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TECH JUNKIES, help me customize a gaming laptop under $1,650?

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July 27, 2012 5:43:35 PM

NEW QUESTION! #8

I'm not near tech savvy and want to invest in a desktop replacement which I can still game in nicely 4 years from now.

Here's what I'm looking at:
http://www.xoticpc.com/sager-np9170-clevo-p170em-p-4342...

I really need help with customization as in what is necessary and what really isn't:

1. Is the "Glare Type" Glossy Screen that bad from the "Matte Type" Screen? - Is the quality effected by much?

2. nVidia GeForce GTX 675M or AMD Radeon HD 7970M? - I was also considering nVidia GeForce GTX 580M since I hear it's practically the same as the 675M but the 580M only comes in a MSI laptops which I don't really want because Sager has the 30 day policy instead of the 15 day.

3. Should I upgrade memory from 8GB 1600MHz to 12GB 1333MHz? - If there isn't much of a performance difference please let me know, oh and to save even more money 8GB 1333MHz should be decent enough anyway right?

4. Should I get 128gb Crucial M4 Series SSD for primary hard drive and 500gb 7200rpm for my second instead of only getting 750gb 7200rpm? - I hear there's a huge performance difference when you have an SDD. Is it worth it?

5. If I do get two hard drives should I get Raid 0 Stripe Enabled? - Can someone explain what this exactly does, I mean after it combines hard drives for performance would I still be able to tell the SDD drive and the normal drive apart?

6. Instead of Built-in 802.11 Wireless B/G/N - Stock Wireless Card + Bluetooth™ v3.0 should I get Intel® Advanced-N 6235 - 802.11A/B/G/N Wireless LAN Module + Bluetooth™ 4.0? - Should I even worry about this upgrade if I'm just gonna be at home with this laptop and nowhere else? I mean how much better would the Intel one be?

7. Since I'm choosing no operating system will it be hard to install a
Windows 7 Ultimate CD on my own?

**8. If I don't get and SSD now and only a 750gb 7200rpm, will it be hard for me to install a SSD later? Oh and what if I do get an SSD and a regular drive, can I make a request for them to install the OS I'm getting onto the SSD because I think they'll install it onto the regular drive. Do you think they'll do it for me?

Sorry for so many questions, I'm a youngling. If you can help I'll appreciate it so much! Thanks in advance :) .
a b D Laptop
July 27, 2012 5:54:05 PM

imo 7970m if you arent concered about battery life. the 675m is fermi. the 7970m will perform significantly better in 1920x1080 compared to the 675m
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July 27, 2012 5:54:48 PM

1. Glossy screens can possibly make the picture look a little better at the cost of maybe a little glare, but it is really personal preference, go to Best Buy, compare glossy and matte screens and choose whichever looks best to you.

2. Radeon 7970M.

3. No, 8GB 1600MHz is plenty for gaming.

4. Get a SSD, faster windows boot speeds are SO NICE. It wont reallly affect game performance much, but the overall windows experience is definitely much better.

5. No raid. SSD boot drive and HDD storage drive.

6. Go with built in. Unless you are cruising wireless hotspots, its not going to make a different to you at all.

7. It wont be hard to install it yourself as long as you know what you are doing and how to configure all of the drives and such. And no, each serial number you get is for a single installation of Windows, i.e. one per motherboard. http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/window...

You say you arent tech savvy, so just have them install windows for you, that way you dont have to worry about it.
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a b D Laptop
July 27, 2012 6:10:09 PM

velocityx3 said:
I'm not near tech savvy and want to invest in a desktop replacement which I can still game in nicely 4 years from now.

Here's what I'm looking at:
http://www.xoticpc.com/sager-np9170-clevo-p170em-p-4342...

I really need help with customization as in what is necessary and what really isn't:

1. Is the "Glare Type" Glossy Screen that bad from the "Matte Type" Screen? - Is the quality effected by much?

2. nVidia GeForce GTX 675M or AMD Radeon HD 7970M? - I was also considering nVidia GeForce GTX 580M since I hear it's practically the same as the 675M but the 580M only comes in a MSI laptops which I don't really want because Sager has the 30 day policy instead of the 15 day.

3. Should I upgrade memory from 8GB 1600MHz to 12GB 1333MHz? - If there isn't much of a performance difference please let me know, oh and to save even more money 8GB 1333MHz should be decent enough anyway right?

4. Should I get 128gb Crucial M4 Series SSD for primary hard drive and 500gb 7200rpm for my second instead of only getting 750gb 7200rpm? - I hear there's a huge performance difference when you have an SDD. Is it worth it?

5. If I do get two hard drives should I get Raid 0 Stripe Enabled? - Can someone explain what this exactly does, I mean after it combines hard drives for performance would I still be able to tell the SDD drive and the normal drive apart?

6. Instead of Built-in 802.11 Wireless B/G/N - Stock Wireless Card + Bluetooth™ v3.0 should I get Intel® Advanced-N 6235 - 802.11A/B/G/N Wireless LAN Module + Bluetooth™ 4.0? - Should I even worry about this upgrade if I'm just gonna be at home with this laptop and nowhere else? I mean how much better would the Intel one be?

7. Since I'm choosing no operating system will it be hard to install a
Windows 7 Ultimate CD on my own? - Oh and also what if I want to install this in more than one laptop, is that possible with the single serial number?

Sorry for so many questions, I'm a youngling. If you can help I'll appreciate it so much! Thanks in advance :) .


Let me try to answer your many questions in one shot:

1) Glare means there is a reflective coating on the front of the LCD, so it looks smooth and shiny. The matte types are non-smooth, usually only lightly coated without a sheet of plastic to make it shiny. The matte types are what's found typically on Desktop LCD monitors. The shiny stuff was first seen and is still restricted to the laptops. Neither is significantly better than the other. If you game indoors where glare isn't an issue, you MAY be okay with the shiny LCD. Otherwise, consider the matte type, it will reduce glare. All being the same though, the colours are slightly nicer on a shiny type, while the glare is much worse on that same type. Take your pick depending on your environment.

2) AMD 7970M for sure. Same TDP, a LOT higher performance:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-675M.70...

http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-HD-7970M.72675....

3) I wouldn't recommend it. It is cheaply done at home if you really NEED it. No games today or forsee-able requires 8GB, let alone 12GB.

4) Since you are spending big money as it is, get an SSD. It doesn't have to be big in capacity, but you will notice a huge difference when loading the OS, and your usual programs. If you have a large collections of games, don't expect to put all of them on the SSD. Usually just one or a handful tops.

5) You can RAID two (usually identical) hard drives to roughly double the speed. This is pointless now with SSDs. Even if you double a top notch laptop hard drive with 100MB/s read speed, you are only getting 200 MB/s, and that depends on how you RAID them. With SSDs, you can go up to >500 MB/s on a single drive. Not to mention SSDs are much much more reliable than a RAID array of drives. That might be important on a laptop where mobility and high thermal stresses are considered.

6) This won't be important for gaming. Either should work fine. Don't waste money here.

7) No, this won't be hard. If you have a copy of OS you want to use, just follow some guides on the internet if you have not done this before. It is really INTUITIVE. You should be able to follow the installer and get things done by your self. If you get an SSD, make sure to install the Operating System on the SSD by choosing that drive when the Windows installer lists the drives it found.

Hope that helps you out.

EDIT: After you are done installing your OS, if you choose to do it yourself, be sure to download and update all drivers from chipset (Intel), sound, video (AMD or Nvidia), network (both Wifi and LAN), and so on. To make sure you are getting the most out of your SSD/HDD, BEFORE you install your OS, go to the BIOS and set the SATA controller operation mode to AHCI instead of IDE/Compatibility mode.
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July 27, 2012 6:27:49 PM

velocityx3 said:
I'm not near tech savvy and want to invest in a desktop replacement which I can still game in nicely 4 years from now.

Here's what I'm looking at:
http://www.xoticpc.com/sager-np9170-clevo-p170em-p-4342...

I really need help with customization as in what is necessary and what really isn't:

1. Is the "Glare Type" Glossy Screen that bad from the "Matte Type" Screen? - Is the quality effected by much?

2. nVidia GeForce GTX 675M or AMD Radeon HD 7970M? - I was also considering nVidia GeForce GTX 580M since I hear it's practically the same as the 675M but the 580M only comes in a MSI laptops which I don't really want because Sager has the 30 day policy instead of the 15 day.

3. Should I upgrade memory from 8GB 1600MHz to 12GB 1333MHz? - If there isn't much of a performance difference please let me know, oh and to save even more money 8GB 1333MHz should be decent enough anyway right?

4. Should I get 128gb Crucial M4 Series SSD for primary hard drive and 500gb 7200rpm for my second instead of only getting 750gb 7200rpm? - I hear there's a huge performance difference when you have an SDD. Is it worth it?

5. If I do get two hard drives should I get Raid 0 Stripe Enabled? - Can someone explain what this exactly does, I mean after it combines hard drives for performance would I still be able to tell the SDD drive and the normal drive apart?

6. Instead of Built-in 802.11 Wireless B/G/N - Stock Wireless Card + Bluetooth™ v3.0 should I get Intel® Advanced-N 6235 - 802.11A/B/G/N Wireless LAN Module + Bluetooth™ 4.0? - Should I even worry about this upgrade if I'm just gonna be at home with this laptop and nowhere else? I mean how much better would the Intel one be?

7. Since I'm choosing no operating system will it be hard to install a
Windows 7 Ultimate CD on my own? - Oh and also what if I want to install this in more than one laptop, is that possible with the single serial number?

Sorry for so many questions, I'm a youngling. If you can help I'll appreciate it so much! Thanks in advance :) .


1. Is the "Glare Type" Glossy Screen that bad from the "Matte Type" Screen? - Is the quality effected by much?

The Purspoe of the "Matte Type" screen is to reduce glare in situations where reflections are common. IMO it is a good thing to have but you may or may not get any benefit out of it. I have a glossy screen on my laptop and I have never noticed any problems with reflections so I don't really see a need for it. However, if you use your laptop in many places where bright lights affect your mage you might want it. It's your choice.

2. nVidia GeForce GTX 675M or AMD Radeon HD 7970M? - I was also considering nVidia GeForce GTX 580M since I hear it's practically the same as the 675M but the 580M only comes in a MSI laptops which I don't really want because Sager has the 30 day policy instead of the 15 day.

Personally, I would stick with the GTX 675M, GTX 680M or Radeon HD 7970M. Newer tech and better performance but tht's just my opinion.

3. Should I upgrade memory from 8GB 1600MHz to 12GB 1333MHz? - If there isn't much of a performance difference please let me know, oh and to save even more money 8GB 1333MHz should be decent enough anyway right?

8GB is plenty right now for games. Most games don't even require more than 4GB so you won't really benefit from more that 8GB. The performance difference between 1333MHz and 1600MHz is so minimal in most games that you would never notice it.

4. Should I get 128gb Crucial M4 Series SSD for primary hard drive and 500gb 7200rpm for my second instead of only getting 750gb 7200rpm? - I hear there's a huge performance difference when you have an SDD. Is it worth it?

An SSD installed as the boot drive makes a very significant difference in system responsiveness and Windows boot time because it allows a lot more data to be transferred at a time. I does not affect FPS in games. IMO it is well worth it.

5. If I do get two hard drives should I get Raid 0 Stripe Enabled? - Can someone explain what this exactly does, I mean after it combines hard drives for performance would I still be able to tell the SDD drive and the normal drive apart?

RAID 0 combines two identical drives into a single drive by allowing data stripes to be written to both drives at the same time. That speeds up overall performance but creates the possibility of catastrophic data loss if one of the drives fails. You cannot use a standard HDD with an SSD in RAID 0 because the Speeds of the drives are very different. That would be similar to yokeing a race horse with a mule to pull a wagon. See this for more info on RAID: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID

6. Instead of Built-in 802.11 Wireless B/G/N - Stock Wireless Card + Bluetooth™ v3.0 should I get Intel® Advanced-N 6235 - 802.11A/B/G/N Wireless LAN Module + Bluetooth™ 4.0? - Should I even worry about this upgrade if I'm just gonna be at home with this laptop and nowhere else? I mean how much better would the Intel one be?

The built-in wireless should be plenty for most people. The only reason you would need the Intel® Advanced-N 6235 - 802.11A/B/G/N Wireless LAN Module + Bluetooth™ 4.0 is if you have a Dual Band Wireless Network router that supports 5GHz radio band. If your router is specified as a 802.11 b/g/n then you don't have a dual band router and don't need the upgrade uness you also plan to upgrade your router to a dual band 802.11 a/b/g/n router.

7. Since I'm choosing no operating system will it be hard to install a
Windows 7 Ultimate CD on my own? - Oh and also what if I want to install this in more than one laptop, is that possible with the single serial number?

I strongly suggest you change your mind on this one. Your going to have to spend about $100 on the OS anyway. Why would you want to do it yourself if they will do it for you for no extra charge? And, NO, you can only install windows on a single computer for each unique activation code. If you want you can pay for a Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit - 3 Pack - OEM version for $289.99 and install it on only 3 machines.
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July 27, 2012 6:29:33 PM

2) Memory. there shouldn't be too much of a price difference with that memory on the streeet.
depends on how much they are charging/overcharging. If they are overcharging you, just get the minimum memory you can in the build, and stick in memory yourself afterwards-even so far as throwing out the original memory.
Their promotion to give you 16gb 16000 for $50 over 8gb 1333 seems good. I would get that and not have to worry about saving a minor amount of money there.

2)Get some kind of SSD,
But then the 2nd harddrive depends on how you are using your laptop.

If you really want portability you want to save on weight from a spinny disk. Then you put your not-so important data (music/movies etc) on USB sticks or SD cards, or use an external drive that you leave on your desk and don't take with you everywhere. Potentially that is also more stable then shaking your fragile hdd every day.

If you go this route, when buying an external harddrive, you can see there are 2types. the big types based on desktop harddrives and require external power, and the ultraportable ones based on laptop harddrives and powered by usb. You would want the ultraportable ones so if you need to, you can still take along the extra harddrive with you and not have to look for an outlet..

If you're more of a desktop replacement where weight isn't that much of an issue, you can opt for the 2nd built-in disk.

HYBRID drives can also be an option, but they have only 2 hybrid options. the only HYBRID that would stand up to SSD in performance is the momentus 750, but that costs more than buying the ssd, so it doesn't make sense.


wifi-don't pay extra for the fancier cards if you already have a good signal at home. If it turns out to be not so good and you have weak signal, you can always grab another upgrade later (ebay usually has things like this cheap).

7) some people sent you info about Windows already. You need to ALSO be sure that if you are re-using a copy of your OS from an old machine that it is a RETAIL copy, and that you are scrapping the old machine. OEM copies are LOCKED to the motherboard, so you cannot bring it to your new machine. RETAIL copies allow you to take along Windows to a new machine, but you cannot use your old machine anymore. You call Microsoft and tell them that the old machine is scrapped, and then they will give you a new code allow you to install onto your new machine (but still only 1 machine).
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a b D Laptop
July 27, 2012 6:58:09 PM

I'm probably REPEATING a bit, but I decided to simply to keep the same number format. Some of my answers are different.

1. Do NOT get a glossy screen for a laptop. It doesn't take much light to wash out the picture. Glossy screens should ONLY be used in low-light conditions like basements.

2. AMD/NVidia. I recommend the NVidia. First, it's Optimus technology works great (shuts off the NVidia GPU when not needed and uses the other GPU for basic tasks).

*Get the NVidia 6xxM series, but make sure it is the KEPLER version, not Fermi. You can Google that, but some of the 6xxM series are the older 5xxM re-badged (hotter for one thing).

3. 8GB is plenty. Any more won't affect gaming in the slightest and will just create more heat. Unless you have some extreme Photoshop type need it's pointless and a waste.

4. SSD. If you have a choice, absolutely get the Samsung 830 128GB SSD for your main Windows drive, and use a 5400RPM hard drive as your second drive if you need it the space. If you have more than a few games you should make a "GAMES" folder on your hard drive and install them there rather than the default.

5. RAID0. Absolutely do NOT get this. Get an SSD for your main drive and a 5400RPM drive for storage if needed. RAID0 is less reliable and not nearly as fast as an SSD anyway. Also, game loading times aren't much faster with a faster drive as you might think.

6. I agree. Any modern laptop has sufficiently good wi-fi. Unless you're trying to beam video to another device bandwidth and distance shouldn't be an issue. Different ROUTERS have different bandwidths too. I replaced my BELL router with a D-Link and my bandwidth is now enough to beam HD video two floors with generic wi-fi devices.

7. Which Windows?
Just get "Windows 7 Premium 64-bit OEM" unless you have a good reason to pay more for Ultimate.

I agree. You can get multiple licenses by buying full but they can't be used on multiple computers.

Normally I'd recommend the NEXT version of Windows coming out soon, Windows 8 but... aaaaaagh. I hate it. I tried to give it the benefit of the doubt but I just can't stand the way I have to toggle between METRO to Desktop, lack of Start Menu. Sigh.

So:
"Windows 7 Premium 64-bit OEM" ($110 roughly) is my recommend.

Other:
- avoid ACER and Toshiba. I recommend Asus, HP, MSI in that order.
- Acronis True Image is a great program to make IMAGES of your SSD (Windows) and copy to your second hard drive (or USB drive) in case of failure.
- for laptops, I prefer to use HIBERNATION mode only. I set the physical POWER BUTTON to Hibernate so you can simply press it to shut down. Hibernation mode is completely OFF whereas Standby/Sleep isn't.

Summary:
- 6xxM, Optimus, but ensure it is a KEPLER GPU.
- Asus/HP/MSI (not Acer/Toshiba)
- Windows 7 Premium 64-bit OEM
- Samsung 830 128GB for Windows (+ 5400RPM hard drive if needed)
- non-glossy, matte screen (1600x900 or 1920x1080)
- 8GB RAM (FYI, frequency won't really matter much. Also consider low-power RAM if supported by laptop.)

Other tips:
- update BIOS of motherboard
- double-check compatibilities
- update drivers. make sure they are absolutely compatible with your version of Windows and your chipsets
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a b D Laptop
July 27, 2012 7:04:53 PM

Quote:
What do you mean if I'm not concerned about battery life? Is my laptop's battery going to burn out so soon from the frequent use of that graphics card?





no, the 7970 during gaming burns battery pretty quickly, then again just about any gaming can burn battery quickly, Just a heads up like dont expect to have a computer unplugged and gaming for like 3 hours for example. its fine under light use.
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a b D Laptop
July 27, 2012 7:08:51 PM

If you are a student (or know someone who is a student) at a college or university, try the local book store to see if you can pick up a copy of Windows 7 for cheap (used to be 30 US dollars). Or use Dreamspark.com (if you are a student or know someone who is) and get Windows 2008 R2 (avoid the non-R2 version) for free. That is a server version of Windows 7. Then head to:

http://www.win2008r2workstation.com/

To download (or follow tutorial) a utility that converts it to a full function workstation (like windows 7).

If you are not a student and can't find anyone who is a student, you may have to pony up the 80 dollars...
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July 27, 2012 7:10:24 PM

what you posted above is illegal, as it hacks Microsoft's evaluation license.
It's against forum rules to talk about illegal things.
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a b D Laptop
July 27, 2012 7:13:58 PM

photonboy said:


2. AMD/NVidia. I recommend the NVidia. First, it's Optimus technology works great (shuts off the NVidia GPU when not needed and uses the other GPU for basic tasks).

*Get the NVidia 6xxM series, but make sure it is the KEPLER version, not Fermi. You can Google that, but some of the 6xxM series are the older 5xxM re-badged (hotter for one thing).


The 670M and 675M are both Fermi based cards. They are much slower than the 7970m, but they all have the same TDP at 100 watts. Given that the 7000 series have zero-core technology that essentially draws a hair's worth of power during idle, 7970m is far better in all considerations until Nvidia releases something to contest it with at this TDP.

For large gaming laptops, Optimus is to be avoided. The latency of copying 1920x1080 at 60 FPS for 2GB of potential VRAM data across the bus is going to hurt performance. Also, Optimus requires no physical connections between the GPU and the monitor because the data is copied over the bus to the integrated GPU. That's why Optimus is typically used for smaller screen computers with much lower powered GPUs. Certainly not on high end gaming machines.
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a b D Laptop
July 27, 2012 7:14:42 PM

raytseng said:
what you posted above is illegal, as it hacks Microsoft's evaluation license.
It's against forum rules to talk about illegal things.


Is it ? I didn't suggest hacking at all.
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July 27, 2012 7:20:05 PM

Maxx_Power said:
Is it ? I didn't suggest hacking at all.



You said go to this site which will tell you how to unlock windows 2008 rc2. which is a release candidate with trial period. Basically hack it up to get around the trial period.

I don't know what's worse, doing something illegal, or not even knowing you are doing something illegal, because it's so common place.
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a b D Laptop
July 27, 2012 7:22:28 PM

raytseng said:
You said go to this site which will tell you how to unlock windows 2008 rc2. which is a release candidate with trial period. Basically hack it up to get around the trial period.

I don't know what's worse, doing something illegal, or not even knowing you are doing something illegal, because it's so common place.


You should read before you type. That site is Microsoft's site. The version you download is not a trial, because Microsoft GIVES YOU A KEY if you qualify (a student). It is FREE from microsoft under their DreamSpark program (MS has two more similar programs for students).

The other website shows how you can convert 2008 R2 to a workstation usage scenario. ALL OF WHICH ARE LEGAL.
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July 27, 2012 7:24:30 PM

ok,

So then your advice is for him to install an release candidate OS, so that after the trial version expires he is SOL?
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July 27, 2012 7:25:45 PM

photonboy said:

2. AMD/NVidia. I recommend the NVidia. First, it's Optimus technology works great (shuts off the NVidia GPU when not needed and uses the other GPU for basic tasks).

Does the AMD not do that too?

photonboy said:

4. SSD. If you have a choice, absolutely get the Samsung 830 128GB SSD for your main Windows drive, and use a 5400RPM hard drive as your second drive if you need it the space. If you have more than a few games you should make a "GAMES" folder on your hard drive and install them there rather than the default.

This laptop does not offer 5400RPM or else I would've saved money from downgrading :( .

dudewitbow said:
no, the 7970 during gaming burns battery pretty quickly, then again just about any gaming can burn battery quickly, Just a heads up like dont expect to have a computer unplugged and gaming for like 3 hours for example. its fine under light use.

Oh right, of course. Will the card consume less energy when it's not being used? I would hate for it to just sit there when I'm not gaming and spend majority of my laptop's battery life.

Maxx_Power said:
If you are a student (or know someone who is a student) at a college or university, try the local book store to see if you can pick up a copy of Windows 7 for cheap (used to be 30 US dollars). Or use Dreamspark.com (if you are a student or know someone who is) and get Windows 2008 R2 (avoid the non-R2 version) for free. That is a server version of Windows 7. Then head to:

http://www.win2008r2workstation.com/

To download (or follow tutorial) a utility that converts it to a full function workstation (like windows 7).

If you are not a student and can't find anyone who is a student, you may have to pony up the 80 dollars...

Thank you so much for this advice, I'll keep it into consideration.

raytseng said:
what you posted above is illegal, as it hacks Microsoft's evaluation license.
It's against forum rules to talk about illegal things.

Relax, I didn't know that I was just curious. I took it off my thread.

Maxx_Power said:
The 670M and 675M are both Fermi based cards. They are much slower than the 7970m, but they all have the same TDP at 100 watts. Given that the 7000 series have zero-core technology that essentially draws a hair's worth of power during idle, 7970m is far better in all considerations until Nvidia releases something to contest it with at this TDP.

For large gaming laptops, Optimus is to be avoided. The latency of copying 1920x1080 at 60 FPS for 2GB of potential VRAM data across the bus is going to hurt performance. Also, Optimus requires no physical connections between the GPU and the monitor because the data is copied over the bus to the integrated GPU. That's why Optimus is typically used for smaller screen computers with much lower powered GPUs. Certainly not on high end gaming machines.

My brain really hurts. So the smart choice would be 7970M, right? BUT I'm curious as to why all the other nVidia cards say PCI-Express GDDR5 DX11 and the AMD just says GDDR5 DX11.
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a b D Laptop
July 27, 2012 7:26:37 PM

raytseng said:
ok,

So then your advice is for him to install an release candidate OS, so that after the trial version expires he is SOL?


YOU NEED TO READ. As I have said, that is not a release candidate. It is the FULL VERSION. He gets a KEY on the website after he verifies his student status. It does NOT EXPIRE.
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a b D Laptop
July 27, 2012 7:28:10 PM

velocityx3 said:

My brain really hurts. So the smart choice would be 7970M, right? BUT I'm curious as to why all the other nVidia cards say PCI-Express GDDR5 DX11 and the AMD just says GDDR5 DX11.


That's just a typo. They are all PCI-Express 16 Devices. The 7970m is actually PCI-E 3.0 compatible. My money is on the 7970m.
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July 27, 2012 7:32:13 PM

Maxx_Power said:
YOU NEED TO READ. As I have said, that is not a release candidate. It is the FULL VERSION. He gets a KEY on the website after he verifies his student status. It does NOT EXPIRE.


OK alright, you maybe right. But if you want to get into it, I just read the legal fine print on the license, it's not meant to be used in the manner of a desktop, and states that you must already have a valid Windows license on that machine.

So it is still illegal to use the software in for the purposes you have described in that it goes against the terms of the license.
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a b D Laptop
July 27, 2012 7:35:13 PM

raytseng said:
OK alright, you maybe right. But if you want to get into it, I just read the legal fine print on the license, it's not meant to be used in the manner of a desktop, and states that you must already have a valid Windows license on that machine.

So it is still illegal to use the software in for the purposes you have described in that it goes against the terms of the license.


Dear lord. Breaking the EULA is not against the law. This has been settled YEARS AGO.
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July 27, 2012 7:37:09 PM

ok, i think op has all the info he needs on this subtopic.

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July 27, 2012 7:42:28 PM

Maxx_Power said:
That's just a typo. They are all PCI-Express 16 Devices. The 7970m is actually PCI-E 3.0 compatible. My money is on the 7970m.

Ok then I'm sold to 7970M.

raytseng said:
ok, i think op has all the info he needs on this subtopic.

I guess I do, thanks everyone. And it's SHE*, mister.
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July 27, 2012 7:49:12 PM

:)  fair enough.
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July 29, 2012 4:19:07 PM

I have a new question:

If I don't get and SSD now and only a 750gb 7200rpm, will it be hard for me to install a SSD later? Oh and what if I do get an SSD and a regular drive, can I make a request for them to install the OS I'm getting onto the SSD because I think they'll install it onto the regular drive. Do you think they'll do it for me?
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a b D Laptop
July 29, 2012 5:47:36 PM

velocityx3 said:
I have a new question:

If I don't get and SSD now and only a 750gb 7200rpm, will it be hard for me to install a SSD later? Oh and what if I do get an SSD and a regular drive, can I make a request for them to install the OS I'm getting onto the SSD because I think they'll install it onto the regular drive. Do you think they'll do it for me?


If you custom order it from their website with the options of SSD and HDD, they will install both for you. I assume this is that Sager unit still.

If you get it yourself, I'm sure you can install it yourself very easily. They are simple. But if you are ordering the laptop with the SSD+HDD by configuring it while you order, then they'll do that for you, and probably install the OS on the SSD (usually done this way).
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July 29, 2012 6:02:52 PM

They will install Windows onto the harddrive chosen in the "primary" harddrive section. If you have special requests, you can probably chat and talk to them and let them know or put notes into your build.

I see what you mean, since their promotion for 750GB HDD is only under
"primary", and you will get a cheaper price if you switch the order of hardrives in their configurator. I would definitely chat with them about that; because that is an issue with their pricing and sales system, and not a technical problem with the build. Just for them to ensure if you choose it that way to get the price total correct, that they use the SSD as the primary.

If they are a good builder, they should also update windows, update all the drivers, so it is ready for you to use.

It is usually a special request when you DON'T want them to install Windows, if you have certain special intentions or special steps for your computer. But since that doesn't come with a discount, if people want to do that, they just wipe off what they get and redo it exactly how they want.

If you are considering it, it is a time savings to get it right and to just get the SSD now. If you decide to switch down the line, you will either have to transfer windows over (should work smoothly, but not always, and sometimes requires extra cost to get the "transfer kit" model of theSSD). Or you will have to reinstall windows. While the Microsoft install itself is not too long, you have to redo all the setup and configuration which can be timeconsuming.
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July 30, 2012 1:13:28 AM

velocityx3 said:
NEW QUESTION! #8

I'm not near tech savvy and want to invest in a desktop replacement which I can still game in nicely 4 years from now.

Here's what I'm looking at:
http://www.xoticpc.com/sager-np9170-clevo-p170em-p-4342...

I really need help with customization as in what is necessary and what really isn't:

1. Is the "Glare Type" Glossy Screen that bad from the "Matte Type" Screen? - Is the quality effected by much?

2. nVidia GeForce GTX 675M or AMD Radeon HD 7970M? - I was also considering nVidia GeForce GTX 580M since I hear it's practically the same as the 675M but the 580M only comes in a MSI laptops which I don't really want because Sager has the 30 day policy instead of the 15 day.

3. Should I upgrade memory from 8GB 1600MHz to 12GB 1333MHz? - If there isn't much of a performance difference please let me know, oh and to save even more money 8GB 1333MHz should be decent enough anyway right?

4. Should I get 128gb Crucial M4 Series SSD for primary hard drive and 500gb 7200rpm for my second instead of only getting 750gb 7200rpm? - I hear there's a huge performance difference when you have an SDD. Is it worth it?

5. If I do get two hard drives should I get Raid 0 Stripe Enabled? - Can someone explain what this exactly does, I mean after it combines hard drives for performance would I still be able to tell the SDD drive and the normal drive apart?

6. Instead of Built-in 802.11 Wireless B/G/N - Stock Wireless Card + Bluetooth™ v3.0 should I get Intel® Advanced-N 6235 - 802.11A/B/G/N Wireless LAN Module + Bluetooth™ 4.0? - Should I even worry about this upgrade if I'm just gonna be at home with this laptop and nowhere else? I mean how much better would the Intel one be?

7. Since I'm choosing no operating system will it be hard to install a
Windows 7 Ultimate CD on my own?

**8. If I don't get and SSD now and only a 750gb 7200rpm, will it be hard for me to install a SSD later? Oh and what if I do get an SSD and a regular drive, can I make a request for them to install the OS I'm getting onto the SSD because I think they'll install it onto the regular drive. Do you think they'll do it for me?

Sorry for so many questions, I'm a youngling. If you can help I'll appreciate it so much! Thanks in advance :) .

bought a cheap hp pro doubled the ram to 8g put a velocity 3 in it and changed the video. also improved on the heatsink on the processor and video chip. (copper squaree= gamer +
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July 30, 2012 6:37:36 AM

Maxx_Power said:
If you custom order it from their website with the options of SSD and HDD, they will install both for you. I assume this is that Sager unit still.

If you get it yourself, I'm sure you can install it yourself very easily. They are simple. But if you are ordering the laptop with the SSD+HDD by configuring it while you order, then they'll do that for you, and probably install the OS on the SSD (usually done this way).

Oh okay thanks, that's a relief.

raytseng said:
They will install Windows onto the harddrive chosen in the "primary" harddrive section. If you have special requests, you can probably chat and talk to them and let them know or put notes into your build.

I see what you mean, since their promotion for 750GB HDD is only under
"primary", and you will get a cheaper price if you switch the order of hardrives in their configurator.
I would definitely chat with them about that; because that is an issue with their pricing and sales system, and not a technical problem with the build. Just for them to ensure if you choose it that way to get the price total correct, that they use the SSD as the primary.

If they are a good builder, they should also update windows, update all the drivers, so it is ready for you to use.

It is usually a special request when you DON'T want them to install Windows, if you have certain special intentions or special steps for your computer. But since that doesn't come with a discount, if people want to do that, they just wipe off what they get and redo it exactly how they want.

If you are considering it, it is a time savings to get it right and to just get the SSD now. If you decide to switch down the line, you will either have to transfer windows over (should work smoothly, but not always, and sometimes requires extra cost to get the "transfer kit" model of theSSD). Or you will have to reinstall windows. While the Microsoft install itself is not too long, you have to redo all the setup and configuration which can be timeconsuming.

I completely ignored the sale. To save my money what if I did get HDD + SSD instead of the other way round? Would they fix it for me and still let me keep the discount? I mean HDD for primary and SSD for secondary seems funky... I guess I should just chat with them. Sager's been getting very good ratings. Although recently I've been checking out FORCE 1762 Built on MSI 1762: http://www.xoticpc.com/force-1762-msi-1762-p-4347.html
Since the Sager was going over $1,700 with everything. Does anyone know if they're as good as Sager?

*EDIT: Lol oh wow okay guys I want you guys to follow along something with me.
FORCE 1762 Built on MSI:
- 17.3" FHD 16:9 "Matte Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright LED Matte Screen (1920x1080) (SKU - X1R553)
- FREE - 30 Day "No Dead Pixel" Guarantee w/ ANY Screen Upgrade (XPC Service)
- NO Professional Monitor Color Calibration
- 2nd Generation Intel® Core™ i5-2450M, 2.5-3.1GHz, (32nm, 3MB L3 cache) (Supports up to 8GB - DDR3 1333MHz of Ram (2 SODIMMS)) - Limited Availability (SKU - X2N171)
- IC Diamond Thermal Compound - CPU + GPU (Cools better than all Compounds) (XPC Service)
- nVidia GeForce GTX 675M 2,048MB PCI-Express GDDR5 DX11 (SKU – X3R531)
- No Copper Cooling Upgrade
- No Video Adapter
- No External Mobile Display
- 8GB DDR3 1333MHz Dual Channel Memory - Default (SKU - X4T360)
- Standard Finish
- 500GB 7200RPM 16MB Cache Buffer (Serial-ATA II 3GB/s) (SKU - X5N203) PRIMARY DRIVE
- 128GB Crucial M4 C400 Solid State Drive (Up to Sequential Read 500MB/s - Write 175MB/s SSD Serial-ATA III) (SKU – X5R430) SECOND DRIVE

- HDD Raid Settings - OFF
- Combo Dual Layer SuperMulti DVDRW/CDRW Drive w/ Software (SKU - X7R451)
- No Extra Optical Bay Hard Drive Caddy
- No Back Up Hard Drive
- NO External USB Optical Drive
- Internal 7-in-1 Card Reader (MS/MS Pro/MS Duo/MS Pro Duo/SD/Mini-SD/MMC/RS)
- No Back Up Software
- Bluetooth Included (See “Wireless Network” Section Below)
- Intel® Centrino® Wireless-N 2230 Wireless Card + Bluetooth 4.0 (Single Band) (SKU – X8R010)
- No Network Accessory
- Integrated Digital Video Camera
- No TV Tuner
- Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
- No Carrying Case
- Smart Li-ion Battery (9-Cell)
- No Car Adapter
- No Spare AC Adapter
- No Dock/Hub/Adapter
- No Fingerprint Reader
- No Headset
- No External Keyboard
- Steelseries™ Backlit Keyboard (24 Programmable Color Variations) - Limited Availability
- No External Mouse
- No Notebook Cooler
- No Thanks, Please do not Overclock my system
- No Operating System Redline Boost
- Windows 7 Home Premium - 64-Bit - [ Upgrade to Windows 8 Pro for $14.99 (Directly through Microsoft) ]
- No Antivirus Essentials Software Bundle
- No Office Software
- No Software Bundle
- 1 Year Complete Care Warranty - 1 Year Parts with Ground Shipping, 24/7 Telephone Tech Support & Lifetime Labor Warranty (SKU - X9R000)
- No thanks, standard double boxed packaging is okay with my order
- Standard Production Time
- No Xotic PC Gear
$1,542.00

---------

- 17.3" FHD 16:9 "Matte Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright LED Matte Screen (1920x1080) (SKU - X1R553)
- FREE - 30 Day "No Dead Pixel" Guarantee w/ ANY Screen Upgrade (XPC Service)
- NO Professional Monitor Color Calibration
- 2nd Generation Intel® Core™ i5-2450M, 2.5-3.1GHz, (32nm, 3MB L3 cache) (Supports up to 8GB - DDR3 1333MHz of Ram (2 SODIMMS)) - Limited Availability (SKU - X2N171)
- IC Diamond Thermal Compound - CPU + GPU (Cools better than all Compounds) (XPC Service)
- nVidia GeForce GTX 675M 2,048MB PCI-Express GDDR5 DX11 (SKU – X3R531)
- No Copper Cooling Upgrade
- No Video Adapter
- No External Mobile Display
- 8GB DDR3 1333MHz Dual Channel Memory - Default (SKU - X4T360)
- Standard Finish
- 128GB Crucial M4 C400 Solid State Drive (Up to Sequential Read 500MB/s - Write 175MB/s SSD Serial-ATA III) (SKU – X5R430) PRIMARY DRIVE
- 500GB 7200RPM 16MB Cache Buffer (Serial-ATA II 3GB/s) (SKU - X5R203) SECOND DRIVE
- HDD Raid Settings - OFF
- Combo Dual Layer SuperMulti DVDRW/CDRW Drive w/ Software (SKU - X7R451)
- No Extra Optical Bay Hard Drive Caddy
- No Back Up Hard Drive
- NO External USB Optical Drive
- Internal 7-in-1 Card Reader (MS/MS Pro/MS Duo/MS Pro Duo/SD/Mini-SD/MMC/RS)
- No Back Up Software
- Bluetooth Included (See “Wireless Network” Section Below)
- Intel® Centrino® Wireless-N 2230 Wireless Card + Bluetooth 4.0 (Single Band) (SKU – X8R010)
- No Network Accessory
- Integrated Digital Video Camera
- No TV Tuner
- Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
- No Carrying Case
- Smart Li-ion Battery (9-Cell)
- No Car Adapter
- No Spare AC Adapter
- No Dock/Hub/Adapter
- No Fingerprint Reader
- No Headset
- No External Keyboard
- Steelseries™ Backlit Keyboard (24 Programmable Color Variations) - Limited Availability
- No External Mouse
- No Notebook Cooler
- No Thanks, Please do not Overclock my system
- No Operating System Redline Boost
- Windows 7 Home Premium - 64-Bit - [ Upgrade to Windows 8 Pro for $14.99 (Directly through Microsoft) ]
- No Antivirus Essentials Software Bundle
- No Office Software
- No Software Bundle
- 1 Year Complete Care Warranty - 1 Year Parts with Ground Shipping, 24/7 Telephone Tech Support & Lifetime Labor Warranty (SKU - X9R000)
- No thanks, standard double boxed packaging is okay with my order
- Standard Production Time
- No Xotic PC Gear
$1,597.00

I save $50 if I get an HDD + SSD instead of SSD + HDD! Talk about a little/big saving switch...
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July 30, 2012 6:58:51 AM

i think you are pretty close, so you should call or chat with them and see what they have to say. Make them earn their sale
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