Help...PCI cards -WHICH ONES?-

[murdoc460]

Are There any good PCI graphic cards? Through what Ive read I cant find any that are worth buying. I tried looking for the best one but I cant decide on which one is better then the other. If there are any good PCI cards that anyone knows about that will go VERY good with gaming please help me out. Im open to all suggstions. Thanks.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by murdoc460 on 08/08/04 04:05 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[TheRod]

you can't find good video card for gaming in the PCI format. The best you can find is Radeon 9200 I think. Which is not very good for today's game!

--
A7N8X / <font color=green><b>AMD Sempron 2800+</b></font color=green>
Kingston DDR333 2x256Megs
<font color=red>Radeon 8500 128Megs</font color=red> @ C:275/M:290

 

[murdoc460]

So the Radeon 9200 is the best PCI graphics card out? In that case does that mean I should just buy it considering I need one or are there any other PCI cards out that I should be looking at? What about the GeForce FX5200 and others such as that...And would it make a card better to have 256mb instead of 128mb? Example : radeon 9200/GeForce FX5200/ etc.. - 128mb compared to a 256mb.
-Sorry for all the questions but I have no idea what Im doing...Thanks

 

[pauldh]

What do you hope to do with it? What is the rest of the system?

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 1GB Corsair XMS 4000 Pro Series, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt

 

[pauldh]

You aren't going to get much gaming performance out of any of them. I'd buy a cheap one, and Save up and go for an AGP system. CompUSA has a <A HREF="http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?&ref=cj&pfp=cj&product_code=304884" target="_new">Radeon 7500 64MB DDR PCI Card for $30</A>


ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 1GB Corsair XMS 4000 Pro Series, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt

 

[murdoc460]

I need it so that I can play computer games. I have basically a brand new dell and when I play certain games it just looks like blocks running around the screen. So what I want to do is find out some of the best/better PCI cards to replace the original one.Its a 2400 series,p4,windows xp pro,2.2ghz,256mb of ram, and my video card is a world
renowned award winning "integrated Intel 3D Extreme Graphics" card. I dont know what else to tell you about this computer but if yu need to know more yu will have to be more specific,sorry.
Thanks for the help.

-And im going to be stuck with this computer for a while so Im going to need to do something about this. That's why I think I should just put in the money for one of the best PCI cards that i can get.

-So can anyone please help me pick out the latest and best PCI grpahics card. I would greatly appreciate it.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by murdoc460 on 08/08/04 07:49 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[priyajeet]

I am slightly confused. U want a PCI card ?
Y ? If u have a latest Dell, doesnt that have an AGP slot ?

<i> <font color=blue>Futile is resistance,</font color=blue><font color=red> assimilate you we will.</font color=red> </i>
<b>Hard work has a future payoff. Laziness pays off now.</b>

 

[murdoc460]

sorry i wasnt completely honest about it being new... i got it last August and it does not have an AGP slot. Any suggestions on what I should do concerning PCI card?

 

[TheRod]

Avoid GeForce FX 5200 they really sucks!

Your best bet is a Radeon 9200 with 64Megs or 128Megs of RAM. But be aware that a Radeon 9200 can be slower than a Radeon 8500 and it is most of the slower than a GeForce 4 TI 4200. At this performance level 128Megs of RAM don't mean much!

If you can buy a Radeon 9200 not a Radeon 9200SE you would be better served.

--
A7N8X / <font color=green><b>AMD Sempron 2800+</b></font color=green>
Kingston DDR333 2x256Megs
<font color=red>Radeon 8500 128Megs</font color=red> @ C:275/M:290

 

[priyajeet]

Do u have money to spend on a mobo ? If yes get a mobo that fits the dell and then buy an AGP card. I really have no idea how well the PCI cards work with the latest games.

<i> <font color=blue>Futile is resistance,</font color=blue><font color=red> assimilate you we will.</font color=red> </i>
<b>Hard work has a future payoff. Laziness pays off now.</b>

 

[murdoc460]

Thanks man I really appreciate it!

Does anyone else have anything different or better that they would suggest or should I go with the Radeon 9200?

-I was thinking of changing the mobo but I dont have enough $$$. So it definately sux for me!<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by murdoc460 on 08/08/04 08:25 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[pauldh]

Dell's value line never has an AGP slot. They also sell them with 128MB shared ram(shared with integrated video) and Windows XP. What a winning combo. Unfortunately one of the worst possible P4 gaming machines he could own.


ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 1GB Corsair XMS 4000 Pro Series, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt

 

[murdoc460]

I AGREE!!

 

[priyajeet]

thats too bad. Though they want to be part of the gaming community <A HREF="http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/08/08/140233&tid=137&tid=1&tid=218" target="_new">more</A>.

<i> <font color=blue>Futile is resistance,</font color=blue><font color=red> assimilate you we will.</font color=red> </i>
<b>Hard work has a future payoff. Laziness pays off now.</b>

 

[pauldh]

I'd suggest buying the $30 Radeon 7500 from compusa if you have one nearby. Try it out, if it sucks, return it. Then buy a R9200 at a retail store, and if it still sucks, return it. Buying online, you will be stuck with it or pay a restocking fee. It would stink to spend $90 on a slow PCI card and hate it.


I'd replace the mobo now, but maybe get the $30 R7500 and replace the mobo when your Dell warranty/service agreement is up.

Tough call, unfortunately, that Dell 2400 is a pitiful gamer and not upgradeable. One to avoid for sure. Glad you got 256MB of ram though as 128MB shared mem and win xp is a combo Dell should be ashamed to offer. Even with an AGP video card, I won't sell a Win XP machine with less than 256MB.


ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 1GB Corsair XMS 4000 Pro Series, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt

 

[pauldh]

Here is a review for you. Read the intro, does it sound familar :frown: .

<A HREF="http://www.sudhian.com/showdocs.cfm?aid=445" target="_new">http://www.sudhian.com/showdocs.cfm?aid=445</A>

Looks like the best gaming PCI cards are the FX5600 and Radeon 9100. Not sure if you can find them. The plain R9200 isn't in the test, but the 9100's in AGP outperform the 9200's.

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 1GB Corsair XMS 4000 Pro Series, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt

 

[pauldh]

I'd go for this card. Never bought from this site though. But this card did as good as a PCI card can do in that review, and it isn't priced too bad.

<A HREF="http://www.shentech.com/vixt91ra91pr1.html" target="_new">http://www.shentech.com/vixt91ra91pr1.html</A>

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 1GB Corsair XMS 4000 Pro Series, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt

 

[murdoc460]

Alrite Im just going to settle with the Radeon 9200.

But I have one more question before I order it. There are 3 different types that I found:

(1) POWERCOLOR ATI RADEON 9200 256MB DDR PCI
(2) VisionTec Xtasy Radeon 9200 256MB DDR PCI
(3) Radeon 9200 128MB DDR PCI (Regular)

Basically I do not understand what the powercolor and VisionTec infront of the words mean. Are they any different from eachother? Or does the name infront mean absolutely nothing?

So just tell me what you guys think (which one is better).
Thanks again!

And i definately appreciate the help Pauldh!

 

[pauldh]

Powercolor and Visiontek are the manufacturers of the card. They are powered by ATI but built by the name in front. Your warranty will come fromthe manufacturer. ATI could mean Built By ATI(BBA). This means it was made by ATI or Saphire, but ATI is giving you the warranty. Retail Box BBA usually have a 3 year warranty.

IMHO, 256MB of ram on these cards is overkill. Those cards you linked to are all about $100 right? Too much IMO. I doubt that a 256MB R9200 PCI will outperform a 64MB R9100 PCI in almost any test. And it cost twice as much. Something to think about. If I had to wager, I'd say the 64MB 9100 would be faster in most cases. Just my guess.


Anyway, look at the warranty, and also the specs for the card. A 128 bit memory interface will outperform a 64-bit memory interface. So in this case, look for a 128-bit and avoid the 64-bit.

Also look at the clock speeds. More important than the amount of ram is the speed of the ram. Thses cards should be clocked around 250Mhz core and 400Mhz memory. The higher the better. If that R9100 is 250/500, It would be quicker I bet than the others. It's basically a Radeon 8500LE PCI card.


ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 1GB Corsair XMS 4000 Pro Series, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt

 

[murdoc460]

Hmmm..I definately agree with you on the R9100, but there is a minor difference between the R9100 and R9200. If it even means anything. The different Direct X's they both support, the DDR2(R9200) and the DDR(R9100), and the OpenGL. Is it possible for me to upgrade my directX and OpenGL to the higher one's of the 9200.If not would it even matter? and DDR and DDR2 will the difference matter there aswell. Or would it still be best just to stay with R9100.

R9200: API Support: DirectX¨ 9.0, OpenGL¨
256MB DDR-II Memory

R9100: API Support: DirectX® 8.1, OpenGL® 1.3
128MB DDR Memory

...I swear this is my last question...
THANKS

 

[evolv]

You know, i'm glad i found this thread. I came here specifically to ask this question myself. I myself am in almost your exact situation...

Ordered the Dell 2400 series, (not even realizing that it has no AGP slot because they do not list this), well when i got it, I figured the integrated would work for a while until i had cash to upgrade the card. Well lo and behold, the motherboard has no AGP slot... DRAT!

Anyways, my situation vary's only slightly. I have already in my possesion a GeForce FX 5200 *AGP* card.

Now, on to my specific question.

First of all, I am only slightly knowledgeable in computer hardware, so that's why I came here, to get advice from some more experienced people. Also, I am on a budget, which is why I need to buy the inexpensive solutions.

I tried to do a little research, it looks like I can get a new motherboard, that seemingly will match my RAM and processor, which also includes an AGP slot for about 50-70$.

I could also buy a PCI card which would fit my current setup, and i would not have to worry about my RAM or processor not matching the motherboard. Apparently from the advice given to the original poster, a PCI card would run about 30-50$.

Keep in mind i already have the AGP version of the GeForce FX 5200 (128mb).

My question is, is the difference in performance enough to take the risk on buying a motherboard with an AGP slot, that i might have problems matching up with my RAM and processor and everything else; or should I just buy a PCI card and pop it in without worrying about that stuff?

(Mainly the problem I am having is I am paranoid I will get the motherboard and I switch everything to it and install it and all this stuff, and then the computer will not work. - I have installed RAM, video cards, modems, sound cards, hard drives etc, but I have never had to make a motherboard change yet, so I am a little worried.)

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: P.S. If someone happens to know of a good motherboard that will match my setup, please do make a suggestion. Here is a link to the Dell page with pretty much the same system.

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/featured_desktop1?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by evolv on 08/10/04 05:03 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[spitoon]

evolv - I would recommend buying the new mobo...just do the research and ensure that you will be able to use your current processor and memory...you will be much happier with the results and it's really not going to cost you much more, since you already own an AGP card.

All things being equal, the AGP 5200 that you own, while being a relatively weak vid card, will outperform any PCI card you can find. So you may as well spend your $50-$70 on a better mobo, rather than spending $50+ on a PCI video card that isn't going to perform very well anyways...

Also, down the road if your budget allows, you could pop a new AGP card in (maybe an FX5900, or 9800 Pro, or even higher) and have a pretty good combination.

 

[pauldh]

Actually, the Radeon 8500, 8500LE, 9100, and 9200 are all DX8.1 hardware not DX9. You can play DX9 games on all of them, you just lose the ability to show some of the DX9 effects. But even the FX5200, while being DX9, is too slow to be able to enjoy any of the eye candy DX9 has to offer.

Offhand, I have never seen a 9200 with DDR2. But it isn't going to be any faster than the DDR on the 9100. Typically the 9100's mem is clocked higher.



ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 1GB Corsair XMS 4000 Pro Series, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt

 

[pauldh]

Yeah, too bad it's an FX5200.

Obviously, your Dell support/warranty is gone once you upgrade that motherboard. But realistically, how good was that support anyway.

I'd upgrade the mobo in a second if I were in your shoes. The Abit IS7 is a nice P4 mobo that can support your 533 bus cpu as well as the 800 bus ones. Just make sure the cpu isn't a 400 bus (older Dell).

Anyway, the main thing to check is the type of motherboard/power supply you have. You probably have a ATX power supply, but is the current motherboard a MicroATX or a full ATX. Pop open the case and look. Then compare the size, # of PCI slots, and screw HOLE layouts to the motherboards you look to buy. If your's is a micro ATX, there is a chance that a full ATX won't physically fit in your smaller computer case.


Example of an ATX form factor mobo:
<A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-127-155&depa=1" target="_new">http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-127-155&depa=1</A>


Example of a Micro ATX mobo:
<A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-127-160&depa=1" target="_new">http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-127-160&depa=1</A>

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 1GB Corsair XMS 4000 Pro Series, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt

 

[evolv]

Thank you guys for your opinions and advice. You have swayed me to take the "risk" of going on to buy a new motherboard rather than a PCI card, the suggestion of the possible upgrade to a better card in the future is something I had not factored in at the time of writing my post.

Also reminding me to check the power supply is a very sound piece of advice as well, as I would have probably overlooked this... also the screw holes, it wouldn't be very good if it didn't fit inside the case would it.

The links you provided were helpful as well, much appreciated.

-evolv