Best mid-range card for EQ2

ginman522 · Sep 30, 2004

Hello,

I'm in the market for a new video card, my system specs are below. I plan on playing Everquest 2 this is my primary reason for the upgrade to a DX9 card. Otherwise I do not game all that much.

Recommended Specs:

Windows® 98/2000/ME/XP
Processor 2 ghz or greater
1 GB RAM
Pixel shader and vertex shader compatible hardware with 128MB of texture memory
DirectSound compatible audio hardware
Broadband Internet Connection
DVD-ROM
10 Gigabytes Hard Drive Space
DirectX 9.0 compatible video card

I have had problems with ATI cards a few years back, plus my current PC is using an nvdia card. I would like to stay under $200 for this card, thus the 5700 is current preference.

a. Should I go with 5700 non-ultra with 256mb of ram?
b. Should I go with the Ultra with 128 of DDR3?
c. Should I switch to an ATI card, 9600xt? ir Pro?

Currently I only have 512mb of ram, they recommend 1 gig at the EQ2 site, I'm not sure I'm going to be able to afford bothe new ram and vid card, since I would rather buy a new 1gig kit, than upgrade another 512mb kit. I have been told 2 512mb sticks, is much better than 4 256mb sticks. is this true?

Thank you

RG

Abit IC7-G
P4 2.8 800 OC'd to 3.2
Corsair xms twinX512-pc3200C2/PT-512mb ram
Vantec ION-400b -PS
Zalman CNPS7000A-CU
2x Western digital SATA Raptors 10k 36gig-raid 0
XFX Geforce4 ti4600 (from old PC)
Samsung SM352 52x24x52/16x 8mb
Antec Performance plusview 1000AMG
Logitech Z-640 5.1 speakers
Samsung 172T Flat Panel
Win XP PRO SP2! (New IE much improved)

Edited by ginman522 on 09/30/04 12:39 PM.

sweatlaserxp · Sep 30, 2004

Seeing as EQ2 is a shader-heavy DX9 title I wouldn't trust anything NV30, if you can drop the cash I would say go with one of the new cards from either vendor or ATi 9600/9800 Pro.

Athlon 2500+, Asus A7N8X Deluxe Rev2, 768Mb Corsair XMS 5-2-2-2.5, Sapphire 9800 Pro 128Mb, Seagate SATA 80Gb, Fortron-Source FSP400-60PFN

ginman522 · Sep 30, 2004

Do you mean like the GeForce 6800? it runs about $275, is this better the 5700 ultra for EQ2?

cleeve · Sep 30, 2004

The best card you can get for ~$150 is the 9800 PRO. It will destroy a GeforceFX 5700. It will also destroy a GeforceFX 5900, for that matter.

The best card you can get for ~$130 is the 9600XT. It will, also, destroy a GeforceFX 5700. On par with the GeforceFX 5900.

The best card you can get for $110 is a 9600 PRO. It is still better than a GeforceFX 5700.

Unless you're buying top-end Geforces (6600s and 6800s), there is no reason to buy Nvidia right now. Ati has the best cards in the bottom and mid end at the moment.

Frankly, the GeforceFX line sucks. They have horrendously weak pixel shaders and, because of this, they're DirectX 9 performance is pathetic.
The new Geforce line is very very good, but out of your price range. A Radeon 9800 is 95% as good as a Geforce 6600 GT, and it costs about 75% as much... not to mention, they're hard to find still.

9800 PRO is the way to go.

________________
Radeon 9700 PRO (o/c 332/345)
AthlonXP 3200+ (Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)
3dMark03: 5,354

RichPLS · Sep 30, 2004

ATI also makes the current best cards for the top end...
The X800XT PE, period.

========================
Try everything...
Do not be afraid of failure, for this is how we learn and grow...
Live life to the fullest...
Do not regret what you have not yet done!!!

cleeve · Sep 30, 2004

That is debatable sir, and many of m'learned colleagues would disagree with you.

However, what is not debatable is that there is no reason under the sun to buy a GeforceFX.

________________
Radeon 9700 PRO (o/c 332/345)
AthlonXP 3200+ (Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)
3dMark03: 5,354

RichPLS · Sep 30, 2004

All benchmarks I have seen put the X800 on top.
The only lagger is Doom 3, and not by much. I think drivers will change this in the next revision.
It is clear to me that the X800 PE has more raw graphics horsepower.

http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/6800andX800XT/index.htm

========================
Try everything...
Do not be afraid of failure, for this is how we learn and grow...
Live life to the fullest...
Do not regret what you have not yet done!!!

cleeve · Sep 30, 2004

It is far from clear.

The 6800 is capable of more advanced shader ops, it works better with multitexturing, and it hands the X800 XT PE it's ass in OpenGL apps.

The X800XT PE has it's own strengths, to be sure. But to proclaim the X800XT PE as the obvious choice is foolhardy, and perhaps shortsighted. Especially since hardware reviewers are far from unanimous in proclaiming it faster.

If all the hardware review's you've seen show the X800 as clearly superior, you need to be looking at more hardware reviews.

The 6800 has the potential to do what the 9700 did, to a lesser extent... that is, to assert it's forward-looking features and lasting alot longer than people assumed it would.

The bottom line is, they're both awesome cards, but it's wayyyy to early to proclaim a king.

________________
Radeon 9700 PRO (o/c 332/345)
AthlonXP 3200+ (Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)
3dMark03: 5,354

RichPLS · Sep 30, 2004

Then sir, consider it my shortsighted prediction for the long run.

========================
Try everything...
Do not be afraid of failure, for this is how we learn and grow...
Live life to the fullest...
Do not regret what you have not yet done!!!

cleeve · Sep 30, 2004

Agreed.

I'll be the devil's advocate and predict that the 6800U will do better in future apps.

We'll revisit the issue in 6 months and see how the cards "fall" with the next batch of software.

________________
Radeon 9700 PRO (o/c 332/345)
AthlonXP 3200+ (Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)
3dMark03: 5,354

RichPLS · Sep 30, 2004

Next thing you know it, you will be claiming Pescott SUX.

(

========================
Try everything...
Do not be afraid of failure, for this is how we learn and grow...
Live life to the fullest...
Do not regret what you have not yet done!!!

cleeve · Sep 30, 2004

The Prescott's need Mhz.
Prescott will best the Athlon64's if they can scale well. If they can't, and the A64's can, the Athlons will prevail this round.

64-bitness might become an issue as well, but I'll believe that when a 64-bit Windows OS is in sight...

The only thing that SUX is the GeforceFX line.

P.S. What the hell does my opinion about video card technology have to do with whether I think the Prescott SUX or not?

________________
Radeon 9700 PRO (o/c 332/345)
AthlonXP 3200+ (Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)
3dMark03: 5,354

ginman522 · Oct 1, 2004

To me it seems silly to buy an ATI 9800Pro 256mb for $300, and pass up on the x800pro 256mb for 80 bucks more. Unless the 128 mb version at $220 is the best value of all, but for EQ2, it seems a 256mb model would be best. I'm no guru though.

TheGreatGrapeApe · Oct 1, 2004

it works better with multitexturing

Just stumbled across <A HREF="http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/software/2004/3dmark05_der_performance-report/4/" target="_new">THIS</A> and remember the above statement.

<A HREF="http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/software/2004/3dmark05_der_performance-report/4/" target="_new">http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/software/2004/3dmark05_der_performance-report/4/</A>

I just found it very Ironic. 3Dmk05 is somewhat forward looking, and this is the single/multi-texture section. :evil:

Look at the very end of the article and there's a Parhelia beating out the GMA900 and 2 FX5200s. :lol:

:lol:

EDIT;
Also as a lark (because so many people still include it in benchies of these cards [WHY!]) I just had to post another item in reply to the "GF6800series handing the X800XTPE it's ass" comment :evil:

;

**
http://www.ixbt.com/video2/images/sapphire-11/q3.png
**

DAMN It won't allow direct links to the benchies, anywhoo here's screenies of it <A HREF="http://img47.exs.cx/img47/1643/q3.png" target="_new">no AA/AF</A> and <A HREF="http://" target="_new">with AA/AF</A>.

It's part of this latest review (out tomorrow

) from Digit-Life's Russian parent IXBT;

<A HREF="http://www.ixbt.com/video2/sapphire-11.shtml" target="_new">http://www.ixbt.com/video2/sapphire-11.shtml</A>

Like I've said before, give me enough reviews and with this generation I can make a winner out of any equivalent card.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

Edited by TheGreatGrapeApe on 09/30/04 05:59 PM.

EvilMike · Oct 1, 2004

I'm in the EQ2 beta and I've played around with it. It's a beautiful game and I'm running stock p4 2.8C with stock 9800pro 128mb and I have it on 1600x1200 on High Detail and I get slow downs primarily in towns and such with lots of people, but it's fine when I'm out fighting and junk. On max detail it looks very beautiful but after getting like 5 fps, I decided to switch back. Running it on 1280x1024 on Medium would probably be better and it would still look good. It also lets you tweak the settings to your content. Hope this helps.

P4 2.8ghz 800mhzFSB | Allied AL-B450E | ABIT IC7 | 1GB CorsairTwinX 400mhzDDR Dual Ch | BBA Radeon 9800Pro 128mb | 32gb WD Raptor & WD 120gb 7.2k rpm | SB Audigy LS w/ Creative T5400 5.1

TheGreatGrapeApe · Oct 1, 2004

Really it could also be your CPU, controlling/modeling where alot of people are going is quite CPU intensive. A quick and dirty test of this is to lower your reolution and visual settings a bit and see if it still slows down as much, if it still happens at slightly lower visual settings then it's definitely the CPU, if it disappears completely then yeah you probably could use a video card upgrade.

However at first blush it sounds like a system bottleneck more than a graphics card one, despite the abilities of your system.

As for 'mid-range' you've got basically the best out there right now, i the future the GF6600GT and X700XT will offer a little more, but not terribly much from your current card. If you can sell your R9800Pro and get a cheap GF6800GT or X800Pro then you'd see a big jump in performance, but really the rest would only be minor hops.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

cleeve · Oct 1, 2004

Ginman, the Ati 9800 PRO 128mb can be had for $150; it *is* silly to buy a 256mb version and not get an X800.

EQ2 is a RAM hog... but that's system ram, not texture memory. 256 megs of video ram is nice in some newer titles, but it's still no substitute for a better chipset.
In the sub $200 market, nothing will beat a $150 9800 PRO. Nothing.

Ape, you don't have to convince me of anything... I know a case can be made for either card. I just have a hard-on for disagreeing with anyone who claims victory in so close a race (especially one that is so far from the finish line).

Hell, it's relatively only recently were we able to say with absolute certainty that the 9700 series killed the FX series without any Nvidiot naysayers getting their backs up.
________________
Radeon 9700 PRO (o/c 332/345)
AthlonXP 3200+ (Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)
3dMark03: 5,354

coylter · Oct 1, 2004

Why do they keep comparing the x800xt pe to the 6800ultra....they are not in the same price range.........they should compare it to the extreme thing...

Click <A HREF="http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/you.html" target="_new">HERE</A> if you really are an idiot.

TheGreatGrapeApe · Oct 1, 2004

I know. I think that came out a little wrong I think, basically agreeing with your original point, and backing it up with what I said about the FX5600U-R2 and FX5700U versus the R9600s, initially we had wins/losses, now there's clear winners. It was really directed at the other poster not you, but unfortunately the way I formated it it was kind not clear I see.

I expect the GF6800U to be the clear winner in the end, but when the architectural advantages matter I don't know. At that point it may not matter much, and at that point maybe both will be unplayable with the new feature, the ATI because of the limitations, the nV because of the resultant framerate.

As for the FXs, yeah the only one that has remained a good choice (not always great) is the FX5900XT. It still has limited appeal, but for the right price it's still usually an easily defendable choice, as are the GF6800GTs.

Top End's bogus anyways, due to inflated prices.

Coylter, The reason they don't bench the GF6800UE is because it's a phantom card, mainly there for PR. Closest you get in any quantity is the BFG OC version. Even Gainward's water monster is a rarity. The X800XTPE and GF6800U are definitely each other's competition.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - RED GREEN GA to SK :evil:

skinnyjoint · Oct 2, 2004

maybe this is a stupid question maybe not but which is better the 256 version of the 9800 pro or the 128 cuz i know that sometimes its just stupid to get the extra if i can recall ppl back to the ti4200 there was a 64 and a 128 version well the 64 clocked better than tha 128 90 percent of the time.

Best mid-range card for EQ2

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