ATI 9800 PRO or X800 XT

revbungie

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Nov 8, 2004
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How much of a performance difference would you see in something like EverQuest 2 between the 2 cards (or for that matter, Doom 3 or any other graphic intensive game?)

There is roughly a $200 difference in the 2 cards, the lowest 9800 PRO I have seen is about $220 - the lowest X800 XT is around $430 or so.

I have a 9700 PRO right now - the other question is it worthwhile spending ~$220 to upgrade to a 9800PRO, or should I just bite the bullet.

For anyone that cares, I have had excellent mileage from my 9700PRO. I have never had a problem with it, or the catalyst drivers - while I have had numerous problems with the nVidia cards (fan noise - obscene - and driver problems) - so I have given up on nVidia cards for the most part.
 

pauldh

Illustrious
Umm, Keep the 9700 Pro for sure. It is way too close to a R9800 Pro to think about upgrading...just not worth it. Your card is a good card and plenty fast for you to play the games coming out this year. I say keep it as your final AGP card and when you later upgrade your whole system, alot more choices will be out and you'll probabably want PCI-e anyway. Depending on your system, the X800XT may not show much improvement in some games over the 9700 Pro anyway. If your system is top notch, then it will show more. If so, and you will be waiting a long time to upgrade the whole system, then you may want to consider going all out on the X800XT. Otherwise, you could look into safely overclocking the 9700pro for a few more fps if/when needed.

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 1GB Corsair XMS 4000 Pro Series, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
 

revbungie

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what would you suggest to eck out more performance from my system - this is what i have currently:

The motherboard is based off the Intel 850E chipset - its an intel board, but for the life of me I cannot remember what the model is.

768 MB RDRAM
9700PRO - 128 MB RAM
Pentium 4 - 2.5Ghz

If you need other information, please let me know - what could I upgrade to get a performance boost - ie. most bang for the buck.

Thanks!
 

cleeve

Illustrious
Most bang for the buck?

Your system is decent, but not worth replacing individual components on because none of them are particularly slow, and you're probably going to upgrade your whole platform when the time comes. So... your holy grail is... OVERCLOCKING!

First, see how fast you can get your CPU overclocked. Might be worth it to buy a nice aftermarket cooler.

Ditto for the 9700 PRO. One of the best 9700 PRO mods is to remove the factory cooler, and then remove the GPU shim... this allows you to use thermal paste on the cooler instead of crappy thermal tape, and give you much better GPU cooling and... consequently... much better overclocks than stock.

A typical P4 2.5 could probably get to 2.8 Ghz very easily with decent air cooling, and if you're lucky your 9700 PRO will overclock to 9800 PRO speeds for free!

A noticable perormance increase, and very satisfying for the entheusiast.


________________
<b>Radeon <font color=red>9700 PRO</b></font color=red> <i>(o/c 332/345)</i>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>3200+</b></font color=red> <i>(Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)</i>
<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>5,354</b>
 

pauldh

Illustrious
Not an easy choice really. Your system is pretty good as it is and should game well for the next year. It's also fairly evenly matched and was a very nice rig in it's day. That said, as with me you are already experiencing the need to turn down resolution, details, and other eye candy to keep it running smooth. Problem is, you have a tough system to upgrade. And it depends on the game what would show the best increase. More often than not in todays games I'd guess the X800XT would show a boost in performance on your system over your 9700 pro.

Your motherboard may support a faster Pentium 4-B(533 bus Northwood) processor than your current 2.53Ghz model, but it is hard to justify spending money on a small gain in performance you'd get going with the 2.8Ghz or even 3.06GHz. SO I wouldn't recommend a CPU upgrade.

Your Rambus memory, although the fastest of it's day, is basically dead nowadays, so you won't be reusing that on your next system. That tacks on a large extra cost buying 1GB of DDR , making it a CPU/mobo/ram upgrade all at once if you were to upgrade to say an Athlon 64.

Kinda brings us down to Video card like you first asked. Will it be worth the upgrade to a X800XT and be able to really shine paired with that system? That's the big question. Your system is a little behind but pretty close to a Pentium 4 2.4C (800 bus). SO you can look for comparisons with the P4 2.4C showing how the new graphics cards compare.

While [H] didn't test all cards on the Pentium 4 2.4C, we can conclude based on what is available that you will see a big increase in Doom3 playability/performance on your system if you upgraded to a X800XT.

Look at the Radeon 9800 pro on a <A HREF="http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTA5MDc4NzE0M1RPNjJBTU9FV1hfOF8zX2wuZ2lm" target="_new">P4 2.4C</A> and on a <A HREF="http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTA5MDc4NzE0M1RPNjJBTU9FV1hfOV84X2wuZ2lm" target="_new">3.0C</A>. Same settings and equal performance meaning the 9800 pro is what is the bottleneck. Now on the same P4 3.0C, stick in a <A HREF="http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTA5MDc4NzE0M1RPNjJBTU9FV1hfOV81X2wuZ2lm" target="_new">X800XTpe</A> and the playable settings/performance skyrockets. Interesting to see that with a X800XTpe upgrading from a P4 3.0C to an <A HREF="http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTA5MDc4NzE0M1RPNjJBTU9FV1hfMTdfNV9sLmdpZg==" target="_new">AMD FX53</A>(much faster gaming chip) gives no gain, meaning with a 3.0GHz cpu and up <b>at those high resolution/details</b>, the X800XTpe is the bottleneck and not the P4 3.0C.

What does this all mean to you. I'd say that in Doom 3 the X800XT would allow you turn up the playable resolution and details compared to your R9700 pro. Now your cpu may/will bottleneck the X800Xt before the P4 3.0C, but still looks promising as to a nice visual gain while remaining playable.

Keep in mind other games may be completely CPU limited and may show little to no gains upgrading the video card on your system.

Anyway, maybe Buying a faster Video card now is your best option if you MUST upgrade now. Just means you'll want to look for an AGP mobo when you upgrade the rest of the system so you can still use the X800XT.



ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 1GB Corsair XMS 4000 Pro Series, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
 

pauldh

Illustrious
Man, I started my book way before you posted. Got a phone call, finished the book and now you stole my glory. :frown: LOL

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 1GB Corsair XMS 4000 Pro Series, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
 

cleeve

Illustrious
Sorry dood. :)

You're post is still really good though. You explained *why* it wasn't worth upgrading his platform, I just sort of alluded to it because I'm lazy. So it's useful info, for sure.

The only thing I wanted to add but forgot to is that... if he gets an AGP based X800 or something, he's screwed when he DOES upgrade his platform because he'll probably get a mobo that only takes PCIe.

That's another good reason why he's better off overclocking until it's time to replace everything.

________________
<b>Radeon <font color=red>9700 PRO</b></font color=red> <i>(o/c 332/345)</i>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>3200+</b></font color=red> <i>(Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)</i>
<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>5,354</b>
 

pauldh

Illustrious
Yup, but seeing your post would have save me alot of time. :wink: Anyway, I agree with you on the OC solution/ and the AGP/PCIe dilema.


ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 1GB Corsair XMS 4000 Pro Series, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
 

sweatlaserxp

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Sep 7, 2003
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The 9700 Pro is still quite good, so buying a 9800 Pro would be all but foolish.

The bottom line: <b>If you want to play certain intensive titles like Doom 3, Far Cry, or Half Life 2, at the highest resolutions and AA/AF turned up, then you're going to have to upgrade to one of the new top-end cards like the 6800GT/X800XT</b>.

It depends on how high you want the settings, and whether you are happy/unhappy with your current performance. If you play at 1024*768 with a little AA/AF then the 9700 Pro should see you through just fine.

<A HREF="http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/landing/landingIndex.jsp?id=dumb01&mature=accept" target="_new">DumbLand</A>
 
HAha! LOL!

Welcome to my world of the, 'Oh, yeah, Ditto what Cleeve said.' phrase. :wink:


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil:
 

pauldh

Illustrious
LOL, Yup, just saw one of those cases where he beat you by seconds.

In my case, I was just way too slow, like 20+ minutes. I was waiting for an important phone call and answering that question in depth was a relaxing way to get my mind off the delayed call. Then got the call, and finished up the post in a hurry to see Cleeve's been there... done that.

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 1GB Corsair XMS 4000 Pro Series, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
 

revbungie

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Thanks guys -

I think I am going to try the overclocking suggestion, and hold out for another year or so before I upgrade, then do a more all encompassing upgrade, and turn this into a server box or something.

That was a very good suggestion about the AGP/PCIe - I had not considered that - glad you brought it up.

I would take out the 256 MB of RDRAM and drop in 512 MB more, if it costs as much as DDR memory does, but unfortunately it does not - its about 2x as expensive - and as such cost prohibitive - the only reason I have what I have is becuase that RAMBUS memory came out of my old box when I upgraded and plopped it into my new one.

DOOM3 and Far Cry, and games like that - are playable unless there is alot going on - I get about 30-40 FPS just running around, when the sh!t hits the fan, that drops to about 20FPS or so - playable, but noticably "shuttery" - thats what I am trying to solve here.

Well - that and it would be nice to have a DVI out on my card so I can hook it to my Hitachi 52" TV and play games on it =)
 

sweatlaserxp

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DOOM3 and Far Cry, and games like that - are playable unless there is alot going on
Both of those titles are incredibly CPU-intensive. Far Cry is hefty because of the sophisticated physics, complex enemy AI, vehicle movements, etc... when there is a big explosion near a lot of moveable objects, it always swamps my system. Doom 3 has a lot of logic going on as well. The initial shadow calculations are on the CPU, and I've noticed that my system gets a bit swamped when there are more than a few enemies on the screen. Also, there is a lot of complex moving machinery. Really the only solution is to upgrade to fast, new computer.

<A HREF="http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/landing/landingIndex.jsp?id=dumb01&mature=accept" target="_new">DumbLand</A>
 
i play doom 3 and far cry on the highest settings with solid fps with my 9800AIW :tongue:

"Never underestimate the predictability of Stupidity."
<A HREF="http://www.cameronwilliamson.com" target="_new">-={Neurotic Narcissist.}=-</A>
<font color=green>{FLM}</font color=green>
 

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