had 512MB of DDR on it.

The R9600XT 128MB does better in the HL2 beta than the FX5700ultra and even the FX5900XT. So for $145, the 9600XT 128MB is far more ready for HL2 (and any game) than an FX5700 256MB.

EDIT:Ah yes, I forgot Doom 3. To play at Ultra High settings you will need a 512MB card yes. But a 512MB FX5700 wouldn't cut it unless you want to play a slide show. You'll need at least a GF6800 or X800 class card with 512MB, which doesn't exist yet. That is why it was stated that there are settings not enabled on todays hardware because they don't support it. Doom 3 can look better down the road once hardware comes out capable of running it in ultra mode.




ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 1GB Corsair XMS 4000 Pro Series, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Pauldh on 07/27/04 02:19 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
July 27, 2004 7:38:47 PM

I agree with you Pauldh!

Too many people think that more IS better, when more is not always better.

--
Asus A7N8X / <font color=green><b>AMD Sempron 2800+</b></font color=green> (tbred @ 167x12)
Kingston DDR333 2x256Megs
<font color=red>Built by ATI Radeon 8500LE 128Megs</font color=red> @ C:275/M:290
July 27, 2004 7:46:24 PM

Here is your choice then :

Running Doom 3 in 640x480 with low details but high-quality texture, because you have an impressive 256Megs of video ram.

OR

Running Doom 3 in 800x600 with medium/high details bacause you have a powerful GPU called Radeon 9600XT.

GeForceFX cards lags behind Radeon 9600/9800. It is a known fact. And I 100% agree with Pauldh, 256Megs Video RAM is useless on this type of video cards.

NOTE : Tomorrow, I will receive my Powercolor Radeon 9800SE with "only" 128Megs of ram (I will soft-mod it to Radeon 9800 PRO if possible :smile: ), and I'm 100% sure I will beat any GeForceFX 5700 or lower in Doom 3 and HL2.

--
Asus A7N8X / <font color=green><b>AMD Sempron 2800+</b></font color=green> (tbred @ 167x12)
Kingston DDR333 2x256Megs
<font color=red>Built by ATI Radeon 8500LE 128Megs</font color=red> @ C:275/M:290
July 27, 2004 8:21:17 PM

That makes since, kinda. but I was thinking that with a 128mb card (on doom3) things would haft to be compressed more. and with a 256mb compressed less. and 512 not compressed at all. and if the video compression works the same way as like a zip file, the more its compressed the more the CPU has to work at uncompressing it.

so would a card with less memory (more compression) haft to spend more time uncompressing, than a card with more memory (less compression)... So the more powerful GFX processor would be using its power to decompress rather than on the other things it does (what ever that is)?

Would that not negate the extra power if it? or is that just not the way it works...

Thanks
BlueD0T

P.S If a mid-line card will be reduced to running at 640x480 (one doom3) i would hate to see what it would do to a GF4.

sorry if this is getting off the topic alittle
July 28, 2004 12:06:32 PM

It's more complicated than this, first texture compression/decompression is not like ZIP, it's more like JPEG. So, basically a compressed texture can have some artifacts because the compression is not lossless. But texture compression do not affect overall performance in game. So getting a 256Megs video card will, of course, have a bit higher quality texture in game, but these "bigger" texture might tax the GPU too. What id Software made, is the ability to have to choice : uncompressed texture in the GPU or handle bigger texture, both solution have their highs and low.

Like I said before, I personnaly buy a Radeon 9800 SE 128Megs (hoping to soft-mod it to 9800 PRO succesfully). Because I want more raw-power, I know that this raw power will gives to Doom3 and HL2 a bigger boost than 256Megs of video ram.

For the price you want to pay, there is more powerful GPU than the GeForceFX 5700. And add to this the fact that most 256Megs version of low/mid-range video cards have slower ram. And memory bandwidth is very important for today's games. If you talk to overclocker's and read reviews, you will often read that the memory speed greatly affect performance.

For example, getting a GPU 256Megs @ 600MHz will be slower than the same GPU with 128Megs of ram @ 800MHz.

Unless you get a Radeon 9800XT, a GeForceFX 5950 Ultra, a Radeon X800 or a GeForce 6800 it is pretty much useless to spend more money on a 256Megs board. It'S better to sacrifice that memory and get a better GPU.

--
Asus A7N8X / <font color=green><b>AMD Sempron 2800+</b></font color=green> (tbred @ 167x12)
Kingston DDR333 2x256Megs
<font color=red>Built by ATI Radeon 8500LE 128Megs</font color=red> @ C:275/M:290
July 28, 2004 8:12:25 PM

I have gigabyte fx5700 and mobo abit KG7 that just support agp 4x. The problem is on my mobo if i use agp 4x for this card, the color in game will change rapidly like rainbow. the problem fixed if i change agp setting to 2x but i feel like its too slow. The card run fine on my sister abit IS7 board with agp 8x. I dont know if this card problem just happen with abit KG7 or it happen with other boards that just support agp 4x too. Planning to change my mobo with abit NF7 or change this card with Radeon 9600pro (but still not sure that radeon 9600pro will run well on my abit KG7 with agp4x).
July 29, 2004 9:58:58 AM

pay a little more and get a 9800pro... will last you alot longer and is much better

"Its only when you look at ants closely with a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames"
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