Vapor

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And with it comes all those magic drivers...

<A HREF="http://www.guru3d.com" target="_new">http://www.guru3d.com</A> <---good place to find a few mirrors and those magic drivers. I haven't run it yet (or finished dling it for that matter), but I can give you a few approximations for scores based off ORB:
X800XTpe: 5700;
6800U: 5100;
X800XT: 5100;
6800GT: 4700;
X800Pro: ????;
6800nu: ????;
9800XT: 2900;
9800Pro@XT speeds: 2700;
9800Pro: 2500;
9700Pro: 2100;
9550: 1200;
5900XT(?): 331(?).

Of note is that NONE of the available drivers that were tested are WHQL or FM approved....go figure. Also of note is that A64s fair *A LOT* better in this test...P4C/Es do alright, no word on P4B (I have one, so we shall see), AXPs get stomped on (didn't help that the only one was running a 9550 :tongue: ).

Anyway, I'm VERY suspicious of these new magic drivers from ATi (22% performance gain and only in '05?!?!?!?!), so I'll do my best to try to report on the probably floptimizations on ATi's part. Of course the best way to do this will be first person testing (I'll test Cat 4.9, Omega 4.9, Cat 4.91 and whatever that hotfix 8.07 is [just another name for 4.91, IIRC]). I'm limited to a 128MB 9800XT (a 256MB *might* be coming soon--will also test the affect of 256MB of RAM if that card ever comes), so the majority of the speed increase may only be observed in the X800 series. <font color=red>Anybody with an X800 wanna do some testing to see how BS these ATi drivers are??</font color=red>

The news that '05 will bring us will be more than: look how crappy some of our systems are. Rather, it'll show (like '03 did) the susceptibility of cheating of both ATi and nVidia in this round...this whole Cat A.I. thing is a little fishy, then add a 20+% performance gain on a BENCHMARK the day it comes out just makes me think that ATi learned a bit too much from nV last round.

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.
 

Vapor

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Yup...especially those with the newest 256MB cards. As it turns out, the new drivers, 8.07 aren't a haxxor version meant for insanely increased 3DMarks!!!! As it turns out, ATi has been having problems with their drivers utilizing all 256MB--until now. 8.07 finally fixes that problem, and in games (or benchmarks) where much more than 128MB of memory is needed, there will be a noticable improvement. Such a noticable improvement that 8.07's success in 3DMark05 is solely due to the 'fixed' mem usage (don't know the real terminology). So you think going from 4800 to 5800 is still a cheat?

Well, how's this for evidence it's not: the drivers are FM approved and actually provide higher IQ than 4.9s.

Reviews: <A HREF="http://www.tweaktown.com/document.php?dType=article&dId=706" target="_new">Tweaktown</A>
<A HREF="http://www.driverheaven.net/articles/3dmark--05/" target="_new">Driverheaven</A>
<A HREF="http://techreport.com/etc/2004q3/3dmark05/index.x?pg=1" target="_new">The Tech Report</A>
Others are out there if you look....

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.
 

PukePile

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Heres a Fast D/L <A HREF="http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~athorn/3DMark05_v100_installer.exe" target="_new">(Clicky)</A> or at least right now. 30 min d/l as opposed to guru's 2 hours.


<A HREF="http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?run=682299587" target="_new">40k in aquamark 3
</A>
P4b2.4@2.8||1024mb DDR@392mhz||9800pro@420/740||Viewsonic UltraBrite 19"||Panisonic DVD-RW
 

Vapor

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Sweet! I lost connection at around 40% and was too upset to restart it (for some reason, the links were all moved so I couldn't resume)...maybe I'll get it by lunch now.

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.
 

priyajeet

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get some for me :wink:

<i> :tongue: <font color=blue>I don't suffer from insanity.</font color=blue><font color=red> I enjoy every minute of it.</font color=red> :tongue: </i>
<b>He who laughs last thinks slowest!</b>
 

PukePile

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Am at 43% Right now with 17 mins left or at least thats the time windows estimates.Damn 2700 sound a bit low :( Only 3 game tests in this one; Return to Proxycon, Firefly Forest, Canyon Flight.Has any one heard anything about a new aquamark in the works?



<A HREF="http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?run=682299587" target="_new">40k in aquamark 3
</A>
P4b2.4@2.8||1024mb DDR@392mhz||9800pro@420/740||Viewsonic UltraBrite 19"||Panisonic DVD-RW<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Pukepile on 09/29/04 12:29 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

krazynutz

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Ugh...it's still gonna take 1.5 hours for me...(sigh)...thanks for the clicky, though, priyajeet. Yeah, a new aquamark would be nice. And what the HELL is with nVidia and releasing drivers? I keep seeing "updated" drivers on guru3D up to 66.xx while the official drivers on nvidia.com are still only at 61.77 - dated back in JULY! ATI's releasing a new catalyst or hotfix every week and nVidia's sittin' on it's thumbs. What gives? Are they waiting to see how all these "betas" that slip out work? Then, when they're satisfied with an "improvement" they'll release an official copy? Probably around 70.xx?

<font color=blue>This guy here is <i><b>dead!</b></i></font color=blue>
<font color=red>Cross him <i><b>off</b></i> then.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by krazynutz on 09/29/04 12:42 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

PukePile

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God damn it! I lost connection got to start all over again.


<A HREF="http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?run=682299587" target="_new">40k in aquamark 3
</A>
P4b2.4@2.8||1024mb DDR@392mhz||9800pro@420/740||Viewsonic UltraBrite 19"||Panisonic DVD-RW
 

priyajeet

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i have an x800, will install 3dmark and 8.07. and bench doom3 and source.

<i> :tongue: <font color=blue>I don't suffer from insanity.</font color=blue><font color=red> I enjoy every minute of it.</font color=red> :tongue: </i>
<b>He who laughs last thinks slowest!</b>
 

PukePile

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Damn and yet again i lost connection.F*ck this mirror im just going to d/l from Guru.


<A HREF="http://arc.aquamark3.com/arc/arc_view.php?run=682299587" target="_new">40k in aquamark 3
</A>
P4b2.4@2.8||1024mb DDR@392mhz||9800pro@420/740||Viewsonic UltraBrite 19"||Panisonic DVD-RW
 

krazynutz

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aw nuts...if you lost connection, I probably will too shortly. I'm at 43% right now....(cringe)....

<font color=blue>This guy here is <i><b>dead!</b></i></font color=blue>
<font color=red>Cross him <i><b>off</b></i> then.
 

Vapor

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Cool...I'm very interested in this 8.07 driver. Has ATi been f***ing 256MB card owners all this time? It will be very interesting to see if this is just a 3DMark thing (with the cover of the 256MB problem) or if allocation *really* has been a problem all this time.

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.
 

coylter

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File planet account = me downloading at 450ko/s :p

Click <font color=blue><A HREF="http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/you.html" target="_new">HERE</A></font color=blue> if you real<b>l</b>y are an <font color=red>idiot</font color=red>.
 

krazynutz

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well, I have two copies of it now. The link provided by priyajeet took 1.5 hours and another I found off of futuremark's website took 45min. they finished within 10 seconds of each other. Weee! to the benchmark!!

<font color=blue>This guy here is <i><b>dead!</b></i></font color=blue>
<font color=red>Cross him <i><b>off</b></i> then.
 

imgame

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here is one more link ....its chineese server ....but perhaps its not as busy as others are ....its very fast in 46 min i d/l 120 mb of it and ofcourse my connection is not that fast...at least its not getiing disconnected

don't worry about the character if ur browser doesn't support them just look for the file name its in english :)

http://www.mydrivers.com/3dmark05.htm

i m doomed!!!
 

priyajeet

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guys, use bittorrent.
I dont know why u all still rely on the old http and ftp download technology. God has given us bittorrent. Use p2p and spread the word !

<A HREF="http://downloads.guru3d.com/downloadget.php?id=874&file=3&evp=88e1f6685bd8fd62cc58a4018e56ac69" target="_new">http://downloads.guru3d.com/downloadget.php?id=874&file=3&evp=88e1f6685bd8fd62cc58a4018e56ac69</A>

put that link into your torrent client or click on it.

<i> :tongue: <font color=blue>I don't suffer from insanity.</font color=blue><font color=red> I enjoy every minute of it.</font color=red> :tongue: </i>
<b>He who laughs last thinks slowest!</b>
 

blackphoenix77

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I'm not afraid to open a little more bandwidth for this on bittorrent, it's legal! :smile:

<font color=blue>AthlonXP-M 2500+(12x200)</font color=blue>|<font color=green>Abit NF7-S</font color=green>|<font color=red>Kingston DDR400 2x256Mb</font color=red>|<font color=purple>NEC Accucync90 19"</font color=purple>|<font color=black>Sapphire 9600XT</font color=black>
 
I find it funny my word floptimization is being so liberally used.

However it is curious the boost.

I'll leave it as is until someone shows more.

Remember that ATI's actions so far have been pretty benign, with shader instruction order being their only major faux-pas.

And why not mention nV's optimizations?

Rather, it'll show (like '03 did) the susceptibility of cheating of both ATi and nVidia in this round
Well except that really there's been little to indicate cheating as of yet. And if both companies stick to their policies, then they won't be floptimizations, just not-approved optimizations which may have a benificial impact, but not be detrimental cheating we saw last year from nV. I'm dissapointed that the possibility of optimized and non-optimized runs weren't better addressed this time around. I still haven't had a chance to read (or even look for) the white paper on this and see if they address it in their use policy, etc.

this whole Cat A.I. thing is a little fishy
Why? It can be enabled, disabled, was publicly announced and launched, nothing fishy about that. There are alot of investigations so far, and while there are obvious mathematical differences the IQ impact seems small, and as an option, it should only impact positively on gaming experience, and shouldn't impeed reviewers like hidden opitizations of old.

then add a 20+% performance gain on a BENCHMARK the day it comes out just makes me think that ATi learned a bit too much from nV last round.
Really? I think you've got it backwards, if anything ATI <b>DID</b> learn from the nV fiasco and learned, don't cheat, you'll get caught, and it won't be pretty. ATI is nowhere near in the same boat as nV was when it cheated, I doubt they'd risk that much when the X800XTPE still dominates the majority of benchmarks out there, so this would simply hurt their position not embolden it.

Of course I won't say anyone is or isn't cheating I'll let those who have access to the developers' kits delve into this and expose more than any of us ever could with a handful of drivers, our naked eyes, and Fraps.

I'm still waiting to get home so I can put it on. The download today took 15mins so I either got a fast mirror or got priority because of my fat-pipe. I've already got it burned and ready to send to the desktop and the laptop.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil:
 

Vapor

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I dont know why u all still rely on the old http and ftp download technology.
Maybe because my school blocks the use of BitTorrent? I've tried dling legal and illegal stuff, makes no difference, they block it all.

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.
 

Vapor

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And why not mention nV's optimizations?
They aren't boasting a 20+% performance boost on the day it comes out. First things first (that, and I don't have an nVidia card, so it's not exactly relavent to my interests). Anyway, I now have 2 accounts of why I don't think that these drivers aren't floptimized: 1) the major gain is only on 256MB cards...mem allocation problems; 2) with my 128MB 9800XT, IQ is *BETTER* with the 4.11b's (my score also rised a tad).

Cat A.I. seems fishy because of its inconsistent performance across different titles. It'll likely end up being just bugginess causing that, but for some reason a Trademarked, Patented, and marketted form of disablable optimizations just doesn't sound right yet...maybe I'm too used to being force fed optimizations, though.

Really? I think you've got it backwards, if anything ATI DID learn from the nV fiasco and learned, don't cheat, you'll get caught, and it won't be pretty. ATI is nowhere near in the same boat as nV was when it cheated, I doubt they'd risk that much when the X800XTPE still dominates the majority of benchmarks out there, so this would simply hurt their position not embolden it.
I said that out of shock...a 20% performance gain is undeniably *shocking*. After I found out the reasons behind this gain (and the ensuing IQ improvements...), I'm no longer suspecting ATi from cheating with their 4.11b's...I'm just in awe now.

Anyway, below are some benchies comparing the different versions of 4.9 to 4.11b:
CAT 4.9, 412/365;128MB
'03: 6477
'01: 17189
AM3: 43756
'05: 2235

Omega 4.9, 412/365;128MB
'03: 6465
'01: 17061
AM3: 43636
'05: 2371

DNA-Insane FPS 4.9, 412/365;128MB
'03: 6543
'01: 17184
AM3: 43733
'05: 2413

CAT 4.11b, 412/365;128MB
'03: 6484
'01: 17133
AM3: <b>47055</b>
'05: <b>2410</b>

NOTE: my '05 scores are lower than comparable graphics solutions due to 4xAGP (believe it or not) in combination with only 128MB of vmem. I don't know why my AM3 score is so good. 4.11b also cleared up some GTAVC IQ issues but with no appreciable performance gain or loss (can run the same settings fine, just nothing higher), Halo also had no appreciable performance difference, Doom3 was not tested and I don't have FarCry or either UT2k#.

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.
 
Man I really wish I wasn't at work, reading fast evolving threads at 30+ mins a post doesn't let me see your reply to the original thread before I finish typing my intial respones (like a whole thread evolved since I started reading).

You know they posted the 256mb bug a while back, eh!?!

Anywhoo, it's funny you go from basically saying ATI must be floptimizing to thinking HB's saying that, and now defending ATI, but then again saying ATI has been F'in people. It's a bug they fixed it, it's not like they wanted to hold back perfromance.

Anywhoo, FM approved or otherwise I'll still wait since all the previous issue made it past as well.



- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil:
 

Vapor

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You know they posted the 256mb bug a while back, eh!?!
Yeah!! They said they fixed it in those *awful* CAT 4.7s, too (or so I thought). Anyway, glad to see they finally FIXED it now (especially now that my 9800XT is a 128MB :mad: ).

Anywhoo, it's funny you go from basically saying ATI must be floptimizing to thinking HB's saying that, and now defending ATI, but then again saying ATI has been F'in people. It's a bug they fixed it, it's not like they wanted to hold back perfromance.
I *knew* that ATi *had* to be floptimizing to get that kind of increase! Little did I know they addressed a major issue (that I thought was already fixed). Anyway, CAT 4.11b's <b>really</b> do look nice (and best of all, they don't come with CCC!). Nonetheless, I was really pissed after I found out that the bug had not been fully addressed previously. And now I'm utterly confused on what I think...only because 1) I was so sure that ATi floptimized, then I 2) found out that they corrected a major bug that I already thought was fixed (and the timing of the fix...Oh my!), then I 3) saw the driver in action and really liked it--too much to handle for one day. What's frightening is I'm starting to switch my opinion as much as Kerry now :eek: .

4.11b's have been approved, IIRC (according to driverheaven). Even if they aren't I'd still run them (unless they really f'up FarCry or UT [I'll be buying 2k4 and FC soon...now that I've finally gotten almost 100% in VC]). I'm still very curious about my AM3 score, too.

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.
 
Hehe, I used one of the GURU mirrors and it took very little time at all (like 15mins), of course this is much slower than downloading things from people like ATI where I get speeds above 2-3M<b>B</b>/s on average, and have had one file a few months back rip in at about 7MB/s. Man it's nice to sit on unrestricted Fibre. I think it's multiple DS1-3/OC3-12 but it could be a big fat OCx single, pipe never bothered to look since coming to the new building; all I know for sure is it's mighty nice. :evil:


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: