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Dim 4700 heat & noise

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March 9, 2005 4:48:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Specs: Dell Dimension 4700 with P4 530 and 160 GB SATA disk.

The noise from the disk when moving the heads is much louder than I
would like. I did change the BIOS setting to quiet mode, which barely
helps. To make matters worse, the disk seems to seek when idle as a
"feature" to help cool the Seagate disk (reports itself as ST3160023AS).
This feature means that every minute or two there's a steady 30
seconds of buzzing. This happens even when in BIOS setup mode (no OS
running) so it's not a software issue.

I hate to admit it, but I'm a noise freak and this is spoiling my
enjoyment of the new system. According to SMART utilities, the disk
runs at about 45-50c degrees, which seems very hot to me. I checked the
Seagate specs, and this is within spec. I couldn't believe how hot to
the touch it was when I opened the case. I can also feel the heat
radiating from the lower front of the case.

The fact that these P4s make so much heat isn't helping. As it is, I
can't believe how much heat blows out the back of this machine. I have
a hunch that if the exhaust fan ran faster, the disk might run cooler,
and thus the noise would go away. But I don't know how to control the
exhaust fan speed.

Silence is more important to me than speed. Any advice?

I would also like to know how common this is. I suspect the hardware is
all within spec and sending it back would only yield another that
behaves the same, and I would have lost a week of restoring everything.

Thanks for any advice.

EJ

More about : dim 4700 heat noise

Anonymous
March 9, 2005 4:48:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

EJ <EJEJ@EJ.EJ> writes:
>I would also like to know how common this is. I suspect the hardware is
>all within spec and sending it back would only yield another that
>behaves the same, and I would have lost a week of restoring everything.

I don't have a big noise problem but I do see a significant difference between
the temperature of the PATA drives in other systems and the SATA drives. The
SATA drives all seem to run 10-15 F degrees hotter.

I have twenty of them so it does seem to be the typical situation. I bought
an extra case fan for a few of the systems to see if it would reduce the hard
drive temperature - it doesn't make as much difference as I'd hoped - so
increasing the cpu fan speed is probably not going to help either.

Check the hood around the CPU - if its loose it might be causing some of the
noise. I also found a couple of our 4700's had a loose side case panel that
was vibrating and generating a buzzing sound. When the panel is tightened up
the noise was reduced.

The 4700 has two drive bays in the front but you can no longer buy a dual
disk 4700 from Dell's site last time I checked. My guess is they have some
evidence that putting two SATA drives together like that is a bad thing to
do - shake and bake!

So I'm thinking I've either got to get some kind of mondo heat sink for these
SATA drives or give up on them soon. Fortunately the drives have a 5 year
warranty. Back up your data.

To make matters worse a series of 4600's nearby run faster, cooler, and make
less noise. Arg!!

Later

Mark Hittinger
bugs@pu.net
March 9, 2005 8:08:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"EJ" <EJEJ@EJ.EJ> wrote in message
news:o BsXd.6068$CW2.5781@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Specs: Dell Dimension 4700 with P4 530 and 160 GB SATA disk.
>
> The noise from the disk when moving the heads is much louder than I would
> like. I did change the BIOS setting to quiet mode, which barely helps. To
> make matters worse, the disk seems to seek when idle as a "feature" to
> help cool the Seagate disk (reports itself as ST3160023AS). This feature
> means that every minute or two there's a steady 30 seconds of buzzing.
> This happens even when in BIOS setup mode (no OS running) so it's not a
> software issue.
>
> I hate to admit it, but I'm a noise freak and this is spoiling my
> enjoyment of the new system. According to SMART utilities, the disk runs
> at about 45-50c degrees, which seems very hot to me. I checked the
> Seagate specs, and this is within spec. I couldn't believe how hot to the
> touch it was when I opened the case. I can also feel the heat radiating
> from the lower front of the case.
>
> The fact that these P4s make so much heat isn't helping. As it is, I
> can't believe how much heat blows out the back of this machine. I have a
> hunch that if the exhaust fan ran faster, the disk might run cooler, and
> thus the noise would go away. But I don't know how to control the exhaust
> fan speed.
>
> Silence is more important to me than speed. Any advice?
>
> I would also like to know how common this is. I suspect the hardware is
> all within spec and sending it back would only yield another that behaves
> the same, and I would have lost a week of restoring everything.
>
> Thanks for any advice.
>
> EJ

Hi Ej

mine is the same , but i have the WD 250 sata drive and this does the same.
I thought about putting a fan on the drive, but havent got round to doings
so.
Just put a x600 pro grahics card in and that is louder than the cpu exhaust/
power supply fans just on normal, so i will have to find a solution to that
now(video card)
Dave
Related resources
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 6:55:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"S.Lewis" <stew1960@cover.bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:UyHXd.19408$5T6.4378@bignews4.bellsouth.net...

> Interesting series of exchanges there. I have no idea why they have the
> fans configured to pull air IN rather than most every Dimension model I've
> ever handled (going back to the XPS R models) which had the fan pushing warm
> air OUT (exhausting).

> The fact that I've seen exactly NONE from the factory otherwise suggested to
> me that this is by design from their engineering tests and studies. ?

How many 4700s would that be?

> [] The third would perhaps be that *all* of the 4700's have
> a copper-core passive heatsink (I've noticed that some of the newest 3.0+GHz
> units have the same oversized heatsink/shroud as the Dim8400).

Just to confirm... the 8400 CPU fan blows air OUT of the case?

Do you happen to know whether the PS fan is variable speed in
either the 4700 or 8400?

TIA
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 11:47:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"User N" <usern@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:Yu-dnduUE7I6_7LfRVn-vQ@comcast.com...
>
> "S.Lewis" <stew1960@cover.bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:UyHXd.19408$5T6.4378@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
>
>> Interesting series of exchanges there. I have no idea why they have the
>> fans configured to pull air IN rather than most every Dimension model
>> I've ever handled (going back to the XPS R models) which had the fan
>> pushing warm air OUT (exhausting).
>
>> The fact that I've seen exactly NONE from the factory otherwise suggested
>> to me that this is by design from their engineering tests and studies. ?
>
> How many 4700s would that be?


More than I can count.


>
>> [] The third would perhaps be that *all* of the 4700's have a copper-core
>> passive heatsink (I've noticed that some of the newest 3.0+GHz units have
>> the same oversized heatsink/shroud as the Dim8400).
>
> Just to confirm... the 8400 CPU fan blows air OUT of the case?


Absolutely. Not to be confused, while the passive heatsink is identical in
these faster, newer 4700's, the fans are NOT the same as the fan in the
8400. The housing and green shroud over the heatsink are designed very
similar to the 8400 design, but the fan/shroud assembly is not identical.

W/regard to the 8400 hinged case, it also underwent significant vent.
changes from it's predecessor the Dimension 8300 (which I worried did not
'breathe' enough).
A front vent/'scoop' was added below the 8400 front USB/Audio I/O ports, and
additional open grille area was added to the metal on the rear of the case.
The heatsink, fan, and fan shroud were all enlarged/improved. Additionally,
the "75w video adapter card" limit was added in user guides (online) which
calls for an additional "blower" fan to be added to the case above the
expansion cards (for PCIe cards that exceed the 75w spec). It also "pushes"
air over the cards and out the rear of the system (in the newer grille
area).


>
> Do you happen to know whether the PS fan is variable speed in
> either the 4700 or 8400?


To my knowledge they are not. In fact, I feel almost positive that they're
not.


Stew
Anonymous
March 9, 2005 11:54:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Mark Hittinger" <bugs@pu.net> wrote in message
news:o MudnbnGWrZmGbPfRVn-2Q@comcast.com...
> EJ <EJEJ@EJ.EJ> writes:

<snip>

>
> To make matters worse a series of 4600's nearby run faster, cooler, and
> make
> less noise. Arg!!
>
> Later
>
> Mark Hittinger
> bugs@pu.net


Mark,

What benchmark or method are you using to determine that the 4600's are
faster?

And out of further curiousity, what are the general specs
(CPU/RAM/video/HDD) on the 4600s and 4700s being compared?

When the 4700/8400 series came out, I vaguely recall reading somewhere that
performance gains were not immediately apparent but were rather hoped for
"in the long run" w/regard to the LGA775 (Intel 915/925 chipsets) using DDR2
and SATA drives.

Now that the hardware has been out a while, I'd guessed that much progress
had been made. ?


Stew
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 1:55:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"S.Lewis" <stew1960@cover.bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:uxOXd.32732$%Y4.16279@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>
> "User N" <usern@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:Yu-dnduUE7I6_7LfRVn-vQ@comcast.com...

>> How many 4700s would that be?
>
> More than I can count.

Hmmm, ok.

>>> [] The third would perhaps be that *all* of the 4700's have a copper-core
>>> passive heatsink (I've noticed that some of the newest 3.0+GHz units have
>>> the same oversized heatsink/shroud as the Dim8400).
>>
>> Just to confirm... the 8400 CPU fan blows air OUT of the case?
>
> Absolutely. Not to be confused, while the passive heatsink is identical in
> these faster, newer 4700's, the fans are NOT the same as the fan in the
> 8400. The housing and green shroud over the heatsink are designed very
> similar to the 8400 design, but the fan/shroud assembly is not identical.

Is there anything about the 8400 fan/shroud assembly that would lead you
to believe they are capable of moving significantly more air or otherwise
providing significantly more cooling?

How about the power supplies... IIRC the 8400's is a higher watt unit,
but are the fan sizes the same?

If the CPU and PS fans in both the 4700 and 8400 provide similar amounts
of airflow, perhaps a reason for the fan reversal could be found elsewhere.

> W/regard to the 8400 hinged case, it also underwent significant vent.
> changes from it's predecessor the Dimension 8300 (which I worried did not
> 'breathe' enough).
> A front vent/'scoop' was added below the 8400 front USB/Audio I/O ports, and
> additional open grille area was added to the metal on the rear of the case.

The pictures I've seen did give me the impression that the 8400 has more front
vent area and it is less restricted. IIRC, with the 4700's CPU fan blowing out,
airflow into the front vent was obvious to the hand but not terribly impressive.
With that substantial grill area on the side, perhaps most of the air is coming
in through there.

> The heatsink, fan, and fan shroud were all enlarged/improved. Additionally,
> the "75w video adapter card" limit was added in user guides (online) which
> calls for an additional "blower" fan to be added to the case above the
> expansion cards (for PCIe cards that exceed the 75w spec). It also "pushes"
> air over the cards and out the rear of the system (in the newer grille
> area).

The card fan is something I've been wondering about. I don't recall seeing any
obvious mounting points in the 4700, and a little digging didn't turn up any
references to a card fan being available for the 4700. Have you heard of such
a beast?

If one *isn't* available, that would be a significant difference between the
4700 and 8400. If the 4700's CPU fan is blowing out, I'd expect much of the
GPU heat to be pulled through the CPU heatsink. If I read your comment
correctly, in a card fan equipped 8400, GPU heat would be routed out the
back vent. So what do they do with the 4700? Will it reject the higher
wattage graphics cards that would require a card fan in the 8400? Or maybe
they decided to reverse the CPU fan so that it wouldn't be swallowing GPU
heat?

>> Do you happen to know whether the PS fan is variable speed in
>> either the 4700 or 8400?
>
> To my knowledge they are not. In fact, I feel almost positive that they're
> not.

OK, well like I said, one or more fans was working harder before I made
the CPU fan blow out. This was with box out in the open rather than under
a desk or what not. If the PS fan RPM was the same regardless of CPU
fan direction, then when the CPU fan was blowing IN, it was working
harder. I'm not sure what that means, although one possible explanation
would be that even in an unenclosed space, the CPU fan was drawing in
hot air that was exhausted by the PS fan.
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 1:55:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"User N" <usern@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:TYGdncexYN22WLLfRVn-jg@comcast.com...
>
> "S.Lewis" <stew1960@cover.bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:uxOXd.32732$%Y4.16279@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>>
>> "User N" <usern@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:Yu-dnduUE7I6_7LfRVn-vQ@comcast.com...
>
>>> How many 4700s would that be?
>>
>> More than I can count.
>
> Hmmm, ok.


Thanks. I make millions by posting bad information to newsgroups just like
this one. <sarcasm>


>
>>>> [] The third would perhaps be that *all* of the 4700's have a
>>>> copper-core passive heatsink (I've noticed that some of the newest
>>>> 3.0+GHz units have the same oversized heatsink/shroud as the Dim8400).
>>>
>>> Just to confirm... the 8400 CPU fan blows air OUT of the case?
>>
>> Absolutely. Not to be confused, while the passive heatsink is identical
>> in these faster, newer 4700's, the fans are NOT the same as the fan in
>> the 8400. The housing and green shroud over the heatsink are designed
>> very similar to the 8400 design, but the fan/shroud assembly is not
>> identical.
>
> Is there anything about the 8400 fan/shroud assembly that would lead you
> to believe they are capable of moving significantly more air or otherwise
> providing significantly more cooling?
>

I've not measured the fan diameters, but they appear roughly the same. The
8400 fan, however, has a far deeper fan and blade. If you experience one of
these fans in an out-of-control state (search this ng for threads if you
like, or the Dell support forums) it would certainly appear to be a far more
powerful fan. It can move light objects off of a flat surface very easily.

All that said, I've not come across CFM specs for either the fan in the 4700
or 8400. Both are variable RPM fans.


> How about the power supplies... IIRC the 8400's is a higher watt unit,
> but are the fan sizes the same?
>
> If the CPU and PS fans in both the 4700 and 8400 provide similar amounts
> of airflow, perhaps a reason for the fan reversal could be found
> elsewhere.


I've not worked with as many 8400's.

I honestly don't know if the PS fan diameters are the same on the units,
though I know that the specs.ratings on the PS's are far different:

Dim4700 specs, including power supply and heat dissipation:
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim4700/s...

Dim8400 specs, including power supply and heat dissipation:
http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim8400/S...

With regard to a relentless "search for a reason" the 4700 fan is reversed,
you'd probably be far better off posting the query over on the Dell
community forum (Dimension/general hardware) board and see if the Dell
moderator will respond.

We're nothing but a bunch of users here, very unofficial indeed.


>
>> W/regard to the 8400 hinged case, it also underwent significant vent.
>> changes from it's predecessor the Dimension 8300 (which I worried did not
>> 'breathe' enough).
>> A front vent/'scoop' was added below the 8400 front USB/Audio I/O ports,
>> and additional open grille area was added to the metal on the rear of the
>> case.
>
> The pictures I've seen did give me the impression that the 8400 has more
> front
> vent area and it is less restricted.


I don't know that I agree with that, but I have nothing to base my opinion
upon. The hinged cases have always seemed to me to be more airflow
restricted, while the plastics and actual sheet metal venting on the small
boxes (Dimension 23XX,24XX,3000,46XX, and 4700) have seemed to be less so.

The 8400 case is a huge improvement over the previous hinged systems - but
then again it's much hotter. This heat issue is a big part of what lead
Intel to change direction recently :
http://news.com.com/Intel+kills+plans+for+4GHz+Pentium/...

I'd also add to that that I've not been able to pin any 4700/8400 problem to
heat other than an outright 'thermal event' or 'fan failure'. I suppose the
heat could have a slower cumulative effect on components, but these models
are relatively new.


>IIRC, with the 4700's CPU fan blowing out,
> airflow into the front vent was obvious to the hand but not terribly
> impressive.
> With that substantial grill area on the side, perhaps most of the air is
> coming
> in through there.


I would tend to agree, but again have no proof of such. I've never reversed
any of those fans.


>
>> The heatsink, fan, and fan shroud were all enlarged/improved.
>> Additionally, the "75w video adapter card" limit was added in user guides
>> (online) which calls for an additional "blower" fan to be added to the
>> case above the expansion cards (for PCIe cards that exceed the 75w spec).
>> It also "pushes" air over the cards and out the rear of the system (in
>> the newer grille area).
>
> The card fan is something I've been wondering about. I don't recall
> seeing any
> obvious mounting points in the 4700, and a little digging didn't turn up
> any
> references to a card fan being available for the 4700. Have you heard of
> such
> a beast?


No, and to my knowledge none (OEM) exists. There are plenty of (retail)
ways to mount fans in the system, but those options would almost surely make
the system more noisy.

>
> If one *isn't* available, that would be a significant difference between
> the
> 4700 and 8400. If the 4700's CPU fan is blowing out, I'd expect much of
> the
> GPU heat to be pulled through the CPU heatsink.


That's certainly a possibility. I've seen a few 4700's using the
mid-to-low-end NVidia (fanned) card. They operated satisfactorily with the
fan (obviously) pulling inward.


> If I read your comment
> correctly, in a card fan equipped 8400, GPU heat would be routed out the
> back vent. So what do they do with the 4700?

There may be someone in the group with that configuration, but I've not seen
a 4700 with the top-of-the-line Radeon or NVidia ( 2 slot ) PCIe video card.
Those options (75w or higher card) may not be offered on the 4700 as
ordered. Not sure. But one would guess that the heat would simply be
forced out similarly except with any interference the physical width/height
of the card and it's fan might create (as well as the additional GPU heat).
Perhaps someone can comment more conclusively.


> Will it reject the higher
> wattage graphics cards that would require a card fan in the 8400? Or
> maybe
> they decided to reverse the CPU fan so that it wouldn't be swallowing GPU
> heat?
>

Again, dunno. Since the 4700 has "only" a 305w rated PS (equal to that of
the older Dim8300) perhaps that limits it from using the fastest/newest
cards, many of which whose vendors suggest minimums of 350, 400, or even
higher wattage power supplies.

Someone out there has tried it, I'm sure. I'd look to the Dell community
forum on that one (Dimension/Video group).

As a guess I'd think the 4700 PS couldn't handle the latest/greatest PCIe
GPU needs.


>>> Do you happen to know whether the PS fan is variable speed in
>>> either the 4700 or 8400?
>>
>> To my knowledge they are not. In fact, I feel almost positive that
>> they're not.
>
> OK, well like I said, one or more fans was working harder before I made
> the CPU fan blow out. This was with box out in the open rather than under
> a desk or what not. If the PS fan RPM was the same regardless of CPU
> fan direction, then when the CPU fan was blowing IN, it was working
> harder. I'm not sure what that means, although one possible explanation
> would be that even in an unenclosed space, the CPU fan was drawing in
> hot air that was exhausted by the PS fan.
>

I'm not disputing your claims about fan load whatsoever. Again, I've not
reversed a fan in those systems as I've not had to or felt the need. In
fact, I quite believe you'd see some variance in fan(s) speed(s) when
changing the flow.

Post back if you get some official word from Dell that explains what appears
to be the designed airflow change.


Stew
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 1:59:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"S.Lewis" <stew1960@cover.bellsouth.net> writes:
>What benchmark or method are you using to determine that the 4600's are
>faster?

scimark

>And out of further curiousity, what are the general specs
>(CPU/RAM/video/HDD) on the 4600s and 4700s being compared?

Roughly similar both 3.0ghz 800fsb. 4600's have the Northwood pentium with
512k cache and the 4700's have the Prescott pentium with the 1mb cache.

When I say the 4600's are faster they are faster with respect to cpu
intensive benchmarks. A disk i/o intensive benchmark would probably do better
on the 4700 with the sata disk.

4600 3.0ghz 800fsb northwood scimark:
Composite Score: 762.98
FFT Mflops: 350.25 (N=1024)
SOR Mflops: 454.47 (100 x 100)
MonteCarlo: Mflops: 568.12
Sparse matmult Mflops: 981.81 (N=1000, nz=5000)
LU Mflops: 1460.25 (M=100, N=100)

4700 3.0ghz 800fsb prescott scimark:
Composite Score: 651.70
FFT Mflops: 371.12 (N=1024)
SOR Mflops: 432.05 (100 x 100)
MonteCarlo: Mflops: 443.69
Sparse matmult Mflops: 753.29 (N=1000, nz=5000)
LU Mflops: 1258.37 (M=100, N=100)

The scimark scores above were produced by compiling scimark with the Intel
8.1 C compiler and turning on mondo optimizations.

Later

Mark Hittinger
bugs@pu.net
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 2:28:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"Mark Hittinger" <bugs@pu.net> wrote in message
news:07mdnQGVroS0SbLfRVn-iw@comcast.com...
> "S.Lewis" <stew1960@cover.bellsouth.net> writes:
>>What benchmark or method are you using to determine that the 4600's are
>>faster?
>
> scimark
>
>>And out of further curiousity, what are the general specs
>>(CPU/RAM/video/HDD) on the 4600s and 4700s being compared?
>
> Roughly similar both 3.0ghz 800fsb. 4600's have the Northwood pentium
> with
> 512k cache and the 4700's have the Prescott pentium with the 1mb cache.
>
> When I say the 4600's are faster they are faster with respect to cpu
> intensive benchmarks. A disk i/o intensive benchmark would probably do
> better
> on the 4700 with the sata disk.
>
> 4600 3.0ghz 800fsb northwood scimark:
> Composite Score: 762.98
> FFT Mflops: 350.25 (N=1024)
> SOR Mflops: 454.47 (100 x 100)
> MonteCarlo: Mflops: 568.12
> Sparse matmult Mflops: 981.81 (N=1000, nz=5000)
> LU Mflops: 1460.25 (M=100, N=100)
>
> 4700 3.0ghz 800fsb prescott scimark:
> Composite Score: 651.70
> FFT Mflops: 371.12 (N=1024)
> SOR Mflops: 432.05 (100 x 100)
> MonteCarlo: Mflops: 443.69
> Sparse matmult Mflops: 753.29 (N=1000, nz=5000)
> LU Mflops: 1258.37 (M=100, N=100)
>
> The scimark scores above were produced by compiling scimark with the Intel
> 8.1 C compiler and turning on mondo optimizations.
>
> Later
>
> Mark Hittinger
> bugs@pu.net



Could this be a Northwood versus Prescott issue? Thanks for the results.

My Northwood feels younger already!

Stew
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 4:03:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"S.Lewis" <stew1960@cover.bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:o eQXd.32818$%Y4.2014@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>
> "User N" <usern@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:TYGdncexYN22WLLfRVn-jg@comcast.com...
>>
>> "S.Lewis" <stew1960@cover.bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>> news:uxOXd.32732$%Y4.16279@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>>>
>>> "User N" <usern@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:Yu-dnduUE7I6_7LfRVn-vQ@comcast.com...
>>
>>>> How many 4700s would that be?
>>>
>>> More than I can count.
>>
>> Hmmm, ok.
>
> Thanks. I make millions by posting bad information to newsgroups just like
> this one. <sarcasm>

Care to share some of the action? Apparently I have some potential ;-)

Seriously, "hmmm, ok" merely reflects the fact that I was contemplating
that consequences of what you said and acknowledging it. That you've
seen alot of 4700s with CPU fans blowing in and none blowing out
makes it more likely that is by design. Which would mean a) the final
word from Dell, after two calls, was wrong, and b) I reversed the CPU
fan for nothing and may have to go over and change it back. Well, we
could make them come out and change it back. But that doesn't make
me feel any better.
March 10, 2005 5:35:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

delboy wrote:
> "EJ" <EJEJ@EJ.EJ> wrote in message
> news:o BsXd.6068$CW2.5781@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
>>Specs: Dell Dimension 4700 with P4 530 and 160 GB SATA disk.
>>
>>The noise from the disk when moving the heads is much louder than I would
>>like. I did change the BIOS setting to quiet mode, which barely helps. To
>>make matters worse, the disk seems to seek when idle as a "feature" to
>>help cool the Seagate disk (reports itself as ST3160023AS). This feature
>>means that every minute or two there's a steady 30 seconds of buzzing.
>>This happens even when in BIOS setup mode (no OS running) so it's not a
>>software issue.
>>
>>I hate to admit it, but I'm a noise freak and this is spoiling my
>>enjoyment of the new system. According to SMART utilities, the disk runs
>>at about 45-50c degrees, which seems very hot to me. I checked the
>>Seagate specs, and this is within spec. I couldn't believe how hot to the
>>touch it was when I opened the case. I can also feel the heat radiating
>>from the lower front of the case.
>>

....

>
> Hi Ej
>
> mine is the same , but i have the WD 250 sata drive and this does the same.
> I thought about putting a fan on the drive, but havent got round to doings
> so.
> Just put a x600 pro grahics card in and that is louder than the cpu exhaust/
> power supply fans just on normal, so i will have to find a solution to that
> now(video card)
> Dave
>

Dave,

When you say yours is the same, do you mean the disk temp is high? Or
do you hear the seek noise/buzz when the PC is idle? (Or both)

I ask because I thought one option I had was to find a quieter disk. My
other PC has an 80 GB PATA Maxtor that is virtually silent, even under
heavy load, e.g., defrag. If I could find a SATA version of that it
would make me happier. I also read that the seek-when-idle feature is a
Seagate feature called STIR (Seek to improve reliability), but I suppose
other manufacturers could have similar features.

EJ
March 10, 2005 5:44:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

Mark Hittinger wrote:
> EJ <EJEJ@EJ.EJ> writes:
>
>>I would also like to know how common this is. I suspect the hardware is
>>all within spec and sending it back would only yield another that
>>behaves the same, and I would have lost a week of restoring everything.

> Check the hood around the CPU - if its loose it might be causing some of the
> noise. I also found a couple of our 4700's had a loose side case panel that
> was vibrating and generating a buzzing sound. When the panel is tightened up
> the noise was reduced.

Yes I do have a problem with a loose side panel, so I usually wedge
something between it and the desk (without blocking airflow). While
that's unacceptable for a new PC, that's not the source of my major
irritation.

> The 4700 has two drive bays in the front but you can no longer buy a dual
> disk 4700 from Dell's site last time I checked. My guess is they have some
> evidence that putting two SATA drives together like that is a bad thing to
> do - shake and bake!

Very interesting. A shame since I bought this machine to be a fake Tivo
and to edit video, and had planned to add a second huge disk.

> To make matters worse a series of 4600's nearby run faster, cooler, and make
> less noise. Arg!!

At work we have both Compaqs and Dells (optiplex 280) with P4 and SATA
that are quieter. And roomier inside.
March 10, 2005 7:31:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"EJ" <EJEJ@EJ.EJ> wrote in message
news:wnOXd.2$845.1@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> delboy wrote:
>> "EJ" <EJEJ@EJ.EJ> wrote in message
>> news:o BsXd.6068$CW2.5781@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>>
(snip)
both the same, however i didnt find it too annoying.
But my new vid card is going to have some work done on it this weekend, way
too loud.
dave
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 8:52:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"User N" <usern@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:D u6dnRoVbY23frLfRVn-pA@comcast.com...
>
> "S.Lewis" <stew1960@cover.bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:o eQXd.32818$%Y4.2014@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>>
>> "User N" <usern@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:TYGdncexYN22WLLfRVn-jg@comcast.com...
>>>
>>> "S.Lewis" <stew1960@cover.bellsouth.net> wrote in message
>>> news:uxOXd.32732$%Y4.16279@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>>>>
>>>> "User N" <usern@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> news:Yu-dnduUE7I6_7LfRVn-vQ@comcast.com...
>>>
>>>>> How many 4700s would that be?
>>>>
>>>> More than I can count.
>>>
>>> Hmmm, ok.
>>
>> Thanks. I make millions by posting bad information to newsgroups just
>> like this one. <sarcasm>
>
> Care to share some of the action? Apparently I have some potential ;-)
>
> Seriously, "hmmm, ok" merely reflects the fact that I was contemplating
> that consequences of what you said and acknowledging it. That you've
> seen alot of 4700s with CPU fans blowing in and none blowing out
> makes it more likely that is by design. Which would mean a) the final
> word from Dell, after two calls, was wrong, and b) I reversed the CPU
> fan for nothing and may have to go over and change it back. Well, we
> could make them come out and change it back. But that doesn't make
> me feel any better.



I'm more interested as to how you managed to pull the rubber grommets
holding the fan and actually get them back into place once the fan was
reversed :) 

In my experience, that can be a profanity-laden exercise if not done
properly - so teach me something. ?


Stew
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 12:10:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"S.Lewis" <stew1960@cover.bellsouth.net> writes:
>Could this be a Northwood versus Prescott issue? Thanks for the results.
>My Northwood feels younger already!

Yes.

Later

Mark Hittinger
bugs@pu.net
Anonymous
March 10, 2005 5:38:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.sys.pc-clone.dell (More info?)

"S.Lewis" <stew1960@cover.bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:JuWXd.12234$c72.9364@bignews3.bellsouth.net...

> I'm more interested as to how you managed to pull the rubber grommets
> holding the fan and actually get them back into place once the fan was
> reversed :) 
>
> In my experience, that can be a profanity-laden exercise if not done
> properly - so teach me something. ?

I applied some tension to the rubber rod (can't remember if the sides of the
fan were open and I pulled the rod with my thumb and middle finger, or had
to wedge something in there). Then I used a miniature flat head screw driver
to sequentially depress each of the barbs (IIRC, only 3 of the 4 really needed
it), while using my index finger to squish/cock the head and assure that none
of the barbs popped back out. Once the [main] barbs were started, the rod
pulled out easily. Reassembly was trivial... just insert the rod tip into the hole,
and with your finger tips or a pair of needle nose pliers, pull it the rest of the
way through until all the barbs are splayed. Maybe the thing just cooperated
with me, but it went fairly smoothly and none of the barbs was damaged. I
wouldn't want to reverse thousands of units though.
!