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DOOM guide

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July 29, 2004 4:42:21 PM

[http://www2.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjQ0]
it's here!! On another note i ordered a 6800gt today Woot!

One day i will learn how to make a clicky!<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by rumcooler on 07/29/04 12:43 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

More about : doom guide

a b U Graphics card
July 29, 2004 5:02:30 PM

LOL!

<A HREF="http://www2.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjQ0" target="_new">Your link Clicky</A>

Here's how to make a clicky;

(in this example I'll use < > intsead of [ ])

<url>http://www.google.com&lt;/url>

becomes

<A HREF="http://www.google.com" target="_new">http://www.google.com&lt;/A>

and for the one I put up it's

<url=http://www2.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjQ0&gt;Your link Clicky</url>


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
a b U Graphics card
July 29, 2004 5:06:51 PM

As to the actual Hardware guide. F'in sweet they compared image quality!

Just took a quick glance, Don't have time to read right now at work, but Damn, Lunch is going to be an 'at desk' DQ thing today! :cool:


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
Related resources
July 29, 2004 5:32:27 PM

Rock on :smile: . Hope you enjoy your lunch.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 29, 2004 5:56:01 PM

Smooth
Only thing is I beleive my system to be comparable to that,
<A HREF="http://www2.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjQ0LDk=" target="_new">http://www2.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjQ0LDk=&lt;/A>
only higher cause of the 1ghz FSB and a 250 xtra mhz... Now my vid card is performing faster than a 5950U cause of the OC but it only has 128meg...

Now i wonder if I can still play at these settings.

BFGTech - NVIDIA GPU Video Cards


GeForce FX 5900 Ultra 256MB

Best Playable IQ Settings
Resolution: 1024x768
Texture Quality: High Quality

Im wodnering if ill have to fall back to medium cause I only have 128 meg...

I rember me and other saying to stay away from the 256Meg cards because they didnt offer any performance advantage... It migh be a different story with D3 and newer games with massive amount of textures...

Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-4-4-8, Leadtek FX5900 w/ FX5950U bios@500/1000, 2X30gig Raid0
July 29, 2004 6:25:55 PM

I did the same thing with my card that you did. gainward 5900 flashed to 5950u. It says medium quality for 128 cards but you should be able to play high settings with a little stutter i think if I read it correctly.I am in the nforce2 3200+ list,but i just pre-ordered an evga 6800gt. I should be able to play high settings. Man, i can't wait for this game.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 29, 2004 6:47:14 PM

you didnt need to mention you were getting a 6800gt you b4st4rd!!! hehe
I have some money stashed but I think Ill use it somewhere else..maybe getting a Gt around Xmas could be good specially sicne its like impossible to get GT's here in Montreal, quebec, canada ask TheRod!!!

So once again please dont mention that card ever again!!!
;-)

Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-4-4-8, Leadtek FX5900 w/ FX5950U bios@500/1000, 2X30gig Raid0
a b U Graphics card
July 29, 2004 8:26:13 PM

I'm a little iffy on the X600XT results. I'd like to see other reviews with an Apples to apples comparison. I think they could've done a higher resolution when the avg is 50fps and them min is 24fps?

Too bad they didn't have an FX5200 with 64mb an ULTRA is definitely not the common FX5200, but 256mb is likely the most common, but they have alot of stuff which is nice. We'll see, I'm a little interested in seeing what looks better on the laptop, the not native 640x480 with medium, or 1024x768 native with low. I would expect the later would look better because whatever medium has to offer likely won't make up forthe blur of running non-native.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
July 29, 2004 8:33:24 PM

Yeah, at the same resolution and quality setting, the performance of a 128MB card or its 256MB edition can range from having 7FPS minimum to 20+ FPS minimum!

Now for the first time ever I believe, memory is truly what makes the game! (notice the GT and Ultra aren't so far away in performance really) And to think I used to correct my friends when they often asked me "I want that new 128MB card or that 256MB", by telling them the memory has almost no advantage in current games, it's the actual card's components that do. Man now anyone who looks at a 256MB and doesn't even know which card it is, is gonna enjoy this game! :eek: 

My opinion on this guide though is that it is thorough and definitely satisfying. They might've been too hyper IMO, especially at the 1.5GHZ P4 GF4 MX 440 benchmarks.
The frame rate is really weak for Low Quality 640*480 on that minimum spec system, and their claim that we are likely being conservative at these settings aren't that true, heck we need to reduce even more options to play it at 30FPS average on the minimum spec system!

I know I will likely have less than those benchmarks' performance, but hey, I guess it's to be expected.

The 640*480 resolution image quality was not bad at all, neither the Low Quality settings.

Overall though I know I have to upgrade for the best experience.

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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
July 29, 2004 8:45:35 PM

Yep!
I dont think I will upgrade my vid card for that game. it should still be really nice on my system.
but im the kind of guy who gets bored after 1 week
a few exception got me playing a few month CS/UT/ rainbow six...thats it
Hope Doom3 will keep me hooked a few weeks ;-) but I certainly dont think its worth upgrading a vid card even if I probly could shell 200-300can and upgrade dont think its worth it.

Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-4-4-8, Leadtek FX5900 w/ FX5950U bios@500/1000, 2X30gig Raid0
July 29, 2004 9:00:10 PM

Yeah for me too. I figure if I want to play this game, I don't want to end up getting the best value card only, just because in this game it rocks, but one that is overall seriously superior in all other games. From what I have seen, the 6800 is not THAT good in other games compared to the DOOM III performance. So I am reluctant on that. I guess the GT is the choice card here. Even then though, when the heck are they going to release these cards, and PCI-Express becomes more common?

I'm also not quite sure if I want to upgrade to the 6800 line when they ask for at least 480W PSUs! :eek: 

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July 29, 2004 9:20:35 PM

How to buy a $500 card.
My cousin did this last year, and will do it again.

He bought ATI and Nvidia stocks...enough to give him money to buy 3-4 cards. ATI stocks soar, so did Nvidia's. And you will see a jump in a month when these new games come out.

So buy stocks and get the money spent on the card back.

<i> :eek:  <font color=blue>Futile is resistance,</font color=blue><font color=red> assimilate you we will.</font color=red> :eek:  </i>
July 29, 2004 10:12:35 PM

Something I found intresting was that the 9500Pro, and 9600XT, were demonstrating nearly identical framerates.

I am going try and go for high quality/no AA or AF/1024x768 with my system, which is...
XP2100+ @2800+
R9800
MSI K7N2 Delta-L
768mb of junk memory @6.3.3.2

Whadaya think? :lol: 

<A HREF="http://rmitz.org/AYB3.swf" target="_new">All your base are belong to us.</A>
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=2216718" target="_new"><b>3DMark03</b></A>
July 29, 2004 10:24:51 PM

Isn't your 9800 modded to a pro? you should be alright playing at that level. Maybe 2aa/2af :smile: . guess you can't push your ram anymore. That sucks. I have some kingston value 2700 running at 200@ 7,3,3,2.5. Anything different and i get bsod.
July 29, 2004 10:39:20 PM

i love the broad useage of "modded"


you cannot "mod" a 9800. you cannot "mod" most cards.. tehres only a select few (like a specific model of 9500non-pro for example) that can be modified, because they are actually higher end models with features disabled to fill the supply demand of the lower price range



i got a VGA-Silencer Rev3 on my 9800pro.. i only got it because the cheap Powercolor fan decided to melt in place. thank god running like that for 8 hours didnt kill the GPU(left it on while i was at work)! the only thing i dont like about the Vga-Silencer is it barely moves any air at all, even on high, and the massive heatsink remains pretty warm (gpu is probably 2-3x warmer)

-------
<A HREF="http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/you.html" target="_new">please dont click here! </A>
<A HREF="http://www.subhi.com/keyboard.jpg" target="_new">This is you, interweb junky</A>
July 29, 2004 11:03:26 PM

Quote:
Still running a Geforce3 Ti200 Eden?


Heheh, caught me red-handed there GW!

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July 29, 2004 11:06:46 PM

Quote:
Something I found intresting was that the 9500Pro, and 9600XT, were demonstrating nearly identical framerates.

I partly agree. The 9600XT still has a 22% advantage at minimum frame rates.

I hope the Enpro level test was actually a worst case scenario that really stressed cards and used a difficulty level yeilding a fair amount of monsters.

Can anybody imagine the scare-factor AND performance of a mode like Nightmare? :eek: 

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July 30, 2004 6:02:48 AM

Also wanted to add: Ultra Quality was hyped a lot, but I must admit it has next to no visual advantage. It even seems like the kind of setting that is only perceivable with stills or special visual modifications to track pixel changes.

I'm not even sure what it means to decompress diffuse and specular maps. How DO you compress light? :eek: 

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<font color=red>NNNNNNNNNNNNNNN</font color=green></font color=white><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Eden on 07/30/04 02:03 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
a b U Graphics card
July 30, 2004 6:48:34 AM

The thing I was wondering about that was;

What sense does it make to compress an image (using jpg / maybe altering size) that is supposed to show the difference between compressed and uncompressed images? :lol: 

Also noitce that there are slight shading changes on the shoulder of <A HREF="http://www2.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTA5MDc4NzE0M1..." target="_new">the zombie</A>, but on closer inspection it looks like the body is not at the exact same angle, and that it is a lighting effet.

The only thing I noticed was in <A HREF="http://www2.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTA5MDc4NzE0M1..." target="_new">the example to the left</A> of the zombie, the text on the ads etc seem clearer in UltraHigh, but maybe that's me, upon close inspection with Photoshop LView, they aren't that different. Really it would be nice to have exactly the same images and uncompressed so you could REALLY tell the difference, especially using the difference tools.

But I agree, there is nothing in those limited images from [H] that would motivate me to upgrade from a new 256mb card.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
July 30, 2004 7:25:08 PM

Heck, I was wondering too why compress images that show what compression does!

It really irks me when I see in this day and age, hardware websites like these are STILL catering to 56K users by using very compressed images, when the least they could do is have a full size version of the image, without compression, obviously (like [H] is doing but not quite right). Of course comparing DOOM III image quality results is going to be hard, you can see the compression artifacts everywhere! Uhh, almost hypocritical if you ask me.

THG and other hardware websites should start considering using lesser compression in their images already, we are in an age where high speed internet is much more common. (David Stellmack once replied to me about this inquiry and agreed we should be reducing compression in images as they definitely ruin detail) I can take a detailed 1024*768 digital image with excellent image detail and quality, and it would not pass 400KB.

Though Photoshop tends to overbloat the size of JPEGs for no reason really. Try it with a pic and save it somewhere else, and tell it to compress at the minimum possible, i.e. level 12, and see how it bloats the JPG. You can't increase JPEG quality by just saving it again but with the minimum compression, there's no visual difference!

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<font color=red>NNNNNNNNNNNNNNN</font color=green></font color=white><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Eden on 07/30/04 03:25 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
a b U Graphics card
July 30, 2004 9:08:47 PM

I agree, people who don't have ADSL are not the cuttng edge consumers that [H] and THG are supposedly courting (with their marketing, cause really this is an advertising medium too) in the first place.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
July 30, 2004 10:19:46 PM

Woohoo! Gonna be able to play at 1024x768 at high quality with my 9800Pro...I wonder if 1024x768 on my 17in. will look as bad as 800x600 on my 15in...I imagine it will..:( .

<font color=blue>AthlonXP-M 2500+</font color=blue>
<font color=green>Abit NF7-S</font color=green>
<font color=red>Kingston DDR400 2x256Mb</font color=red>
July 30, 2004 11:01:21 PM

1024*768 IMO has always been more fit for 17" than on a 15", same as 1280*1024 on 19".

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July 31, 2004 2:22:58 AM

Maybe its just me but I did not notice a difference between high quality and ultra quality. I do have a kick-monitor but still cannot. So to hell with spending another 2grand just to get the ultra setting.

Mobile Barton 2500+ @ 2420mhz 11x220 1.7v
Asus A7N8X Dlx 440 FSB
1gb Geil GD pc3500 Dual Channel (2-3-3-6)
Segata 80gb SATA 8.5ms seek
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro to XT(463/795)
July 31, 2004 4:30:18 AM

This is what I posted previously too, that Ultra Quality is just not even perceivable in STILL images!

Let alone the POSSIBLE visual differences seen in the pics taken by [H] and indicated by them, might be caused by either JPEG compression artifacts OR because the angle wasn't the same (they were snapshots of real time gaming, so they tried to recreate the exact position which is nearly impossible), thus lighting changes its effects on textures!

I think in the end it will be a fun novelty for 512MB card users, but other than that, let's be glad it's almost pointless in the end and isn't all that much of a glorious setting in the end, and that High Quality is pretty much the standard kind of graphics quality we would expect from any game really. (as in, not everything is decompressed)

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<font color=red>NNNNNNNNNNNNNNN</font color=green></font color=white><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Eden on 07/31/04 00:48 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
July 31, 2004 4:44:01 AM

DOOM III question:

BTW does anyone know who the monster is, in the DOOM III background image from iD, the one with the hero holding a shotgun and the monster is right behind it, with an open mouth? I believe it's the game's box too. I thought this might be the evolution of the Demon, those pink monsters in the game, that can appear in invisible form too.

This is out of topic a bit, but any ideas what it might be? It definitely is huge in the screenshot, and boy does it look dangerous.

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July 31, 2004 10:17:51 AM

<A HREF="http://d3c.ngz-network.de/article.php?2.255" target="_new">Hell Knight</A>.

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<font color=purple><b>Update:
AthlonXP 1800+ (1.53GHz) to AthlonXP 300+ (0.55GHz) on air. Underclock successful :) .</b></font color=purple>
July 31, 2004 4:13:24 PM

Very weird, the Hell Knight in DOOM III doesn't look one bit like the minotaur-like HK of DOOM II!

Nice link though, I didn't know they had a table of monsters already. The Arch-Vile freaks me out though. :eek: 

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July 31, 2004 4:16:48 PM

I dunno if it's my connection lately or your link, but I can't get to your pic link!

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July 31, 2004 5:57:59 PM

<A HREF="http://www.filerush.com/torrents/d3pcdownloadfinal.mov...." target="_new">Heres</A> the bittorrent link for the final doom3 trailer.

Though the graphics of doom are good, but I noticed that HL2 looks more realistic. Its like a difference between an animation and a real movie. No doubt Doom3 has very good effects but they look cartoonish rather than enviromental and natural like FarCry or HL2.

Maybe Doom3 looks more real (not the story/characters but graphics wise) when one plays it. But then I can notice the difference within videos/trailers itself.

Will hav to wait and see.

<i> :eek:  <font color=blue>Futile is resistance,</font color=blue><font color=red> assimilate you we will.</font color=red> :eek:  </i>
July 31, 2004 7:58:33 PM

Doom 3 look better than hl2 imho

Athlon 2700xp+ (oc: 3200xp+ with 200fsb)
Radeon 9800pro (oc: 410/360)
1024mb pc3200 (5-3-3-2)
Asus A7N8X-X
July 31, 2004 8:09:19 PM

i dont know abt that...somewhere I had seen a poll for the same...and people voted more for HL2...will try finding it.

<i> :eek:  <font color=blue>Futile is resistance,</font color=blue><font color=red> assimilate you we will.</font color=red> :eek:  </i>
a b U Graphics card
July 31, 2004 9:25:29 PM

Nice layout you have their for the photo. Shows that you pre-orderededed D3, you have an ATI card in your rig that requires serious stock cooling so it must me good, a few heatsink parts strewn here and there, plus a ziplock with some thermal compund/epoxy and maybe a little Crack for them late night frag sessions. :evil:  ).

And tell me that's the bottom of an MX500 in the bottom right. Well I'll just imagine it is even if it isn't, cause it completes the 'gamer in preparation' theme of your picture. You capture the pure essence of it all, very moving. :lol: 

<b>Eden</b>, Link works for me man, no problems here as you can tell by the description. OF course a better quality camera would be nice. :wink:


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
a b U Graphics card
July 31, 2004 9:36:06 PM

I find D3 looks better, but likely HL2 will give more gameplay and more tactics.

D3 I see as reactionary (you follow a fairly linear path and react to what's thrown at you).

Whereas I see HL2 as being more involved and little more open ended.

But still D3 LOOKS better to me I have see no game look like it yet, whereas HL2 is very close to what I've seen elsewhere. But of course that may just be me, or simply the quality of the previews we've seen so far.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
July 31, 2004 11:49:05 PM

heard rumors that D3 is in a few stores today...a source from california.

<i> :eek:  <font color=blue>Futile is resistance,</font color=blue><font color=red> assimilate you we will.</font color=red> :eek:  </i>
a b U Graphics card
August 1, 2004 1:36:59 AM

It'd be nice to have now, but with the long weekend in Canada, I'd likely have it completed before the release date if I could've bought it today! :lol: 


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
a b U Graphics card
August 1, 2004 2:58:12 AM

After looking forward to this guide all week, I got swamped with work the day it came out. Definately some good info, although their framerates at times seem below what I'd call playable. But maybe occassional drops to 20fps doesn't hurt the D3 experience.

Maybe it's just me, but Another thing that jumped out at me and was a surprise, was that the XP3200+ NF2 paired with the R9800Pro 128MB could be set to 1024 high, but the P4 3.0C R9800P 128MB was 1024 Medium. Since when does an AXP3200+ perform > P4 3.0C????? Odd. XP3200 is <= 2.8C IMO. It will be intersting to see first hand. If My 2.6C can't allow 1024 high even OC'ed, then I'll have to swap the the R9800P into the Mobile XP2500+ OC'ed system again. I'd like to be able to play 1024high or 1280med, whichever looks better to me.


ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 1GB Corsair XMS 4000 Pro Series, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
August 1, 2004 4:33:25 AM

thats strange...

Athlon 2700xp+ (oc: 3200xp+ with 200fsb)
Radeon 9800pro (oc: 410/360)
1024mb pc3200 (5-3-3-2)
Asus A7N8X-X
August 1, 2004 6:47:48 AM

I finally got the link to work. Yeah GW, what in the world do you have there!

Sweet!

I have to agree on the graphics. I see HL2 as open ended because it basically does revolve around open areas, and therefore gives a nice outside feeling. DOOM III will recreate the whole experience about being "stuck" inside a facility, a world in itself.

I think Carmack can anyday match or do better than Newell, but I also think Newell's team will give us an equally pleasing experience. Both games, let's be fair, have their own advantages and thus each will provide the most fun gaming possible.

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August 1, 2004 6:48:53 AM

Yeah I noticed that the P4s seemed to lag behind. Not sure why Carmack hasn't optimized for them. Could it be the P4's lower IPC, which hurts the sound processing, given that they're counting a lot on the CPU to process sounds?

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August 1, 2004 4:50:47 PM

Hey guys, I was looking at the Best Buy catalog that came in the Sunday paper, and sure enough, Doom on the front page, and it says that it's available on <i><b>Wed., Aug 11!?!</i></b> If I had pre-purchased it there I'd be really, really pissed off- that's a whole week late. EB has it on Tuesday afternoon...
August 1, 2004 6:50:32 PM

So I find the X800 results very interesting... I don't know much about Doom3's engine or optimizations, but why is the Nvidia line doing so much better?

And is it something that can be fixed by a driver update?
August 1, 2004 7:48:33 PM

Well, because the 6800GT/U are both extremely powerful, but also because nVidia's drivers have always had excellent performance in OpenGL apps. I heard that ATi is overhauling the OpenGL part of their Cat. drivers, and there should be big improvements in the next month or two. Check out <A HREF="http://www.teamradeon.com/" target="_new">ATi's response</A>to the benchmarks. (Scroll down to read it)
August 1, 2004 10:19:37 PM

Its sad that DOOM3 has already flooded bittorrent/p2p networks even before release.

<i> :eek:  <font color=blue>Futile is resistance,</font color=blue><font color=red> assimilate you we will.</font color=red> :eek:  </i>
August 1, 2004 11:51:11 PM

I know, it's really f*'in lame that it happened. I didn't believe it for a while, but I realized earlier that it was true. Some people will jump on the opportunity to download it, but I think most people will just wait <b>two</b> days for it, like me. It's one thing if people purchased it legitimately, but then re-distributing it before it's official launch? I'm not going to dishonor id software for five years of hard work, I'll wait until Tuesday. Just another reason why I hate Best Buy.
August 2, 2004 3:07:43 AM

Yeah I agree, this is one game I feel is just plain mean to go distribute it like that.

My only reason to do this though would be for self-evaluation, where you agree to play it for about 24 hours tops and see if you want to buy it (like a free test drive really). That's a bit like game ROMs.

But to just get it for free? I'm not with this one, not a game where Carmack has done his utmost best.

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August 2, 2004 3:09:48 AM

It is in major part also due to the Ultra Shadow II optimizations.

Some here will also say the new OpenGL updates to the ATi drivers won't come in as much help. So it seems it might be an issue that can't be helped a lot with the X800s. ATi will likely just release a new card with an Ultra Shadow-like technology which will likely help them big time.

Then again, as many would say: Don't just look at DOOM III performance, look at the big picture: the X800 is overall a serious powerhouse in the majority of the games benchmarked!

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