Back on the Subject of Monitor Repair.....

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

One thing I never did asked, was how are you getting shocked when
discharging a monitor? Is it right when you stick it with the
screwdriver or something else?

Mike
--
http://www.freewebs.com/arcadelinks/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

Some people just grab at the hv cap and pull it off without discharging the
tube. While you can get away with that on most monitors that are 5-7 years
old and newer you will get zapped if you try to do that on a GO7.

"DarkMagister" <shadowspawn@chartermi.net> wrote in message
news:1115601516.157790.50510@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> One thing I never did asked, was how are you getting shocked when
> discharging a monitor? Is it right when you stick it with the
> screwdriver or something else?
>
> Mike
> --
> http://www.freewebs.com/arcadelinks/
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

I just want to know if using insulated gloves would work. No one ever
mentioned using them, and can't see why they wouldn't keep you from
getting Zapped. Or don't they work?

Mike
--
http://www.freewebs.com/arcadelinks/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

what about grabbing it with a pair of insulated channel locks.

POP!

would that work? drastically shortening the time it takes to don some
gloves, ground yourself, nervously stick a screw driver in there.. fiddle
around until it pops.. etc etc.

when my cat got in the cabinet and yanked out the lead it popped and he was
fine.

just wondering if it's a shortcut.

k.


"Matt Mac Donagh" <gamefixer@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:upCdndPHr_nFIePfRVn-1g@starstream.net...
> Some people just grab at the hv cap and pull it off without discharging
the
> tube. While you can get away with that on most monitors that are 5-7 years
> old and newer you will get zapped if you try to do that on a GO7.
>
> "DarkMagister" <shadowspawn@chartermi.net> wrote in message
> news:1115601516.157790.50510@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > One thing I never did asked, was how are you getting shocked when
> > discharging a monitor? Is it right when you stick it with the
> > screwdriver or something else?
> >
> > Mike
> > --
> > http://www.freewebs.com/arcadelinks/
> >
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

That's not going to work.

Technically 20+kv will travel about 4 inches to reach its target, provided
there is enough current there. I think I remember reading that each inch
consists of about 5kv so do the math. I also remember hearing that lighting
of the same length is close to 100,000 volts!!! Yikes! Voltage in that range
will go to the closest place it can to discharge. If your hand is two inches
away and there's enough of a charge there it will get you. Plus, that thin
insulation on your channel locks is no where near think enough. There's
enough ground potential from the tool to your hand down through your shoes
to the ground to make that voltage "come and get some!"

Keep in mind. You really only need to worry about old monitors. If I'm
working on anything new I don't even bother to discharge it.

> what about grabbing it with a pair of insulated channel locks.
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

1: If the HV is SECURELY attached as it should be, it is designed to
have the convergence and yoke adjusted by human hands while in
operation.

2: If you can't take the whoppin 2 minutes to wrap a wire on the
screwdriver shaft and ground it to an outlet ground, the outlet
coverplate retaining screw, a pipe, or the BX cable if so equipped
where you are working; YOU DESERVE TO GET RAPPED!

And eventually you will.. and good too.. I once did a g07 using a very
long shaft flat head with a very thick rubber/plastic handle.. I
figured it would be good enough.. until I seen the flash climb from the
shaft to my hand in 2-3" of thin air... You think one of those rubber
dishwashing gloves is gonna cut it? Go for it.. and I want to remind
you while your at it that if/WHEN you get rapped.. it WILL skip your
heartbeat.. and if your an unfortunate with a heat condition.. well...
The chances of failure are greater.. Think of that tube as a giant 20kv
capacitor... YOU are a GROUND. You midas well use your tongue to remove
the wire if you think a rubber glove is safe.

Now some monitors are self discharging.. but why take the chance that
that portion of the design is even working? Even if you get away with
that glove; What if you accidently brush past the hole while moving the
chassis around?

- bottom line - do it right. it only takes a second. Bob roberts has
a quick n dirty DIY for making a discharge probe out of a screwdriver,
a long piece of wire, some solder, and a clip.

I use the discharge system, and my tip fits inside the hole as well so
I leave it there until I am ready to reinstall the cup because CRT's
have been known to rebuild a portion of that charge while just sitting
there!

All that precaution.. and guess what? I STILL get nailed on occasion..
better safe then sorry.

- Matt

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

ok.. here's the thing... if it doesn't zap and it SHOULD have... then the
charge is still there... touch it accidently, go to put the lead back on...
zap...

it's just better to discharge it and be sure. It's a simple procedure,
takes all of 3 seconds, and gives you piece of mind (not to mention
forearm).

steve

"DarkMagister" <shadowspawn@chartermi.net> wrote in message
news:1115606958.763561.27250@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>I just want to know if using insulated gloves would work. No one ever
> mentioned using them, and can't see why they wouldn't keep you from
> getting Zapped. Or don't they work?
>
> Mike
> --
> http://www.freewebs.com/arcadelinks/
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

funny thing is...
i'm one of those kind of people that will tell you... why burn your hand on
the stove just to learn it's hot when i'm telling you it's hot and it will
burn.

but i'm the same kind of person who will stick my head in the back of a
monitor, swap orientation leads on the yoke, reach around inside while the
thing is on to feel for the convergence rings to adjust them wile trying to
see the monitor.

all this while it's plugged in. i figure hey.. it hasn't shocked me yet.
haha.

right about that time my son rolls up on me with a handfull of bubble wrap.
haha.

POP!

k.


"Steve Muccione" <home*DOT*muccione@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:YXAfe.5953$EC6.354@trndny06...
> ok.. here's the thing... if it doesn't zap and it SHOULD have... then the
> charge is still there... touch it accidently, go to put the lead back
on...
> zap...
>
> it's just better to discharge it and be sure. It's a simple procedure,
> takes all of 3 seconds, and gives you piece of mind (not to mention
> forearm).
>
> steve
>
> "DarkMagister" <shadowspawn@chartermi.net> wrote in message
> news:1115606958.763561.27250@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >I just want to know if using insulated gloves would work. No one ever
> > mentioned using them, and can't see why they wouldn't keep you from
> > getting Zapped. Or don't they work?
> >
> > Mike
> > --
> > http://www.freewebs.com/arcadelinks/
> >
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

Wasn't talking about using Dishwashing Gloves, those are like paper
thin. I'm sure there has to be some thick insulated gloves out there
you can buy. Just wondering if there is, why no one has mentioned that
they use them. Better to take all the safety measures possible you
would think.

Mike
--
http://www.freewebs.com/arcadelinks/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

Yeah, I kinda figured I was sketchy on a few of those numbers. Its been a
long time since High School Science! But I'm not sure how off I am. I was
watching Mythbusters, great show BTW, and they were doing the myth about
being killed by lightning while on the phone or in the bathtub. They took
the experiment to a lab in California where our local power company has this
machine setup to test lightening effect on their equipment. The guy that
runs the place said the machine can produce up to 300,000 volts at low
current but lightning is well over a million volts at higher current. So who
knows what's what... All I know is that I will take a monitor zap any day
over being hit on the top of the head by lightning. Oh, it turns out that
Lightning wont kill you if your on the phone or in the bath tub during a
storm... Unless your standing in a puddle of gasoline and the earth ground
to your house is disabled!

On that rubber on the second anode. I bet you would get zapped through the
rubber if the anode wasn't connected to the tube. Least path of resistance
and all... I dare you to try the pliers method on a GO7 or 4900. I'm sure
you'll get nailed.

And on the tubes that discharge themselves... I've heard a few different
explanations for this. #1. Theres a million plus ohm resistor tied to the
anode and chassis ground. The charge usually disipates within a few seconds.
#2. The flyback does the work of discharging the tube. I dont know which one
it is but I've yet to be zapped by a newer monitor. I've had monitors that
I've pulled the clip off of and left for a few hours not accumulate any kind
of charge that would feel much more then static discharge.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

I don't mean to sound like an ahole but what monitor is going to do this...

getting hit
> by touching a live 20K lead connected to a mains power supply that won't
> trip until it is flowing more then 15 -20 amps of current is something
> entirely different...

Thats just not possible from any monitor. First of all the fuse on most
monitors is between 1.25 amps and 3.5 amps. Are either of those enough to
kill, sure they are. But your never going to get 20+kv at 15 amps out of a
flyback transformer. The windings are just too small.

Were talking about a low amount of current on that second anode. Now if you
accidently touch one of the exposed deflection coil taps, that hurts!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

Have you guys seen the gloves that the guys that work for the power company
use? I think they are fine for low voltage high current connections but the
funny thing about high voltage is that it will search out a place to
discharge too. I'm sure that 20kv will go through just about anything that
you can put on your hand.

> Wasn't talking about using Dishwashing Gloves, those are like paper
> thin.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

Lol....I remember my grandfather always yelling at us to get out of the
lake when it started thundering out...alwasy had a feeling that was BS.

Mike
--
http://www.freewebs.com/arcadelinks/

 

[RJ]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

I have a set of those Gloves I use to do work on Meter boxes.
I have them tested about every 6 months. They work great for 220 AC and
I believe the ones I have are rated to 10kv. But they are hard to work
with and I have never tried to use them when unplugging an anode cap.

www.therealbobroberts.com has a good article on how to discharge a
monitor properly.
I have never minded the Zap I hate what my hand runs into as I have
jerked away. The one time I got hit with a live anode it felt like I
had chewed on tin foil. I went blank for a few seconds. Regained my
witts to the sound of laughter coming from the other tech's. I was on
the floor up against my bench with a dazzed look in my eye.

I made up a Good Insulated screw driver with a wire soldered to it,
with a clip lead. I came across this Solder Flux that allows you to
solder to a Beer can or just about anything.

I still wear a pair of gloves when I do convergence/purity or yoke
adjustments. My hands sweat to much.

RJ

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

<snip>
2: If you can't take the whoppin 2 minutes to wrap a wire on the
screwdriver shaft and ground it to an outlet ground, the outlet
coverplate retaining screw, a pipe, or the BX cable if so equipped
where you are working; YOU DESERVE TO GET RAPPED!
</snip>

WRONG WRONG WRONG.

You *HAVE TO* ground the screwdriver shaft to the chassis ground.
Grounding to a wall outlet isn't the same thing. In fact, you're not
"grounding" the tube; the tube is a big glass capacitor and what you're
really trying to do by discharging it is EQUALIZING the charge of the
tube.

That's why you still get nailed on occasion; you're not discharging the
tube. I'm surprised nobody else jumped on this.

Rob

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

--
Art
"Steve Muccione" <home*DOT*muccione@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:5PHfe.4996$Dn.4663@trndny02...
getting hit
> by touching a live 20K lead connected to a mains power supply that won't
> trip until it is flowing more then 15 -20 amps of current is something
> entirely different... it WILL kill you, or if you're really "lucky" do
> permanent damage to the neurons in your arm and where ever else it's
> traveling to in order to ground itself.
>

pure urban legend - in my 35 years of TV repair I have gotten nailed by live
chassis more than once, and on the newer TVs the HV is closer to 33KV than
20. Nasty jolt, lots of curses, and the occasional scratched hand as it
hits something as it jerks away from the shock, but not a bit of damage and
no lingering pains past 5 minutes or so.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

Rob,

The comment about getting rapped every now and then was interjected
towards safety in general when I do monitor work, not specificly
targeted towards my discharging methods. The method I use has never
been a failure for me.

And nobody jumped on this because my method DOES work.

- Matt

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

You guys should look for Mythbusters on the Discovery channel. Its a great
show. When the guys disprove an "explosive" myth, in other words it doesn't
blow up, they BLOW it up by any crazy means!

its really great fun to watch!

Matt
"DarkMagister" <shadowspawn@chartermi.net> wrote in message
news:1115650942.907463.262240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Lol....I remember my grandfather always yelling at us to get out of the
> lake when it started thundering out...alwasy had a feeling that was BS.
>
> Mike
> --
> http://www.freewebs.com/arcadelinks/
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

This has been discussed before:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.games.video.arcade.collecting/msg/12df4326588cb57a?hl=en

Good luck, hope you don't get zapped too bad.

Rob


"Matty-t" <matthews@audio-doctors.com> wrote in message
news:1115678390.203639.239120@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Rob,
>
> The comment about getting rapped every now and then was interjected
> towards safety in general when I do monitor work, not specificly
> targeted towards my discharging methods. The method I use has never
> been a failure for me.
>
> And nobody jumped on this because my method DOES work.
>
> - Matt
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

all I see is several people arguing they're points. I don't see any one
of these individuals being an authority on the subject.

The proof is in the puddin.. I get a good discharge from the crt every
time.

- Matt

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

Wow, that's news to me. I've been discharging tubes with a wire and
screwdriver between the chassis and the anode for 20+ years and have yet to
damage a one.


"VaxX" <geoff_gunn@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:428096dc$0$247$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-03.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au...
> Anyway, you shouldn't discharge dirrectly to ground. A few monitors will
> get
> some damage with a fast discharge.
> Isn't the discharge lead supposed to have a resistor in it as well???
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

> I don't see any one of these individuals being an authority on the
> subject.

Lol.. on this group? There's never going to be any consensus on anything...
even something to so simple as the fact that your left nut is supposed to be
bigger then your right nut!

"Matty-t" <matthews@audio-doctors.com> wrote in message
news:1115715789.137919.146070@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> all I see is several people arguing they're points. I don't see any one
> of these individuals being an authority on the subject.
>
> The proof is in the puddin.. I get a good discharge from the crt every
> time.
>
> - Matt
>