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HL2 Graphic Feedback

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November 17, 2004 11:30:38 AM

I know this has nothing to do with directly hardware, but my has anyone else played HL2? It blows Doom3 away! I can't believe how good the game turned out. The graphics are outstanding.

I am playing with a AMD FX51, Geforce 6800 GT w/256, 2GB Cosair DDR 400, 74GB WD 10k rpm SATA drives.

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November 17, 2004 11:37:54 AM

Ill have to disagree, sorry.

Xeon

<font color=red>Post created with being a dickhead in mind.</font color=red>
<font color=white>For all emotional and slanderous statements contact THG for all law suits.</font color=white>
a b U Graphics card
November 17, 2004 11:52:37 AM

I think the graphics are great. Personally I like the looks of HL2 far better than doom 3, which is more a dislike of the dark cramped environment than an IQ comaprison. D3 was stunning at times, but HL2 impresses me more also.


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November 17, 2004 12:07:18 PM

I have to say the lighting and shading on Doom3 are more impressive, but the environment and characters are way nicer in HL2. Believe me there was not bigger fan of Doom3 than me. HL2 is extremely impressive. The game play definately blows Doom3 away. The physics on the engine rock. I love how everything is interactive.
November 17, 2004 12:20:37 PM

I again will have to disagree.

Xeon

<font color=red>Post created with being a dickhead in mind.</font color=red>
<font color=white>For all emotional and slanderous statements contact THG for all law suits.</font color=white>
a b U Graphics card
November 17, 2004 12:27:05 PM

/\
*
*
*

Working for D3 PR team. :tongue:


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
a b U Graphics card
November 17, 2004 12:33:59 PM

Well, I find them hard to compare.

To me there was more detail in D3, but it was so dark that is was easier to take shortcuts. HL2 is impressive for the sheer scale and diversity of maps, detail, etc. D3 was of course impressive lighting, and took advanatge of it's close proximity to focus on more details which it could do far easier with it confined spaces.

I think the graphics are outstanding in both and the only reason I'd have to say HL2 is better is because I always had to have my damn flashlight on to see the graphics in D3 which kept leaving me open for attack.

Gameplay sofar definitely HL2, Graphics, couldn't pick a straight-up winner yet because HL2 has simply equalled D3 in what I've seen sofar. But of course that may be my 'weak' R9600Pro of course, maybe it's rendering in PS1.1 like the FXs? :evil: 


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
November 17, 2004 12:41:47 PM

I think maybe he is. I was also a big fan of Doom3 and I bought it the day it came out. It was really fun for the first couple of hours or so, but then it became boring and I realized the AI all follows the exact same attack patterns every time and I literally could turn a corner and fire and kill a imp before it could even scream all the way. It also became repeditive untile the last couple of levels. The outdoors looks absolutely amazing and many of the indoors to. But over all it looks a bit exaggerated and not true to life(except the dust and the bump mapping on the structures outdoors). Multi sucks.
Then I got HL2 yesterday(16th), I was ready to burn the freakin game!! I had to wait 2 and 1/2 hours just to unlock a game that I paid for!!! before I could even play it!! But after i did that and started playing it was amazing!! the bump mapping on the head crabs is way beyond D3, you just don't see it all unless you look closely. It is way more detailed. The interactivity is beyond any other game out there, it was so satisfying to fling rusty saw blades and cut the zombies in half, you can't do that in D3, they all just dicintigrate and you can't actually pick stuff up. The hover boat down the river was really fun, jumping high into the air dodging the combine soldier and even nocking the supports out from their wooden platforms and watching them fall into the murky radioactive abyss. So far I've played only about 5 hours, but i can't wait to play more!! And the graphics keep getting better as the game goes on, using more effects and such. thats my frames on the matter. Play both games if you haven't, you'll come back to HL2 again and again. Plus it runs faster, HL2 is running high with 2xaa on a Ath. Xp1900 with 9800 P at about 60 fps average while D3 only runs at 35~40 at 800x600(but still looks verry impressive). the source engine is better designed in ever aspect. I'm pretty sure they could use bmp mappin on every texture if they wanted to but it would not look as true to life. The use it when it accurately represents a surface not just because it is eye candy.

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November 17, 2004 12:51:51 PM

I agree. Doom 3 hides most of it's graphics in darkness, but that does fit the tone of the game.

"A delayed game will eventually come out, a bad game is bad forever."
-Shigeru Miyamoto
a b U Graphics card
November 17, 2004 1:18:58 PM

And you see I played about 1 hrs worth before going to bed, so I haven't gottent to those points yet, just popping cops sofar.

I really can't say much until I've played HL2 more, but the game play has been far better so far, and AI is ok, but I can still peek out and head shot people pretty easy sofar.

However yes, the whole install was an excercise in how to get someone to return the game before they've even played it!


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
November 17, 2004 1:25:58 PM

My take:

The D3 engine has a visual edge - especially with shadows and a unified lighting model - but the engine is very limited to dingy indoor scenes in that game, so I'm not sure the D3 engine could pull off the diversity that the Source engine can, using varied outdoor and indoor environments.

Aside from the engine, the second aspect of how the game looks is Art direction. That one's completely subjective. The HL team chose to concenrate their efforts on using LOTS of lighting/shader effects (you immediately see all sorts of refractions and other shader effects in the game), where the D3 art team chose to capitalize on the spooky shadowyness of their game. There's no right or wrong.

But technically, you have to ask yourself; if you imported all of the Doom3 models and levels into the Source engine and made it playable, would it look as good as Doom3? The answer I think is no.
As for the opposite... if you took the HL2 models and levels and imported them into the D3 engine, would it look better?... the answer is, not sure. We haven't yet seen what the D3 engine can do in bright outdoor environments.

My hunch is that it wouldn't be able to handle bright outdoor environments as good as Far Cry or HL2, but we'll see. I'm sure Quake4 will have some indication for us.

As far as gameplay, after playing them both... well, HL2 gave Doom3 a swift crowbar to the face.
I don't even know if there's even any debate there.



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November 17, 2004 1:53:26 PM

a crow bar is waiting just for u, watchout when u leave ur home :tongue:

:tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue:
November 17, 2004 3:01:59 PM

That's more a designer issue than fundamental limitation. The guys at id have said before that the engine is perfectly fine for outdoor maps, but ironically the game takes place almost entirely indoors. Quake 4 has a lot more outdoor activity than Doom.

<A HREF="http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/landing/landingIndex.jsp..." target="_new">DumbLand</A>
November 17, 2004 10:24:00 PM

Can I bring a BFG?

Xeon

<font color=red>Post created with being a dickhead in mind.</font color=red>
<font color=white>For all emotional and slanderous statements contact THG for all law suits.</font color=white>
November 18, 2004 12:02:13 AM

yup ! u can. but i ll be close to u, so better watchout - u might blow urself also into peices. For u the best weapon might be the chainsaw ! but then again, i ll have more speed, crowbar being lighter. And ur motor will die on u :tongue: Picture a crow bar stuck in ur skull :tongue:

:tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue:
November 18, 2004 12:05:28 AM

oh everybody BTW this is the ultimate reason y HL2 pawns D3:

Its fu*cking possible to use a flash light with a gun !
The end. :cool: :tongue: :cool: :tongue: :cool: :tongue: :cool: :tongue:

:tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue:
November 18, 2004 12:33:23 AM

So you can handle a mini gun and hold your flashlight?

I do agree though it would have been perfered to have it equiped on the rifles or just have the handgun and flashlight combo available.

Xeon

<font color=red>Post created with being a dickhead in mind.</font color=red>
<font color=white>For all emotional and slanderous statements contact THG for all law suits.</font color=white>
November 18, 2004 1:24:36 AM

i think its gotto do with the hev suit he has. inbuilt or something.

:tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue:
November 18, 2004 1:40:03 AM

Ya there we go, good old marine he aint no pussy dont need no suit to keep him alive. Med kits and shot gun ammo is all he needs.

Xeon

<font color=red>Post created with being a dickhead in mind.</font color=red>
<font color=white>For all emotional and slanderous statements contact THG for all law suits.</font color=white>
November 18, 2004 3:08:31 AM

IMO playing with a flashlight in DOOM III would have killed the suspense anyways, but at a price of frustration whenever we have to switch.

--
<font color=blue>Ede</font color=blue>
November 18, 2004 3:09:35 AM

You've hit the nail on the head quite well there Cleeve.

Both games employ different ways to show off "best graphics".

--
<font color=blue>Ede</font color=blue>
November 18, 2004 3:11:54 AM

Quote:
But over all it looks a bit exaggerated and not true to life(except the dust and the bump mapping on the structures outdoors).

When are you ever going to get into your head the fact that DOOM III is not even meant to be true to life, but to create an immersion into its own world?

Freakin' hell, do you see everyday those dark halls with all the weird tanks with numbers on them, and large rooms with controls for the entire facility's electricity?

Stop comparing bump mapping on this game to HL2, it just DOESN'T work for comparison.

--
<font color=blue>Ede</font color=blue>
a b U Graphics card
November 18, 2004 5:37:21 AM

Silly debate, but I found this pretty funny;

Quote:
Ya there we go, good old marine he aint no pussy dont need no suit to keep him alive. Med kits and shot gun ammo is all he needs.

No, he doesn't need a suit,just <A HREF="http://www.planetdoom.com/images/screenshots/hi-res-tra..." target="_new">Body Armour</A>! :tongue:

Kevlar coated Pu$$y! Just look at him all timid looking in the camera. :lol: 

Of corse they're just computer generated characters so all they reallly need is flowing electrons and silicon. :evil: 


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
November 18, 2004 11:48:20 AM

Quote:
No, he doesn't need a suit,just Body Armour!

He still aint no pussy.

Xeon

<font color=red>Post created with being a dickhead in mind.</font color=red>
<font color=white>For all emotional and slanderous statements contact THG for all law suits.</font color=white>
November 18, 2004 1:34:07 PM

Quote:
That's more a designer issue than fundamental limitation.

We'll have to see, sweatlaser... I've heard deveopers say that Doom3's unified lighting model may not lend itself to bright outdoor areas.

Then again, Raven is a very talented software developing team. They'll probably figure something out. :) 

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November 18, 2004 2:46:25 PM

From what I've seen and read of HL2 the size and scale of it don't even come close the FarCry which I've been playing for about 2 weeks now. It's wicked hard and I love the fact that it's non-linear. I can "go all over the map" on that game. No rails... I love it.

Da Worfster

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November 18, 2004 2:50:38 PM

I agree that Far Cry has a huge plus with the freedom on the maps. But overall, I have more fun with HL2.

"A delayed game will eventually come out, a bad game is bad forever."
-Shigeru Miyamoto
November 18, 2004 4:30:27 PM

I personally did not like FarCry. e.g. The freedom. The game has set objectives that are mostly in A then B then C order. As for the path... there are limitations. There are a lot of hills to steep to get up, although in real life you could scale. So yeah, there may be some different paths, but you cannot just totally cut through stuff either... still fairly linear, but it gives you the allusion of choice.

I have found HL2 to be linear, but masked very well. You have pretty clear objectives that the resistance gives you, and the right path has always been very clear--but not in the way of "this sucks" but more of the "This makes a lot of sense to complete my task". The puzzles are logical and great, and the "get key to open door sequences" are very intelligent (like going to a control tower to open a secure door that is closing off a path type stuff). The way the HL2 story is told makes it seem less linear also. You are part of the story, and the interaction with the NPCs is excellent. I felt really bad last night seeing some die :( 

HL2 is a very 'different' FPS... very similar to the first. And what it is is a action puzzle/platforming game superimposed over a FPS interface--all the time telling the story from the FPS perspective. The production value is off the charts, and the lack of divergent story/options is made up by the insane interactivity with your environments and characters.

There are always limits of a game, I think HL2 does a good job of pushing the limits in the areas they set out to and refining the core linear aspects. While it is just my opinion, I think the game is awesome--best SP game I have played since ZOoT. But people's tastes differ and I am sure some will hate HL2 (just like some think it is too hard and others too easy). The gaming community is so large these days--in a good way--that no game will ever make everyone happy all the time. Which is fine :) 
November 18, 2004 5:13:42 PM

Quote:
playing with a flashlight in DOOM III would have killed the suspense

I abso-frickin'-lutely agree with that. Doom is trying to work to an effect of fear and uncertainty, and to stick a player in a pitch-black room with a flashlight <i>and</i> a gun would contradict the formula. Dark areas usually only have imps (and occasionally zombies), because their fireballs generate light and you get your little chance to pop 'em. The level designers knew not to put three pinky demons in a pitch black room, because it would throw the difficulty out of balance. I also love how when you fire your gun you get that one frame that illuminates nearby objects (like zombies).

My attitude is that if the atmosphere of terror and the sheer visceral thrills don't enthrall the gamer, then don't play it, simple as that. It's not CounterStrike. I think the game would have lost a lot if the player could just simply run around pitch-black areas gunning every enemy down without any sort of suspense involved.

<A HREF="http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/landing/landingIndex.jsp..." target="_new">DumbLand</A><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by sweatlaserxp on 11/18/04 02:16 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
November 18, 2004 6:45:37 PM

Ok those dudes who havent played/playing HL2, heres the deal -

The game is funny too.

You can take a shoe lying here n there and throw it at a cop. And look at the idiot chasing u. then when he turns his back take a bottle and break it on him, he'll come after you again.

Similarly if u hit somebody else - they'l ask u to "cut it off" and lines like that.

Stare at alex - she catches u and makes a remark :wink:

Early stage has a small playground with a swing and a merry go around. Hop on the swing and play around a bit. Hop ion the merry go around - run it - and see how centrifugal forces act upon you.

And there are funny sarastic lines in the game. For eg: Gordon is asked to flip a switch and then barney gives u a kinda golf clap - makes a remark - wow, your PHd from MIT really helped ! - flipping the switch.

Ok, then there was a situation where i was taking a bike and hitting people wiith it.

Then at a time, u had to jump on a higher platfor u couldnt but there was a barrel lying there with a board on it - forming like a see saw. you had to find bricks and throw it on the other side, so that the platform tilts and lets u jump up.

This is the best game i have played !

:tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue:
November 19, 2004 11:32:23 AM

Heres my opinion on Half Life 2 in relation to the other latest games.

Doom 3 was a awsome technology demo and a horrible all round game with a general gaming experience that left me checking my wallet even though I got the game for free.

Far Cry was a even better technology demo and as a all round game actually manage to impress me and suck me in, but the feelings didnt last that long. It didnt have the depth and the scope to draw me into another world.

Half Life 2, It might not have the best graphics or the best AI, but this game has sucked me in and I feel like im playing a part right in a big name movie, Ive honestly never really felt like this before about a game, and I havnt played enough to know if its going to last or not, but I hope it does.

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November 19, 2004 12:24:09 PM

HL2 definatly has the best AI I've seen to date. The soldiers will duck behind any nearby obstacle to reload, position to get you into a crossfire, even the way they climb down a wall.

One thing I have noticed, and although I don't know if its a graphics setting or a problem with the Source engine. When there is a soldier in the water, you can shoot him and he moves realistically, but there is no blood? Also, you can walk right over top of him and it has no effect.

Other than that, the game is spectacular.


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:redface: <font color=red>My wife says I suffer from premature ejaculation...I don't remember suffering<font color=red> :wink:
November 19, 2004 1:40:08 PM

To say that Fary Cry is a better tech. demo than Doom is foolish. The only reason why Far Cry is impressive is that it has pretty water, elaborate foliage, and long draw distances. Otherwise Doom 3 is miles ahead of Far Cry in terms of technology.

<A HREF="http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/landing/landingIndex.jsp..." target="_new">DumbLand</A>
November 19, 2004 1:55:00 PM

Maybe technically, if you break it down doom did more, but imo farcry's technology looks way more impressive and actually does a great job of drawing you into its own world. Wow doom, a dark hallway with shadows, Wow Farcry, a beautiful tropical archipelago and that fandangled stuff called.... AI.


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November 19, 2004 2:15:21 PM

HL has pretty good AI as a matter of fact. The only reason people say it doesnt have that great an AI, bcos they comapre it to FarCry in which the AI was over sensitive. Heres the thing - if someone from 1 mile away shoots me accurately I should be able to shoot back. Far Cry doesnt allow that - one has to have sharp eyes to do it. Thats not realistic AI. HL2 has more down to earth kinda AI. You cant shoot them accurately if you keep firing, and vice versa. What I remember hearing a rumor - HL2 action gameplay has been adapted from Counter Strike simulations whenrin real people play ! Also you can see them hide, duck, run into a passageway and wait for you to come there !!! They have both defensive and offensive strategies. Forming an attack patern - ie not crowding all in 1 place so that i can bomb them. Hell, I couldnt even bmb more than 1 guy at a time that too with 2-3 bombs. They run like hell if they see a grenade.

The only thing I didnt like abt the AI part - they should have made the game HARDER. I am playing medium level and it still feels easy - maybe the Hard level is exponentially hard ?? But they could have made it harder.

BTW, i luc the 357 magnum. See the recoil in there.

:tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue:
November 19, 2004 2:21:17 PM

FarCry better than D3 for a tech demo - u must be kidding. D3 is way better !

:tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue:
November 19, 2004 3:06:05 PM

Dont ask me if im kidding I thought doom 3 should have been a commercial instead of a game.

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November 19, 2004 5:22:44 PM

so its a better demo - u agree

:tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue:
November 19, 2004 5:45:35 PM

About that easy-hard level of HL2. It is too easy even in hard. I've played it for a few hours in only three days and I'm way past haf the game allready. One of the easiest game I ever played. But It is great fun...
They should make an update with unrealistic hard=)
November 19, 2004 8:28:18 PM

D3 sucks.

If you find it entertaining then you are very easily amused. I had about as much fun with pong...no wait...I had a lot more fun with pong.

HL2 so far is extremely fun, plus i think its much spookier than D3. I did think that the airboat levels were a bit on the long side though.

"Who is General Failure, and why is he reading my drive?"
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November 19, 2004 9:22:31 PM

1st - we were talking of the tech demo, not the entire gameplay.

2nd -
Quote:
HL2 so far is extremely fun

aye, no doubt

Quote:
plus i think its much spookier than D3.

ok, whatever. U gotta re-evaluate that.

:tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue:
November 19, 2004 10:01:18 PM

I don't know about that. Doom3 is so damn dark, but i was truely impressed with Mars outside with its swirling dust. When I'm in dark places in HL2 the graphics don't stand out as much just like doom3. Its just that HL2 spends alot time outdoors in the sunlight that makes it more of a graphical power display of the source engine than doom3 was for the new doom engine.
November 19, 2004 11:10:34 PM

This doesnt have much to do with the subject of the original post, but of the 3 games (HL2, D3, FarCry), FarCry has the best sound imo. When playing the game, it feels like you are in a movie. Even shooting pistol sounds great. HL2 and D3 are just ok --- well maybe its because I havent played hl2 much yet. I'm not sure if anyone cares about sound at all, but out of all the games I've played, FarCry has the best sound.


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November 20, 2004 4:47:55 AM

"D3 sucks."

Agreed.

"If you find it entertaining then you are very easily amused. I had about as much fun with pong...no wait...I had a lot more fun with pong."

Agreed, not many people know this, but Carmack actually ripped off the AI for the ball in pong and used it as the core base for his AI scripts in Doom III.

"HL2 so far is extremely fun, plus i think its much spookier than D3. I did think that the airboat levels were a bit on the long side though."

I agree, the only creepy things about doom 3 were not being able to see anything, wow very scary. Half Life 2 actually has some creepy ass parts without having to make your screen opaque. And I couldnt agree more on the airboat levels, at first it was cool then it was like, ok lets go, gettin old. That ravenhome town or whatever the hell it was called was very creepy indeed. After coming out of the first tunnel and just taking that place in it was like, um, I dont wanna go in here, It took me and Gordon a minute to build up the courage....



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November 20, 2004 5:04:52 AM

Quote:
I've heard deveopers say that Doom3's unified lighting model may not lend itself to bright outdoor areas.

What exactly does that unified lighting model do in PROs and CONs? I can tell there's already a CON to what seemed to be a PRO of the game's engine.

--
<font color=blue>Ede</font color=blue>
November 20, 2004 5:08:22 AM

Quote:
I abso-frickin'-lutely agree with that.

Finally someone else who agrees.
I like to try to find the positive in something. It helps me accept it and enjoy it. In Doom III, though I, as anyone who played it, experienced the occasional annoying "I really needed a flashlight here while shooting!" situation, it did not deter me from continuing to play with a scared feeling.

Quote:
I also love how when you fire your gun you get that one frame that illuminates nearby objects (like zombies).

I can't even remember that one hehe. I do remember the original DOOM had that though, but a very simple bright frame.

Quote:
My attitude is that if the atmosphere of terror and the sheer visceral thrills don't enthrall the gamer, then don't play it, simple as that. It's not CounterStrike. I think the game would have lost a lot if the player could just simply run around pitch-black areas gunning every enemy down without any sort of suspense involved.

Well said. We seem to agree a lot lately. :wink:

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<font color=blue>Ede</font color=blue>
November 20, 2004 5:11:51 AM

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To say that Fary Cry is a better tech. demo than Doom is foolish. The only reason why Far Cry is impressive is that it has pretty water, elaborate foliage, and long draw distances. Otherwise Doom 3 is miles ahead of Far Cry in terms of technology.

A better way to put it would be: Far Cry is to tropical paradise as DOOM III is to science fiction.

But I do think DOOM III has the wins on it. Just the lighting alone justifies its lead.

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<font color=blue>Ede</font color=blue>
November 20, 2004 5:13:16 AM

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Wow doom, a dark hallway with shadows,

Yeah but you're failing to realize some people DO see that as a means to get immersed.

I do feel nervous playing in DOOM's levels. No matter how often I've been in those same places, the thing just freaks me out. Perhaps you were never left alone in a dark hall with shadows appearing in real life... :eek: 

:tongue:

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<font color=blue>Ede</font color=blue>
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