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Netgear support experience

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Anonymous
April 8, 2004 3:20:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

I've had a Netgear DG834G since last November on a Pipex 1Mb ADSL
service. I have rung Netgear support only twice in all that time and
have only had to reset the router about 3 or 4 times.

I rang their support yesterday on a national rate 0870 number ( who
says it is expensive?).

The agent I spoke to may well have been in India but could have been
on Mars for all I care.

He was polite and helpful. I was on the phone for about 15 minutes.
Half of that time was taken up by him asking my details - email
address, router serial number etc. If I ever have to ring them again
I now have a customer number so that information won't need to be
supplied.

My query was about upgrading from 1.02 to 1.04 firmware. I was
advised to upgrade to 1.03 first which I did successfully. I'm now
running 1.04 and it is fine. My particular query about whether a
known issue in 1.03 had been resolved in 1.04 was answered in the
affirmative.

I'm glad I bought Netgear. It's quality kit, does the job I want with
no hassle and on those rare occasions when I have needed advice it has
been there promptly and cheaply. On both occasions I rang support, my
call was answered in less than 2 minutes of queuing time.

Well pleased and satisfied......(with Pipex as well....)


Filthy Rich
Music House
Anonymous
April 8, 2004 3:49:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

In article <elv870503id48d1nij8g8a9okj4et0te40@4ax.com>,
Filthy Rich <replacethedotwithadot@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
:I'm glad I bought Netgear. It's quality kit, does the job I want with
:no hassle

A ... friend of mine... had an... interesting... experience recently
with an enterprise-class device purchased from a company better known
for its consumer-level products. My friend did some elementary testing
of the device using a professional quality network testing device, and
soon noticed some alarming packet error counts. Knowing, though, that
the test being done was not rigerous, my friend spent pretty much the
next work week attempting to test the device thoroughly.
Unfortunately, my friend encountered so many problems and oddities in
both the CLI and GUI interfaces that my friend was unable (in 5 days
work) to configure the device to the point where it could be properly
stress tested.

As time is money and RMA deadlines are seldom flexible, my friend
attempted to return the device as being essentially unsuitable for its
advertised uses. My friend then discovered that the famous-brand
company apparently has a company policy of never accepting returns for
refunds -- only returns for replacement. Yes, that's right -- if the
device software is horribly organized and configurations disappear and
reappear depending on which obscure incantations you use, then as far
as the Famous Brand Manufacturer is concerned, it's just because your
particular device was mismanufactured, and it just needs to be
exchanged with another identical model with identical software for
everything to come out fine. :( 


By some strange coincidence, my friend now only visits Famous Brand
Manufacturer's web site "at times of special celebration."
--
Any sufficiently advanced bug is indistinguishable from a feature.
-- Rich Kulawiec
Anonymous
April 8, 2004 3:49:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

> A ... friend of mine... had an... interesting... experience recently
> with an enterprise-class device purchased from a company better known
> for its consumer-level products. My friend did some elementary testing
> of the device using a professional quality network testing device, and
> soon noticed some alarming packet error counts. Knowing, though, that
> the test being done was not rigerous, my friend spent pretty much the
> next work week attempting to test the device thoroughly.
> Unfortunately, my friend encountered so many problems and oddities in
> both the CLI and GUI interfaces that my friend was unable (in 5 days
> work) to configure the device to the point where it could be properly
> stress tested.
>
> As time is money and RMA deadlines are seldom flexible, my friend
> attempted to return the device as being essentially unsuitable for its
> advertised uses. My friend then discovered that the famous-brand
> company apparently has a company policy of never accepting returns for
> refunds -- only returns for replacement. Yes, that's right -- if the
> device software is horribly organized and configurations disappear and
> reappear depending on which obscure incantations you use, then as far
> as the Famous Brand Manufacturer is concerned, it's just because your
> particular device was mismanufactured, and it just needs to be
> exchanged with another identical model with identical software for
> everything to come out fine. :( 
>
>
> By some strange coincidence, my friend now only visits Famous Brand
> Manufacturer's web site "at times of special celebration."


Amusing story, please share with us what this "famous-brand" is or you have
wasted your time and my time.

Your friend could have returned this device (unspecified) to whoever
(unspecified) it was purchased from if not for money back then for credit
toward a different brand.

Did the device perform the functions that your friend purchased the device
for, or did your friend just discover that the device's software had flaws?

Did your friend work with CSR to try to successfully configure the device,
or did your friend attempt this by themselves without assistance?

Some people need to hire a professional to purchase the proper equipment and
setup a network. Is your friend an IT professional? (unspecified)
Related resources
Anonymous
April 8, 2004 7:25:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

roberson@ibd.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca (Walter Roberson) wrote in news:c52422$ndg$1
@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca:

> A ... friend of mine... had an... interesting... experience recently
> with an enterprise-class device purchased from a company better known
> for its consumer-level products.

What what company is this?

--
Lucas Tam (REMOVEnntp@rogers.com)
Please delete "REMOVE" from the e-mail address when replying.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/coolspot18/
Anonymous
April 8, 2004 12:47:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

In article <al1dc.3114$Vo.763@fed1read03>, scram <scram@anon.com> wrote:
:> A ... friend of mine... had an... interesting... experience recently
:> with an enterprise-class device purchased from a company better known
:> for its consumer-level products.

:Amusing story, please share with us what this "famous-brand" is or you have
:wasted your time and my time.

Have I? And next time you look at networking equipment, you aren't going
to take a moment to check the details of the return policy? Or if you
are in a larger organization, you aren't going to take a moment to
check what your standard purchase agreement language says about
the purchase being subject to "technical acceptance" ?


:Your friend could have returned this device (unspecified) to whoever
:( unspecified) it was purchased from if not for money back then for credit
:toward a different brand.

When contacted, the vendor involved stated that there
would be no possibility of a return for refund or credit unless
a refund was authorized by the manufacturer. The manufacturer's backline
support (the part authorized to issue RMAs) stated flatly that the
manufacturer never authorizes returns for refund. Catch 22.


:D id the device perform the functions that your friend purchased the device
:for, or did your friend just discover that the device's software had flaws?

If you purchase a radio with dozens of knobs, that is advertised as
(say) supporting shortwave, and you have a benchmark-quality shortwave
station sitting transmitting right nearby the radio, and you find that
no matter what -logical- ordering of knobs you twiddle, you can't bring
in the shortwave signal, then your conclusion is likely going to be
that the radio doesn't work -- though you might admit there is a small
possibility that the radio just -might- work if you knew to tilt the
radio at just the right angle and twiddle a number of simultaneous
knobs with no known relationship to each other, including having to
change some of them to unmarked settngs.

Did the device perform the functions my friend purchased the device
for? My friend could not prove conclusively that it could not be
coerced to do so: my friend could only prove that it did not do so when
configured in accordance with the manuals and online documentation.

:D id your friend work with CSR to try to successfully configure the device,
:o r did your friend attempt this by themselves without assistance?

The CSR's response was "upgrade to the latest firmwave and all the problems
will be solved". My friend did the upgrade, and found that none of the
problems were solved. After that, the CSR had no reconfiguration
suggestions to try.


:Some people need to hire a professional to purchase the proper equipment and
:setup a network. Is your friend an IT professional? (unspecified)

Well, my friend doesn't have any certs, if that's what you mean. But my
friend does have a computing degreee, decades of IT experience,
actively works on SME {small/medium enterprise} networking, had
researched the features of the device in detail, and is generally
considered fairly knowledgable about the networking layers involved in
that particular project. (e.g., it wasn't a case of a PC administrator
trying to impliment VOIP.)

If you buy a car, and you have a fair bit of experience with
maintaining and repairing cars, and after 5 long days of intelligent
study and experimentation, you still can't find a way to make it turn
left without the back wheels falling off, then do you say "This car
doesn't work right", or do you say "It's all my fault: I should have
hired an Automotive Consultant trained in this make of car, because I'm
just Not Good Enough to know that when you turn left, you are supposed
to put your right foot in the glove compartment, pull up on the
seat-back adjuster with one hand, reach back to the back seat and tug
on the middle seat belt until it locks, use your other hand to press
the accelarator, and steer the car with your teeth!"
--
Before responding, take into account the possibility that the Universe
was created just an instant ago, and that you have not actually read
anything, but were instead created intact with a memory of having read it.
Anonymous
April 8, 2004 1:18:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Your friend should contact the Better Business Bureau and ask for assistance
in getting satisfaction.
Anonymous
April 8, 2004 4:50:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Filthy Rich <rchrddotspncr@dsl.pipex.com> writes
>
>I've had a Netgear DG834G since last November on a Pipex 1Mb ADSL
>service. I have rung Netgear support only twice in all that time and
>have only had to reset the router about 3 or 4 times.
>
snip
>He was polite and helpful. I was on the phone for about 15 minutes.
>Half of that time was taken up by him asking my details - email
>address, router serial number etc. If I ever have to ring them again
>I now have a customer number so that information won't need to be
>supplied.
snip

My experience as well. Tried to upgrade firmware DG834G to 1.04. Trashed
router and recovery software wouldn't touch it. Rang Netgear support and
had replacement router delivered within 4days (included weekend). New
router now upgraded to 1.04 working fine.

Thanks Netgear.
--
Andrew Case
Anonymous
April 8, 2004 4:50:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

So what's the secret. I call with carefully documented problems, am
polite (until the 5th or 6th attempt anyway), ask reasonable questions
for which they should have answers and I get the run around. Honest, I'm
not making this up. I've been on the other end of enough support calls
that I think I know how to hold up my end.

You actually got useful information. I get "...will escalate and call
back within 24 hours" which they NEVER do. What am I doing wrong? Does
calling from outside the US take you through some other path or
something? I was talking to somebody with an Indian accent part of the
time but there was no language barrier or anything they just didn't have
any answers.

I really like their products. I have so many registered I must have hit
a bug in their web page because it won't take anymore. Enlighten me. How
do I deal with this company?

Andrew Case wrote:
> Filthy Rich <rchrddotspncr@dsl.pipex.com> writes
>
>>
>> I've had a Netgear DG834G since last November on a Pipex 1Mb ADSL
>> service. I have rung Netgear support only twice in all that time and
>> have only had to reset the router about 3 or 4 times.
>>
> snip
>
>> He was polite and helpful. I was on the phone for about 15 minutes.
>> Half of that time was taken up by him asking my details - email
>> address, router serial number etc. If I ever have to ring them again
>> I now have a customer number so that information won't need to be
>> supplied.
>
> snip
>
> My experience as well. Tried to upgrade firmware DG834G to 1.04. Trashed
> router and recovery software wouldn't touch it. Rang Netgear support and
> had replacement router delivered within 4days (included weekend). New
> router now upgraded to 1.04 working fine.
>
> Thanks Netgear.
Anonymous
April 8, 2004 5:45:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 08:25:34 -0400, Larry Riffle
<spamtrap47@adelphia.net> wrote:

>So what's the secret.

The "secret" is that Netgear employees are paid to fabricate positive
testimonials such as the one you are responding to.

> I call with carefully documented problems, am
>polite (until the 5th or 6th attempt anyway), ask reasonable questions
>for which they should have answers and I get the run around. Honest, I'm
>not making this up.

No, you are telling the truth. Yours is the usual experience for
those who are actually able to get through to a live human being.
"Filthy Rich," on the other hand, IS making it up. His post is
complete and total fiction.

>I've been on the other end of enough support calls
>that I think I know how to hold up my end.
>
>You actually got useful information. I get "...will escalate and call
>back within 24 hours" which they NEVER do. What am I doing wrong?

What are you doing wrong? That is obvious. Buying Netgear products
is what you are doing wrong.

>Does
>calling from outside the US take you through some other path or
>something? I was talking to somebody with an Indian accent part of the
>time but there was no language barrier or anything they just didn't have
>any answers.
>
>I really like their products. I have so many registered I must have hit
>a bug in their web page because it won't take anymore. Enlighten me. How
>do I deal with this company?

Just Say NO to Netgear junk.

>
>Andrew Case wrote:
>> Filthy Rich <rchrddotspncr@dsl.pipex.com> writes
>>
>>>
>>> I've had a Netgear DG834G since last November on a Pipex 1Mb ADSL
>>> service. I have rung Netgear support only twice in all that time and
>>> have only had to reset the router about 3 or 4 times.
>>>
>> snip
>>
>>> He was polite and helpful. I was on the phone for about 15 minutes.
>>> Half of that time was taken up by him asking my details - email
>>> address, router serial number etc. If I ever have to ring them again
>>> I now have a customer number so that information won't need to be
>>> supplied.
>>
>> snip
>>
>> My experience as well. Tried to upgrade firmware DG834G to 1.04. Trashed
>> router and recovery software wouldn't touch it. Rang Netgear support and
>> had replacement router delivered within 4days (included weekend). New
>> router now upgraded to 1.04 working fine.
>>
>> Thanks Netgear.
Anonymous
April 8, 2004 7:50:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 23:20:55 +0100, Filthy Rich
<rchrddotspncr@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

>
>I've had a Netgear DG834G since last November on a Pipex 1Mb ADSL
>service. I have rung Netgear support only twice in all that time and
>have only had to reset the router about 3 or 4 times.
>
>I rang their support yesterday on a national rate 0870 number ( who
>says it is expensive?).
[...]
>Well pleased and satisfied......(with Pipex as well....)

You don't have to pay as much as before to call Pipex now, they use
0845 numbers (not as bad as 870 ones - which are premium numbers).

My Netgear has been as solid as a rock on the same ISP, though the
512k service. Uptime = since it was plugged in.

Others' mileage may, and unfortunately does, vary!



Headers spam-proofed. Use cmylod at bigfoot . com
Anonymous
April 8, 2004 9:00:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 15:50:34 +0100, Colum Mylod
<DELETEcmylod@bigfoot.com> wrote:


>You don't have to pay as much as before to call Pipex now, they use
>0845 numbers (not as bad as 870 ones - which are premium numbers).
>

0870 numbers are not really classed as premium rate numbers such as
0901 which are often £1.50 per minute

0870 is charged at national rate like calling London to Birmingham.
0845 is local rate e.g. calling to a nearby town and 0800 is free.


Filthy Rich
Music House
Anonymous
April 8, 2004 9:17:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Filthy Rich, huh?

I guess Netgear pays their shills very well.



On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 23:20:55 +0100, Filthy Rich
<rchrddotspncr@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:

>
>I've had a Netgear DG834G since last November on a Pipex 1Mb ADSL
>service. I have rung Netgear support only twice in all that time and
>have only had to reset the router about 3 or 4 times.
>
>I rang their support yesterday on a national rate 0870 number ( who
>says it is expensive?).
>
>The agent I spoke to may well have been in India but could have been
>on Mars for all I care.
>
>He was polite and helpful. I was on the phone for about 15 minutes.
>Half of that time was taken up by him asking my details - email
>address, router serial number etc. If I ever have to ring them again
>I now have a customer number so that information won't need to be
>supplied.
>
>My query was about upgrading from 1.02 to 1.04 firmware. I was
>advised to upgrade to 1.03 first which I did successfully. I'm now
>running 1.04 and it is fine. My particular query about whether a
>known issue in 1.03 had been resolved in 1.04 was answered in the
>affirmative.
>
>I'm glad I bought Netgear. It's quality kit, does the job I want with
>no hassle and on those rare occasions when I have needed advice it has
>been there promptly and cheaply. On both occasions I rang support, my
>call was answered in less than 2 minutes of queuing time.
>
>Well pleased and satisfied......(with Pipex as well....)
>
>
>Filthy Rich
>Music House
Anonymous
April 8, 2004 9:40:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

ejmfufhgds <euenc@cuwl.com> wrote in
news:ch3b70tjearc5404gapljjck168riemuld@4ax.com:

>>So what's the secret.
>
> The "secret" is that Netgear employees are paid to fabricate positive
> testimonials such as the one you are responding to.

Wow.

Sounds like something out of the x-files.

--
Lucas Tam (REMOVEnntp@rogers.com)
Please delete "REMOVE" from the e-mail address when replying.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/coolspot18/
Anonymous
April 8, 2004 10:02:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

ejmfufhgds <euenc@cuwl.com> wrote in
news:kh4b709qfj4sk1hcm3eprjlmgo3fimo1ea@4ax.com:

> Really? Are you that naive?

No, because the two times I called Netgear I had no problems with their
support...

Actually it was much better than Linksys (but that's not saying much).

Netgear replaced my dead router and dead switch with no hassle.

--
Lucas Tam (REMOVEnntp@rogers.com)
Please delete "REMOVE" from the e-mail address when replying.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/coolspot18/
Anonymous
April 9, 2004 1:53:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 13:45:14 -0400, ejmfufhgds <euenc@cuwl.com> wrote:


>The "secret" is that Netgear employees are paid to fabricate positive
>testimonials such as the one you are responding to.
>
>> I call with carefully documented problems, am
>>polite (until the 5th or 6th attempt anyway), ask reasonable questions
>>for which they should have answers and I get the run around. Honest, I'm
>>not making this up.
>
>No, you are telling the truth. Yours is the usual experience for
>those who are actually able to get through to a live human being.
>"Filthy Rich," on the other hand, IS making it up. His post is
>complete and total fiction.
>

Hey nob head. I am not a Netgear employee and have no reason to make
anything up. Unless you can prove anything, shutup and mind your own
business. Wanker.....


Filthy Rich
Music House
Anonymous
April 9, 2004 1:54:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 17:40:20 GMT, Lucas Tam <REMOVEnntp@rogers.com>
wrote:

>ejmfufhgds <euenc@cuwl.com> wrote in
>news:ch3b70tjearc5404gapljjck168riemuld@4ax.com:
>
>>>So what's the secret.
>>
>> The "secret" is that Netgear employees are paid to fabricate positive
>> testimonials such as the one you are responding to.
>
>Wow.
>
>Sounds like something out of the x-files.

The guy is a complete and utter twat.....


Filthy Rich
Music House
Anonymous
April 9, 2004 2:33:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 17:00:35 +0100, Filthy Rich
<rchrddotspncr@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:


>0870 is charged at national rate like calling London to Birmingham.
>0845 is local rate e.g. calling to a nearby town and 0800 is free.

Not true except if paying too much for London-Birmingham calls (which
might be true with a handle like Filthy Rich!). I pay 1p/min for all
normal calls but can't get 0870 for less than 5p/min.

call18866.co.uk 1p/min nat'l & local calls + 1p connection rate
870 calls: 5p/min with superline.co.uk

BT overcharges normal calls but even so discounts them to less than
the rates for 870. And part of 845/870 call costs go to the called
party = what premium rates are all about. It might only be pennies but
it's not the same as London-Birmingham.


Headers spam-proofed. Use cmylod at bigfoot . com
Anonymous
April 9, 2004 9:33:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

ejmfufhgds <euenc@cuwl.com> wrote in
news:i36c7053isbnotmm46klottugcaha8d7ia@4ax.com:

> And you are a complete and utter lying whore you filthy slut hole
> Netgear shill...
>

You have problems.

--
Lucas Tam (REMOVEnntp@rogers.com)
Please delete "REMOVE" from the e-mail address when replying.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/coolspot18/
Anonymous
April 9, 2004 6:38:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

"Colum Mylod" <DELETEcmylod@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:52hb70pqivgbvbp9vibd03knvqfaibuc0m@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 17:00:35 +0100, Filthy Rich
> <rchrddotspncr@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
>
>
> >0870 is charged at national rate like calling London to Birmingham.
> >0845 is local rate e.g. calling to a nearby town and 0800 is free.
>
> Not true except if paying too much for London-Birmingham calls (which
> might be true with a handle like Filthy Rich!). I pay 1p/min for all
> normal calls but can't get 0870 for less than 5p/min.

technically you are both right.

An 0870 number (in the UK) is a national rate number, but may go anywhere -
not tied to a specific geographic part of the country.

The notional "list price" cost is the same as a geographic call, but the
discounting is different.

Most phone deals give you cheaper national rate calls - but when you read
the small print they are restricted to geographic numbers - 0870s are not
included.

the technical reason is that the way the numbers are handled for 0870 is
different (probably irrelevant with modern equipment, but thats where some
of this started).

the economic reason is that the way that the various phone companies do
money settlement for the part of a call they handle is different - probably
down to the way traffic patterns processing costs have changed since the BT
monopoly got broken up.

the economic issue is that the phone company will normally give some of the
call income to the owner of the 0870 number as part of the contract - and i
suspect that is often more than the total for the cheapest national call
rates.....all down down to competition for traffic to those big call
centres.
>
> call18866.co.uk 1p/min nat'l & local calls + 1p connection rate
> 870 calls: 5p/min with superline.co.uk
>
> BT overcharges normal calls but even so discounts them to less than
> the rates for 870. And part of 845/870 call costs go to the called
> party = what premium rates are all about. It might only be pennies but
> it's not the same as London-Birmingham.
>
>
> Headers spam-proofed. Use cmylod at bigfoot . com
--
Regards

Stephen Hope - remove xx from email to reply
Anonymous
April 15, 2004 1:43:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

In message <9jta7057cs4l78hpp2v4o2tsiie8gjgglc@4ax.com>, Filthy Rich
<rchrddotspncr@dsl.pipex.com> writes
>0870 numbers are not really classed as premium rate numbers such as
>0901 which are often £1.50 per minute
>
>0870 is charged at national rate like calling London to Birmingham.

Only if you are using British Telecom. Most sensible people who are
less than filthy rich use one of the many alternative carriers, which
charge about one sixth as much for local and national calls as BT.
Unfortunately one cannot get cut-price 0870 calls, as these have to be
passed on to BT (e.g. to cover the cost of passing them to India).

After some date in June you will find that even using BT the charges for
0870 numbers will be much higher than for ordinary national calls. So
saying that they are not "premium rate" may be technically correct, but
very misleading.

--
Clive Page
Anonymous
April 16, 2004 2:50:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 21:43:27 +0100, Clive Page <junk@page.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

>After some date in June you will find that even using BT the charges for
>0870 numbers will be much higher than for ordinary national calls. So
>saying that they are not "premium rate" may be technically correct, but
>very misleading.

Quite right. And to reinforce the idea that they *are* premium rate
use this simple mathematical formula:

How much would it cost to directly dial the callee using
call18866/superline/quip/even BT? Cost = X

How much does it cost via their 0870 number? Cost = Y

The difference Y-X is the premium I'm scammed out of. For UK calls
that's typically 7p/min *per caller* all of which adds up. When
organisations like the BBC do this on top of the licence fee, start
blood to boil!


Headers spam-proofed. Use cmylod at bigfoot . com
!