The word "MAME" & ebay

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Okay, so what happened? Did the Ultragay dearest comrade-licker-cade guy get the
rights to the word MAME?

Because, it appears that ebay is cancling all auctions with that word
in them. I thought that word was public domain.

Can anybody shed some light on this for me?

Mikey May Camelface
 
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actually i think the mame developers were able to trademark the name
after that guy tried to grab it or whatever.

they might be going the extra step now and enforcing the trademark.

www.mame.net probably has more info.

k.
 
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drmoonsparkle@aol.com wrote:
> Okay, so what happened? Did the Ultragay dearest comrade-licker-cade guy get the
> rights to the word MAME?
>


I hope so and maybe eBay sellers will have to quit spamming their
auctions with MAME in the title and description.

It is lame to use Mame :)
 
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He gave up on his attempt to secure a trademark on it. Last I heard the
rightful owner of MAME got it. Don't know why Ebay would be cancelling any
MAME-related unless *someone* is still stirring up trouble...


<drmoonsparkle@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1117747355.707144.327580@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Okay, so what happened? Did the Ultragay dearest comrade-licker-cade guy get the
> rights to the word MAME?
>
> Because, it appears that ebay is cancling all auctions with that word
> in them. I thought that word was public domain.
>
> Can anybody shed some light on this for me?
>
> Mikey May Camelface
>
 
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taken straight from mame.net

"Even though MAME allows people to enjoy the long-lost arcade games and
even some newer ones, the main purpose of the project is to document
the hardware (and software) of the arcade games. There are already many
dead arcade boards, whose function has been brought to life in MAME.
Being able to play the games is just a nice side-effect."

A side effect. A side effect harnessed by those NOT affiliated with
the MAME project to gain financially from hundreds of DONATED man hours
to produce a system that was NEVER intended for home arcade use. Any
noone can see why they are pissed?

Good for them. Try using the name of what your SELLING to gain
interest in your product.

As far as MAME is concerned? I totally appreciate what they do, and
cannot stand those who abuse the system by peddling that junk that has
most people tearing apart classics or running out to home depot to get
a truck full of wood.

What the hell has happened to the world? Remember the quote "I brought
you into this world, I'll take you out?" -> RIGHT ON!

When someone creates something it should be thier personal right to
defend the idea, it's workings, it's purpose, and the goals encircling
it. I think it;s a shame that people are bitching about what they want
done with thier creation. It belongs to them. Let them decide where
they do and do not want the name and live with it.

It is NOT your choice.. and if your so offended boycott MAME.. I'm
sure they just won't know what to do with themselves when they hear
they stand to lose the money that your not paying them..

Frankly I'm glad they are restricting the name and system to the
purpose it was intended for. Push the MAMERS out of the market and
maybe the market for *my* *real* games will go back up where a classic
belongs.

- Matt
 
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Zad,

Read KLOV's acceptable use policy. You are most certainy permitted to
do what people are doing with KLOV entries on thier auctions. No harm
No foul.

Steve,

Deep down in the core of me I have my beliefs like everyone else that
are simplistic, to the point, and I will not budge on them. I am
adament about believing that it is your decision to decide where the
fruits of your labor go and how they are used. They just plain have
every right in my eyes, even if they don't hold a copywrite at all. It
is a SHAME that we need things like copywrites and patents to protect
our ideas. Then again, how rampant is the "honor system" anymore? Do
you have children? how would you feel if the court system told you you
had no more rights to them in any way? a little drastic I suppose, but
on the same subject for sure.

My .02

- Matt
 
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When all this started, I had a hunch that the ultracade guy, acutally did it
on purpose to get someone to trademark the name, and therefore achieving his
goal, he really didn't want to own it himself, he just did this to get
someone else to cop to it.

am i making sence? or is 4 beers enough?

<drmoonsparkle@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1117747355.707144.327580@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Okay, so what happened? Did the Ultragay dearest comrade-licker-cade guy get the
> rights to the word MAME?
>
> Because, it appears that ebay is cancling all auctions with that word
> in them. I thought that word was public domain.
>
> Can anybody shed some light on this for me?
>
> Mikey May Camelface
>
 
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Ultracade wanted the trademark for themselves so they could be the only
"legitmate" facet on and off of ebay. It backfired and hurt them much
more.

Mame dev needs to get a list of respected producers and licence it out.
Take the royalties and re-invest in rare arcade boards. Heck they can
keep the re-investments for pizza or something. They really do deserve
that trademark.They DO need legitimate facets though. If they are going
to require "express consent" they should have some one trusted use it
on a regular basis.

my -2 cents

-isaac
 
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OK I read the article and I don't see your point.

1. STATUTORY FAIR USE applies for descriptive trademarks. MAME is a
made up word so not applicable.

3. COMPARATIVE ADVERTISING AS FAIR USE doesn't seem to apply as there
is no competition comparing itself to mame.

4. PARODY AS FAIR USE, nope.

That leaves 2. NOMINATIVE USE AS FAIR USE

The very first thing it says is:
[W]here the defendant uses a trademark to describe the plaintiff's
product, rather than its own, we hold that a commercial user is
entitled to a nominative fair use defense provided he meets the
following three requirements: First, the product or service in question
must be one not readily identifiable without use of the trademark;
second, only so much of the mark or marks may be used as is reasonably
necessary to identify the product or service; and third, the use must
do nothing that would, in conjunction with the mark, suggest
sponsorship or endorsement by the trademark holder.

That fails the very first test. You can easily refer to mame as the
major arcade emulator. Really, there's not even a close second. Kind
of like every January when the commercials all advertise tickets to
"the big game" or the "football championship"

I for one am sick of seeing Mame fingerboards and mame buttons in the
arcade category of ebay.


Dave

PS IANAL
 
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I see many of the points being posted... Yes, sellers like me, do use
certain words to get hits. However, ebay both encourages and
discourages the practice. From time-to-time, ebay will send me a
letter explaining how to look for and use "hot keywords" words that
appear in their most popular auctions. Yet, they discourage the
practice in other places within site.

In the past, I have sold many cabinets and coindoors as a stating place
to build any game related project. My main customer base, in that
case, would be for people who dream of have a cabinet that they can do
anything they want with. The point is, there is a market for these
usually undesired left-overs. I like the idea of something seeing use
rather than being dumped.

As for the classics, I rarely part one out. I hate to even think of
it. However, there are times when I cannot sell a full game and I have
to bust out the tools. People start asking if I can ship just this or
just that. That is the fate of my Tac/Scan. I will soon be selling
off the parts to those who wish to complete their game or make it
look/work better. I would think that such a practice betters the
collecting community even thought it is depressing to see a classic cab
robbed of its attire.

But what of the leftovers? Rusty coindoors and flawed cabs are usually
left to rot. Why not save some landfill space and let some one build a
project out of it??? Hell, even Art has trouble giving away decent
cabs, and has to trash them, at times.

As for the mame project, I have offered my PCBs up to have their ROMs
copied in the past and would do so anytime if it is asked of me. I
think it is great to have these games backed up. But these devs have
gone to far as to say that we cannot use a public domain word (which it
is) in our auctions. A monster has been created.

I have not gotten rich off selling flawed cabs and rusty coindoors for
a few bucks here and there. I just sold items to people that could use
them while keeping my trash bin empty. If I am unable to use the word,
thats fine I have other things to sell. I just find it down right
silly.

People that wish to build emulaters will not be stopped by ebay's and
the dev's actions. I am just curious what their motives are??? Are
they afraid of the manufactors comming after them for opening Pandora's
box? Can they be held liable for all those mame-powered games loose in
the world? Who scared them: Namco, Ultradouche, IT, or someone else?

Just my dollar twenty-five
 
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You can't sell anything "MAME".

You can sell something "compatible with Mame" however.

People were selling MAME artwork, Mame cabinets, Mame buttons, Mame
joysticks.

They are not MAME. They are Happ Joysticks that *can be used* for Mame....
etc...

<drmoonsparkle@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1117747355.707144.327580@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Okay, so what happened? Did the Ultragay dearest comrade-licker-cade guy get the
> rights to the word MAME?
>
> Because, it appears that ebay is cancling all auctions with that word
> in them. I thought that word was public domain.
>
> Can anybody shed some light on this for me?
>
> Mikey May Camelface
>
 
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They tried. They put the word out saying to use the word MAME in trade, you
had to ask permission. This was 3 months ago after they got control of the
trademark from Foley.

Problem was NO ONE cared and kept abusing their trademark.

Now they got rambunctious and got people to take notice.


It's keyword spam at it's most basic. If I'm building a machine I look for
"midway coin door" or "coinco coin door" or just "coin door" not MAME coin
door. It's a waste of 4 letters and a space in my book.

And no, I don't Mame... I buy and restore classics. Use mame only to try
outa game before buying the real thing... never had a Mame cab, never will.

<drmoonsparkle@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1117772316.544401.214960@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I see many of the points being posted... Yes, sellers like me, do use
> certain words to get hits. However, ebay both encourages and
> discourages the practice. From time-to-time, ebay will send me a
> letter explaining how to look for and use "hot keywords" words that
> appear in their most popular auctions. Yet, they discourage the
> practice in other places within site.
>
> In the past, I have sold many cabinets and coindoors as a stating place
> to build any game related project. My main customer base, in that
> case, would be for people who dream of have a cabinet that they can do
> anything they want with. The point is, there is a market for these
> usually undesired left-overs. I like the idea of something seeing use
> rather than being dumped.
>
> As for the classics, I rarely part one out. I hate to even think of
> it. However, there are times when I cannot sell a full game and I have
> to bust out the tools. People start asking if I can ship just this or
> just that. That is the fate of my Tac/Scan. I will soon be selling
> off the parts to those who wish to complete their game or make it
> look/work better. I would think that such a practice betters the
> collecting community even thought it is depressing to see a classic cab
> robbed of its attire.
>
> But what of the leftovers? Rusty coindoors and flawed cabs are usually
> left to rot. Why not save some landfill space and let some one build a
> project out of it??? Hell, even Art has trouble giving away decent
> cabs, and has to trash them, at times.
>
> As for the mame project, I have offered my PCBs up to have their ROMs
> copied in the past and would do so anytime if it is asked of me. I
> think it is great to have these games backed up. But these devs have
> gone to far as to say that we cannot use a public domain word (which it
> is) in our auctions. A monster has been created.
>
> I have not gotten rich off selling flawed cabs and rusty coindoors for
> a few bucks here and there. I just sold items to people that could use
> them while keeping my trash bin empty. If I am unable to use the word,
> thats fine I have other things to sell. I just find it down right
> silly.
>
> People that wish to build emulaters will not be stopped by ebay's and
> the dev's actions. I am just curious what their motives are??? Are
> they afraid of the manufactors comming after them for opening Pandora's
> box? Can they be held liable for all those mame-powered games loose in
> the world? Who scared them: Namco, Ultradouche, IT, or someone else?
>
> Just my dollar twenty-five
>
 
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won't help any... their web postings, while well meaning is exerting more
rights then they have regarding their trademark.

http://www.cll.com/articles/article.cfm?articleid=32

if your interested has a very good article regarding trademark fair use.

the mame group may very well be opening up themselves to liability by
attempting to restrain the trade of others whose use of the word mame falls
under the fair use standards .

Basically, the supreme court has stated, and further defined in the
"infringers" benifit at the end of 2004 that you are able to use the
trademark of another when "the use of the name, term, or device charged to
be an infringement is a use, otherwise than as a mark, ...of a term or
device which is descriptive of and used fairly and in good faith only to
describe the goods or services of such party, or their geographic origin."

Basically if you're describing your goods as being mame compatible and not
using MAME as a mark you are free to do so.. the mame trademark holder has
no legal recourse against you, and if he is infact petitioning e-bay to end
your auctions then he may very well be acting in restraint of trade against
you...

hope they're carefull..


<AubHtr@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1117756186.984437.290780@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> drmoonsparkle@aol.com wrote:
>> Okay, so what happened? Did the Ultragay dearest comrade-licker-cade guy get the
>> rights to the word MAME?
>>
>
>
> I hope so and maybe eBay sellers will have to quit spamming their
> auctions with MAME in the title and description.
>
> It is lame to use Mame :)
>
 
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Now if we could just get people to stop using klov descriptions in there
listings.
 
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>Let them decide where they do and do not want the name and live with it.

nice concept.. unfortunatly they don't actually have that authority... it's
fairly limited...

"Matty-t" <matthews@audio-doctors.com> wrote in message
news:1117764664.102606.58700@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> taken straight from mame.net
>
> "Even though MAME allows people to enjoy the long-lost arcade games and
> even some newer ones, the main purpose of the project is to document
> the hardware (and software) of the arcade games. There are already many
> dead arcade boards, whose function has been brought to life in MAME.
> Being able to play the games is just a nice side-effect."
>
> A side effect. A side effect harnessed by those NOT affiliated with
> the MAME project to gain financially from hundreds of DONATED man hours
> to produce a system that was NEVER intended for home arcade use. Any
> noone can see why they are pissed?
>
> Good for them. Try using the name of what your SELLING to gain
> interest in your product.
>
> As far as MAME is concerned? I totally appreciate what they do, and
> cannot stand those who abuse the system by peddling that junk that has
> most people tearing apart classics or running out to home depot to get
> a truck full of wood.
>
> What the hell has happened to the world? Remember the quote "I brought
> you into this world, I'll take you out?" -> RIGHT ON!
>
> When someone creates something it should be thier personal right to
> defend the idea, it's workings, it's purpose, and the goals encircling
> it. I think it;s a shame that people are bitching about what they want
> done with thier creation. It belongs to them. Let them decide where
> they do and do not want the name and live with it.
>
> It is NOT your choice.. and if your so offended boycott MAME.. I'm
> sure they just won't know what to do with themselves when they hear
> they stand to lose the money that your not paying them..
>
> Frankly I'm glad they are restricting the name and system to the
> purpose it was intended for. Push the MAMERS out of the market and
> maybe the market for *my* *real* games will go back up where a classic
> belongs.
>
> - Matt
>
 
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now that WOULD be copyright infringment...

of course, at least we know the seller knows *something* about the
machines... or at least knows enought to understand where to go to get
descriptions...

"zadok!" <aaron@classicarcade.org> wrote in message
news:Z6GdnZl13tMXXwLfRVn-1g@comcast.com...
> Now if we could just get people to stop using klov descriptions in there
> listings.
 
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I do notice that you are were aware enough of Ultracade's draconian
stuff that you hid the Ultracade marquee I wanted in a lot, misspelled
and "not pictured". I can't believe I actually found it (I had been
looking for one for ages).

Still, luckily I found it and it was a perfect fit for my machine!!
 
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We'll have to disagree on that then because saying it's comatible with
arcade emulators is probably almost always just as accurate. How can a
fingerboard be mame compatible and not Vantage compatible? And if not,
saying it's compatible with the major arcade emulator descripes it
uniquely.


As for the dmca affecting mame there is an exception for obsolete video
games. As far as I know there is no curently manufactured game copy
protection circumvented with mame.
 
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Either that or L@@K! M>A>M>E or maybe MAIME Or maybe L@@K SW33T MAIM
CAB! MINT!
 
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Either that or L@@K! M>A>M>E or maybe MAIME Or maybe L@@K SW33T MAIM
CAB! MINT!
 
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Hey, I agree with you whole heartedly... Unfortunatly, we've had groups like
the ACLU and such that, while admittidly having done good, are somewhat
overzealous in their pursuit of "freedom" and have done enough damage that
we no longer have some protections that we should have..

"Matty-t" <matthews@audio-doctors.com> wrote in message
news:1117767700.867116.204410@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Zad,
>
> Read KLOV's acceptable use policy. You are most certainy permitted to
> do what people are doing with KLOV entries on thier auctions. No harm
> No foul.
>
> Steve,
>
> Deep down in the core of me I have my beliefs like everyone else that
> are simplistic, to the point, and I will not budge on them. I am
> adament about believing that it is your decision to decide where the
> fruits of your labor go and how they are used. They just plain have
> every right in my eyes, even if they don't hold a copywrite at all. It
> is a SHAME that we need things like copywrites and patents to protect
> our ideas. Then again, how rampant is the "honor system" anymore? Do
> you have children? how would you feel if the court system told you you
> had no more rights to them in any way? a little drastic I suppose, but
> on the same subject for sure.
>
> My .02
>
> - Matt
>
 
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See... I would disagree... nominitive use certainly fits... "mame compatible
arcade machine"... the only way to readily identify that it is compatible
with mame is to allow it's use..

it's the same reasoining that let's 3rd party automotive suppliers advertise
that they are compatible with GM vehicles and compete directly with GM's
parts market...

"D Widel" <dwidel@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1117769193.749159.159770@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> OK I read the article and I don't see your point.
>
> 1. STATUTORY FAIR USE applies for descriptive trademarks. MAME is a
> made up word so not applicable.
>
> 3. COMPARATIVE ADVERTISING AS FAIR USE doesn't seem to apply as there
> is no competition comparing itself to mame.
>
> 4. PARODY AS FAIR USE, nope.
>
> That leaves 2. NOMINATIVE USE AS FAIR USE
>
> The very first thing it says is:
> [W]here the defendant uses a trademark to describe the plaintiff's
> product, rather than its own, we hold that a commercial user is
> entitled to a nominative fair use defense provided he meets the
> following three requirements: First, the product or service in question
> must be one not readily identifiable without use of the trademark;
> second, only so much of the mark or marks may be used as is reasonably
> necessary to identify the product or service; and third, the use must
> do nothing that would, in conjunction with the mark, suggest
> sponsorship or endorsement by the trademark holder.
>
> That fails the very first test. You can easily refer to mame as the
> major arcade emulator. Really, there's not even a close second. Kind
> of like every January when the commercials all advertise tickets to
> "the big game" or the "football championship"
>
> I for one am sick of seeing Mame fingerboards and mame buttons in the
> arcade category of ebay.
>
>
> Dave
>
> PS IANAL
>
 
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Certainly they should be scared... i'm suprised Capcom hasn't had them all
arrested for violating the "software protection" portion of the DMCA similar
to the case vs the DVD guys...

<drmoonsparkle@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1117772316.544401.214960@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I see many of the points being posted... Yes, sellers like me, do use
> certain words to get hits. However, ebay both encourages and
> discourages the practice. From time-to-time, ebay will send me a
> letter explaining how to look for and use "hot keywords" words that
> appear in their most popular auctions. Yet, they discourage the
> practice in other places within site.
>
> In the past, I have sold many cabinets and coindoors as a stating place
> to build any game related project. My main customer base, in that
> case, would be for people who dream of have a cabinet that they can do
> anything they want with. The point is, there is a market for these
> usually undesired left-overs. I like the idea of something seeing use
> rather than being dumped.
>
> As for the classics, I rarely part one out. I hate to even think of
> it. However, there are times when I cannot sell a full game and I have
> to bust out the tools. People start asking if I can ship just this or
> just that. That is the fate of my Tac/Scan. I will soon be selling
> off the parts to those who wish to complete their game or make it
> look/work better. I would think that such a practice betters the
> collecting community even thought it is depressing to see a classic cab
> robbed of its attire.
>
> But what of the leftovers? Rusty coindoors and flawed cabs are usually
> left to rot. Why not save some landfill space and let some one build a
> project out of it??? Hell, even Art has trouble giving away decent
> cabs, and has to trash them, at times.
>
> As for the mame project, I have offered my PCBs up to have their ROMs
> copied in the past and would do so anytime if it is asked of me. I
> think it is great to have these games backed up. But these devs have
> gone to far as to say that we cannot use a public domain word (which it
> is) in our auctions. A monster has been created.
>
> I have not gotten rich off selling flawed cabs and rusty coindoors for
> a few bucks here and there. I just sold items to people that could use
> them while keeping my trash bin empty. If I am unable to use the word,
> thats fine I have other things to sell. I just find it down right
> silly.
>
> People that wish to build emulaters will not be stopped by ebay's and
> the dev's actions. I am just curious what their motives are??? Are
> they afraid of the manufactors comming after them for opening Pandora's
> box? Can they be held liable for all those mame-powered games loose in
> the world? Who scared them: Namco, Ultradouche, IT, or someone else?
>
> Just my dollar twenty-five
>
 
G

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yup... you hit it right on the head...

really, the big losers are the artwork guys.. everyone else can just say
"compatible" and be scott free... the artwork guys are in use of the "mark"
and are screwed...

"anonebayseller" <anon@seller.com> wrote in message
news:119vnm9bn8tru8d@corp.supernews.com...
> You can't sell anything "MAME".
>
> You can sell something "compatible with Mame" however.
>
> People were selling MAME artwork, Mame cabinets, Mame buttons, Mame
> joysticks.
>
> They are not MAME. They are Happ Joysticks that *can be used* for
> Mame.... etc...
>
> <drmoonsparkle@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1117747355.707144.327580@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> Okay, so what happened? Did the Ultragay dearest comrade-licker-cade guy get the
>> rights to the word MAME?
>>
>> Because, it appears that ebay is cancling all auctions with that word
>> in them. I thought that word was public domain.
>>
>> Can anybody shed some light on this for me?
>>
>> Mikey May Camelface
>>
>
>
 
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