THGC Graphic Forum Graphic Card Buying Guide

coolsquirtle

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You guys want a revamp, I'll have a revamp

As oppose to the article created by Tom’s Hardware, This guide is more cut down to help gamer, or computer users to help with their Video Card purchase

First, you have to decide what type of user are you, so it is easier to narrow your selection. Here are a few types and recommendation.
Average Joe- You just want something that can display picture on your monitor and enjoy a little 2D tetris
(Please consider interrogated Graphics or Low end solution)
Gamer- You want to play games. (DUH)
(Your recommendation will be discussed later)
Professional- Graphic is your life and you make money with it
(Professional solution or maybe even Middle/High end will satisfy you)

Once you picked a category or still not sure, there is always the prime factor, money.

No matter if you’re the most hardcore player on earth, if you don’t have cash, you’re still stuck with Intel Extreme Graphics 3, that is why the buyer guide revolves the main issue, money. We call this C/P rating. Picking the best C/P rated card in each category is the best choice. Companies has also separate their line to four basic lineups

Low End- You are looking at about ($100-$200USD) at this range, the price will constantly change as well as the cards in the section. Gaming is possible but if will not make it a very enjoyable experience.
Predicted Performance with current games: (800x600 or 1024x768 max, none or low special effects, no AF or AA( enhancing graphics of gameplay) and it will cause more work for other parts of the computer)

Middle End- They are the biggest pie of the market, you can say the price will range from $200-$350 USD) the price will constantly change as well as the cards in the section. It is very capable of playing games and it is usually above what current games?required SPEC are nowadays.
Predicted Performance with current games: (1024x768, 1280x1024 (if supported by your monitor) (lower resolution are also supported), regular special effects, 4xAF or 2xAA will affect performance of game but will not injure overall experience if configured properly, games will be more graphics indenpendant)

High End- They are the dream cars of Graphics, what company fight over for the top speed crown, they range from ($350-$1000USD) They are made to kickass in games and they will provide the best performance one can want. Many card manufacturers also like to create more powerful versions of the card (water cooled, over clocked) which can increase the price of the video card, keep in mind, only pick what you are capable of purchasing, because Graphic Cards are highly replaceable.
Predicted Performance (1600x1200 (lower resolution are also supported) high special effects, full AF and AA and lag is history in most cases.

Special Use- these are special cards, they can cost up to $10000USD! They are “special?because they are design for a special purpose, like CAD or movie editing or 2D precision and exact Image Qualities. Only pick these card if you really need them. A lot of these cards don’t support gaming because they are made for a special purpose, not gaming.

Okay now you have a better idea of how much you can spend and what you’re looking for? Now let’s choose your Video Card. Oh wait! Before that! We have to find out if your computer can stick one of these bad boys in

There are three types of Graphic card slots
PCI- every computer have these, they are the earliest form for Graphic Cards, nowadays they are pretty much extinct. This guide will not focus on this. If you are not able to update to an AGP interface, you will have to look around for leftovers
Here are some last remaining PCI cards
nVidia
MX400 series
Ti4200 PCI version

ATi
Radeon 7000
Radeon 9000?

XGi
V3?

AGP- this is the most used slot at the moment, although it is being replaced by PCI-EX it will stay for a while, please look below for AGP cards. Also if you have an outdated Motherboard or an old computer, you have to find out if you AGP slot is not 3.3V because they are not supported with all the cards in this guide. Again they are outdated technology. If you have a current AGP slot then get picking!

PCI-Express- the new technology, the PCI-EX slots are x16 so they are longer. You can only find them if you just purchased your computer recently. Also note: some PCI-EX card will require a special power connector to connect to the cards, please assure you have a PCI-EX compatible Power Supply and Motherboard.

If you like to see what are the difference between them in depth, this is from priyajeet

AGP
The advantage of AGP over old PCI was increased bus speed/bandwidth. AGP has its own path way to communicate with the processor as well as to the memory whereas devices on the PCI bus have to share the 133 MB/s bandwidth allocated to it. Both the AGP (66 Mhz clock) and PCI Bus (33 Mhz clock) are on a 32 bit bus. So at 1x, AGP has double the bandwidth (266 MB/s). As it can transfer data multiple times per clock cycle, AGP 8x has ~2100MB/s of bandwith.

vs

PCIe or Nvidia's PCX (not PCI-X, see below)
PCI Express (not PCI-X) has an architecture that is serial based like the SATA while the old PCI is based upon a parallel architecture. So pin count reduces. Also the protocol is much like AGP. Devices do not share bandwidth. Theoritical bandwidth will be 250 MB/s per direction, roughly double the bandwidth of the current PCI and this is available to each device with PCI Express. The above will be the refernce lane x1. Extra lanes with bandwidth multiple of x1 can be added - x2, x4, x8, x12, x16 and x32. x16 is the new generation graphical bus interface. Low latency is also another goal of PCI Express. Nvidia, to be unique have misused the term PCX. It means PCI Express and not the specification below.

vs

PCI-X (Not PCI Express or Nvidia's PCX)
a.k.a PCI-X 2.0. You dont have to worry about this standard. It will not be used for graphics industry. Very few desktop systems support it. It is an acronym for PCI extended, an enhanced PCI bus. PCI-X is backward-compatible with existing PCI cards. It improves speed of PCI from 133 MBps to ~1 GBps. PCI-X was designed jointly by IBM, HP and Compaq to increase performance of high bandwidth devices, such as Gigabit Ethernet and Fibre Channel, and processors that are part of a cluster. It is similar to the old PCI architecture though with 64 bit bus and 66/133/266/533 Mhz clock. Do not confuse it with PCX, a term Nvidia uses for thie PCI Express cards.


Almost forgot! Technology! This guide is a buyer’s guide so I will not go far as to what the technology is. However current games uses Microsoft’s Direct X 9 or Open GL and SM 2.0b/3.0, they are basically what games are made by. New technology will make the card last longer because it will support more games. If your are updating your video card to play a game, make sure the card can take advantage of all the new technology coded into the game
Note: all video cards support Open GL.

GENERAL NOTE: you can notice only ATi and nVidia are in the guide, where’s XGI? S3? Well basically, they should be on the things never to buy list. Any card in this guide will be better than what other companies can offer? More performance for cheaper price? Please don’t fall for the trick, these cards are poorly designed as well as terrible support. Until they provide a noticeable competition and stability avoid them at all cost!

Low End

New Products

ATi Technology

Radeon X300 ($65-$100)
PCI-EXPESS
The basic line up of ATi
DX 9 support
SM 2.0

Radeon 9250 ($47-$100)
AGP
A refresh to the 9200 series which is the 8500 series
DX 8 support
SM 2.0

Radeon 9550($60-$125)
AGP
A slower version of the discontinued 9600series
DX 9 support
SM 2.0

nVidia Technology
FX5500 ($72-$135)
AGP
A refresh of FX5200
DX 9 support
SM 2.0

GeForce PCX 5300 ($88-$100)
PCI-EXPRESS
It is nVidia’s first line up of PCI-EX video cards. It uses the original FX5200 chip with nVidia’s bridge to transform it into a PCI-EX card.
DX9 support
SM 2.0

GeForce 6200 (Not Yet Released)
PCI-EXPRESS
It is the slowest of nVidia’s new 6 series (not the BMW)
DX9 support
SM3.0 support?

Discontinued Products

nVidia FX 5200
nVidia GeForce 4 MX series
ATi Radeon 7000 series
ATi Radeon 9000 series
ATi Radeon 8500 series

So which one is the best for me?
AGP -> you choices are FX5500 VS Radeon 9550 VS Radeon 9250. The FX series was quite disappointing, therefore I recommend
Radeon 9550 > Radeon 9250 > FX 5500

PCI-EX -> there hasn’t been a lot of benchmarks released to find out which is better so the result will come out later, however the GeForce 6200 or X300 is recommended because the PCX still uses the terrible FX series chips

Mainstream (Midend)

New Products

ATi Technology

Radeon X600 ($150-$233)
PCI-EXPRESS
Mainstream version for ATi¡¦s PCI-EXPRESS line-up. Think of this card as a 9600pro with PCI-EX
DX 9 support
SM2.0

Radeon X700 ($179-$219)
PCI-EXPRESS (possible AGP)
Toned down X800, main product in the mainstream line; Provide similar performance as the last generation high-end
DX 9 support
SM2.0

nVidia Technology Corp.

New Products
GeForce 6600
PCI-EXPRESS/AGP
The mainstream version based on the 6800. A direct target at the Radeon X700
DX 9 support
SM 3.0

GeForce FX 5700
AGP
Last generation mainstream card.
Direct X 9 support
SM 2.0

GeForce PCX 5700
PCI-EXPRESS
FX5700 with the HIS bridge, clock speed different
DX 9 support
SM 2.0

Discontinued Products
nVidia GeForce FX 5600
ATi Radeon 9600
ATi Radeon 9500

So which steals the performance Crown in this Sector

PCI-EXPRESS- there only has been in lab result so no winners yet :p

AGP: Still lack new generation video cards. For now, I would recommend Radeon 9600 over FX5700 due to overall performance.

NOTE: still waiting for newer videocard release, also, please read the high-end section to answer the question, ¡§why isn¡¦t 9800pro in here? It¡¦s the best bang for the buck right now!¡¨


More to come
Highend
Ram selection
Vendors
Tips and Tricks



RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
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GeForce 6800 Ultra--> The Way we thought FX 5800Ultra is meant to be played
THGC's resident Asian and nVboy :D<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Coolsquirtle on 11/15/04 10:47 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

GeneticWeapon

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Damn...lots of writing here.

I had better read through this when I wake up, as apposed to now, when I'm buzzed and sleepy:)


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GeneticWeapon

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I just thought of something....you have a tendancy(like I do) to disapear from the forums.

Did you ever stop and think about that?


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coolsquirtle

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as long as i dont disappear for longer than one product cycle its okay :D

RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
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GeneticWeapon

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Not true. Lot's of revisions between cycles.


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coolsquirtle

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maybe i can have a sub editor then :p


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GeneticWeapon

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:rolleyes:


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priyajeet

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dude, considering this to be a community, one gotta do stuff as a whole community. u just cant just come here one day, start off another thread saying this is a buyers guide. Its a gauranteed failure - considering the original guide isnt that popular among newcomers. Rather u might talk over this with spitfire. have a joint session and request everyone to be a part of this. I bet others will have lot to add.
if need be here are a bit of tit bits from me which u can ignore, ramp, flame, edit, destroy:

I posted this before too.

<b>AGP</b>
<font color=red>The advantage of AGP over old PCI was increased bus speed/bandwidth. AGP has its own path way to communicate with the processor as well as to the memory whereas devices on the PCI bus have to share the 133 MB/s bandwidth allocated to it. Both the AGP (66 Mhz clock) and PCI Bus (33 Mhz clock) are on a 32 bit bus. So at 1x, AGP has double the bandwidth (266 MB/s). As it can transfer data multiple times per clock cycle, AGP 8x has ~2100MB/s of bandwith.</font color=red>

<b><i>vs</i></b>

<b>PCIe or Nvidia's PCX (not PCI-X, see below)</b>
<font color=green>PCI Express (not PCI-X) has an architecture that is serial based like the SATA while the old PCI is based upon a parallel architecture. So pin count reduces. Also the protocol is much like AGP. Devices do not share bandwidth. Theoritical bandwidth will be 250 MB/s per direction, roughly double the bandwidth of the current PCI and this is available to each device with PCI Express. The above will be the refernce lane x1. Extra lanes with bandwidth multiple of x1 can be added - x2, x4, x8, x12, x16 and x32. x16 is the new generation graphical bus interface. Low latency is also another goal of PCI Express. Nvidia, to be unique have misused the term PCX. It means PCI Express and not the specification below.</font color=green>

<b><i>vs</i></b>

<b>PCI-X (Not PCI Express or Nvidia's PCX)</b>
<font color=blue>a.k.a PCI-X 2.0. You dont have to worry about this standard. It will not be used for graphics industry. Very few desktop systems support it. It is an acronym for PCI extended, an enhanced PCI bus. PCI-X is backward-compatible with existing PCI cards. It improves speed of PCI from 133 MBps to ~1 GBps. PCI-X was designed jointly by IBM, HP and Compaq to increase performance of high bandwidth devices, such as Gigabit Ethernet and Fibre Channel, and processors that are part of a cluster. It is similar to the old PCI architecture though with 64 bit bus and 66/133/266/533 Mhz clock. Do not confuse it with PCX, a term Nvidia uses for thie PCI Express cards.</font color=blue>

<A HREF="http://www.intelforums.net/viewtopic.php?p=7626" target="_new">This page has more for a layman</A>

:tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by priyajeet on 11/14/04 01:51 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

coolsquirtle

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dude, considering this to be a community, one gotta do stuff as a whole community. u just cant just come here one day, start off another thread saying this is a buyers guide. Its a gauranteed failure -

I did it before, why can't i do it now? The entire buyer's guide was done by me, so? Is that a big deal?
Please don't tell me what will work and what won't work.

Also team work doesn't work, we tried.

Also what you posted is useful, however, not necessary for a buyer's guide. I have a technical FAQ in mind too but it never worked out. This buyer guide provides more help to the people who wants to buy a video card, hence the name

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GeneticWeapon

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u just cant just come here one day, start off another thread saying this is a buyers guide.
You havent been here long enough to know what has taken place.

The original "buyers guide creation" thread was <b>Coolsquirtle's</b> brainchild in the first place.

Spitfire took the information from it, and had Fredi sticky it, under his own name.

Hence the reason why CS is pissed off, and doing all of this ranting.

Do I want a community Buyers Guide? = yes

But there are obstacles we need to overcome before we can make that happen.


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coolsquirtle

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okay let's drop this for now, I said i'd have a Version 2 here it is, i believe it surpassed what i had before. Please provide feedback. and Midend and Highend should come tom or Monday

However, i dont know what to use to measure performance here....I'm thinking Doom3 for now :p and HL2 and 3Dmarks2k5 later.

And maybe people can find me prices in different currency? (not just convert, like with their own price match system)

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GeneticWeapon

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okay let's drop this for now, I said i'd have a Version 2 here it is
Wow!.....you did all of the work for us!

We didnt even have to give you input or anything!....no discussions!

:lol:

Your missing the point of this whole thing fucktard.

There are quite a few people in this forum who would like to participate in this, and we arent going to have a recap of what happened last time.


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priyajeet

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well i cant argue on what i havent witnessed. but taking the word of u guys. if he did take it, steal it or whatever, then u have a right to remake it.

i'll help anyone.

:tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue:
 

priyajeet

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the reason i did the vs stuff, bcos a lot of oddballs (strangers) come and ask abt PCIe, whether they shld get it- if its any better - if not y - PCX - nvidias mispled term etc etc.

Oddballs on the irc do that also.

:tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue:
 

coolsquirtle

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hahah GW remember what happened last time?

this is what I'm thinking, i think this structure for a guide works... whoever has a different idea we can see if it'll work and you guys can say what to improve and I'll do it no problem. Also, we'll have people doing different parts

GW i think if you can write something about what AF and AA does to games and the impact (not in depth)

Someone can do a CAD section and a 2D section for the Special part
as well as AIWs and their functions etc. Also the local price idea. Anyone else have input! I'm asking for some input!


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GeneticWeapon

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He simply had a sticky made out of an ongoing "idea post" that everyone participated in.

There should have been a vote to see who's name it would go under, but he kinda just took it apon himself to have the work stickied in his name.

Those were more <i>chaotic</i> times back then though.

Having Coolsquirtle be the keeper of the sticky wouldnt have been any better though :lol:


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priyajeet

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Well if there is a fight for the name i say - put it under GNU license - free to fu*ck around with. No credit to any particula person - i prefer this even if i took part in it and Mr X did not.

Also when u write abt AA/AF - u can give D3 examples - all that forced vs app pref thingy.

:tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue:
 

GeneticWeapon

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BTW....I dont plan on contributing to the buyers guide at all.

But I am going to plead with GGA(somehow) to contribute greatly to this project.

Is he skiing right now?


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coolsquirtle

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added priyajeet's part see if it works... and I'm gonna learn how to bold text tom :D

Well, back then people weren't interested, i had to point names to make people participe and they still didn't

GRAPE
UFO
DHLUCKE
FLAMETHROWER!

lol :p

GW shut up and give some input

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coolsquirtle

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I dont think its ski season yet

and you lazyass GW

Credit will be give on top of FAQ....just wait until tom when i learn how to bold!

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priyajeet

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good guide
<A HREF="http://www.tweaktown.com/document.php?dType=guide&dId=601&dPage=1" target="_new">http://www.tweaktown.com/document.php?dType=guide&dId=601&dPage=1</A>

<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=415779#415779" target="_new">This</A> was an earlier [petition for a new guide by lazer.

:tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by priyajeet on 11/14/04 03:11 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

GeneticWeapon

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<pre>In case you havent figured it out</pre><p>[ b ]text[ / b ] = <b>bold</b> [ i ]text[ / i ] = <i>italic</i>

without the spaces

Credit will be give on top of FAQ..

This project is not going to be stickied under <b>your</b> name :tongue:


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Spitfire_x86

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Make it quick. Apart from revamp, the guide also needs routine update.

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Spitfire_x86

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Hey didn't I give everyone proper credit? Since there's already 4 people involved with the guide, it's already a community guide. All it needs is a major update.

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GeneticWeapon

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It doesnt sound like a community guide, when you're telling the people who want to update it to "<b>make it quick</b>"

Why make it quick?....why not "<i>take your time and make it good</i>?"

Are you tired of dealing with it?


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