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WTB multi jamma boards

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Anonymous
May 29, 2005 1:46:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

Hello yes I know Clay sells them, but he's the slowest must unreliable
person to deal with, So I was wondering if anyone has a multi jamma
board with 5 or less Switchboards.

Thanks,
taunt9@gmail.com_removeme

More about : wtb multi jamma boards

Anonymous
May 29, 2005 1:46:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

arcadeguy wrote:
> I have bought a bunch from arcadeshop.com @$379 and I thought the price
> was reasonable so what is your price?
>
> Don
>

$379 is pretty high imo, but im not complaining about it. obviously
people have lined up to buy them. sounds like a win-win situation. you
guys shouldnt begrudge anyone for selling what they have for whatever
price they choose. its a free market and anyone else in here can go out
and do the same thing. if you think someones price is too high then
dont buy it. cant believe i stuck up for steven again.

tisk tisk don, already said im not going to say anything else about my
boards until there is a true release date. also wont answer any emails
about it.

i went out and ran a shitload of baby pac cpos, baby pac side art, dk
side art and now centipede side art. i took the financial risks, i set
the selling price. how many people in here took advantage of the
incredibly low prices i was selling them at? well, lots of you did, and
many of you bought multiples and resold them when i ran out. thats how
the economy of scale work. yet i get people (almost on a daily basis)
asking me to run 1000 of something because they think my current price
is too high on something i ran 150 of. go figure.

so if i bought 1000 boards to get the price lower why is it so
important that anyone knows what my margins are? i didnt get any emails
from anyone asking me to stop selling baby pac cpos, baby pac side art
and dk side art at cost. i sold over 250 sets of centipede side art for
$60 where my competitor is selling his for $125, but nobody begged me
to stop that either (well secretly i heard my competitor was crying
about it).

i can tell you these boards do not cost $40, even at this quantity. if
i ran to china i probably could get that price. but im having them made
right here in phoenix az.

i ask once again, lets get more quality people in the repro game and
spread the risks out amongst us and bring more projects to market. we
need more people. we dont need loud mouths like joe bachman who run
around telling everyone he will make repros that are higher quality at
lower prices than whats available now. ive heard this for 2 years now
from him and hes now too busy apparently ripping people off in here
with their boards.


sorry for the rant guys, but sometimes certain comments amaze me. about
every 3 months i feel the need to vent like a little schoool girl.
Anonymous
May 29, 2005 1:46:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

Wow... Darin you should run for politcal office with the way you
avoided to answer my question...

> arcadeguy wrote:
> > I have bought a bunch from arcadeshop.com @$379 and I thought the price
> > was reasonable so what is your price?
> >
> > Don

Why is $379 reasonable?
1. I buy alot from Steven and he has stood behind everything he has
sold me with any problems or mixups.
2. Quality work.

I havent bought anything from you because I never see anything I need
but the multi williams boards I like and need.
I dont want to cause a war between you and Steven or between you and
anyone else. I just like to keep my options open.
If youve bought a 1000 you obviously know your cost And projected sale
price.

So what is your price?

Don

> $379 is pretty high imo, but im not complaining about it. obviously
> people have lined up to buy them. sounds like a win-win situation. you
> guys shouldnt begrudge anyone for selling what they have for whatever
> price they choose. its a free market and anyone else in here can go out
> and do the same thing. if you think someones price is too high then
> dont buy it. cant believe i stuck up for steven again.
>
> tisk tisk don, already said im not going to say anything else about my
> boards until there is a true release date. also wont answer any emails
> about it.
>
> i went out and ran a shitload of baby pac cpos, baby pac side art, dk
> side art and now centipede side art. i took the financial risks, i set
> the selling price. how many people in here took advantage of the
> incredibly low prices i was selling them at? well, lots of you did, and
> many of you bought multiples and resold them when i ran out. thats how
> the economy of scale work. yet i get people (almost on a daily basis)
> asking me to run 1000 of something because they think my current price
> is too high on something i ran 150 of. go figure.
>
> so if i bought 1000 boards to get the price lower why is it so
> important that anyone knows what my margins are? i didnt get any emails
> from anyone asking me to stop selling baby pac cpos, baby pac side art
> and dk side art at cost. i sold over 250 sets of centipede side art for
> $60 where my competitor is selling his for $125, but nobody begged me
> to stop that either (well secretly i heard my competitor was crying
> about it).
>
> i can tell you these boards do not cost $40, even at this quantity. if
> i ran to china i probably could get that price. but im having them made
> right here in phoenix az.
>
> i ask once again, lets get more quality people in the repro game and
> spread the risks out amongst us and bring more projects to market. we
> need more people. we dont need loud mouths like joe bachman who run
> around telling everyone he will make repros that are higher quality at
> lower prices than whats available now. ive heard this for 2 years now
> from him and hes now too busy apparently ripping people off in here
> with their boards.
>
>
> sorry for the rant guys, but sometimes certain comments amaze me. about
> every 3 months i feel the need to vent like a little schoool girl.
Related resources
Anonymous
May 29, 2005 1:46:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

i hope I didnt come off that way because I didnt intend it to
sound like that.
I just want to know his price since I have been hemming and
hawing about buying a multi jamma board for about 6 months.
Clay has been always great to deal with and he does quality
work but like i said before. I want to keep my options open
and its spring time. I want to open my 'barncade' and I would
like to get one installed in my jamma cab.

Don


Matt Mac Donagh wrote:
> There's an awful lot of bitching going on in here. Why not be happy that
> Darin is giving us another option instead of riding his ass for answers.
>
> He will tell us what he wants for them when the time is right. God forbid
> some one tries to do something that will earn him a living. Shame on you
> Darin.
>
> Kinda reminds me of an old thread of mine where I mentioned I would not go
> to my local post office to ship stuff unless I was paid my hourly rate to
> stand there and wait.
>
> If you dont like it... TOO BAD!!!
Anonymous
May 29, 2005 1:46:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

Dane L. Galden (at at) wrote:
> Actually, I'm grateful that Darin is coming in to help drive the cost of
> these down (assuming his is at least a little cheaper, and does that).
> Furthermore, I would hate to see there be such cut-throat competition that
> Darin loses money on these.

dane my comments werent really directed towards you, just the situation
i suppose. i have no problems with you, i would have contacted you
directly. but don knows exactly what i typed before he asked, i wont
answer questions about the boards (including price). why is that so
hard for him to accept? its going to be cheaper than $379, a lot
cheaper. but i wont be specific in case something happens along the
way. this is my first board venture. clay is a proven commodity, most
of his stuff is totally sweet and reliable. we can easily co-exist.

i tried to get the boards from clay but he told me steven had the
exclusive and i had to buy from him. so now clay face competition.
steven stopped selling anything to me a long time ago. whatever.

so i decided to hire a guy who knows boards (actually has some current
patents and some pending) and see what he can come up with. his first
proto was killer, but so was the cost, a killer to your pocketbook! we
may revisit this one later on a small run if people want it.

there was a redesigned proto that i ran in a cabinet for 2 weeks
straight in arizona heat (in my garage too!) and i had no issues. i
even had a few local collectors come over and test it themselves. this
is what i ordered 1000 of. again this is new territory for me. my goal
is to make a lot of money and to sell all 1000. then maybe do another
version of the board. who knows? i may totally fail at this and
disappoint you all. but please be patient and give me a chance. when im
ready to release ill tell you anything you want to know, even don. :p 
Anonymous
May 29, 2005 1:46:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

Steve Muccione wrote:
> Ok.. I'm confused... I thought Darin announced that he was going to be
> selling a multi-jamma + switchboard setup... what does this have to do with
> emu's and roms?
>

i havent publicly committed to any specific design. sorry if i led
anyone astray.
Anonymous
May 29, 2005 2:59:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

"James Wood" <headtrippn@aol.com> wrote in message
news:qbCdnZOJhKDcbwXfRVn-uA@bluevalley.net...
> Must be one heck of a markup on these boards if you can afford to go and
> purchase 1,000 at a shot.
>

That's a good point. This is not directed at Darin, since we don't know how
much his board will cost, but it has always bothered my that those other
boards are near $400. Even at a "typical" markup of doubling the price,
that would mean the boards should cost $200 each. Apprarently they don't,
and so the crusade continues to figure out why people charge so much for
those boards and why people pay so much for those boards.

Dane.
Anonymous
May 29, 2005 3:00:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

I'm totally confused now too. ;-) I think people are talking two different
things here...

The original poster was referring to "switchboards", so I'm going to wager a
guess that he was interested in my "MultiJAMMA" product which allows you to
take up to 8 individual JAMMA game boards are run them in one cabinet.

I think Darin is talking about a new JAMMA board to run emulation software
to play multiple games from one circuit board?

Different critters at any rate... I think. Maybe. I dunno. ;-)

-Clay
Anonymous
May 29, 2005 5:00:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

Charge whatever the market will bear. More power to you. I would like to
see some people use common sense, though, and realize that if the price
seems a little high compared to the true cost to produce these and no one
buys them, then the price will drop. Or, if as you say, more people start
making these, then the price would drop. I guess if people were selling
their own work, I wouldn't have such a problem with them charging as much as
they wanted it. But it still bothers me that people charge such inflated
prices for what is essentially pirated ROMs. Nothing personal, Darin. This
is not about you or against your efforts. In fact, your entry to the market
should help the situation (depending on your price, of course).

Dane.

"phoenixarcade.com" <azarcadegames@cox.net> wrote in message
news:1117327310.659595.145470@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> arcadeguy wrote:
> > I have bought a bunch from arcadeshop.com @$379 and I thought the price
> > was reasonable so what is your price?
> >
> > Don
> >
>
> $379 is pretty high imo, but im not complaining about it. obviously
> people have lined up to buy them. sounds like a win-win situation. you
> guys shouldnt begrudge anyone for selling what they have for whatever
> price they choose. its a free market and anyone else in here can go out
> and do the same thing. if you think someones price is too high then
> dont buy it. cant believe i stuck up for steven again.
>
> tisk tisk don, already said im not going to say anything else about my
> boards until there is a true release date. also wont answer any emails
> about it.
>
> i went out and ran a shitload of baby pac cpos, baby pac side art, dk
> side art and now centipede side art. i took the financial risks, i set
> the selling price. how many people in here took advantage of the
> incredibly low prices i was selling them at? well, lots of you did, and
> many of you bought multiples and resold them when i ran out. thats how
> the economy of scale work. yet i get people (almost on a daily basis)
> asking me to run 1000 of something because they think my current price
> is too high on something i ran 150 of. go figure.
>
> so if i bought 1000 boards to get the price lower why is it so
> important that anyone knows what my margins are? i didnt get any emails
> from anyone asking me to stop selling baby pac cpos, baby pac side art
> and dk side art at cost. i sold over 250 sets of centipede side art for
> $60 where my competitor is selling his for $125, but nobody begged me
> to stop that either (well secretly i heard my competitor was crying
> about it).
>
> i can tell you these boards do not cost $40, even at this quantity. if
> i ran to china i probably could get that price. but im having them made
> right here in phoenix az.
>
> i ask once again, lets get more quality people in the repro game and
> spread the risks out amongst us and bring more projects to market. we
> need more people. we dont need loud mouths like joe bachman who run
> around telling everyone he will make repros that are higher quality at
> lower prices than whats available now. ive heard this for 2 years now
> from him and hes now too busy apparently ripping people off in here
> with their boards.
>
>
> sorry for the rant guys, but sometimes certain comments amaze me. about
> every 3 months i feel the need to vent like a little schoool girl.
>
Anonymous
May 29, 2005 5:00:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

The market will eventually dictate the price. If steven is making too much,
someone will step in and charge less. Maybe it's Darrin. Maybe its the
next guy after him. It's the nature of how things work. As far as charging
for pirated ROMS, I know Stevens board does not do that. It is merely the
hardware to run the ROMS. Now, lets be honest, its sole purpose is to run
those ROMS, but he is not including them. A PC can also run the ROMS, but
doesn't include them. It doesn't make selling PC's illegal or immoral. I
have no idea how darrins board works, but it would probably be wise to take
the same approach that steven did. I don't think making the japanese style
boards here in america would be wise.


"Dane L. Galden" <chigroup(at)ix.netcom.comCHANGE(at)TO@> wrote in message
news:yu8me.12215$w21.10190@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Charge whatever the market will bear. More power to you. I would like to
> see some people use common sense, though, and realize that if the price
> seems a little high compared to the true cost to produce these and no one
> buys them, then the price will drop. Or, if as you say, more people start
> making these, then the price would drop. I guess if people were selling
> their own work, I wouldn't have such a problem with them charging as much
> as
> they wanted it. But it still bothers me that people charge such inflated
> prices for what is essentially pirated ROMs. Nothing personal, Darin.
> This
> is not about you or against your efforts. In fact, your entry to the
> market
> should help the situation (depending on your price, of course).
>
> Dane.
>
> "phoenixarcade.com" <azarcadegames@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:1117327310.659595.145470@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>> arcadeguy wrote:
>> > I have bought a bunch from arcadeshop.com @$379 and I thought the price
>> > was reasonable so what is your price?
>> >
>> > Don
>> >
>>
>> $379 is pretty high imo, but im not complaining about it. obviously
>> people have lined up to buy them. sounds like a win-win situation. you
>> guys shouldnt begrudge anyone for selling what they have for whatever
>> price they choose. its a free market and anyone else in here can go out
>> and do the same thing. if you think someones price is too high then
>> dont buy it. cant believe i stuck up for steven again.
>>
>> tisk tisk don, already said im not going to say anything else about my
>> boards until there is a true release date. also wont answer any emails
>> about it.
>>
>> i went out and ran a shitload of baby pac cpos, baby pac side art, dk
>> side art and now centipede side art. i took the financial risks, i set
>> the selling price. how many people in here took advantage of the
>> incredibly low prices i was selling them at? well, lots of you did, and
>> many of you bought multiples and resold them when i ran out. thats how
>> the economy of scale work. yet i get people (almost on a daily basis)
>> asking me to run 1000 of something because they think my current price
>> is too high on something i ran 150 of. go figure.
>>
>> so if i bought 1000 boards to get the price lower why is it so
>> important that anyone knows what my margins are? i didnt get any emails
>> from anyone asking me to stop selling baby pac cpos, baby pac side art
>> and dk side art at cost. i sold over 250 sets of centipede side art for
>> $60 where my competitor is selling his for $125, but nobody begged me
>> to stop that either (well secretly i heard my competitor was crying
>> about it).
>>
>> i can tell you these boards do not cost $40, even at this quantity. if
>> i ran to china i probably could get that price. but im having them made
>> right here in phoenix az.
>>
>> i ask once again, lets get more quality people in the repro game and
>> spread the risks out amongst us and bring more projects to market. we
>> need more people. we dont need loud mouths like joe bachman who run
>> around telling everyone he will make repros that are higher quality at
>> lower prices than whats available now. ive heard this for 2 years now
>> from him and hes now too busy apparently ripping people off in here
>> with their boards.
>>
>>
>> sorry for the rant guys, but sometimes certain comments amaze me. about
>> every 3 months i feel the need to vent like a little schoool girl.
>>
>
>
Anonymous
May 29, 2005 5:00:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

There's an awful lot of bitching going on in here. Why not be happy that
Darin is giving us another option instead of riding his ass for answers.

He will tell us what he wants for them when the time is right. God forbid
some one tries to do something that will earn him a living. Shame on you
Darin.

Kinda reminds me of an old thread of mine where I mentioned I would not go
to my local post office to ship stuff unless I was paid my hourly rate to
stand there and wait.

If you dont like it... TOO BAD!!!
Anonymous
May 29, 2005 6:49:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

Actually, I'm grateful that Darin is coming in to help drive the cost of
these down (assuming his is at least a little cheaper, and does that).
Furthermore, I would hate to see there be such cut-throat competition that
Darin loses money on these. (Okay, I guess I would only hate it after I
bought one.) My comments and complaints are NOT directed towards Darin. I
chime in with the gripe about paying $400 for pirated ROMs everytime I see a
thread on this that goes beyond a few posts. And honestly I really don't
have a problem with these old ROMs in general, especially from very old
games where the copyrights are not being preserved or exploited by the
original owner or current rights holder. What I have a problem with is
people selling the pirated ROMs for a price above and beyond a simple
convenience fee. They deserve to be compensated for the board and
materials, perhaps a little for "R&D," and a profit on those--but those
only. Not inflated prices because they sell people on the idea that their
board plays 400 or whatever games (which they do not own nor contributed to
in any way).

I am not against the jamma boards any more than I am against selling PCs
that can run MAME--except if/when the PCs are jacked up beyond their worth
because someone copies a bunch of ROMs onto the hard drive. Fortunately,
most sane people (at least in this ng) won't pay an inflated price for a PC
simply because it has some ROMs on the hard drive. Yet for some
inexplicable reason, they willingly shell out inflated prices for a jamma
board that is essentially the same thing. I realize it is hard to "organize
a boycott," if that's the phrase I am looking for, but for the sake of
convenience I see too many people looking past what is reasonable and just
paying whatever these people ask for these boards. If the computer pricing
analogy held up, then people would expect to pay less for these boards over
time or pay the same price even though more ROMs were added to the boards.
Instead, they almost drool with excitement to pay an inflated price for what
is essentially the same board with more ROMs added to it.

Darin, good luck to you. And I hope you can bring some sanity back to the
pricing. I hate to see all these pirates being able to gouge people for
things that are not their own creation.

Dane.


"Matt Mac Donagh" <gamefixer@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:tOGdnYdWS58VgQTfRVn-3A@starstream.net...
> There's an awful lot of bitching going on in here. Why not be happy that
> Darin is giving us another option instead of riding his ass for answers.
>
> He will tell us what he wants for them when the time is right. God forbid
> some one tries to do something that will earn him a living. Shame on you
> Darin.
>
> Kinda reminds me of an old thread of mine where I mentioned I would not go
> to my local post office to ship stuff unless I was paid my hourly rate to
> stand there and wait.
>
> If you dont like it... TOO BAD!!!
>
>
Anonymous
May 29, 2005 6:49:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

I may have been a little harsh so if I was then sorry about that.

I just had to chime in and defend Darin. He's done the same for me.

Matt
Anonymous
May 29, 2005 6:49:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

> convenience I see too many people looking past what is reasonable and just
> paying whatever these people ask for these boards.


If people are willing to pay for it, then the price is reasonable. Its just
not reasonable to
you.
Anonymous
May 29, 2005 7:15:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

>tisk tisk don, already said im not going to say anything else about my
>boards until there is a true release date. also wont answer any emails
>about it.

I thought he answered it pretty straight forward!

"arcadeguy" <arcadeguy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1117327967.789485.317460@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Wow... Darin you should run for politcal office with the way you
> avoided to answer my question...
>
>> arcadeguy wrote:
>> > I have bought a bunch from arcadeshop.com @$379 and I thought the price
>> > was reasonable so what is your price?
>> >
>> > Don
>
> Why is $379 reasonable?
> 1. I buy alot from Steven and he has stood behind everything he has
> sold me with any problems or mixups.
> 2. Quality work.
>
> I havent bought anything from you because I never see anything I need
> but the multi williams boards I like and need.
> I dont want to cause a war between you and Steven or between you and
> anyone else. I just like to keep my options open.
> If youve bought a 1000 you obviously know your cost And projected sale
> price.
>
> So what is your price?
>
> Don
>
>> $379 is pretty high imo, but im not complaining about it. obviously
>> people have lined up to buy them. sounds like a win-win situation. you
>> guys shouldnt begrudge anyone for selling what they have for whatever
>> price they choose. its a free market and anyone else in here can go out
>> and do the same thing. if you think someones price is too high then
>> dont buy it. cant believe i stuck up for steven again.
>>
>> tisk tisk don, already said im not going to say anything else about my
>> boards until there is a true release date. also wont answer any emails
>> about it.
>>
>> i went out and ran a shitload of baby pac cpos, baby pac side art, dk
>> side art and now centipede side art. i took the financial risks, i set
>> the selling price. how many people in here took advantage of the
>> incredibly low prices i was selling them at? well, lots of you did, and
>> many of you bought multiples and resold them when i ran out. thats how
>> the economy of scale work. yet i get people (almost on a daily basis)
>> asking me to run 1000 of something because they think my current price
>> is too high on something i ran 150 of. go figure.
>>
>> so if i bought 1000 boards to get the price lower why is it so
>> important that anyone knows what my margins are? i didnt get any emails
>> from anyone asking me to stop selling baby pac cpos, baby pac side art
>> and dk side art at cost. i sold over 250 sets of centipede side art for
>> $60 where my competitor is selling his for $125, but nobody begged me
>> to stop that either (well secretly i heard my competitor was crying
>> about it).
>>
>> i can tell you these boards do not cost $40, even at this quantity. if
>> i ran to china i probably could get that price. but im having them made
>> right here in phoenix az.
>>
>> i ask once again, lets get more quality people in the repro game and
>> spread the risks out amongst us and bring more projects to market. we
>> need more people. we dont need loud mouths like joe bachman who run
>> around telling everyone he will make repros that are higher quality at
>> lower prices than whats available now. ive heard this for 2 years now
>> from him and hes now too busy apparently ripping people off in here
>> with their boards.
>>
>>
>> sorry for the rant guys, but sometimes certain comments amaze me. about
>> every 3 months i feel the need to vent like a little schoool girl.
>
Anonymous
May 29, 2005 7:22:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

Ok.. I'm confused... I thought Darin announced that he was going to be
selling a multi-jamma + switchboard setup... what does this have to do with
emu's and roms?

"Dane L. Galden" <chigroup(at)ix.netcom.comCHANGE(at)TO@> wrote in message
news:65ame.9554$uR4.9545@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Actually, I'm grateful that Darin is coming in to help drive the cost of
> these down (assuming his is at least a little cheaper, and does that).
> Furthermore, I would hate to see there be such cut-throat competition that
> Darin loses money on these. (Okay, I guess I would only hate it after I
> bought one.) My comments and complaints are NOT directed towards Darin.
> I
> chime in with the gripe about paying $400 for pirated ROMs everytime I see
> a
> thread on this that goes beyond a few posts. And honestly I really don't
> have a problem with these old ROMs in general, especially from very old
> games where the copyrights are not being preserved or exploited by the
> original owner or current rights holder. What I have a problem with is
> people selling the pirated ROMs for a price above and beyond a simple
> convenience fee. They deserve to be compensated for the board and
> materials, perhaps a little for "R&D," and a profit on those--but those
> only. Not inflated prices because they sell people on the idea that their
> board plays 400 or whatever games (which they do not own nor contributed
> to
> in any way).
>
> I am not against the jamma boards any more than I am against selling PCs
> that can run MAME--except if/when the PCs are jacked up beyond their worth
> because someone copies a bunch of ROMs onto the hard drive. Fortunately,
> most sane people (at least in this ng) won't pay an inflated price for a
> PC
> simply because it has some ROMs on the hard drive. Yet for some
> inexplicable reason, they willingly shell out inflated prices for a jamma
> board that is essentially the same thing. I realize it is hard to
> "organize
> a boycott," if that's the phrase I am looking for, but for the sake of
> convenience I see too many people looking past what is reasonable and just
> paying whatever these people ask for these boards. If the computer
> pricing
> analogy held up, then people would expect to pay less for these boards
> over
> time or pay the same price even though more ROMs were added to the boards.
> Instead, they almost drool with excitement to pay an inflated price for
> what
> is essentially the same board with more ROMs added to it.
>
> Darin, good luck to you. And I hope you can bring some sanity back to the
> pricing. I hate to see all these pirates being able to gouge people for
> things that are not their own creation.
>
> Dane.
>
>
> "Matt Mac Donagh" <gamefixer@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:tOGdnYdWS58VgQTfRVn-3A@starstream.net...
>> There's an awful lot of bitching going on in here. Why not be happy that
>> Darin is giving us another option instead of riding his ass for answers.
>>
>> He will tell us what he wants for them when the time is right. God forbid
>> some one tries to do something that will earn him a living. Shame on you
>> Darin.
>>
>> Kinda reminds me of an old thread of mine where I mentioned I would not
>> go
>> to my local post office to ship stuff unless I was paid my hourly rate to
>> stand there and wait.
>>
>> If you dont like it... TOO BAD!!!
>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
May 29, 2005 7:40:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

"Steve Muccione" <home*DOT*muccione@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:yzame.7527$zb.2998@trndny01...
> Ok.. I'm confused... I thought Darin announced that he was going to be
> selling a multi-jamma + switchboard setup... what does this have to do
with
> emu's and roms?
>

Maybe nothing... I was responding to a later post, and not necessarily to
the original. The subject line says "multi jamma boards" and I believe the
original post was about buying one of those board with multiple ROMs. And
there is another post on here about the same time inquiring about the
400-in-1. I'm not even sure that Darin has let the cat out of the bag about
what exactly his project is, that's why I feel a little bad that he has
gotten drug into this. Now all the posts seem to be defending Darin, when
I'm not sure it was ever anyone's intention to bash Darin. Certainly that
was not mine. I am simply venting about the multi-jamma boards as I do from
time to time, and actually my posts have been meant to point out why I hope
people would stop buying these other boards, especially given the fact that
I was/am under the impression that Darin's project (when he announces it)
will render these other boards irrelevant.

Dane.
Anonymous
May 29, 2005 8:43:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

"Mickey Johnson" <mickster@derbyworks.net> wrote in message
news:119igtvn1gjro54@news.supernews.com...
> > convenience I see too many people looking past what is reasonable and
just
> > paying whatever these people ask for these boards.
>
>
> If people are willing to pay for it, then the price is reasonable. Its
just
> not reasonable to
> you.
>

That's not always the case. Many times people get caught up with emotions
that do not allow for rational thinking. It's no different than a run on
the grocery store when a storm is coming. In that case, the government
steps in to prevent price gouging. Same thing with oil shocks due to
perceived shortages from war/conflict/other price spikes. Just because
people pay the asking price does not make it reasonable or rational.
Another good example are auctions. Many times people go above what they
think/know they should bid because they get caught up with emotion or worry
that they might not get a chance for another one--sometimes followed by
"buyer's remorse" afterwards. Of course, the government doesn't step in
with those cases to protect the people from themselves or to keep the price
gouging people at bay. I think these multi-jamma boards fall into this
auction category. "Irrational exuberance" on display. I am certainly not
advocating government intervention :-P but just pointing out that people
being willing to pay a price does not mean that the price is necessarily
reasonable. Anyway, I've probably put more energy into this thread than it
warrants. I initially hopped in to do my periodic rant about the
multi-jamma board prices, and to express my hope that Darin's entry might
begin to bring sanity to the pricing of these boards. Half of my posts are
falling on deaf ears and the other half are preaching to the choir. Such is
life.

Dane.
Anonymous
May 29, 2005 12:37:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

>> > convenience I see too many people looking past what is reasonable and
> just
>> > paying whatever these people ask for these boards.
>>
>>
>> If people are willing to pay for it, then the price is reasonable. Its
> just
>> not reasonable to
>> you.
>>
>
> That's not always the case. Many times people get caught up with emotions
> that do not allow for rational thinking. It's no different than a run on
> the grocery store when a storm is coming.


No, it is different. As much as you would like to think that they are
overpriced, to most people, the truth is they are not. They seem high
priced to you most likely since you don't plan on making money off of the
pcb. Look, an average tested working classic pcb (that most likely is not
jamma) is going to be $100-200 (for one game). A cheap computer loaded with
software with an I-pac interface is going to be $200-300 (thats for used
computer, not new). So why is it hard to believe that people are willing to
pay a bit more than that to have a pcb that is just plug and play??

You can argue price fairness all you want, but when it gets right down to
it, if people are willing to pay a price on a regular item, that is not
required to survive (like food, heat, gas, etc...), then thats what its
worth. What you are stuck on is that you think that a person should design
a product, mark it up a certain percentage, and thats what they should
charge. It doesn't work that way. A person designs a product and then
charges as much as the market will bear. Especially on a niche product that
has extra issues (mainly the fact that its illegal to begin with).


One thing about ebay, it has truly shown what everything is worth
widespread. Love it or hate it, you can't argue with it.

Later,

Mickey
Anonymous
May 29, 2005 2:54:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

"Keith in NJ" <winner@soulshot.com> wrote in message
news:UpSdnWHJYId8UQTfRVn-3g@comcast.com...
> guys. go play your games. remember.. games.. fun.. enjoyment.. as opposed
to
> newsgroup.. bickering.. agruing... aka: exatcly opposite of the purpose of
> collecting.

Uhhhhhhhhmmmm... Exactly what part of my post did you consider
bickering/arguing/etc? I was just giving a technical explanation of a
design decision on my MultiJAMMA...

-Clay
Anonymous
May 29, 2005 3:25:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

Clay Cowgill wrote:
> "Keith in NJ" <winner@soulshot.com> wrote in message
> news:UpSdnWHJYId8UQTfRVn-3g@comcast.com...
> > guys. go play your games. remember.. games.. fun.. enjoyment.. as opposed
> to
> > newsgroup.. bickering.. agruing... aka: exatcly opposite of the purpose of
> > collecting.
>
> Uhhhhhhhhmmmm... Exactly what part of my post did you consider
> bickering/arguing/etc? I was just giving a technical explanation of a
> design decision on my MultiJAMMA...
>
> -Clay

fwwi, i own clays multijamma setup for about 4 years now and im still
quite happy with it.
Anonymous
May 29, 2005 4:32:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

And I'm about to own one and can't wait!

Brent
"phoenixarcade.com" <azarcadegames@cox.net> wrote in message
news:1117391134.274745.162260@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Clay Cowgill wrote:
> > "Keith in NJ" <winner@soulshot.com> wrote in message
> > news:UpSdnWHJYId8UQTfRVn-3g@comcast.com...
> > > guys. go play your games. remember.. games.. fun.. enjoyment.. as
opposed
> > to
> > > newsgroup.. bickering.. agruing... aka: exatcly opposite of the
purpose of
> > > collecting.
> >
> > Uhhhhhhhhmmmm... Exactly what part of my post did you consider
> > bickering/arguing/etc? I was just giving a technical explanation of a
> > design decision on my MultiJAMMA...
> >
> > -Clay
>
> fwwi, i own clays multijamma setup for about 4 years now and im still
> quite happy with it.
>
Anonymous
May 29, 2005 7:02:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

"Mickey Johnson" <mickster@derbyworks.net> wrote in message
news:119jhcqqg10t73e@news.supernews.com...

> One thing about ebay, it has truly shown what everything is worth
> widespread. Love it or hate it, you can't argue with it.
>
> Later,
>
> Mickey
>

You make some decent points, but the problem is still that people are making
a decision based on "I want it now" rather than "what is this really worth."
eBay is, in fact, a perfect example of this. I can't tell you how many
times I have seen multiple auctions by the same seller for identical new
items, yet one of them will have a bidding war and drive the price way up,
while one or more of the other auctions will sit without bids. When
something is new and readily being produced or is made available in
quantity, this behavior makes no sense. So here eBay is not showing what
the item is truly worth. When you appraise real estate, you don't look at
the most expensive transaction and decide that is what the going price
is--and real estate is said to be unique and scarce, not a mass-produced
commodity like these eBay items. Sure eBay is an indication of value for
"rare" items, but items that are still being produced need rational and
informed consumers to say that the price is set by the market. "Informed"
also means being informed as to cost, scarcity, etc. I have said from the
beginning that everyone should charge as much as the market will bear. But
I am also an economics major who understands that a market devoid of
rational consumer behavior is not a free and balanced market. You can argue
that the consumer behavior is rational, given the limited choices for the
same product. That is why I am pleased that Darin (and others) seemed to be
committed to producing these. If nothing else, competition should bring the
costs into line. The sad part is, these makers of the multi-jamma boards
have had a virtual monopoly that is unwarranted since they do not own the
intellectual property that they were selling. I am not arguing that there
are not people who have willingly paid the money for the multi-jamma boards.
I am expressing my surprise at the sheer number of people who have decided
that any price that these guys charge is okay. I dare say that these guys
have virtually raised their prices with impugnity. Adding more pirated ROMs
to basically the same board is not adding any true value to the equation.
The price should have stayed the same even as more ROMs were added (or the
prices should have dropped). If there was rational resistance from the
beginning, we may never have seen a 400-in-1, but the 39-in-1 would be
available at a "reasonable" price. I know this is a relative term, and
unlikely to convince you. But you can't justify their price simply because
people are willing to pay it. Look at the beat-down that people get when
they try to sell the game ROMs on DVDs for "too much." The standard
response is that someone will burn them cheaper. I guess that is the crux
of the problem with the multi-jamma boards--lack of competition. That's why
I welcome Darin or anyone else jumping in. I guess I have always wanted to
see people jump in an complain about the prices for these multi-jamma boards
as the costs go up exponentially for basically the same board. I just don't
understand the way people justify paying an inflated price for these. Okay,
I'm finished ranting. I'm waiting for the sanity to return to the pricing
structure. :) 

Dane.
Anonymous
May 29, 2005 8:30:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

clay.
i was just replying in general to the thread.. not directly to your post..
though yours might have been the latest one in the thread at the time i hit
reply.

i'm just saying.. well.. i think you know what i'm saying without getting
into semantics.

i'm going outside to BBQ and play some multipac.

k.


"Clay Cowgill" <c.cowgill@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:XoCdnfaGFrPfnAffRVn-tA@comcast.com...
> "Keith in NJ" <winner@soulshot.com> wrote in message
> news:UpSdnWHJYId8UQTfRVn-3g@comcast.com...
> > guys. go play your games. remember.. games.. fun.. enjoyment.. as
opposed
> to
> > newsgroup.. bickering.. agruing... aka: exatcly opposite of the purpose
of
> > collecting.
>
> Uhhhhhhhhmmmm... Exactly what part of my post did you consider
> bickering/arguing/etc? I was just giving a technical explanation of a
> design decision on my MultiJAMMA...
>
> -Clay
>
>
Anonymous
May 29, 2005 8:31:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

i'd actually need to own more then 1 jamma board (which coincidentally i
cant even find right now.) to make use of the multi board kit.

k.


"phoenixarcade.com" <azarcadegames@cox.net> wrote in message
news:1117391134.274745.162260@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Clay Cowgill wrote:
> > "Keith in NJ" <winner@soulshot.com> wrote in message
> > news:UpSdnWHJYId8UQTfRVn-3g@comcast.com...
> > > guys. go play your games. remember.. games.. fun.. enjoyment.. as
opposed
> > to
> > > newsgroup.. bickering.. agruing... aka: exatcly opposite of the
purpose of
> > > collecting.
> >
> > Uhhhhhhhhmmmm... Exactly what part of my post did you consider
> > bickering/arguing/etc? I was just giving a technical explanation of a
> > design decision on my MultiJAMMA...
> >
> > -Clay
>
> fwwi, i own clays multijamma setup for about 4 years now and im still
> quite happy with it.
>
Anonymous
May 29, 2005 11:11:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

Ok, I am not bickering or trying to fight here, just having fun debating
this back and forth

>> One thing about ebay, it has truly shown what everything is worth
>> widespread. Love it or hate it, you can't argue with it.
>>
>>
>
> You make some decent points, but the problem is still that people are
> making
> a decision based on "I want it now" rather than "what is this really
> worth."
> eBay is, in fact, a perfect example of this. I can't tell you how many
> times I have seen multiple auctions by the same seller for identical new
> items, yet one of them will have a bidding war and drive the price way up,
> while one or more of the other auctions will sit without bids. When
> something is new and readily being produced or is made available in
> quantity, this behavior makes no sense. So here eBay is not showing what
> the item is truly worth.

ahhh, but it is. These boards are being sold for entertainment in the end
(or for someone to put on route so that it can be enjoyed as entertainment).
This is all the more reason that "I want it now" is the same as "what is
this really worth". People are not buying these boards so they can play
pacman in 10 years, they are buying them so they can play it now.
Eventually these boards will be worth nothing because no one will be
interested in playing/building multigame cabinets. Anything with
entertainment burns hot in the beginning and then fades to nothing. Also,
yes some auctions will be high, but others will just bring the minimum bid
so an average of Ebay closing amounts is what the items are worth. While
they are new boards and readily available, these type of homegrown efforts
(and they will always be since they are black market items), they will
always be limited in number which will cause the price to be higher than a
standard piece of electronics. Which is what they should be.

>When you appraise real estate, you don't look at
> the most expensive transaction and decide that is what the going price
> is--and real estate is said to be unique and scarce, not a mass-produced
> commodity like these eBay items.

Comparing bootleg pcbs to real estate is quite a stretch, while there will
be similarities in places, I sure wouldn't use that as a comparison.I
wouldn't compare the multigame pcbs to real estate. I would compare them to
pirate cable/satellite tv boxs.


>Sure eBay is an indication of value for
> "rare" items, but items that are still being produced need rational and
> informed consumers to say that the price is set by the market. "Informed"
> also means being informed as to cost, scarcity, etc. I have said from the
> beginning that everyone should charge as much as the market will bear.
> But
> I am also an economics major who understands that a market devoid of
> rational consumer behavior is not a free and balanced market.

Well, you are in the real world now so you may want to throw your 'fancy
book learnin' and switch back to common sense! (please don't take this
personal, it was meant in jest!!!)


>You can argue
> that the consumer behavior is rational, given the limited choices for the
> same product.

What I am arguing is that in this day and age, $200 means nothing (if its an
item that you really want). So if someone really wants a 400 in 1 (or
whatever item in particular you are talking about), the difference between
$200 and $400 is nothing.


>That is why I am pleased that Darin (and others) seemed to be
> committed to producing these. If nothing else, competition should bring
> the
> costs into line. The sad part is, these makers of the multi-jamma boards
> have had a virtual monopoly that is unwarranted since they do not own the
> intellectual property that they were selling. I am not arguing that there
> are not people who have willingly paid the money for the multi-jamma
> boards.
> I am expressing my surprise at the sheer number of people who have decided
> that any price that these guys charge is okay. I dare say that these guys
> have virtually raised their prices with impugnity. Adding more pirated
> ROMs
> to basically the same board is not adding any true value to the equation.
> The price should have stayed the same even as more ROMs were added (or the
> prices should have dropped). If there was rational resistance from the
> beginning, we may never have seen a 400-in-1, but the 39-in-1 would be
> available at a "reasonable" price. I know this is a relative term, and
> unlikely to convince you. But you can't justify their price simply
> because
> people are willing to pay it. Look at the beat-down that people get when
> they try to sell the game ROMs on DVDs for "too much." The standard
> response is that someone will burn them cheaper. I guess that is the crux
> of the problem with the multi-jamma boards--lack of competition. That's
> why
> I welcome Darin or anyone else jumping in. I guess I have always wanted
> to
> see people jump in an complain about the prices for these multi-jamma
> boards
> as the costs go up exponentially for basically the same board. I just
> don't
> understand the way people justify paying an inflated price for these.
> Okay,
> I'm finished ranting. I'm waiting for the sanity to return to the pricing
> structure. :) 
>
> Dane.
>

Well, put it this way, would you really want to sell bootleg pcbs (with
god knows how many copyright violations it would be per pcb) at a standard
markup?? If you want a 'magic' pcb that will do everything that you want,
expect to pay a 'magic' price. I wouldn't wait for the 'sanity' to return
to the pricing. What will happen is this.

1) interest grows
2) market grows to multiple sources and options
3) copyright holders tighten the noose
4) market collapes
5) item is unavailable

Already with some the arcade collecting craze dieing some of the pcbs are
going out of print (laser ace is a good example).


Later,
mickster
Anonymous
May 30, 2005 1:53:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

In the case of Arcadeshop's board, one could argue that they are selling
their own hard work and intellectual property. Creating that board was
probably not a simple task. I'm sure there was a good amount of R&D in it.
Also, they are not including any ROMS with it, so all you are actually
paying for is arcadeshop's work. If you legally own the ROMS for a
supported game, you can dump them and use them to play that game on this
board. Of course 99% of the people don't, but the arguement could be made
that Arcadeshop's board has value in and of itself, and legally.


"Dane L. Galden" <chigroup(at)ix.netcom.comCHANGE(at)TO@> wrote in message
news:Kdume.12617$w21.6592@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>I agree. I just don't like to see the bootleggers reap the "value" part of
> the equation when it is not their hard work or risk or intellectual
> property
> that contributed the extra value. If it was Namco putting out the
> 400-in-1
> board (ha, ha) I wouldn't bat an eye and think it was a great deal. In
> fact, look at the home console compilations--add more games for the same
> price, or even drop the price. These bootleggers have somehow become
> insulated. If business is slow or they want to make more, add more stolen
> property and all is well for them. Value may be there for the buyer, but
> I
> don't want to see the bootleggers getting more money for stuff that isn't
> theirs.
>
> Dane.
Anonymous
May 30, 2005 4:27:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

Yes, I understand your decision. But I do think it would be more
attractive to collectors if it had the option to do switched power.
I think they would be willing to pay the additional cost for the power relays.
That's the opinion I've heard from several people anyway....
You're right though... I bet most of the folks buying these could care
less about the power consumption. ;-)

Matt

> Heh-heh... Yeah, it still comes up from time to time. Most of the people
> that buy them (at least in volume anyway) are for use on location, so the
> start-up time associated with coldstarting power is not acceptable (and you
> don't really want to have the power getting flicked on and off to the board
> everytime someone flips through all the games anyway-- at least not in any
> heavy-use area). For home use you *could* just use the relay power that
> switches the sound relay to switch a power relay to the board as well, but
> you can run into issues with loading on the bus from the unpowered
> board(s)... I don't really recommend it.
>
> -Clay
Anonymous
May 30, 2005 4:54:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

>> I'm totally confused now too. ;-)

you're not the only one! God I hate when you have interleaved conversations
in the same thread... can't even get any freaking cdma processing gain in
e-mail!


"Clay Cowgill" <c.cowgill@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:u56dnarI3q-gxgTfRVn-hA@comcast.com...
> I'm totally confused now too. ;-) I think people are talking two
> different
> things here...
>
> The original poster was referring to "switchboards", so I'm going to wager
> a
> guess that he was interested in my "MultiJAMMA" product which allows you
> to
> take up to 8 individual JAMMA game boards are run them in one cabinet.
>
> I think Darin is talking about a new JAMMA board to run emulation software
> to play multiple games from one circuit board?
>
> Different critters at any rate... I think. Maybe. I dunno. ;-)
>
> -Clay
>
>
Anonymous
May 30, 2005 7:09:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

I agree... designing and implementing a multi-layer board that is capable of
operating at the speeds necessary to do the emulation is not an inexpensive
undertaking... the design tools themselves require a fairly decent outlay of
cash (in the tens of thousands depending on your choice of tool... go check
out mentor graphics if you want an idea...). Yeah.. inherently it's just a
processor, interface chip, memory, and a video board... but when you're
talking about bus speeds approaching the 100 MHz mark (or better...) design
time issues start to rear their ugly heads. While it's not terribly complex
or difficult a task, there IS risk involved... make one mistake and you are
out quite a bit of $$ for a respin... on a complex board where you
anticipate 2-3 respins prior to production the costs can easily get into the
$1000's just on the respins alone... the developer has to make this back
somehow... not to mention his time and investment to design the board in the
first place.

Yes... he doesn't own the roms that are running on it... but he does own the
design for the HW, which is what he is selling, NOT the roms...

Basically he's selling a specialized PC...

I wonder though... do these boards just incorporate the equivalent of an
IPAC on the board for input or do they use something else (go thorugh the
PCI interface?)... just curious...

steve

"Chuk" <chuk@ourcade.com> wrote in message
news:3nume.4673$8a7.2551@fe35.usenetserver.com...
> In the case of Arcadeshop's board, one could argue that they are selling
> their own hard work and intellectual property. Creating that board was
> probably not a simple task. I'm sure there was a good amount of R&D in
> it. Also, they are not including any ROMS with it, so all you are actually
> paying for is arcadeshop's work. If you legally own the ROMS for a
> supported game, you can dump them and use them to play that game on this
> board. Of course 99% of the people don't, but the arguement could be made
> that Arcadeshop's board has value in and of itself, and legally.
>
>
> "Dane L. Galden" <chigroup(at)ix.netcom.comCHANGE(at)TO@> wrote in message
> news:Kdume.12617$w21.6592@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>>I agree. I just don't like to see the bootleggers reap the "value" part
>>of
>> the equation when it is not their hard work or risk or intellectual
>> property
>> that contributed the extra value. If it was Namco putting out the
>> 400-in-1
>> board (ha, ha) I wouldn't bat an eye and think it was a great deal. In
>> fact, look at the home console compilations--add more games for the same
>> price, or even drop the price. These bootleggers have somehow become
>> insulated. If business is slow or they want to make more, add more
>> stolen
>> property and all is well for them. Value may be there for the buyer, but
>> I
>> don't want to see the bootleggers getting more money for stuff that isn't
>> theirs.
>>
>> Dane.
>
>
>
Anonymous
May 30, 2005 1:30:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

This is a hell of a thread and everyones opinion was great!

Don
Anonymous
May 31, 2005 5:57:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.video.arcade.collecting (More info?)

If the MultiJamma board can play Sinistar, why doesn't it play the
other Williams games? If it does/can, what would happen to
MultiWilliams board sales? Are people buying both or one or the other?
!