Do you smoke?

Well do you? Are you thinking about starting? Do you want a reason to quit? Well then, here you go.

I just got back from the hospital. I was visiting a friend who, for as long as I can remember, has smoked at least 2 packs a day. She is having surgery tomorrow morning to remove a tumor from her lung. However, her pulmonary function is so poor from the smoking that they don't think she will be able to come off the ventillator. Even if she makes it through the surgery tomorrow, the cancer has spread to her bones and over the next several months it will painfully eat away at her body while she goes through terrible kemotherapy and radiation treatments.

It was difficult for me to visit with her knowing that this may be the last time I ever get to talk to her. I didn't know what to say. It was very awkward. The last thing I wanted to do was to bring up her cancer or the surgery. I wish I knew what to say or do to make her feel better or to comfort her. I don't have much experience dealing with death. How does one help to comfort another about the idea of death?

I guess I am just looking for answers.

Me so horny, me love you long time!

Smoking is one of the most buck nasty things I know about. I'd rather eat chum.

Bubba, sometimes nothing needs to be said. You showed up and spent some time with your friend. That's probably all she needed. Mabye you can see her again in the next couple of days? I'd hate to die alone or without seeing any of my family or friends right before.

<font color=red>Yeah, I took a crap on your lawn. Whatcha gonna do about it?</font color=red>

Smoking is a filthy disgusting habit, but when someone gets cancer its too late to lecture, you just have to be there and support, as you did, its enough for them to know that you took the time out to visit them, which shows you care, I lost 3 Aunties and 2 Uncles in the space of 2 1/2 years all to smoking related diseases.
I dont think that you can blame someone else for your smoking either, if you smoke all your life, get cancer, how then can you turn around and sue the tobacco company.
No govt anywhere in the world has the balls to ban it completely, which is a shame.
So Bubba, sometimes there are no answers to learn, think of your friend when she was healthy, as you used to know her, not the shell she has become, keep the good memories of her, and just be a friend

No sig on this one

Thanks guys.

Me so horny, me love you long time!

I think All cigerette boxes should have pictures of damaged lungs or people with no voice boxes and other images of tobacco related health damage on one of whole Larger sides. The others should have other warnings including a large list of major illnesses you can get. The logo and other messages from the company should only have 2-3% of the box.

They should also put forms for cancer charaties in there in the expense of the cigerette company.


<font color=red><i>Tomorrow I will live, the fool does say
today itself's too late; the wise lived yesterday<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by holygrenade on 06/28/01 03:15 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

It annoys me that as I drive down the road the sides are littered with cigarette butts. It's awful nice of smokers to conside the wolrd a giant ashtray.....

<font color=red>AMD Lemmings, Intel Lemmings - They all taste like chicken....</font color=red>

To play the devil's advocate for the fourth (and hopefully final) time today.

In today's world, it's pretty ludicrous to even consider that a person could not know about the dangers of smoking. There is the countless commercials on TV (though that may just be in Wisconsin), and the news, and people's stories, and so on and so forth.

Anyone who chooses to smoke can't honestly use, "I didn't know they were dangerous to my health.", as an excuse. It's a conscious decision to start. And they have every right to do so.

Now I'm not saying that they have any right whatsoever to leave butts on the road or to force second-hand smoke on to anyone. But if a smoker chooses to smoke in private, in a manner that doesn't affect their kids, then they're perfectly welcome to do so. If they choose to smoke with a bunch of other people that smoke, in a manner that doesn't inflict second-hand smoke on anyone that doesn't want it, then they have every right to do so.

And there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with companies sellings products like this. What is wrong is the way that some people use the products. Nothing more, nothing less. Because no one forces a kid to start smoking. They choose to of their own free will, and knowing exactly what it can do even if the carton doesn't say so on it. No one is that nieve.

So if someone wants to smoke in a way that doesn't harm anyone, let them. If someone smokes in a way that harms someone else, get on their case for harming someone else, not for smoking itself.

No one gets angry about model glue resellers for selling a poisonous product with a hardly noticable poison notice label that under-age people abuse. So if you want to get on a tobacco comany's case for doing the same thing, then fight for ALL of the injustices, not just for specific ones that make you feel morally superior. Be fair about it, not just self-righteous.

- Fuzzy logic? There's so much dust in there that the whole damn computer is fuzzy!

A couple of things I thought I'd bring up. I know these have been discussed in part in many different threads, but here goes.

First of all as far as people knowing that cigarettes are bad for you I would tend to agree. However, I can also understand that some people wouldn't know. I have run into and dealt with far too many morons to think otherwise. Look around you. I'm sure you have morons surrounding you right now. They might be intelligent, they might not, but they surely have no common sense or instinct. Ask them outright and I'm sure they get lost at the mall on a regular basis. Stupidity is breeding at an extreme rate thanks to our great healthcare. We've been through this many times, but stupid people have more kids. I personally think that's a shame, but people structure their lives based on different values. Most smart people have better jobs and dedicate their time toward it rather than a large family. I wish it wasn't that way but oh well. Another way of looking at it is just that stupid people have no other options. They aren't going to be busy with that great job and spending money. I'm pushing this to the extreme, but my point is that there are tons of stupid people out there and it's not hard for me to believe that some people just "don't get it".

Also, we all know that cigarettes are bad for you and have nasty toxins in them, but why? It's of course because the tobacco companies add them as additives. There is nicotine and tar, and all that good stuff. Add to the list Arsenic, Cyanide, and Plutonium 220 and you've got a better picture though. Why is this legal? Why is pot illegal? Which one is worse? It's debatable, but what's not debatable is that both of these substances are bad for you and those that surround you. I just don't get it. What I wonder is whether tobacco was better 300 years ago before all the extra junk and filters were added.


<font color=red>Yeah, I took a crap on your lawn. Whatcha gonna do about it?</font color=red>

Look, I'm, not condoning public smoking. I'm just bringing up the side of the story that no one wants to hear. We seem to get a kick out of righteous outrage, but the simple fact is, no one forces people to smoke. They chose to of their own free will. I see countless adds for Hardees on TV, hear them on the radio, pass by billboards, read ads for them in magazines, etc. Do I eat there? No. Why? Because I don't want to. No amount of advertising or peer pressure will ever make me do something that I really don't want to do.

We think of tobacco as bad and campaign against that. Why?

The long-term abuse of tobacco has a <i>possability</i> of causing cancer. It isn't a guarantee that if you smoke like a chimney you'll get cancer. Yes, the more you smoke, the higher that chance is, but there is no absolute. It does however fill your lungs up with tar and crap that are assured to cause breathing disorders.

The long-term abuse of alcohol causes permanent damage to brain cells, and causes liver and kidney damage. If you abuse alcohol, all of these things are a garuntee.

The short-term abuse of tobacco causes stomach discomfort, but has no other side effects other than the standard beneficial effects of tobacco, which is that it lowers the heart rate and causes relaxation.

The short-term abuse of alcohol causes disorientation, inhibits judgement, slows down reflexes, often increases hostility, can cause stomach discomfort, and can cause loss of memory.

Extreme short-term abuse of tobacco causes sickness.

Extreme short-term abuse of alcohol causes death.

Alcohol advertisements are more common than tobacco advertisements. More money is put into alcohol advertisement than tobacco.

Alcohol is available in more places than tobacco is.

Alcohol is more socially acceptable than tobacco is.

Alcohol claims more damage and death to innocent bystanders than tobacco does.

The alcohol industry makes more money than the tobacco industry, and has far more businesses involved in it.

Tobacco has warning labels on it's packages. Alcohol doesn't.

Both tobacco and alcohol are very addictive.

Let's face it. If there's ANY truely evil product out there it isn't tobacco. It's alcohol. Yet were are the crusades against the evil alcohol companies? Why aren't alcohol companies accused of targetting children? Why is it that picking up a carton of cigarettes causes moral outrage in some people, but picking up a pack of beer brings people happy thoughts?

If you all want to crusade against something, pick a decent target. That's all that I'm saying. Personally, I'd like to see alcohol, tobacco, AND caffiene all used responsibly, or totally illegal. So I completely agree with you how sick and sad the tobacco industry is. But if you're going to have moral ourtage over something, at least pick something truely monsterous. Tobacco isn't nearly as bad as alcohol is.

And FatBurger, you obviously have problems paying attention and focusing. I didn't JUST say 'in the privacy of their own home'. I added considerably more to that. Think before you speak.

- Fuzzy logic? There's so much dust in there that the whole damn computer is fuzzy!

I used to smoke a cigerette about once a day when I was in the military. I'd go out with friends on a smoke break and bum a smoke. I'd even sometimes buy a pack of those more expensive clove cigs for a good friend because he's always let me bum one of his. It was a daily ritual.

Yet when I left the miltary (leaving those friends behind) I was able to stop smoking without any trouble whatsoever. I quit because my wife doesn't like smoking, so I didn't want to smoke around the house since it would annoy her.

No addiction. No difficulty quitting. Just good old-fashioned relaxation with friends.

You talk about the psychological addiction of alcohol and yet don't talk about it in cigarettes. I happen to think in most cases it's the psychological addiction that keeps people smoking. They know that they feel calmer when they smoke. So they keep depending on that to calm them when they're stressed, not because they're chemically addicted.

As for caffiene, I bring it up because caffiene is a lot more dangerous than people think. It raises the heart rate and blood pressure. It increases stress. These all factor in to increasing the chances of heart damage and stress disorders.

But no one thinks about that. They just depend on their coffee to wake them up in the morning. They suck down their soda and coffee all day long. Then they drive home stressed and wonder why they can't unwind from their day at work.

And boy is caffiene chemically addictive. Just go two days without it and look at the headache you get. That's why so many headache pills put a small dose of caffiene in them as well as the asperin or ibuprofen in them.

Believe me, I've learned the dangers of caffiene first hand. It's a little-known danger that is often overlooked by doctors. Cutting caffiene out of my life has made a tremendous improvement in my health and my emotional well-being.

- Fuzzy logic? There's so much dust in there that the whole damn computer is fuzzy!

I've read all of all three of your posts (not an easy task )
I wasn't posting as a direct rebuttal to anybody's posts, including yours. I was just raising points that I've heard discussed before (by me and others).

You raise a very good argument about alcohol vs. tobacco. It's amazing more people don't think about that.

And BTW, I'm amazed that this whole conversation has gone on without any immature posts or people straight out arguing and/or flaming.



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Apple? Macintosh? What are these strange words you speak?

It's 4:50 in the morning now and I can't sleep. I've had 1 pepsi, 3 mug rootbeers, 2 other rootbeers, and 2 dr peppers. I am running up and down the walls caffiene buzzing like a madman. I've also had a lot of suger from candy and cookies. It won't wear off for a while either....

If you want to see how caffiene affects the body, substitute decaff coffee in an office environment for a couple of weeks. Then switch back to strong caffenated coffee. You'll see the psychological as well as the physical affects...

<font color=red>Yeah, I took a crap on your lawn. Whatcha gonna do about it?</font color=red><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by dhlucke on 06/30/01 04:56 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

Lucky you!

I can drink a big full bottle of coke or pepsi and i won´t lose my sleep!

Why should you learn from your mistakes?
Learn from other´s! It´s cheaper and less painfull! :-D

I used to down so much 'fiene on a regular basis that I'd use coffee to help put me to sleep. It got to the point where caffiene wouldn't have any impact whatsoever on my sleeping habbits. It was that, and the fact that I was having heart problems, that got me to stop drinking it. Heh heh.

-<font color=white>Honor</font color=white> before <font color=purple>duty</font color=purple>. <font color=purple>Duty</font color=purple> before <font color=red>heart</font color=red>.

Oh, so they're pretty much like us Americans then...

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My Athlon can beat your Ferrari off the line.

Yeah, but I'm an American who's lived on three different continents, so I have a different perspective than most.

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My Athlon can beat your Ferrari off the line.

I have to agree with you, the French are in a league all their own. It would take great effort for any country to meet even the minimum requirements to compare to the French.

It's strange, for as many times as that country has been conquered and walked all over throughout history, it still manages to produce some of the most (*) egotistic arrogant bungholes the world has ever known. Every time I have to work with the empoyees from the French branch of my company I cringe.

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Legal Disclaimer Footnotes:
(*) = Not that ALL French people are like this. (After all, not everyone's blood-line can be 100% pure French.)

-<font color=white>Honor</font color=white> before <font color=purple>duty</font color=purple>. <font color=purple>Duty</font color=purple> before <font color=red>heart</font color=red>.

You mean he is a bone smoker?

Me so horny, me love you long time!