need replacement Tempest IC

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Hi, all

I'm just breaking into my Tempest project and my vector generator board
(main PCB) is missing an IC at location P-7. According to the manual
this part is identified as type: 74LS139. Could anyone reccomend a
source for replacement? Or possibly an exchangeable IC that performs
the same function(s) if this piece is rare--which I doubt it is.

Thanks for any info

Jeff
 
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jeff,

It's a run of the mill logic chip, plain n simple. Just go type it
into your favorite electronics suppliers search form.

- Matt
 
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Thanks Matt, Much Appreciation!

what a relief :)

Jeff
 
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Thanks for the offer Roy, I was fortunate enough to source one for .49,
and I've placed an order over the phone already. Too bad I dropped
four bucks on the shipping but I am anxious to get it in there.

I do have some questions concerning replacement capacitors. Should it
be very difficult to source replacements for 1uf 50V (caps 57, 58, 59)
and 100 uf 25V (caps 60, 62). Some were badly dried out, and one of
them had actually leaked and begun to corrode its negative connector
slightly. I figure due to their age, they probably all need to be
replaced, so I've snipped them all off the board.
Jeff
 
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Must be serendipity. Jameco was the distributor I bought the IC from.
You're right though, should have bundled the CAPS with it. Live and
learn.

Jeff
 
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If you have any trouble getting one locally I can send you one.

LMK if needed.

-roy-

"VectorGen" <istolewhitesands@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1118181580.519706.175520@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks Matt, Much Appreciation!
>
> what a relief :)
>
> Jeff
>
 
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Everything should be available from Jameco (www.jameco.com). Should have
ordered them with the chip - save on shipping.

http://tinyurl.com/8cyye
http://tinyurl.com/7zjea

Note it is ok to use higher voltage caps as long as they have the same uF.

-roy-


"VectorGen" <istolewhitesands@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1118185098.681827.63770@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks for the offer Roy, I was fortunate enough to source one for .49,
> and I've placed an order over the phone already. Too bad I dropped
> four bucks on the shipping but I am anxious to get it in there.
>
> I do have some questions concerning replacement capacitors. Should it
> be very difficult to source replacements for 1uf 50V (caps 57, 58, 59)
> and 100 uf 25V (caps 60, 62). Some were badly dried out, and one of
> them had actually leaked and begun to corrode its negative connector
> slightly. I figure due to their age, they probably all need to be
> replaced, so I've snipped them all off the board.
> Jeff
>
 
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Roy,
I was curious about your post. I want to be clear before I proceed and
make a silly mistake or something. You state that its ok to use caps
with a higher voltage, as long as they have the same micro-farad
rating.

I was under the impression the voltages had to be equal, and the
microfarads could be the same *or higher* rating.


? curious

Jeff
 
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No the voltage can be higher.

Thomas

"VectorGen" <istolewhitesands@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1118213471.263276.122320@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Roy,
> I was curious about your post. I want to be clear before I proceed and
> make a silly mistake or something. You state that its ok to use caps
> with a higher voltage, as long as they have the same micro-farad
> rating.
>
> I was under the impression the voltages had to be equal, and the
> microfarads could be the same *or higher* rating.
>
>
> ? curious
>
> Jeff
>
 
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The farad value indicates the amount of capacitance, or storage, of the
capacitor. This is what is critical to the circuit. The voltage rating is
the *maximum* voltage that can be passed through the cap before it pops.

-roy-


"VectorGen" <istolewhitesands@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1118213471.263276.122320@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Roy,
> I was curious about your post. I want to be clear before I proceed and
> make a silly mistake or something. You state that its ok to use caps
> with a higher voltage, as long as they have the same micro-farad
> rating.
>
> I was under the impression the voltages had to be equal, and the
> microfarads could be the same *or higher* rating.
>
>
> ? curious
>
> Jeff
>
 
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Thanks again, gentlemen for your valuable expertise :)

Jeff
 
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Jeff,

I wrote this up a week ago on another post regarding a vector monitor
cap kit. Figured I would paste it here. The commentary is centered
around a vector monitor, but applies to just about any circuit.

"Do not install way overrated capacitors as far as working voltage is
concerned. Not only is it pointless and not very cost efficient but you

will actually degrade performance of the circuit if you go too high.
One step up is a good rule of thumb if you simply must do it.


I believe most people do this thinking they will gain some sort of
logevity by running overkill on the cap voltages, Let me be very clear
when I say this is a true deal, but a very misleading theory. By going
way overkill on the working voltage you lower the capicitors working
efficiency in the circuit. Therefor you do gain in longevity because
the biggest cap killer will be heat fluctuation overt time (things
start to vent, rubber starts to crack, it dries up). BY going way
overkill you reduce the capacitors workload by reducing it's efficiency

in the circuit; if your following. Thus they will last longer. But is
this correct for your circuit topology? Not really.


To reduce heat wear properly, simply choose a cap with a higher temp
rating. You will have several to shoose from as I'm sure you know. Get
85 Degree centigrade or higher if available and if you must go ONE step

higher on working voltage and not a penny higher.


Onto farad ratings. My rules:


1: If the cap is being used in PARALELL with a POWER SUPPLY, the higher

the rating the better. HOWEVER I try and go no further then doubling as

the cap has become a load when in charge state and going too high can
reduce the power supply performance and any regulation/recovery
circuitry can be affected. However by going as high as doubling on the
farad rating you achieve greater line ripple rejection and that NEVER
hurts.


2: When a capacitor is in PARALELL in a circuit OTHER THEN A POWER
SUPPLY it is a good idea to not deviate from its value without having a

good knowledge of the topology of the design. For example in a
regulation system, and amplifier section, or a switching power supply
utilizing a transformer (Ie, your deflection board (amp) your HV unit
(Switching PS using a trans.) and regulation system (Your LV section on

the deflection boards) --- Deviating from these values in farads or
working voltage can cause anything from circuit performance you can
only see with a scope all the way down to catastrophic failure of the
circuit over time or failure to operate entirely. Capacitors used in
this fashion are generally parts of a frequency related circuit. By
altering them you alter the operation of the entire circuit and the
frequency it was designed to operate at. In your monitor it can cause
something as simple as reduced or increased modulation in the amplifier

section of the deflection board, total failure, unwanted oscillation,
etc. In the HV section changing the pulse rate to the flyback windings
can cause total failure of the part or function. Ie. if you are pulsing

the flyback @ X freq and getting 12 kv, then decide to triple a cap
rating that can alter the freq to Y can change the flyback output to
1/3 the current and 3 times the voltage. The number are not exact and
for example purposes ONLY to show vague example only!


3: Capacitors used in series - same deal as #2


This concludes my views on cap upgrades, I hope someone finds it of
use. Best bet is to stick to design ratings unless you are dealing with

paralell PS caps. Overall it is good to get the lowest ESR ratings and
highest temp. ratings for the best performance and longest life of a
cap in a circuit.


Another misconception I will address is the usage of the higher rated
transistors being installed as an "upgrade" for these monitors. They
are of a MUCH higher voltage supply rating. How this performs some
significant longevity gain in a LOW impeadence amplifier design stifles

me. For a true upgrade install a transistor with similar or higher
voltage ratings, but looks for a significant increase in the current
ratins as well. In a low impeadence amplifier with a low voltage supply

you will benifit far more in stability, temp coefficients and longevity

this way. Those trannies still get hot even though they have IIRC three

times the voltage ratings because they are being used in a low supply
low impeadence modified class a/b amplifier design. Nice choice, wrong
choice. Wait until I get bored and wire up my car amplifier to run a
6100 deflection system. I'll be sure and post pics. Thats all the
deflection system is afterall; a stereo amplifier with a regulated
power supply. The spot kill circuitry is nothing more then the same
archaic protection you see is old amplifiers with the exception being
the incorporation of a "idiot light". Imaging if the creators of
aftermarket deflection boards were intelligent?They now have low
impeadence, 100wpch SINGLE class D amplifier solutions. So a small (how

does 4" by 4" strike you?) PCB with a few small compoenets could take
the place of the WG6100 deflection boards and drive the whole 9 yards
with a increase in efficiency of over 30% and 30% LESS BTU's? How about

a third the cost to manufacture and sell? How about I accuse all of
them of living in the dark and cashing in on a inferior, barely
redesigned product that is way overbloated and way over costly? Sad but

true.


Onto the rest of the stuff. Just replace it with the manufacture
suggested parts and don't go and change any resistor values in any
section unless you know what you are ultimatly doing and you will
increase/decrease overall gain of the circuit if you do the wrong
thing. "


Hope that helps

- Matt
 
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Thanks Matt,
I have cut and pasted it into my "learning archive". Much respect!

Jeff
 
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I need some more advice on Tempest. I have disconnected the auxillary
PCB and snapped off the old crusty caps and re-seated the socketed
chips, etc. I'm wondering about the red "loom" that connects the two
boards. I've dis-connected it and unseated the white 22 gauge wires
for cleaning (the housing and wires were filthy) and now I'm curious as
to how to re-seat the wires. I know they line up in an opposing
fashion, slot 1 to slot 24 on the other connector. What I need is a
technique to "seat" the wires in the connector. What's the best method
to rebuild this rig? Should i get new "soft" wire? I can't seem to
get the teeth to "bite" and marry to the wire... Any advice is
appreciated ;)
 
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Wait a sec, all he might need is this:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?O41E24D3B

I've never had any issues with reusing IDC connectors (YMMV). But if
you do end up buying new ones make sure you look at the data sheet VERY
carefully and ensure that the hole size and spacing is the same as the
ones you're replacing.

- Craig
 
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Well shoot, that link didn't work. What you want is called a "Manual
Insertion Hand Tool (T-Tool)". If you search for it on Molex you'll
find it. Other companies have it as well, like AMP/Tyco and maybe
Samtec I think.

- Craig
 
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>snapped off the old crusty caps

Say, what!? You did replace them, right?

>I've dis-connected it and unseated the white 22 gauge wires
> for cleaning (the housing and wires were filthy) and now I'm curious as
> to how to re-seat the wires.

Umm, I wouldn't have recommended that. There are two types
of connectors that were used for that interboard harness. The
first is an insulation-displacement connector (IDC) and the other
is a crimp-pin connector. I'm hoping for your sake that yours
is the crimp style. You might (depending on how you removed
them) be able to bend the locking tab on each pin back into
position, but if you forced them out then you've probably bent
them back on themselves and/or broken them off.

If you have the IDC type connector (which it sounds like you do have,
now that I've re-read your post a couple of times), you might as well
throw the harness away now. The IDC connector is a one-time use
device, and it requires a special tool that costs about $150 to insert
the wires properly. People try and re-insert the wires with a screwdriver
sometimes, but it works poorly.

If you (or anyone else) needs, we can make replacement interboard
harnesses for Tempest, Battlezone, Red Baron, etc. since we have
the right IDC tools, housings, and so forth...

Alex
----
ayeckley@elektronforge.com
www.elektronforge.com
 
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Alex Yeckley <ayeckley@elektronforge.com> wrote:
:>snapped off the old crusty caps
:
: Say, what!? You did replace them, right?
:
:>I've dis-connected it and unseated the white 22 gauge wires
:> for cleaning (the housing and wires were filthy) and now I'm curious as
:> to how to re-seat the wires.
:
: Umm, I wouldn't have recommended that. There are two types
: of connectors that were used for that interboard harness. The
: first is an insulation-displacement connector (IDC) and the other
: is a crimp-pin connector. I'm hoping for your sake that yours
: is the crimp style. You might (depending on how you removed
: them) be able to bend the locking tab on each pin back into
: position, but if you forced them out then you've probably bent
: them back on themselves and/or broken them off.

I made up a batch of replacement interconnects for both battlezone and tempest
a while back, if anyone's interested... I only ended up needing a couple, so
there's a pile of them on my coffee table :)

--
Mark Spaeth mspaeth@mtl.mit.edu
50 Vassar St., #38.265 mspaeth@mit.edu
Cambridge, MA 02139
(617) 452-2354 http://rgvac.978.org/~mspaeth
 
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What you want is called a "Manual Insertion Hand Tool (T-Tool)". If
you search for it on Molex you'll
find it. Other companies have it as well, like AMP/Tyco and maybe
Samtec I think. ******

It's definitely the IDC variety, the wires are insulated, forced into
"teeth" that cut through insulation and make contact with the metal
insides of the wire....appear to be about 22 gauge wires. I only
disconnected one side.

None of the slots are broken, i trimmed the wires with a klein tool,
then removed the leftover ends with a small pliers. The connector
looks perfectly O.K. I don't see how it wouldn't be re-usable, I just
wasn't sure how to seat the wires again without disfiguring anything.

Craig, you're saying a molex "T-tool" will do the trick? I'll look
into it, and if not I guess I'll take mark up on the purchase of a new
interconnect harness ;)

thanks guys
Jeff
 
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Alex,
Yes of course I'm replacing the capacitors on the boards. Some of them
showed leakage and more than one actually had some corrosion from the
electrolyte. I figured that couldn't be good and in the interest of
preserving what is otherwise a great looking board, my first project
was to remove those (likely) worn-out caps and order replacements.

The interconnect fiasco was probably unnecessary and haphazard but I'm
learning. If it looks like I can't find a solution I'll let you know
and order a new harness. Again, the red IDC connector looks flawless
and cleaned up nicely. The metal contacts and "teeth" are healthy,
unbent, and don't look damaged as far as I can tell. I was cautious,
some of the wires were very brittle, some insulation had worn off more
than one where it rubs the backside of some of the pins on the main
board when the two are attatched. I am concerned about a possible
short and wanted to replace them.

I'm an amateur (and I know it's obvious) so bear with me guys :)

Jeff
 

Erik

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Hey Jeff, I didn't see your posts here until just now. Elliot
Electronics should have what you need for caps and chips. It'll be
more expensive than jameco but you can walk in and buy it.

Erik
 
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Thanks Erik. They did have the small caps I needed, but they were
charging THIRTY bucks for the big blue, so I will probably score that
one from mr. Bob Roberts. I did order the LS logic chip from Jameco
though, just to establish my address with them and get a *huge* catalog
in the process :)

Jeff
 
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I trust your professional advice Alex, how much would you charge me for
one of your replacement harnesses which you mentioned earlier in the
thread?

Jeff
 
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>The metal contacts and "teeth" are healthy,
>unbent, and don't look damaged as far as I can tell.

My concern is because the slot yields some on the initial installation.
When you try to re-use one of those, it doesn't grip as tightly
the second time around. We're talking only thousanths of an
inch deformation, so it wouldn't really be visible. It may work, it
may not. The price of a replacement is so trivial (less than $1) that
there's no question, at least from my perspective...

Alex
----
ayeckley@elektronforge.com
www.elektronforge.com