The great Dragon's Lair debate

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Ok well since people seem to like starting opinion polls as a
discussion, I figure it's my turn.

Dragon's Lair : arcade classic or over-hyped garbage?

For myself, I consider it a classic. Yes the game play is extremely
limitted and once you know how to get through all the choices it's
probably one of the simplest games out there, but it was a bit of
innovation in a time when practically everything had been tried already
in the arcade world. Perhaps another game came out on laser disc first
(I have no idea) but certainly Dragon's Lair was the famous one that
made a name for itself.
I was really impressed with the technology back in the day and it still
impresses me today. I would consider it a required member of any decent
video game collection.

Now before I get inundated with a volley of Dragon's Lair hatemail, can
I ask those people who don't like it, if there ever was a "GOOD"
laserdisc game in their opinion?
I have very fond memories of Cobra Command, personally. It's always
been my favorite of the LD's.

computerspacefan@hotmail.com
http://www.computerspacefan.com
 
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This answer depends on why you collect- is your goal to collect
examples of games which represent different techincal achievements in
the timeline of classic arcades, or do you collect what you feel
provides the best repeat gameplay experience?

Dragon's Lair fits well into the first catagory, but I think you'll
agree it's repeat gameplay experience is lacking.

Mike Doyle
 
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I love the game but its limited number of options or 'moves' is its
only draw back.
I believe that was the denize of LD games. Although very collectable
people lost interest because they had little options.
Also back then it was 50¢ a play!

Played the game.
Beat the game.
Moved to another game

Don
www.arcadeguy.com
 
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Yes, the laserdisc games could have done so much more.

Like the Pump it Up and DDR games that are just now waining in
popularity, those could have been run on laser hardware back in 1983.
 
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Operated one when it came out. The video fad bubble had burst, Dragon's Lair
cost a lot more than the normal game, cost a lot more to maintain. Did take in
good money initially. Was the second laser disc game, the first was a gambling
horse race game. I felt that since you made a move and then watched the
results, people would probably only do this once. They wanted more interaction
and faster. That was why I figured Cliff Hanger did so poorly for me. A couple
of the flying games, Fire Fox and M.A.C.H. 3 did okay. I thought the laser
disc games hastened the end of the video fad.

Now if they would have been out sooner, and had a chance to evolve, it did
have interesting ideas. LTG :)

<computerspacefan@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1117056992.624155.167070@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Ok well since people seem to like starting opinion polls as a
> discussion, I figure it's my turn.
>
> Dragon's Lair : arcade classic or over-hyped garbage?
>
> For myself, I consider it a classic. Yes the game play is extremely
> limitted and once you know how to get through all the choices it's
> probably one of the simplest games out there, but it was a bit of
> innovation in a time when practically everything had been tried already
> in the arcade world. Perhaps another game came out on laser disc first
> (I have no idea) but certainly Dragon's Lair was the famous one that
> made a name for itself.
> I was really impressed with the technology back in the day and it still
> impresses me today. I would consider it a required member of any decent
> video game collection.
>
> Now before I get inundated with a volley of Dragon's Lair hatemail, can
> I ask those people who don't like it, if there ever was a "GOOD"
> laserdisc game in their opinion?
> I have very fond memories of Cobra Command, personally. It's always
> been my favorite of the LD's.
>
> computerspacefan@hotmail.com
> http://www.computerspacefan.com
>
 
G

Guest

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The cabinet itself makes it standout as a classic (the cut style marquee and
led scoring)

I am a collector that just finally was able to buy one. I played one back
in '83 at showbiz when I was a kid, then across the last 20 years:

I bought the atari STversion.
I bought the ibm cdrom version.
I bought the win 95 version.
I bought the dvd-rom version.
I bought the arcade accurate edition.
I bought the 20th anniversary cdrom edition.
I bought the 20th anniversary dvd edition.
I setup the emulated version called daphne.
I also bought pretty much all the space ace and dragons lair 2 editions that
matched the ones above.

And now, in the last week, I just bought the real deal (and a space ace) off
of Ebay. I don't know what it is about that game, I never was a master at
it, but I just really like it. Every one of the versions above was a bit
better than the version before it (but they all lacked in some way or
another). The truth is the daphne emulated version probably looks and
plays better than the original will (no lag time since the laser disc data
is on a hard drive and I am outputing directly to an arcade vga monitor (as
opposed to composite video that is then converted to RGB on a low res arcade
monitor). I have been after one of these machines for the last 5 years of
collecting and if it doesn't fly out of the truck on the way home I will
finally achieve this arcade goal!


And as if its over rated garbage, I would say no. While many will say that
its too linear and you see the same thing over and over when you play.
Thats pretty much the same for me with pacman, defender, donkey kong, and
many others. Most games you see the same couple of levels over and over
(Unless you are a very good player). Even after all the collecting I have
done across the last couple of years, I have yet to master any game. I play
pretty much like most did back in the day. I walk up to a game, play it a
couple of times and then move on and play something else.





--
Mickster

Visit my website and see my arcade!!

http://mickster.freeservers.com

<computerspacefan@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1117056992.624155.167070@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Ok well since people seem to like starting opinion polls as a
> discussion, I figure it's my turn.
>
> Dragon's Lair : arcade classic or over-hyped garbage?
>
> For myself, I consider it a classic. Yes the game play is extremely
> limitted and once you know how to get through all the choices it's
> probably one of the simplest games out there, but it was a bit of
> innovation in a time when practically everything had been tried already
> in the arcade world. Perhaps another game came out on laser disc first
> (I have no idea) but certainly Dragon's Lair was the famous one that
> made a name for itself.
> I was really impressed with the technology back in the day and it still
> impresses me today. I would consider it a required member of any decent
> video game collection.
>
> Now before I get inundated with a volley of Dragon's Lair hatemail, can
> I ask those people who don't like it, if there ever was a "GOOD"
> laserdisc game in their opinion?
> I have very fond memories of Cobra Command, personally. It's always
> been my favorite of the LD's.
>
> computerspacefan@hotmail.com
> http://www.computerspacefan.com
>
 
G

Guest

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> Dragon's Lair : arcade classic or over-hyped garbage?
>

Both. It is a classic. It was ground breaking. It is also over-hyped.

> For myself, I consider it a classic. Yes the game play is extremely
> limitted and once you know how to get through all the choices it's
> probably one of the simplest games out there, but it was a bit of
> innovation in a time when practically everything had been tried already
> in the arcade world. Perhaps another game came out on laser disc first
> (I have no idea) but certainly Dragon's Lair was the famous one that
> made a name for itself.
> I was really impressed with the technology back in the day and it still
> impresses me today. I would consider it a required member of any decent
> video game collection.
>
> Now before I get inundated with a volley of Dragon's Lair hatemail, can
> I ask those people who don't like it, if there ever was a "GOOD"
> laserdisc game in their opinion?
> I have very fond memories of Cobra Command, personally. It's always
> been my favorite of the LD's.
>
> computerspacefan@hotmail.com
> http://www.computerspacefan.com
>
 
G

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I remember when this game came out. I used to read all of those video
game magazines like Electronic Gaming and Joystick. There was quite a
lot of excitement around this game. I finally saw one in spring of 83 I
think. I never seemded to have any money mice back then, and after
getting killed so quickly at 50 cents a play I had enough fairly soon.

I remember when the Coleco Adam came out there was a rumor that they
would release a expansion pack so you could play Dragons Lair at home.
This rumor was one of the reasons I spent all the money I made in the
summer of 84 (I think) on the Coleco Adam instead of the Commodore 64.
Of course the laser disk expansion never materialised and the Coleco
Adam went down the tubes in short order.

I have a DL in my collection now. I never play it, but I got it cheap,
for 75 bucks, with a busted monitor, ripped up art(except the marquee)
and a broken LD player. Another 500 or so for new artwork, a Laser Ace
and a Sony 1450 and it works great.





computerspacefan@hotmail.com wrote:
> Ok well since people seem to like starting opinion polls as a
> discussion, I figure it's my turn.
>
> Dragon's Lair : arcade classic or over-hyped garbage?
>
> For myself, I consider it a classic. Yes the game play is extremely
> limitted and once you know how to get through all the choices it's
> probably one of the simplest games out there, but it was a bit of
> innovation in a time when practically everything had been tried already
> in the arcade world. Perhaps another game came out on laser disc first
> (I have no idea) but certainly Dragon's Lair was the famous one that
> made a name for itself.
> I was really impressed with the technology back in the day and it still
> impresses me today. I would consider it a required member of any decent
> video game collection.
>
> Now before I get inundated with a volley of Dragon's Lair hatemail, can
> I ask those people who don't like it, if there ever was a "GOOD"
> laserdisc game in their opinion?
> I have very fond memories of Cobra Command, personally. It's always
> been my favorite of the LD's.
>
> computerspacefan@hotmail.com
> http://www.computerspacefan.com
 
G

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I never could get very far on it, I just died too fast. I prefered to
play Cliff Hanger instead. I love the look of DL, but found it to be
more frustrating than fun. (I haven't even attempted to play one in 20
years.)
 
G

guinness

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When I worked in an arcade as a youngin', we got one for $5K shipped. I was
the first one to beat it which gave me local rights. :D I just love it
for nastalgia.....and continue to play it one once a year or more and still
love the walk-thru of it.

tim (NH)

<computerspacefan@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1117056992.624155.167070@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Ok well since people seem to like starting opinion polls as a
> discussion, I figure it's my turn.
>
> Dragon's Lair : arcade classic or over-hyped garbage?
>
> For myself, I consider it a classic. Yes the game play is extremely
> limitted and once you know how to get through all the choices it's
> probably one of the simplest games out there, but it was a bit of
> innovation in a time when practically everything had been tried already
> in the arcade world. Perhaps another game came out on laser disc first
> (I have no idea) but certainly Dragon's Lair was the famous one that
> made a name for itself.
> I was really impressed with the technology back in the day and it still
> impresses me today. I would consider it a required member of any decent
> video game collection.
>
> Now before I get inundated with a volley of Dragon's Lair hatemail, can
> I ask those people who don't like it, if there ever was a "GOOD"
> laserdisc game in their opinion?
> I have very fond memories of Cobra Command, personally. It's always
> been my favorite of the LD's.
>
> computerspacefan@hotmail.com
> http://www.computerspacefan.com
>
 
G

Guest

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I like the game and think it is collectable for a number of reasons
(technology, innovation, etc.). To say its popularity dropped because of
the repetitive gameplay would mean that you must say the same thing about
many other classic games that just repeat levels over and over. Perhaps the
main reason it died down was because it had an ending. Once you beat it,
why play it again? In fact, I think endings killed the arcades as much as
continues did. The real question is, was DL the first game with an ending?
It was certainly one of the first games where a large number of people had
seen the ending (mostly because of the double monitors).

Dane.

<computerspacefan@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1117056992.624155.167070@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Ok well since people seem to like starting opinion polls as a
> discussion, I figure it's my turn.
>
> Dragon's Lair : arcade classic or over-hyped garbage?
>
> For myself, I consider it a classic. Yes the game play is extremely
> limitted and once you know how to get through all the choices it's
> probably one of the simplest games out there, but it was a bit of
> innovation in a time when practically everything had been tried already
> in the arcade world. Perhaps another game came out on laser disc first
> (I have no idea) but certainly Dragon's Lair was the famous one that
> made a name for itself.
> I was really impressed with the technology back in the day and it still
> impresses me today. I would consider it a required member of any decent
> video game collection.
>
> Now before I get inundated with a volley of Dragon's Lair hatemail, can
> I ask those people who don't like it, if there ever was a "GOOD"
> laserdisc game in their opinion?
> I have very fond memories of Cobra Command, personally. It's always
> been my favorite of the LD's.
>
> computerspacefan@hotmail.com
> http://www.computerspacefan.com
>
 
G

Guest

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> Dragon's Lair : arcade classic or over-hyped garbage?

I'd say it was a classic. The Don Bluth animation really, REALLY helped its
popularity, IMO. Given the technology of the time, the game really
accomplished a lot. But it could have been done much better, particularly
in terms of reliability. The laser disc player wasn't quite heavy-duty
enough for the task of roughhouse play, and I heard reports of some
operators stationing the player in a protected area and running a cable out
to the game.

I remember when _Dragon's Lair_ first appeared. 1983, was it? I saw it in
my local Showbiz Pizza Place in southwest Fort Worth (today, the entire
building has since been leveled and a drug store sits on the property now).
I knew the tech there and there was such a huge crowd around the game, you
couldn't even get near it. One of the smartest things operators did was
connect a second video monitor on top of the game cabinet so you could see
the game action from a distance.

I recall _Electronic Games_ magazine writing about the "first" LD game,
Sega's _Astron Belt_. But _Dragon's Lair_ appeared in my local arcade
first. Later on, Williams came out with _Star Rider_ (that WAS a LD game,
right?) that impressed me much, much more because you actually controlled
all the action, instead of simply making decisions. Add to that the fact
that swords & sorcery simply never interested me (I was probably the only
kid in my Boy Scout troop who didn't burn up an entire weekend on a campout
playing "Dungeons & Dragons"), so in my entire life I probably played
_Dragon's Lair_ all of twice. Maybe that's why I never thought laser disc
games weren't as exciting as they could have been.

Perhaps if laser disc games took greater advantage of what their hardware
had the potential to do, the genre could have lasted longer. There was an
excellent article about the development of a little-known LD game called
_Cube Quest_ in the engineering magazine _IEEE Spectrum_, detailing the
explicit use of computer graphics generated and recorded for that game, but
_Cube Quest_ never saw widespread release.

_Fire Fox_ and _M.A.C.H. 3_ never impressed me either, for reasons I can't
really explain.

Princess Daphne was a real hottie, though. :)
 
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????????????


what does it mean?

--
Mickster

Visit my website and see my arcade!!

http://mickster.freeservers.com

"Stephen Beall" <mylstar@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:37ednbT5P-b6hgjfRVn-jA@giganews.com...
> LGSA, EOD. :)
>
>
> -Stephen
>
>
 
A

Andy

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I had one for a bit. It had a dip switch with the upgraded eeproms so you
could swap discs and play Space Ace too. Space Ace had better, more
seemless animation and was in stereo. I bought my game for $1000, bought
all the replacement stuff (marquee, overlay, etc), had to buy stacks of
LDV-1000's - got robbed by a guy who sold me a rebuilt LDV-1000 which worked
for about 4 hours. After buying the space ace disc, and all the loot I had
tied up in the thing, I was lucky to get out of it whole. I like the game
for its nostalgia factor, and I think it compliments any collection. I
would be surprised if the replay value was as high as most other repetitive
vids of its era.

Andy

<computerspacefan@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1117056992.624155.167070@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Ok well since people seem to like starting opinion polls as a
> discussion, I figure it's my turn.
>
> Dragon's Lair : arcade classic or over-hyped garbage?
>
> For myself, I consider it a classic. Yes the game play is extremely
> limitted and once you know how to get through all the choices it's
> probably one of the simplest games out there, but it was a bit of
> innovation in a time when practically everything had been tried already
> in the arcade world. Perhaps another game came out on laser disc first
> (I have no idea) but certainly Dragon's Lair was the famous one that
> made a name for itself.
> I was really impressed with the technology back in the day and it still
> impresses me today. I would consider it a required member of any decent
> video game collection.
>
> Now before I get inundated with a volley of Dragon's Lair hatemail, can
> I ask those people who don't like it, if there ever was a "GOOD"
> laserdisc game in their opinion?
> I have very fond memories of Cobra Command, personally. It's always
> been my favorite of the LD's.
>
> computerspacefan@hotmail.com
> http://www.computerspacefan.com
>
 
G

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I was never any good at Dragon's Lair, so I seldom played it. I liked
Space Ace better, bvt I still never got very far. Neither was what yov
covld rightly call a "good game."

Now Cliff Hanger...that's a game! I always envied the gvys who covld
play Dragon's Lair well. People wovld crowd arovnd them and watch as
they got all the way throvgh. On Cliff Hanger, I was that gvy. When the
game arrived at the vniversity vnion at my college, I had a friend
stand beside me and write down the moves (remember--Cliffy told yov
what yov did wrong when yov made a mistake). Two days and abovt $21
later, I covld play the game all the way throvgh withovt even looking
at the screen. And I did so whenever there was a crowd arovnd. Good ego
boost. :)

I do consider laser games in general (and Dragon's Lair specifically)
classic games--they represent a significant milestone in arcade
history, even thovgh most of them were all flash and no game.

The only one I'd consider owning, thovgh, is Cliff Hanger.

-Dave Ellis
http://www.davesclassicarcade.com
 
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> The cabinet itself makes it standovt as a classic (the cvt style marqvee and
> led scoring)
>
> I am a collector that jvst finally was able to bvy one. I played one back
> in '83 at showbiz when I was a kid, then across the last 20 years:
>
> I bovght the atari STversion.
> I bovght the ibm cdrom version.
> I bovght the win 95 version.
> I bovght the dvd-rom version.
> I bovght the arcade accvrate edition.
> I bovght the 20th anniversary cdrom edition.
> I bovght the 20th anniversary dvd edition.
> I setvp the emvlated version called daphne.
> I also bovght pretty mvch all the space ace and dragons lair 2 editions that
> matched the ones above.

Interesting, we follow a similar timeline. When I first saw Dragon's
Lair back in 1983 I thovght it was the most amazing thing ever. I
remember playing it over and over at Chvck-E-Cheese throvghovt the 80s.
Being able to play it at home was always a dream. I remember bvying:

The Coleco Adam Version.
The C=64 Version (inclvded 'Dragon's Lair 2: Escape from Singe's
Castle)
The PC Version (Psvedo FMV like the Amiga version)
The SegaCD version (First trve FMV version I remember)
The 3DO Version (looked better than the SegaCD)
The CD-i Version (main reason i bovght a CD-i, versions were MPEG-1)
Gameboy Color version (Animated, Yes! Amazing!)
The CD-ROM PC Version and finally the recent DVD versions

of covrse dvring the later part of this i started the arcade collecting
(1994) and ended vp with a Dragon's Lair back in 1995 and a Dragon's
Lair II a few years later. I still love the game, the art.. I went to a
CGE in Vegas to see Rick Dyer, etc.

Let's face it, Dragon's Lair (and the other Laserdisc games) have a
cvlt like following of dedicated fans. Then, there's a bvnch of people
(like a friend of mine) who aptly describes it as a 'game in which yov
constantly search for the play bvtton' which is yes, trve. However,
taken as a whole I still find Dragon's Lair to be one of my favorites..
bvt it seems to be a love/hate game.

Hell, I'd have bovght one of the 'revnion' style games that jvst came
ovt if it wasn't so horrifically vgly. Who designed that? OK yov want
it to fit in a revnion style cabinet instead of attempting to remake
the original.. OK, bvt yellow? Which game in that series had a yellow
paint scheme? Yvck!

Oh and Daphne is awesome. I have it on my Xbox. I never thovght I'd be
able to play Cliffhanger again. Now if they can only vpdate the xbox
version with Freedom Fighter svpport, I can pvt the CD-i in the closet.

= nvmsix
= http://www.villagebbs.com
 
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DL was totally a critical and important game for the industry. I
created a frenzy not seen since PacMan at it's time.

Sure the industry dipped a bit afterwards but any game to get its own
Cartoon like Donkey Kong and PacMan is worth it in my book.

I was never super good at it. But it was always the treasure in my
collection. Still is...

Gil
 
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On Wed, 25 May 2005 17:09:16 -0500, "Lloyd Olson" <ltg@ssbilliards.com> wrote:

>Was the second laser disc game, the first was a gambling
>horse race game.

Didn't Astron Belt beat both of those?

It certainly did in my area, but my local arcade was a test location so
I have a skewed idea of what was available when.

-Iain
 
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No, I was a test location and DL was first. LTG :)

"Iain Odlin" <i_odlin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:eusc91didrdtvlbb5j3h68k225lg1amj2u@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 25 May 2005 17:09:16 -0500, "Lloyd Olson" <ltg@ssbilliards.com>
wrote:
>
> >Was the second laser disc game, the first was a gambling
> >horse race game.
>
> Didn't Astron Belt beat both of those?
>
> It certainly did in my area, but my local arcade was a test location so
> I have a skewed idea of what was available when.
>
> -Iain
 
P

Prok

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I am pretty sure Astron Belt was the first laserdisc game.. quarter horse
was the first in a way, but it was gambling moreso than game..

/b


"Lloyd Olson" <ltg@ssbilliards.com> wrote in message
news:hdCdnR3HSsX66AvfRVnyrQ@skypoint.com...
> No, I was a test location and DL was first. LTG :)
>
> "Iain Odlin" <i_odlin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:eusc91didrdtvlbb5j3h68k225lg1amj2u@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 25 May 2005 17:09:16 -0500, "Lloyd Olson" <ltg@ssbilliards.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> >Was the second laser disc game, the first was a gambling
>> >horse race game.
>>
>> Didn't Astron Belt beat both of those?
>>
>> It certainly did in my area, but my local arcade was a test location so
>> I have a skewed idea of what was available when.
>>
>> -Iain
>
>
 
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No, Astron Belt was after DL. LTG :)

"prOk" <bsonej@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:IKule.42243$VH2.24906@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
> I am pretty sure Astron Belt was the first laserdisc game.. quarter horse
> was the first in a way, but it was gambling moreso than game..
 
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Prok

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Not to argue, but you're incorrect.. Astron Belt was made and released in
Japan before DL was released in the US. AB was the first game to use
laserdisc technology (not counting Quarter Horse, which technically is the
first entertainment device to use it).

http://www.atarihq.com/coinops/laser/astbelt.html
http://www.cityofberwyn.com/KLOVJan94/KLOV.txt
http://www.digitpress.com/archives/timeline.htm

Now if you're talking US ONLY release, yes.. DL beat Astron Belt to the
american market by a few months..

/b


"Lloyd Olson" <ltg@ssbilliards.com> wrote in message
news:MbWdnSimaeLD5wvfRVnyig@skypoint.com...
> No, Astron Belt was after DL. LTG :)
>
> "prOk" <bsonej@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:IKule.42243$VH2.24906@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
>> I am pretty sure Astron Belt was the first laserdisc game.. quarter horse
>> was the first in a way, but it was gambling moreso than game..
>
>
 
G

Guest

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Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

I'm sorry. You are of course correct. I was thinking American market as that
is where my arcade is. In those pre internet days we weren't so aware of other
markets. Thank you for reminding me of other markets. LTG :)

"prOk" <bsonej@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:g3vle.42246$VH2.14871@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
> Not to argue, but you're incorrect.. Astron Belt was made and released in
> Japan before DL was released in the US. AB was the first game to use
> laserdisc technology (not counting Quarter Horse, which technically is the
> first entertainment device to use it).
>
> http://www.atarihq.com/coinops/laser/astbelt.html
> http://www.cityofberwyn.com/KLOVJan94/KLOV.txt
> http://www.digitpress.com/archives/timeline.htm
>
> Now if you're talking US ONLY release, yes.. DL beat Astron Belt to the
> american market by a few months..
>
> /b
 
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