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open source gaming

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  • Open Source
  • Linux
Last response: in Linux/Free BSD
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July 17, 2003 7:07:33 PM

I enjoyed reading Mr. Rahmat's Column on Open Source Hardware, but laugh at the notion that Linux can make any impact on the gaming community. I love Linux, but the gaming community isnt ready TO SUPPORT IT! When is EA and the rest going to port BF1942, UT, GTA and the rest over to the Linux platform for us players? Never from what I can tell. And until they do its hard to justify leaving Microsoft.

Who's UR daddy?

More about : open source gaming

July 18, 2003 6:08:05 PM

I run linux, support open source, and run alot of games (mostly big titles) without any problem on my penguin. More companies are building ports and installers for the games we play as time goes on and in the future, as I feel was the authors original intent, we'll be seen alot more "backyard" game programmers operating as a community and developing games that we can all enjoy. I agree that it is disappointing that I can't run some of the cool Windows games, but what made PC computing "sexy" to me was how most of the games were customizable (sp?). I think that open source gaming will grant a whole new level of customization cosmetic or functional. When people truely want that power, thats when it will start to take off. After that, the hardware industry will have alot more development worries than just a few thousand programmers pushing for advancement.
July 21, 2003 6:40:53 AM

If only the linux community could make an impact on game pricing..
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July 21, 2003 12:28:06 PM

I dont know about that. But I am sure that including them in the pool of active customers would boost delivery volume significantly.

Who's UR daddy?
July 26, 2003 11:57:31 AM

I doubt that. Most keen gamers that use Linux have a Windows box, or Wine-X or whatever anyway. I suspect the same would apply to Mac users too.

<i>Knock Knock, Neo</i>
August 2, 2003 5:15:42 AM

acctually ut2003 and the original (i dont have it but am pretty sure) do run on linux.
August 3, 2003 1:23:04 AM

Out of the box? Tell me more...

Who's UR daddy?
August 3, 2003 6:23:27 PM

I couldnt tell you the specifics, being that i dont have linux running, but i do have ut2003 and know people that run it on linux. I think the installer is on disc 3 (couldnt tell you any more than that, i dont know the specifics of how linux installers work)
August 8, 2003 1:06:40 PM

UT, Quake 3 Arena, UT2K3 are all supported in Linux for server application. Also, if you get Quake 3 windows version you can download the playable linux version for free from their website if you register your product. I also know that during a couple of distros earlier this year before UT2K3 came out, they had a running demo that came packaged with new released distros of linux. I assume there is a working copy out there now.
Despite the lack of support at the current time for games in a linux environment I believe that games will continue to migrate as usage of Linux as a core operating system grows. As for me, I love the fact that I can have my Linux UT Server up and running all the time with 8-16 people playing on it only using 5% of the CPU...it's just so efficient for both bandwidth and CPU usage. I mean, how many windows users can say they have an ftp server, UT server, Neverwinter Nights server, and NOLF server all running at the same time and are still able to surf the net at 2.9 megabits/sec ? Linux server application rewlz

<font color=blue>Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals... except the weasel. </font color=blue>
<font color=green>Homer Simpson</font color=green>

TKS
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by tks on 08/08/03 05:11 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
August 28, 2003 4:52:48 AM

At least ID usually have Linux ports...

Dev

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August 28, 2003 4:58:32 AM

I am unsure what you mean. Can you expand on that thought?

Screw the S.C.O.!!
August 28, 2003 6:03:51 AM

I think he's referring to ID Software sometimes having a Linux version of their games.

<i>Knock Knock, Neo</i>
August 28, 2003 7:02:55 AM

Of course. How silly. Too much beer.

I am glad ID Software is supportive of The Revolution. Perhaps they will set an example for the rest.

Screw the S.C.O.!!
August 28, 2003 9:28:14 AM

Hopefully. Others have come and gone, but probably it was a timing issue. A year from now, I expect the Linux gaming market to be commercially viable without resorting to WineX and similar. The catch is that you really need to build a game to be portable - something many games houses will need to learn.

<i>Knock Knock, Neo</i>
August 28, 2003 1:30:18 PM

You are not the first commentator to mention WineX. Does it work worth a darn? My IT associates scoff at the Mac-Windows emulators, and so I have low expectations for the same in Linux.

Screw the S.C.O.!!
August 28, 2003 1:38:39 PM

Honesty, I can't say - I've not used it, at least not for gaming. It seems ok for some apps, but I've always had problems with installers and assorted small bugs. Still, if you're paying for it through transgaming, it's reasonable to expect things to work.

The Mac-Windows emulators are emulating a whole PC, while Wine and co are "only" translating Windows API calls. The speed isn't reduced the way it is with Mac-Windows emulators. Having said that, I actually think the Mac-Windows emulators do a pretty good job.

<i>Knock Knock, Neo</i>
August 28, 2003 1:57:43 PM

Okay. I guess there is only one way to find out, then. Try it myself. Which Linux->Windows emulator would you recommend? And is it required during the installation as well? (That could get hairy)

Screw the S.C.O.!!<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by jrybon on 08/28/03 09:58 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
August 28, 2003 2:01:56 PM

For gaming, probably WineX is the one to try first. You can either download source from their site, or pay the dollars.

<i>Knock Knock, Neo</i>
September 6, 2003 6:34:33 PM

Linux gaming will never be mainstream, since Linux will never be mainstream. Linux biggest qualities are it's biggest flaws too. Everything is too fragmented. You have QT, GTK, KDE, tons of desktop, without standardization, linux won't leave the server market. I M$ did someting well, is imposing a standard. Without a standard everyone agrees, ( at least for a default installation ) linux won't go anywhere. It's a shame but think about it.
September 7, 2003 4:52:18 AM

I know what you're saying, but I disagree. Yes, I've thought about it.

Linux has long since left the server market. It's in serious use in the embedded area, and is gaining ground in the professional workstation market taking over from the traditional workstation Unices.

Standards have been in place for a few years. There is of course the FHS and United Linux was a good idea too - shame about Caldera/SCO throwing a spanner in the works there, but the mainstream distros are aware of the issue and have made efforts to be compatible.

The KDE and Gnome camps have been working together to some degree, but as you know, they are just libraries and frameworks. RedHat demostrated with Blue Curve that they can play nicely with each other.

IMO, most users don't much care about standardisation as long as their desktop looks pretty and they can install and use their apps easily. Vendors releasing (supported) binary applications target a specific version of Linux, usually a RedHat release, as their minimum version. I don't see this as being much different to a Windows application vendor specifying Windows 2000 Service Pack 1 as their minimum version.

You will never get <i>everyone</i> agreeing to standard due to specialist distros having special needs, but the mainstream distros already have - more or less. I've heard the argument about fragmentation before, and while it's right when you look at all of the components out there, if you look at a default distro installation, or at something like Ximian Desktop, you can see it as a whole working together.

If you wanted to, you could view Windows in the same light - you can get LiteStep for Windows if you want, you can change the appearance of the XP desktop, there's a bunch of browser, office suites, email apps, whatever, but most folks go with the MS supplied defaults. If you apply the same to a Linux distro, what's the difference? Sounds like you're a little overwhelmed by the choices out there.

<i>Knock Knock, Neo</i>
Anonymous
a b 4 Gaming
September 7, 2003 1:17:15 PM

I have to agree with poorboy. As useres become more computer savvy, and linux becomes more user friendly, you'll start to see it on more desktops. I don't think linux will be on half of all computers, or anything, but it will certainly be on more. I wish that I hadn't taken so long to get linux.

_________________________
Your arrogance is boring!
September 13, 2003 12:52:55 AM

I really really hope that games like HL2 can run in OpenGL so you can play them in linux too. Honestly I can't think of very many games I play anymore with the exception of CS (which runs in linux via wine). No real reason for me to stay with XP much longer.

Some day I'll be rich and famous for inventing a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet.
September 16, 2003 1:05:52 AM

Gaming under linux has nothing to do with KDE, Gnome, different desktops. Games like q3 and ut2k3 all run under the quite standard opengl libs. You don't write games for linux to be kde compatible. It basically comes down to the fact that there's hardly a market for these games, which is why (for the most part) only big name titles are ported.

On the other hand, Loki Games (www.lokigames.com) have been porting titles and have been in business awhile so at least there's some interest.
October 3, 2003 6:54:52 PM

More good news! Slashdot recently posted the following article: "A new 64-bit Linux CD can instantly turn an AMD Opteron-equipped PC into the ultimate gaming console, according to Super Computer Inc. (SCI). The company has created a distribution of the popular America's Army multi-player strategy game on a bootable Linux CD, that it says was developed in partnership with AMD, nVidia, and the US Army."

Too cool. I am guessing it runs without touching the installed os, like the Knoppix Boot Disk. Unfortunately it seems to be a difficult item to come by.

Screw the S.C.O.!!
October 4, 2003 11:42:55 PM

Quote:
I really really hope that games like HL2 can run in OpenGL so you can play them in linux too

You might, as with many other current games, but it wont look and be as good. Microsoft really has their grip on our necks, not only because of windows, but also directX. Even if the overwhelming problem of the OS compatibility is solved, the directX is a big issue too. It is actually a pretty good "engine" if i may say so, that will be hard for programmers to leave. I know there are programs like WineX to emulate it, but it will never keep up. As for now, DirectX is the way to go, and not openGL. Another point is the hardware, that is perfectly compatible with windows and directX and are engineered exaclty for that. It is a vicious circle that if we want to break, all three must be broken, windows, hardware and directX. I believe linux is a long way from being good for gaming.

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My computer is so fast it proves the theory of relativity wrong... :eek: 
October 5, 2003 6:35:02 AM

I've heard from a lot of 3d programmers I've run into that OpenGL is better to program in. Adding lights for example takes only one line of code in OpenGL, but you have to do a ton of things in dx to get a light. If a game has the option to run in OpenGL I always take it.

Some day I'll be rich and famous for inventing a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet.
October 5, 2003 6:00:24 PM

u would run opengl instead of direct3d?

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My computer is so fast it proves the theory of relativity wrong... :eek: 
October 5, 2003 7:46:43 PM

When I have the option sure. Halflife/CS runs in OpenGL for me even though I have the choice for D3D.

Some day I'll be rich and famous for inventing a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet.
October 6, 2003 4:28:24 PM

why though?

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My computer is so fast it proves the theory of relativity wrong... :eek: 
October 9, 2003 3:39:27 AM

I would just like to add my 2c to this thread. UT installer can be found at ftp.lokigames.com
Also, www.tuxgames.com is the place for current crop of commercial linux games.
openGL typically runs faster than D3D and usually looks better in the games that support both api's, although sometimes there is no difference but framerate's.
I decided to try linux about 4 months ago now and I am glad I did. My main interest though was games. So I bought alot of the games from tuxgames. Now that I have my collection of games rebuilt in the hand of linux and with new games constantly coming out for linux, like NWN and Savage, Doom3, UT2k3 (btw, the linux installer is on disc 3 for the client), I have made a personal choice to not support any game company that does not make games for linux. I will not host games on linux that do not have a linux client. Like I said these are all personal choices, so currently Blizzard sucks, so does valve, if they do not put out native linux clients. Sorry if I offend, but I have been burned to many times in winda$$ and if the game companies have to suffer with MS then so be it.

Sorry, got carried away there, but I have pretty strong feelings with game companies that don't support linux.
October 9, 2003 6:16:06 AM

A few reasons.

1. To keep MS from dominating the 3d market too. OpenGL is open to everyone, it runs on all platforms.

2. It usually runs faster. I hear it's more efficient than DX, easier to code in, and just overall a nicer api.

Some day I'll be rich and famous for inventing a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet.
October 9, 2003 11:59:03 AM

well yea, if u run linux, you have to run opengl, unless you get winex and use their crap directx support

it might run faster, but if you have a good graphics card, the extra speed is pointless, but your games will look worse since games today are programmed using DX9 standards, there might be stuff youre missing if u use opengl, like effects, shaders, etc. Also notice directx9 is not only visual, but also audio, net gaming capabilities, and others.

yes i agree, its a nicer api and easier to code in, but after all we arent coders and we dont really care, at least i dont, as long as one functions better. and by not using dx9, you arent preventing MS from dominating because first, MS doesnt make money from you by giving you DX9, they make money off the developers. Second, the developers will always include DX9 (or subsequent versions) but not always opengl. Third, if you use windows, you are still using dx9 in some way or the other, like for sounds in games, and some net playing capabilities as DirectPlay.

Again, im not a MS defender and i wish they could rot in satan´s anus, but unfortunately for now, thats how it is.

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My computer is so fast it proves the theory of relativity wrong... :eek: 
October 10, 2003 12:51:44 PM

I usually Run OGL since Ive heard that nvidia cards tend to run better on OpenGL than they do on DX, and since I have a GF4 I thought it would make sense.

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6752830" target="_new">Yay, I Finally broke the 12k barrier!!</A>
October 10, 2003 4:03:48 PM

thats why next time, you should go for an ati :smile:

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My computer is so fast it proves the theory of relativity wrong... :eek: 
October 11, 2003 3:29:21 AM

OpenGL can easily add all of those extra shaders etc.

And in linux, of course I run OpenGL, but I also run windows, and choose OpenGL when I can.

And sure, while MS doens't make money off of DX, if OpenGL dies, then ALL games have to be run under DX, which means that ALL games will have to run on a windows OS, thereby giving MS control over the gaming industry to some extent. That means no linux games and that is a large reason why many people haven't migrated over.

Some day I'll be rich and famous for inventing a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet.
October 11, 2003 8:51:08 AM

OpenGL will be around as long as there is a professional graphics industry. DirectX is pretty much only used for Windows gaming. The <A HREF="http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/quartzextreme/" target="_new">rest</A> of the <A HREF="http://www.opengl.org/index.html" target="_new">world</A> is using <A HREF="http://www.sgi.com/software/opengl/" target="_new">OpenGL</A>. The "missing" shaders and things can be added with vendor extensions, and I'd be suprised if Nvidia hasn't got most of the gaming related ones already.

Re the sounds and other support from DirectX, <A HREF="http://www.openal.org/#AboutOpenAL" target="_new">OpenAL</A> address the audio aspects, and there are several higher level libraries which address control input as well. Most of these are x-platform as well.


<i>Knock Knock, Neo</i>
October 11, 2003 6:51:50 PM

Yeah, true, OpenGL will always be around, but I meant mainly OpenGL for gaming. It might come to be that OpenGL becomes a professional only API, giving MS and DX the hand over games. I've never had rendering problems, artifacts, missing textures, or crashing games running OpenGL, which is more than I can say about directx.

Some day I'll be rich and famous for inventing a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet.
October 13, 2003 5:04:57 AM

I wonder what API game console (eg PS2) developers use? It would be reasonable to assume that if it's OpenGL, that makes it easier to write code for multiple consoles...

<i>Knock Knock, Neo</i>
October 13, 2003 5:19:49 AM

I assume it would be... Although I'm guessing the Xbox uses DX.

What a freaking piss off. Half of my D3D games just decided to stop working. No BF1942, no Halo. Q3 still runs like a champ, and so does CS.

Some day I'll be rich and famous for inventing a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet.
October 14, 2003 12:10:06 AM

PS2 uses custom libraries. Theres an OpenGL API in development, I think.

<b><font color=red>They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.</font color=red></b>
January 22, 2009 4:08:05 PM

silverpig said:
I assume it would be... Although I'm guessing the Xbox uses DX.

What a freaking piss off. Half of my D3D games just decided to stop working. No BF1942, no Halo. Q3 still runs like a champ, and so does CS.

Some day I'll be rich and famous for inventing a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet.


Yes the Xbox does use a special "tweaked" version of DX.

Invent that device and I'm sure you will be rich, very rich indeed :D 
a b 5 Linux
January 22, 2009 5:41:05 PM

Do you think that people really want to see a six year old thread dug up from the dead??
January 22, 2009 5:53:33 PM

hmm, didn't look at the dates, just clicked on a link on the right hand side which took me here. Sorry everyone :\
a b 5 Linux
January 22, 2009 8:07:26 PM

The forum does indeed have a tendency to put up ancient threads in the pane on the right so it keeps digging up really old threads.
a b 5 Linux
January 24, 2009 10:05:45 AM

And don't even get me started on this 'Thread does not exist' crap if you don't click on the main article title... [/Rant]

@De.._UK - Don't worry about it, we had a 9 year old post brought back to life the other day in another section, it was like watching in black and white as some of the REALLY old faces names appeared again..
a b 5 Linux
January 24, 2009 11:41:41 AM

hehe...

It's amazing...
a b 5 Linux
January 24, 2009 2:25:19 PM

@amdfangirl

It was like an early Mickey Mouse cartoon "Steam Boat Wingding" ;) 
January 24, 2009 2:50:51 PM

Lets do the Time Warp Agaain..

Oops, showing my age!
a b 5 Linux
January 24, 2009 4:23:19 PM

Awww.. you sweet transvestite :p 
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