Nforce 4

Though this is now a mobo article, but still has graphics relations, so posting here. [H], firingsqaud, Anadtech etc. (NOT THG, these guys are bcoming loosers) have done a editorials on the Nforce 4 which somehow looks really cool with all those features inbuilt with those 3GB/sec SATA and 5x Hyper Transport, and of course the upcoming SLI technology.
<A HREF="http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=Njc3" target="_new">http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=Njc3</A>
<A HREF="http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_nforce4_preview/" target="_new">http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_nforce4_preview/</A>
<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2248&p=7" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2248&p=7</A>

I am pleaing to all homies in this forum to buy me one. :wink:

:tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by priyajeet on 10/19/04 06:37 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
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More about nforce
  1. BTW I add athlon Fx 55 to that plea list.

    :tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue:
  2. And a mail-order wife.

    ________________
    <b>Radeon <font color=red>9700 PRO</b></font color=red> <i>(o/c 332/345)</i>
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    <b>3dMark03: <font color=red>5,354</b>
  3. Me want now.

    Click <font color=blue><A HREF="http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/you.html" target="_new">HERE</A></font color=blue> if you real<b>l</b>y are an <font color=red>idiot</font color=red>.
  4. No Soundstorm. AC97 SUX!

    No good for me, gonna get rid of the Audigy when I sell current gaming rig or turn it into a media-pc.

    No actual SLI tests, interesting looking board they show, but definitely NOT graphics related until those boards appear/test.


    - You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil:
  5. u dont like the audigy ?

    :tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue:
  6. I like Audigy, works for me, but all the nV fans were promising Soundstorm. Kinney was one of the biggest proponents, and really it doesn't sell a MOBO for me, but all the nV fans were pumping them up around here.

    No more soundstorm onboard, well then they better start their add-in card development, if that'll ever happen. First maker to a PCIe card with quality features I want (Great quality, high SN ratio, 7.1 [prefer 7.2], DTS, DVD-AUDIO for example) wins.

    But without all the bells and whistles I'd need more to decide to forgoe a few features offered by others.

    Not even any onboard video solution unlike the ATI and VIA solutions. The nF4 better outperform all other comers or else it's lack of features will be glaring. Those who need built-in firewalls don't buy top-end boards. I have a hardware firewall and router plus software firewall + anti-virus, what does that feature matter to me?

    Just like AC97. sux, no use.


    - You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil:
  7. In order for me to do my next upgrade..
    I want Sli, PCIx and Gig Ethernet Standard.
    I want 4 Ram Slots. I want it to still keep it's AGP slot of course.
    I want it to have the ability to actually upgrade the CPU. :D
    SATA Raid of course. Set up too allow great cooling.
    I also need it to be pretty for my window :D.

    And for CPU upgrade i don't mean two PR ratings.. i mean a GHz.

    And this is a MOBO question.. i haven't been reading too much lately but is AMD going the DDR2 route yet? Anything looking promising from that area?
    I'd actually consider doing a DDR1 upgrade before a 2.. just becuase i wouldn't need new memory.


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    46,510 , movin on up. 48k new goal. Maybe not.. :/<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Johanthegnarler on 10/19/04 09:24 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
  8. You will not see SLI and AGP IMO.

    VIA has PCIe-16x + AGP (GEAR), but I don't think you'll see 2PCIe graphics slots and an AGP on top of that, just for real estate concerns.

    DDR2 for AMD64 for desktops isn't until next year, server support on the 940 is suposed to be out there. AMD seems to be sitting on the sidelines. There's alot of speculation of what will be done to support it for AMD, the two main solutions right now are either changing pin count (again!) or creating a bridge, which would defeat alot of the integrated memory controller advanatages IMO.

    The thing is that supposedly the AMD64s are VERY latency sensitive, whereas the Intels are speed sensitive, and thus having high speed high latency memory for the AMD64s may not be better than GOOD DDR1, and the situation would only get worse if you had a bridge solution IMO. But then again we haven't seen anything 'official' yet.

    And to keep this graphics related, what you don't want integrated graphics to help trouble-shoot buggy SLI/XGI/HyperMEMORY drivers? :lol:


    - You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil:
  9. funny, i never paid attention to soundstorm. Reading abt it now, its kinda a big deal - making sound for movies and stuff. Will be cool to have pro snd in a system, though it will have tremendous competion with creative considering creative has started getting all those certifications - THX etc. Luv to have these tech sounds - whats next ? maybe skywalker sound.

    :tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by priyajeet on 10/19/04 10:35 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
  10. The P4 used to be quite latency and memory bandwidth sensitive. The speed increase has been stagnant though, so the performance overall doesn't really get much better nowadays through increasing it.

    The Athlon 64 has also become latency sensitive, though notice the change from 800MT to 1000MT HT wasn't THAT significant, despite a 25% increase in bandwidth.
    And forget cache, doubling it, in most cases, revealed not more than 5 to a maximum of 10% increase.

    I honestly don't know anymore what benefits these processors more. The P4 used to be known for getting more mileage with bandwidth increases, but it seems it's not THAT significant after all. No does the cache help that much, except the L3 one for the EE. No, what it needs is internal improvements, big time. And the A64 needs a longer pipeline for higher speeds. 2.6GHZ is nice, and so far the scaling has been very consistent. What it does need is even more speed, because of that consistency present.

    The worst thing about DDR2 and what makes it pointless for now IMO, is the latency. Notice the recent P4 tests. DDR2 actually makes higher clocked P4s perform like lower clocked DDR versions with less bandwidth! Geez, I don't even know WHY they tout and try to sell that memory technology yet. :eek:

    --
    <font color=blue>Ede</font color=blue>
  11. Hmm, very slight performance increase with a minor decrease in a few games.
    I dunno if the package is overall THAT worth it, it will depend on the Ultra's price.
    Right now though, some VIA boards come with serious features for barely 140$ CDN. That's too good to pass up.

    --
    <font color=blue>Ede</font color=blue>
  12. In case of nForce vs. VIA, if performance and price is equal or nForce is slightly more expensive, then I would still recommend nVidia over VIA because of better drivers. VIA drivers are pathetic compared to nForce driver package.

    There is cheaper nForce3 250 boards, too (Chaintech VNF3-250 for example).

    I don't know why nVidia didn't integrate SoundStorm with nForce4. Now there's no reason to get nForce4 over nForce3 250, unless you need PCI-Ex.

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  13. Quote:
    [H], firingsqaud, Anadtech etc. (NOT THG, these guys are bcoming loosers) have done a editorials on the Nforce 4

    I told the same thing right after Omid's "Game Over" article. Lot of people supported Omid's stance, but now it seems that they like to read "preview" type articles just like me.


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  14. Quote:
    No Soundstorm. AC97 SUX!

    I don't see the problem... I got two tiny speakers on my desk and I'm really happy with the sound they produce. If a motherboard has -any- sound support, great! You're buying a motherboard, not a sound card. Seriously, how many people -need- the latest audio features? I'd rather pay 20$ less because they left out SoundStorm, and let the sound professionals buy a professional sound card.

    Just my view...
  15. Didn't this review site just go on a big rant saying they won't put up with Nvidia's paper launches that leaves reviewers tiny amounts of time to test? Didn't they say in the N4 review that they had little time to test this and they are unsure of how fast it will come to market?

    I'm thinking THG might be part of the Kerry campaign...

    I'm just your average habitual smiler =D
  16. y u ask ?
    nope, WI MAdison

    :tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue:
  17. Quoted from THG's NF4 review:

    <i>"The rush that accompanied the chipset launch is symptomatic of the entire industry these days: everybody is acrimoniously fighting to push new products to the market, whether they can be delivered or not. One of the few positive exceptions is AMD, but most others do not leave the best impression on customers -including NVIDIA."</i>

    No comments. Seems that this is THG's very first chipset review.


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  18. look at <A HREF="http://www.firingsquad.com/media/article_image.asp?fs_article_id=1565&pic_id=03" target="_new">this</A> bitch.

    :tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue:
  19. firingsquad -

    "Apparently motherboard manufacturers either had a hard time educating users on the benefits of SoundStorm, or their users just weren’t interested in the features SoundStorm provides, one of which was real-time Dolby Digital encoding, a feature no other consumer-level audio product provides."

    And <A HREF="http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_nforce4_preview/page5.asp" target="_new">here</A> are their SLI benchies. Notice Nforce 4 just supports 20 lanes of PCIe, while Intel will go all the way upto 32, i think.

    :tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by priyajeet on 10/20/04 11:51 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
  20. The less cards in my system, the greater the airflow and the more options for MOBO size. Also each PCI card draws power and is less effificient than an 'equivalent' onboard solution. The performance impact of the old Soundstorm was not too bad (very close to Audigy, even ahead in about 10% of benchies), and was supposed to be improved.
    The hoopla over the 'new' Soundstorm was impressive, however if it's not coming, well Intel new audio solution is nice, but somewhat restricted to Intel boards, and so we're left with PCI/PCIe solutions. I'm not about to buy another PCI solution, and really I was hoping to be able to sell my Audigy as part of my current rig. At least my current board has cheesy 5.1 onboard already so if I sell it/ give it away, then I can promotoe that. But if I make it a media PC, then I need something worthy to replace it.

    As for it being the 'LATEST' audio features, well it's not, but considering the new Intel solution, then it's the LEAST they could do IMO.

    If it was audio professionals then they would buy cards from RME or the like. Gamers still need good audio solutions that are better than AC97. I use headphones and the crap sound quality is the reason I spent more for an add-in card. I was just hoping I could have more airflow and make more room for more USB/FireWire PCI plates (Since I will have 3 USB2.0 plates [with 2-4 sockets each] and a firewire plate and firewire card) which block PCI slots already. Most of these new boards come with just 2 or 3 PCI slots, so space is at a premium.

    Why go add-in if there is quality onboard features, do you complain about onboard ethernet? I have dozens of PCI ethernet cards at home (and hundreds at work), yet, I prefer onboard everytime, even if some of the onboard solutions aren't 'true' Gigabit, etc.

    Anyways, that's just my personal style with things like this, good airflow, low power draw, good quality, basically an elegant solution. While I agree no one should be forced to pay for it, but why not do what they do with onboard video, and make it the NF4 PRO ULTRA SLI RED HOT MAGMA Edition, where I pay $27 more to cover your not paying $20 extra?

    It'll cost me alot more for an add-in solution of any quality. Only PCIe with the features I mentioned above would be a better alternative to me right now.


    - You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil:
  21. Quote:
    And here are their SLI benchies.

    Those aren't benchmarks, that's nV PR. I mean actual in someone's hands, no partial precision, no 'special drivers' benchmarks. Would anyone trust ATI's Supa-Doopa R480 results if they said it gets 10,000 in 3Dmk05? Of course not, so why is SLI any different, probably because we've seen working mock-ups, but no real benchmarks, and therefore people will believe anything.

    Quote:
    Notice Nforce 4 just supports 20 lanes of PCIe, while Intel will go all the way upto 32, i think.

    Yeah [H] mention that with one card the single slot will be at 16X and with two BOTH will be at 8X, while Intels solution on the Tumwater has one running at 16X and the other at 8X. This may only impact Workstation solutions, but it would be interesting to look at from a Quadro SLI + ProApp stand point. I think for most of us here it will have little impact at all.

    I have read that it was the licensing fee from Dolby that wasn't worth the money. And while it's only a small impact, it's one of those "don't tell me to wait for feature X when you don't even offer it after all the hoopla!" situatuions.

    As for the rest,t he performance figures as noted by [H] are not impressive, and as such the things that would interest me in the NF4 over VIA, SIS and ATI's solutions are slowly being dropped one by one. The Raid support is interesting, but we'll have to see it's impact too before deciding.

    SLI is not unique to the NF4 so right now there's nothing that makes it stand out against all others, so it'll probably come down to price/performance, or in the Case of VIA and ATI's onboard video and enhanced audio, those features sets are far more interesting than built in firewall that consumes CPU cycles (even if it is less than the NF3 version).

    Right now VIA's my top contender, despite Spitfire and Crashman's obvious misgivings (which I respect, but does not reflect my experiences with VIA). Gigabyte and VIA are my current solution, work well, and if they are the same, unlike Spitfire, I'd pick VIA over nV.


    - You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil:
  22. Looks like I'm not the only one;

    <A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=19177" target="_new">http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=19177</A>


    - You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil:
  23. funny, NVidiots luv soundstorm, and look at the quote from firingsuad abt nobody caring !

    :tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue:
  24. I just got a 3 piece soundset from yamaha, which does surprisingly well with a soundblaster live 5.1.

    but I have to agree with grape's assessment of the airflow. the usage of power is also something I prefer(I feel the same way about the heat and power of my graphics card)

    so, with the reading just provided to me, it's via all the way unless things change. 6600GT in the future for me when I build a new system, and a second in SLI solution instead of buying a power hungry heat-producing solution.

    but we'll have to see, that's just my thought of the moment, time will tell

    I prefer to buy my products after they've been out a few months, don't have to pay the extra premium(which I don't have to begin with), they've been tested by the enthusiasts already(many thanks), and the drivers have been improved and tested.

    well, that's just my 1 1/2 cents worth--which is all I got at the moment anyway
  25. Hah. I pretty much figured there would be no agp support with a SLI board. But i'm definately wishing.

    I would really like to update to a AMD64 solution but where i'm at as of now isn't really worth it. I've used 3 machines i've built for others now and damnnnn it's so much nicer. Sadly I can actually see how much smoother the 3d graphics are with AMD64 chips. Well... in comparison to my 2500@3200 barton.

    I really hope DDR1 can stay somewhat mainstream, but we know intels influence on the market. This complete hardware change every year is getting bad. There's no such thing as upgrading really anymore. But then again.. AMD somewhat made DDR1 mainstream first while intel was going RDRAM.

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    46,510 , movin on up. 48k new goal. Maybe not.. :/
  26. I'm curious about something, as I had just realized it. If SLI is nVidia's offering, what exactly is VIA offering with the Dual PCIe claim? Like, how did they go about that technology?

    Quote:
    This may only impact Workstation solutions, but it would be interesting to look at from a Quadro SLI + ProApp stand point. I think for most of us here it will have little impact at all.

    Actually why would it help? If both cards will be giving out their maximum and HAVE to be synchronized, there isn't any way one can go further than the other if both run at max, and if not, then synchronizing so one can give out more once both have finished their job wouldn't work either, to my knowledge.
    Quote:
    As for the rest,t he performance figures as noted by [H] are not impressive, and as such the things that would interest me in the NF4 over VIA, SIS and ATI's solutions are slowly being dropped one by one. The Raid support is interesting, but we'll have to see it's impact too before deciding.

    Agreed. Performance is more disappointing than anything. It is overall weaker than the VIA, from what I've seen. And when it DOES do better, it's by a very small margin. Really, where did the old dual channel optimizations go nVidia? Why did you emphacize so much on firewall processor usage optimizations instead of making the chipset itself a better alternative to the NF3?
    I like nForce, honestly, it's a great concept and is attractive, but the fact is, nForce 2 was what defined the serie. It had major performance to bring. It WAS the reason behind the sudden competition from AMD with the launch of the AthlonXP 2800+. (it never was about the dual channel itself, but the optimization enabled using it, kinda like the extra 8 GPRs in AMD64 which don't necessarily relate to 64-bit) And the features were rich too. NF3 advanced that, but really, the VIA solution has been immensely competitive, and overall, the features on that chipset were also just as competitive, save for the audio everyone is touting.

    Quote:
    Right now VIA's my top contender, despite Spitfire and Crashman's obvious misgivings (which I respect, but does not reflect my experiences with VIA). Gigabyte and VIA are my current solution, work well, and if they are the same, unlike Spitfire, I'd pick VIA over nV.

    My sentiments exactly. I don't see the fuss about VIA anymore.
    I would actually ask the anti-VIA people here: have you actually found VIA to recently have been very buggy or as bad as during the KT133 days? In fact, have we even heard that many stability complaints against the KT800PRO?

    --
    <font color=blue>Ede</font color=blue>
  27. SLI doesn't appear to be just for nV mobos (wise not to they would just limit their options), SLI is for selling cards more than MOBOs IMO. And I'm not sure how much proprietary tweaking is required for SLI on a mobo, perhaps it just needs two fully functioning PCIe graphics slots (even if 8x),

    SLI with Quadros would help with the very large textures, and it's the only place I would expect to see differences now. Many of these apps are also geared for scalability even to the extent of large arrays. Really if we would see significant difference in 8X SLI versus 16x SLI I would expect it there if anywhere.

    But that;s really a guess right now, there's been no tests so far to show anything, let alone limitations, bottlenecks or differences. Personally I still think Tetris is the one thing that will push this solution of the edge. Spinning that _|_ shaped piecde is gonna drive that thing nuts! :wink:


    - You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil:
  28. One of my friend's has a KT333, it works OK. Recently one of my friends bought a KM266 mobo, and it's terrible. I'm not talking about perormance or IGP performance. Not all 4-in-1 drivers work well, poor IDE performance, overall crappy responsiveness etc. etc.

    But all nForce(1) and nForce2 boards that me and my friends used, was great.


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  29. BTW, when you install VIA drivers, you have to Install 4-in-1, audio, lan, usb2.0 drivers seperately.

    nForce = all drivers in one unified package.

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  30. Interesting PICs/SPECs of IWILL's solution they have the CK8-04 (nF4) having 2 x 16xPCIe (also includes pics/spec of intel solution);

    <A HREF="http://www.iwill.net/sppage/2004_10/2004_10.htm" target="_new">http://www.iwill.net/sppage/2004_10/2004_10.htm</A>

    I think it's a typo based on the early info about the nF4 boards, but it would be interesting to see if there is a workstation class board that does have 2 x 16x support while the gamer boards only have 2 x 8x as that would somewhat indicate that there is a feeling that workstations will get more use from the higher throughput.

    I still think it's a Typo, and that it's two slots that accept 16x and likely they too run at 8x when used in SLI configuration.


    - You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil:
  31. Quote:
    SLI with Quadros would help with the very large textures, and it's the only place I would expect to see differences now. Many of these apps are also geared for scalability even to the extent of large arrays. Really if we would see significant difference in 8X SLI versus 16x SLI I would expect it there if anywhere.

    Oh that's what you meant. I thought you were saying at first that SLI where one slot is at 16X and the other 8X would make a big difference when Quadros are used. Was wondering how you could even get more in one slot than the other given the fact this is a synchronized rendering setup.

    Quote:
    perhaps it just needs two fully functioning PCIe graphics slots (even if 8x),

    Would kinda discredit the claim that nVidia spent years making SLI.

    --
    <font color=blue>Ede</font color=blue>
  32. I didn't ask you about old VIA chipsets, I said RECENTLY, in fact even mentioned the KT800PRO.

    That's why I dropped the past when speaking about the VIA now, if I wanted to buy from them. I asked to see who could prove me the VIA stigma remains in the new stuff.

    --
    <font color=blue>Ede</font color=blue>
  33. Quote:
    I still think it's a Typo, and that it's two slots that accept 16x and likely they too run at 8x when used in SLI configuration.

    I'm curious as to know what would be the purpose in dropping both slots' speeds to 8X, really?

    --
    <font color=blue>Ede</font color=blue>
  34. Quote:
    I'm curious as to know what would be the purpose in dropping both slots' speeds to 8X, really?

    Well there are limited number of PCIe lanes 20-24 usually in most MoBos/chicpsets, and twin 16s would saturate even hartier solutions. People have been saying that the nForce4 has 32 lanes, but that's a false assumption based on the 2 x 16x (leaving nothing for other 1X slots and southbridge?). The Nf4 is 20 + 2 like just about ever other one out there. They need to do the 2x8 to allow it to fit within that 20, with 16 for the SLI and 4x1 for other items.

    Here's a <A HREF="http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/chipsets/nvidia/ck804/nvidia_sli.gif" target="_new">PIC of the nV solution</A> which uses a bridge chip to switch between slots, and only the bridge chip gets the full 16X.

    Which is why I think the ad is a typo, but it would be interesting if they use a separate solution for workstations to maximize performance.


    - You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil:
  35. The amount of lanes though, that is up to the motherboard makers or the chipset makers' decision?

    It sounds like IWill's able to make their own amount there.

    --
    <font color=blue>Ede</font color=blue>
  36. Nvidia responds to soundstrom related mail
    <A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=19265" target="_new">http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=19265</A>

    :tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue:
  37. So basically he says: "It's not there, but we haven't permanently ditched it".

    They surely must be tweaking the design in preparation for a sound card launch.

    I suspect the days of such a great sound solution coming for free with the motherboard are long gone. :frown:

    ---
    Epox 8RDA+ V1.1 w/ Custom NB HS
    XP1700+ @200x11 (~2.2Ghz), 1.55 Vcore
    2x256Mb Corsair PC3200LL/1x512Mb Corsair XMS PC4000 2.5-3-3-7
    Sapphire 9800Pro (VGA Silencer Rev3) @400/730
  38. Quote:
    Those aren't benchmarks, that's nV PR. I mean actual in someone's hands, no partial precision, no 'special drivers' benchmarks. Would anyone trust ATI's Supa-Doopa R480 results if they said it gets 10,000 in 3Dmk05? Of course not, so why is SLI any different, probably because we've seen working mock-ups, but no real benchmarks, and therefore people will believe anything.

    NVIDIA's SLI can give you 32 pixel pipelines. ATI is limited to 16. That's not a matter of belief, it's a fact. It allows you to double the resolution and get the same performance as with one card. Staying at the same resolution doesn't really double performance, because most vertex processing work is done by both cards. That's more efficient than each doing half of the work and sending the results over the bus.

    In this perspective, I think their results with current beta-drivers are impressive. And I'm sure it's not just PR. They won't risk getting everybody excited and then dissapointing them with benchmarks done by other reviewers. On the contrary, I expect them to do even better once the SLI drivers mature...
  39. no its not 32. its 16 for each portion of the screen. i will only call it 32 if all the screen is 32. it wud be 32 if cards were running serially. Parallel doesnt signify doubling.

    :tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by priyajeet on 10/25/04 02:28 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
  40. Quote:
    NVIDIA's SLI can give you 32 pixel pipelines. ATI is limited to 16. That's not a matter of belief, it's a fact.


    That's not a FACT, that's FUD/BS, <A HREF="http://www.darkcrow.co.kr/News/News_Content.asp?board_idx=2657" target="_new">ATI can do XxX = 32 also</A> (and have been able to for LONGER than PCIe SLI engineering samples). But still it's not the same, as priyajeet pointed out above, it's theoretical pipes. Even if it were 'true 32', it still doesn't sanctify their PR, these are their tests not independant tests. So it remains PR. They didn't even trust the reviewers enough to invite them to run the tests with them.

    Quote:
    It allows you to double the resolution and get the same performance as with one card.

    Well when is it a doubling of resolution? I can't think of any current 'standard' resolutions that achieves doubling (the closest would be going from 1280x1024 to 1920x1440, even going from 1024x768 to 1280x1024 is undershooting and 1600x1200 is overshooting). This also assumes that you will get a near 100% increase by adding the extra card, and even nV doesn't expect that kind of increase regardless of whether it's vertex shader heavy or pixel shader heavy titles.

    Quote:
    And I'm sure it's not just PR.

    And I'm not. Why not allow others to play with their cards. Anyone taking these numbers at face value is naive.
    As firing squad says laments <i>"Unfortunately, we don’t have an nForce4 SLI motherboard to test with just yet</i>, but <b>we were given the following numbers by NVIDIA</b>:"

    I don't doubt they are <i>potentially</i> valid in some justified/sanitized/'playing by our rules' kind of way, but I'd prefer to get figures from someone who is considered objective (like FiringSquad), and that would exclude ATI, nVidia, XGI, etc. Heck, XGI is a perfect example of how the factual but limited PR-filtered numbers don't reflect reality; the Volari V8 DUO has MASSIVE fillrate potential which is confirmed by results in selected benchmarks, yet the cards suck in actual games. Awesomegra!

    Quote:
    They won't risk getting everybody excited and then dissapointing them with benchmarks done by other reviewers.

    Where have you been for the last year and a half? Both ATI and nV have paper launched stuff at each other, and you think that they are going to care about being exposed by reviewers? Hah! nV and it's launch partner not to long ago produced literature to try and say that the FX 5200 and 5500 were superior choices for gamers based on one benchmark. Sure sure, they wouldn't take an opportunity to spread FUD, yeah they're too noble for that. Ha, right!

    Quote:
    On the contrary, I expect them to do even better once the SLI drivers mature...

    Could be, however I won't take their word for it, I'll wait for someone who doesn't have a history of fudging their numbers for PR purposes.


    - You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil:
  41. Well there is also a limit based on what the chipset can handle. The basic nforce4 layout is 20 lanes according to <A HREF="http://www.nvidia.com/page/pg_20041015917263.html" target="_new">their Spec sheet</A>. Which really is no different than the competition (probably 20+2).

    Now that doesn't mean there couldn't be a workstation version that is different, but if it is based on the same chip, then it's 20 lane too.

    Tumwater seems to be the powerhouse here with 24 full PCIe lanes, which IIRC are divided up into 3 sets of 8. And which has 8 dedicated to each PCIe and then 8 used for peripherals be they PCIe or PCI/PCI-x (using a bridge).

    Still the Tumwater is not a viable solution for us, and the way it's lanes are controlled seems to give it little advanatage over the nF4 SLI whose major advantage may be that SLI bridge that does the task of splitting/joinging the information to/from the cards. And that advanatge may be significant especially if it saves even more CPU cycles.


    - You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil:
  42. Well, the only time I was amazed at nVidia's honesty in their PR benches was the 6600GT preview performance for DOOM III. The results were exactly on target if not slightly better. Didn't ever think their PR would live up to its claims.

    --
    <font color=blue>Ede</font color=blue>
  43. True, but then again, that was DOOM3.

    I just don't trust any of the companies. They have too much money riding on this to be 100% open about things. Not that they are always lying, but they will selectively pick and chose what shows them in the best light. "You might say, well Duh! We all do that to some extent!", it's simply wise to keep that in mind. I epxect the Stock GF6800U SLI combo to blow the stock X800XTPE-F'N'EH away, and even the OC'd cards to blow and OC'd Xetc away, but I'm still not simply going to accept nV's word for it. Why are they so eager to give us performance figures so early (which they kept so secret for the original NV40), yet so unwilling to give the reviewers a crack at testing the cards? It just sounds like they are trying to manipulate the news by selectively releasing the good news but making sure no one finds out the whole story. Even if it's something as small as their being a glitch in 1 aspect or game, it's obviously enough to keep control of the testing. It reminds me of war coverage, show all the good stuff, but don't you dare show anything that might not make us look good.

    Let's also say that the track record of FUD for this generation (from all sides including XGI), and even the last to a great extent, isn't something that engenders respect of company-sponsored info.


    - You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil:
  44. Good grief Ape, I really WASN'T telling you otherwise, I was agreeing but mentioning a side note of something rather surprising by nVidia!

    :eek:

    I feel sad now, good bye, I'll understand if you don't want me! No no, don't cry!

    :lol:

    --
    <font color=blue>Ede</font color=blue>
  45. Funny re-reading that it seems a lot edgier after your comments. My original intent was saying, Damn Right, and $crew 'em all!

    It just really bothers me from both sides all this paper.

    Funny thing is most mfrs are hitting the numbers THEY give us, it's the ones we don't know about that disapoint us. And really that goes for nV, ATI, AMD, Intel, Creative, etc.


    - You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil:
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