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Nvidia is faster tthan ATI had hoped in HL2..

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November 19, 2004 8:11:20 PM

For those of you who have Nvidia and are worried that your cards will be quite a bit slower have no fear. go to hardocp, these are just preliminary, but the 6800's are just as fast as the X800's, sort of like the D3 situartion, except the X800 Pro does not lead the GT because of its pipeline disadvantage.

P4 2.6c@3 / 1GB OCZ DDR533 / Abit IC7-Max3 /
BFG Geforce 6800 GT @ 410/1100 /
Baracuda 7200.7 120 GB SATA / Lian-Li PC-65 Case
/ SyncMaster 700nf Monitor / 3DMark03-12100
November 19, 2004 9:29:21 PM

OK, thats good, but dont get ur hopes high.
[H] timedemos were level long = not a good way to test.
This has been explained by Terry (catalyst maker) in their [H]forums.
See the thread.

:tongue: <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/priyajeet/fing.jpg" target="_new"><i><font color=red>Very funny, Scotty.</font color=red><font color=blue> Now beam down my clothes.</font color=blue></i></A> :tongue:
November 20, 2004 1:49:42 AM

That is true, but the Nvidia cards are proving to run the game quite well, similar situation as in Doom 3 except reversed, ATi leads by about 10% in HL2 and Nvidia leads by about 10% in D3.

P4 2.6c@3 / 1GB OCZ DDR533 / Abit IC7-Max3 /
BFG Geforce 6800 GT @ 410/1100 /
Baracuda 7200.7 120 GB SATA / Lian-Li PC-65 Case
/ SyncMaster 700nf Monitor / 3DMark03-12100
Related resources
November 20, 2004 1:58:26 AM

I just looked at the Anandtech one, for those of you who want to know the performance between the top modles it appears that the XT is about 10% faster in medium res and up to 19% faster in highest res(the XT v Ultra)
the X800 V the GT is different the GT is faster at higher res and about tyed at medium res.


P4 2.6c@3 / 1GB OCZ DDR533 / Abit IC7-Max3 /
BFG Geforce 6800 GT @ 410/1100 /
Baracuda 7200.7 120 GB SATA / Lian-Li PC-65 Case
/ SyncMaster 700nf Monitor / 3DMark03-12100
November 20, 2004 3:17:03 AM

canal 9
1600x1200 4xAA,8xAF

x800 XT PE 56.1
6800 Ultra 33.7

that's almost a 70% increase

I'd have to agree, nvidia is much, MUCH faster than ATI had hoped for

thanks for the link
November 20, 2004 4:22:13 AM

If I entered partnership with a company to push my product, id hope my product ran better than Joe Schmo's. Radeons might run it better, but my cards still having no trouble getting me threw the game.

I think its funny most of the people making big deals about whats doing better, the top radeon cards or the top nvidia cards, are using 150 dollar 3 year old cards. I would be more worried about making sure I could run hl2 at all.......

Asus p4c800 Deluxe,1 Gig Mushkin PC3200 Dual Channel Level II V2,Pentium 4 3.0 512k 800fsb HT, Thermaltake Xaser III, Thermaltake Spark 7+, Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS Platinum Pro, eVGA GeForce 6800 GT
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
November 20, 2004 5:41:22 AM

Re-read the [H] review. Most test were CPU limited, move to 6xAA/16xAF and the XT-PE is faster than the Ultra OC at 4xAA (SS or MS) in the 'Coast demo', and it's over twice as fast as nV's 6xAA or 8xAA (which doesn't show any better image quality) in all the test.

That's pretty significant when you get to the point of what is max playable settings;

X800XT-PE 1600x1200 6xAA/16xAF
GF6800UOC 1600x1200 4xAA(MS only)/16xAF

So just like D3 it's a level of quality difference. Either dumb down the resolution or dumb down the settings.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
November 20, 2004 8:53:03 AM

Seems to me this has all been a bit contrived. Correct me if I'm wrong naturally, but surely if ATI and Valve were in some sort of "close contact" when the game was being developed, then both such things as the shader codes (amongst other code) AND the latest Catalyst drivers would be optimised for ATI cards running the game. Not much nVidia can do about any biased shader code for their cards, except maybe have a moan behind the scenes to the developers and meanwhile address the issue as best they can with a future optimised driver release. After all, apart from shader 3, the two cards seem to have about the same horsepower. Or am I missing something that's beyond my knowledge base here?
a b U Graphics card
November 20, 2004 1:19:38 PM

Thankfully, there are sure to be many more reviews to come. SO far This time around, I put less importance on [H]'s review and more on Anand and Firing Squad. Why? Because if [H] recorded their timedemos on a whole level, things will be CPU limited and even out. On my R9800 Pro, I am able to play at 1280x1024 High (no AA/AF). Ocassionally I see framerates in the 40's, Then there are long spells that are well into triple digits up to 189 FPS. Now if 10 seconds of CPU limited 180 fps are average in with 10 seconds of GPU limited 50 fps, what happens to the average. All cards start to even out as they did in [H]'s review. Anyway, look at the other sites, and compare the max playable settings and you'll see that the 6800U does not come close to the X800XT. Firingsquad even shows some timedemos that the X800Pro can beat out the 6800U.

Basically, Youu'll get nice framerates and high details/resolutions on any of the new cards whether NV/ATI, as HL2 is very cpu limited up to a point. You have to push those settings until you see the cards space themselves, when this gets done the X800XT is on top. Now, this will only be during certain parts of the game, but if you have a 6800U cranked too high, you'll get unsatifactory framerates during those times, ruining the gaming experience. ie. so the 6800U should get turned down just a bit compared to the X800XT. I'd like to see [H] give their normal Fraps fps graphs, which would show if one card nose dived below the other at times. The Lows are what matter really. Anyway, HL2 looks amazing at 1280x1024 High, I can't imagine getting these framerates and using 1600x1200 6XAA/16XAF. Must look incredible.


ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 1GB Corsair XMS 4000 Pro Series, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
November 20, 2004 1:25:08 PM

ATi had about a week of testing with HL2 to optimize their driver (4.12b, which kills 4.11). nVidia was offered at least 5 days and took 2 for their driver (it shows, 67.02 isn't noticably faster than 66.93). As for the partnership, it was merely that they made work as best it could on ATi hardware (with less effort to code for nV). I HIGHLY doubt they would code the game AGAINST nV, it just happened that they optimized it for ATi (ain't nothin wrong wit dat!). The same thing was done for D3 (just toward nV).

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
November 20, 2004 6:42:55 PM

Exactly, and that's what I'm offering here. Really it's not surprising.

Like I said in another thread you can expect nV to change the situation the way ATI did, but it's an unknown commodity as to whether they will bring parity, surpass ATI or stay well below the ATIs. The AA issue however has show itself in othe games, and the 4Xss and 6x & 8x comined mods kill performance, and look no better than ATI's mode, so that will likely never change.

But you can expect the benchmarks to change simply for the PR sake (hey look at ATI's scramble after D3). The thing people are forgetting is that the game plays fine on Both top-end platforms, sure you have one tiny small specific area where you can see a substantial gap, however really it's not a serious fault. Perhaps is should be made much of simply to offset the overexageration of the D3 results (as if once again we have only one game in gaming [really silly]).

The bigger issue will be the mid range cards because those will hit the wall long before max res + max AA/AF, and you may see some more realistic differences. In that case if one card runs at 1280x1024 with AA/AF and the other card cannot run any AA/AF or has to run a lower resolution, then it would be more of an issue. Right now it's more about numbers and PR, both are capable cards. Of course results like this warrant some statements in The Buyer's Guide like there were after D3 :evil:  .

Hopefully some people like FiringSquad will investigate the new and old mid-range cards.

<A HREF="http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/half-lif..." target="_new">EDIT, X-bit's got a good look at the midrange too</A>, also added below.

The CPU shootout definitely made me think a new CPU/MOBO is needed now. Maybe picking up an AMD2800+ for 100 buck would be a good plan if the new mobos are a while off, but that's another story/section.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by TheGreatGrapeApe on 11/20/04 04:05 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
November 20, 2004 8:09:18 PM

That makes sense, at least Nvidia got it right this time around with the 6800's, they are just as fast as the X800's. From what I've seen though the GT in almost all benchies is right on the heals of the X800 and in other games where pixel sharders are very highly used the GT pulls ahead by a noticeable margine. Maybe valve and Nvidia can work togather a bit more to improve the NV performance. My title is not saying that Nvidia is fastest, its just stateing that the NV cards(new ones) are not like the FX cards and run the game very well. I can run max everything at 1024x768 with 4xAA and never go below 60 fps through the entire game. It is simply a matter of optamization, if it were reversed(meaning Nvidia optamized then the NV cards would be ahead).

P4 2.6c@3 / 1GB OCZ DDR533 / Abit IC7-Max3 /
BFG Geforce 6800 GT @ 410/1100 /
Baracuda 7200.7 120 GB SATA / Lian-Li PC-65 Case
/ SyncMaster 700nf Monitor / 3DMark03-12100
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
November 20, 2004 8:57:02 PM

It's not so much a question of opitmizations, except for maybe driver optimization by ATI&nV. D3 played better on nV hardware because they built it with that in mind though, but to some extent the nV hardware was also built with D3 in mind. Valve said they used primarily ATI hardware (not like they never played on nV hardware), so it makes sense that straight out of the box it plays overall best there. Let's be real Valve wants this to play damn good on both platforms.

nV had it's shader replacements there right out of the box with D3, ATI had to add them later (not that they alone would ever make up for the way D3 is geared to the nV architecture), so right out of the gate it was a far larger lead than it ended up as. nVidia will likely do better, but it's not a question of Valve optimizing as much as nV now has to make their drivers work better just like ATI made their drivers work better going from 4.11->4.12.

Xbit showing big deltas as well, so the smaller gaps of [H] aren't showing up elsewhere;
<A HREF="http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/half-lif..." target="_new">http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/half-lif...;/A>

And it's certain that this is far from over.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
a b U Graphics card
November 20, 2004 9:28:04 PM

Hey thx, hadn't seen that x-bit reviw yet. Another site that seems to suggest ATI is winning this battle for now.

Wish the R9800 Pro and 9600 Pro as well as a GF4 Ti would have been in it, but otherwise very good info.

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 1GB Corsair XMS 4000 Pro Series, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
November 20, 2004 10:21:30 PM

My pov has been that the X800 had better potential then the 6800. It is clearer still.

<font color=red><pre>\\//__________________________________
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre><p></font color=red>
November 21, 2004 12:25:54 AM

[H] didn't turn reflect to all instead of world...

[H] also timedemoed large chunks full of CPU limited portions that really lowered the delta between nV and ATi...

[H]'s forums are also flipping a shi|, saying that every other site did it improperly, go figure.

In the end, [H] didn't show the difference between cards but rather systems...guess maybe we should refer to them as (h) now?

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.
November 21, 2004 2:00:30 AM

I have not had a lot of time to check everything out, but I am curious about this: Hardocp AND Anandtech show the 6800GT much closer (if not beating) the X800Pro, yet the other sites show the opposite. I know some sites are using the time demos off ATis site... anyhow, based on the HL2 Stress test and CS:S it is surprising if the X800Pro is beating the GT by so much.

Is it the time demos or what is going on that Anand and HardOCP ([H] long demo times aside) would both be showing the same thing. Again, I have not had a lot of time to review all the reviews yet, just a quick observation.
November 21, 2004 2:43:33 AM

One good thong about my TI4200. I don't have to mess with 6XAA/15xAF or any of that stuff. :smile:
a b U Graphics card
November 21, 2004 3:47:34 AM

Quote:
I think its funny most of the people making big deals about whats doing better, the top radeon cards or the top nvidia cards, are using 150 dollar 3 year old cards. I would be more worried about making sure I could run hl2 at all.......

What in the world is funny about that. It's kinda funny you're missing the whole point of why we are here. We are here because of a shared interest in Graphics cards and technology. In this case, we are talking about how the latest generation cards are handling HL2 so far. Does that mean you have to own one to be part of the conversation? Obviously not. Not everyone can afford a $400+ video card. Some of the old timers here are still using R8500's and Ti4200's, yet they contribute to this forum and know their stuff.

Anyway, what is truely funny to me and clearly evident in your comment, is the folks who do own a latest generation card(like you) who get defensive when their card suddenly doesn't shine. That is downright hilarious. Hey, I paid $170 shipped for my last retail BBA 9800 Pro, and it does a decent job in HL2. No AGP card for under $200 can beat it still months later. Show me benchies of a X700XT or GF6600GT beating it, I'm not going to be bothered one bit. I bought the best card at the time for the money I wanted to spend. Anyway, just cracks me up you have to take a jab at folks with 3-4 year old $150 cards, just because your hurt your 6800GT isn't near the top all of a sudden. Defensive reactionary posts make me :smile: inside, and sometimes LOL even. No offense meant, just couldn't let that comment go without showing my opinion of it anyway.

ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 1GB Corsair XMS 4000 Pro Series, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
November 21, 2004 6:31:22 AM

Im aware my card dosnt shine, belive it or not pauld I didnt buy the 6800 gt to make you think I had a bigger penis (I actually dont care what you think of the card), please dont feel the need to try to pshycologicaly break me down and tell me how my feelings work, it becomes you sir. I just find it amusing to see people arguing heatedly about the sides and arguing about which is better when nobody is using one (Brand loyalty wars). Ill check my sense of humor and intrest at the door the next time I see your crinkled self behind the counter.

(And if you are interested in the size please pm me in private)

Asus p4c800 Deluxe,1 Gig Mushkin PC3200 Dual Channel Level II V2,Pentium 4 3.0 512k 800fsb HT, Thermaltake Xaser III, Thermaltake Spark 7+, Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS Platinum Pro, eVGA GeForce 6800 GT<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Rx7000 on 11/21/04 03:32 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
November 21, 2004 6:36:56 AM

Will you supply me with girth size over PM too?

--
<font color=blue>Ede</font color=blue>
November 21, 2004 6:38:45 AM

Well genetic, according to Pauldh, I would need to buy the x800xt in order to have a bragable girth size, so until I get that and a p4 extreme id rather not say.

Asus p4c800 Deluxe,1 Gig Mushkin PC3200 Dual Channel Level II V2,Pentium 4 3.0 512k 800fsb HT, Thermaltake Xaser III, Thermaltake Spark 7+, Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS Platinum Pro, eVGA GeForce 6800 GT
November 21, 2004 6:43:56 AM

Well he's right d00d. I mean WTF, where the hell have you been?
Your GT's got millimeters on that inches long X800XT! :tongue:

[/no sarcasm meant towards ya Paul btw, I just found the humor in Rx7000's statement to be quite funny :wink: ]

--
<font color=blue>Ede</font color=blue>
a b U Graphics card
November 21, 2004 11:37:48 AM

No problem, I found it humorous also.


ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 1GB Corsair XMS 4000 Pro Series, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
a b U Graphics card
November 21, 2004 11:47:43 AM

Kinda a funny man I see. :smile:

Anyway, you are still missing the point. Why do you see it as argueing brand loyality when it is discussing FACTS about the latest hardware and one of the biggest games of the year. Only owners of one would feel threatened and obviously you are feeling inadequate :wink: JK. Anyway, do you really think everyone pointing to benchmarks is trying to flame one company and praise another. I'd post the same thing whether ATI was on top or NV, don't be such a sceptic. It's a fact that right now the 6800 series is getting whipped by the X800 series in HL2. It's also a fact that the 6800GT represents a good/maybe best bargain in the high end cards. (feel better now)

Anyway, stop looking down and stressing, your fly probably isn't open, and nobody really cares if it is.


ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 1GB Corsair XMS 4000 Pro Series, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
November 21, 2004 12:10:05 PM

Negative, Im not saying dont talk about and discuss the current news and state of hardware, this is what teh forums is for. You cant seem to accept the fact that I enjoy when the sharing information is ever so slightly making peoples brand loyalty show. Its not a bad thing, its actually a good thing. Lets just enjoy current events and be forum buddys ok.



Asus p4c800 Deluxe,1 Gig Mushkin PC3200 Dual Channel Level II V2,Pentium 4 3.0 512k 800fsb HT, Thermaltake Xaser III, Thermaltake Spark 7+, Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS Platinum Pro, eVGA GeForce 6800 GT (A certain memeber of your family might have been interested in it last night....)
November 21, 2004 12:19:53 PM

Here, here Rx, good post.

<font color=red><pre>\\//__________________________________
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre><p></font color=red>
a b U Graphics card
November 21, 2004 4:06:27 PM

Ok, that explains it a little. If that is the way you meant it, then fine. Sorry to jump on ya.

I hope you also see my point that it is to me more funny that the people who do own the cards in question act defensively and often post accordingly. Unlike what you had said(I should say, the way i took it anyway), the people who don't own them can often handle the discussion and be more openminded then the people who own one and for some reason feel the need to defend their purchase at all costs. Last thing we need is a bunch of X800XT and GF6800U owners going back and forth blindly claiming dominance.

Anyway, I'll often defend hardware that I use in builds as being good stuff under each circumstance, but if someone were to point out my own person systems limitations, I have no problem with that. But I do crack up when someone defends their own card/system like it's a family member, often disreguarding all facts in the process. There have been folks like that here in the past and I get such a laugh out of them.

Anyway, I'll agree to get back to the issues while still enjoying some humor too.


ABIT IS7, P4 2.6C, 1GB Corsair XMS 4000 Pro Series, Radeon 9800 Pro, Santa Cruz, TruePower 430watt
November 21, 2004 4:35:36 PM

"the people who don't own them can often handle the discussion and be more openminded then the people who own one and for some reason feel the need to defend their purchase at all costs."

Thats actually a very wise comment and it totally enlightens me into what your saying. I guess I can honestly say I couldnt agree more.

Asus p4c800 Deluxe,1 Gig Mushkin PC3200 Dual Channel Level II V2,Pentium 4 3.0 512k 800fsb HT, Thermaltake Xaser III, Thermaltake Spark 7+, Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS Platinum Pro, eVGA GeForce 6800 GT
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
November 21, 2004 6:07:02 PM

LOL @ <pre>[h]</pre><p>I didn't know that they didn't turn on reflest all, but I did find it had limited impact for MY setup. I was also disappointed to find 'reflect all' didn't include reflecting Freeman himself. Tried many times to see my reflection, but like the THG review said, there was no freeman shadow either so maybe that's an aspect of the game be it intentional or a glitch.

[H] is one of the very very few reviews showing things so close, so anyone saying that it is right and everyone else is wrong, is playing favourites. I like [H] but I especially liked their reliance on Hystograms and not generic Avg FPS numbers. I'm dissapointed with their first look, and Kyle really needs to get a refresh going because it so goes against his mantra of doing a thorough job.

It seems obvious by their 'edit' that even they found something that made them say, Oh, maybe there is a point of difference.

I'd like to see the hystograms of those segments because I'm feeling that Catalyst Maker Terry is right in that any fluctuations are being ironed out by the duration of the benchmark. A Hystogram will point that out very quickly.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
November 21, 2004 6:20:36 PM

Well first thing, Anandtech has no ability to be objective they are in nV's back pocket, so discount the majority of stuff you read there.

If you look at alot of the sites they are NOT using ATI's demos primarily, most of the top sites are making their own demos and trying those. Look at Xbit, they specifically state that they used only 1 ATI demo, and they renamed it to avoid possible application detection.

That Vapor described what [H] did in conjunction with their long time demo (seriously where are the F'in graphs, it's not that hard for a dedicated review site to get that done when the game has been out for almost a week!), without the Hystograms the review is exactly what Kyle said he hated, simply a avg FPS marketing tool.

I still think nV has alot of room to improve, but why should the X800Pro beating the GF6800GT surprise you, the GF6800 sometimes beat the X800XT in the early days of D3, but not now. The same thing is happening here. Whether the nV cards ever take the lead is doubtful, but not impossible, and I would be very surprised if after all is said and done that the GT doesn't go ahead of the PRO. However remember that there are still hardware differences here too, and I'd like to see if the HL2 HDR lighting favours ATI cards or not since it's a different technique that FartCry, but closer to rthdribl which still favours the ATI cards with the X800PRO beating the GF6800U in most cases. I expect more in depth looks over the next few weeks that go into detail what areas favour which architecture.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
November 21, 2004 6:38:28 PM

I think more people on the forums need to participate in our forum benchies of games, espically the new half life 2 one. its me pirya and paul. If we get a decent majority of people posting their own results we can draw on are own conclusions and come up with are own hypothesis.

Asus p4c800 Deluxe,1 Gig Mushkin PC3200 Dual Channel Level II V2,Pentium 4 3.0 512k 800fsb HT, Thermaltake Xaser III, Thermaltake Spark 7+, Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS Platinum Pro, eVGA GeForce 6800 GT
November 21, 2004 6:46:53 PM

My wife's computer is running HL2 with a GeForce 4 Ti 4200 128MB 8X AGP on a motherboard with a XP 2800+ clocked to 2.2 GHz and 1 Gig of system hardware ram. Motherboard is currently running at 333 MHz.

I am going to install a XP 3200+ for her and it will then run a motherboard speed of 400 MHz.

All her graphics details are set to Medium not high and the game runs perfectly for her.

Not bad for a Graphics card that only supports DX8 and not DX9 and is about 3 years old and has hundreds of game hours on it from other games.

It is currently running the latest driver package from Nvidia but that package really only supports later cards but does have more then the standard Global settings for games. Two pull down options tabs.

I used Coolbits in the registry set to 3 to obtain the overclocking option in the Cards set-up menues and have set her core clock to 261 MHz and her memory clock to 521 MHz that seems to be the best settings in her rig for that card. Her Monitor is set to 1024X768 in HL2 at 32 for colour and 100 MHz refresh rate is supported on the Monitor.

Colours and graphics in the game as well as shading and lighting is very realistic I don't know what else to say it works great.

<font color=red>GOD</font color=red> <font color=orange>LOVES</font color=orange> <font color=red>CANADA</font color=red>
November 21, 2004 7:38:20 PM

Hey Grape, Thanks for the reply :) 

The reason I was surprised at the Firingsquad and other tests showing the X800Pro beating out the 6800GT was because of the results of the stress test and specifically CS:S. I believe in 4 Firingsquads CS:S tests the 6800GT outpaces the X800Pro by an average of almost 10FPS at 1600x1200 with 4xAA and 8xAF.

Anyhow, I am not accusing anyone of anything :)  I like ATi and their cards seem to rock in HL2--which is great. My last card was a 9700... one of the main reasons I went with the 6800GT instead of the X800Pro was the pipeline difference (12 vs 16) and the fact while the X800Pro may beat out the 6800GT at times, they are usually close and both very playable. But in games like Doom 3, the difference is significant (i.e. one is plyable at 1600x1200 and one is not). I do not want to generalize (because it is not fair), and both ATi and nVidia have great cards this time around. Just a little shocked at how different the HardOCP, Anandtech, Xbit, Firingsquad, etc... benchmarks are--that is why I always read more than one (if I have time... which right now I do not).

It will be interesting to see how HL2 is doing in 4-6 weeks from now. Just as ATi has got their cards running much better in Doom 3 now, I would expect a similar move from nVidia because (embarassingly!!!!) the 12 pipe X800Pro is beating the 6800Ultra in many cases! OUCH!

Competition is good for us, the consumer though :)  Thanks for your reply Grape :) 
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
November 21, 2004 7:46:44 PM

True, and I like your Sticky idea as a tempo thing. Sticky for a month. Makes it a living-breathing forum. Let Fredi know the goal and that it's tempo so as to not frustrate him (dang alot of work this Graphics forum!)


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
November 21, 2004 8:08:34 PM

One thing to remember is that ATI came out with their new Ubber HL2 drivers, which boosted performance greatly, and the Early HL2-Stress Test seems more in line with current results than the CS:S results. But they are both out of date with that driver boost. IT's like D3 nVidia had shader replacement in their drivers from the start, but ATI had to wait until it was added later (the Humus tweak [he works for ATI]). I think the same is happeneing here. ATI found legit ways to boos their performancde. Give nV some more time, and expect some legit (they have learned IMO) boosts from their drivers too.

The GF6800GT is still an 'overall' better choice IMO, but in this one game, which most of us expected to favour ATI anyways, the X800Pro comes out ahead. It's like when the X800XTPE was losing tot he GT, you think WTF? But later you come to realize it's somewhat of an anomaly, and doesn't represent most of the other games. Heck we don't even know if the D3 advanatge will translate to game built on it's engine, and the same goes for HL2, that to me will be the most interesting comparison. But it looks like we may ave to wait a while for 3rd parties to get those games into our hands.

Quote:
It will be interesting to see how HL2 is doing in 4-6 weeks from now. Just as ATi has got their cards running much better in Doom 3 now, I would expect a similar move from nVidia because (embarassingly!!!!) the 12 pipe X800Pro is beating the 6800Ultra in many cases! OUCH!

Yeah, exactly, and rememebr initially the ultra slow 12 pipe <A HREF="http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTA5MDc4NzE0M1R..." target="_new">GF6800vanilla</A> was beating the <A HREF="http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTA5MDc4NzE0M1R..." target="_new">X800XTPE</A> and as [H] put it: <i>"Sadly, even with the power of the FX-53 behind it, the X800XT-PE has a hard time separating itself from the vanilla 6800 OC."</i>

But that's not the case now. And when applying AA/AF, that's definitely not the case. But early on it was the case because people didn't have even the Doom3 Catalyst drivers, so that was raw initial performance. Which is what we're seeing now from nV with HL2.

I think the most accurate performance will be found in a few weeks, but like I said before rthdribl does show some areas (HDR) where no amount of legit driver boosts will help. I think overall though you will see the X800PRO and GT very close, even with the GT maybe taking the lead, but the XTPE and just plain XT will likely always be top dogs in HL2, that's just a feeling.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
November 21, 2004 9:32:39 PM

Listen to the guy above for once i dont need to write long Replys.
November 22, 2004 3:05:40 AM

Thanks Grape :) 

And I think you will be right about the XT vs. the Ultra in HL2. ATi and nVidia really have some excellent cards with some really strong areas that some developers have been able to really make their games great. Us lucky gamers are really being treated to some great games and hardware!
November 22, 2004 3:06:06 AM

LMAO.

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<font color=blue>Ede</font color=blue>
November 22, 2004 3:07:06 AM

This month's probably one of the best in gaming ever, just think of all the excellent games out (or most anticipated ones). Orgasmic!

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<font color=blue>Ede</font color=blue>
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
November 22, 2004 8:27:48 AM

LOL
November 22, 2004 9:15:26 AM

Give either company more time to optomize a driver and they have a better chance on taking the lead. We wont know the real down low for 2-3 months till nvidia makes an optomized driver update and we can see where the super brands stand.

Asus p4c800 Deluxe,1 Gig Mushkin PC3200 Dual Channel Level II V2,Pentium 4 3.0 512k 800fsb HT, Thermaltake Xaser III, Thermaltake Spark 7+, Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS Platinum Pro, eVGA GeForce 6800 GT
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
November 22, 2004 9:35:36 AM

Your Correct in what you say. If you cant wait look at the top 10 games do bencheis on them leaving HL2 out and you will see a trend in the top 6-8 grafix cards thats what you should be looking at, once the driver crap is sorted out with nvidia the order you see in the over 10 games will be what you see in HL2 hopefully.
November 22, 2004 5:42:33 PM

Quote:
Your Correct in what you say. If you cant wait look at the top 10 games do bencheis on them leaving HL2 out and you will see a trend in the top 6-8 grafix cards thats what you should be looking at, once the driver crap is sorted out with nvidia the order you see in the over 10 games will be what you see in HL2 hopefully.

...............what?

Some people on this forum are butchering the English language...

<A HREF="http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/landing/landingIndex.jsp..." target="_new">DumbLand</A>
November 22, 2004 5:46:03 PM

Ahhh, since the freedom fries change went over so well, now there is a push to change our language officially to the Amercan language.

<font color=red><pre>\\//__________________________________
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre><p></font color=red>
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
November 22, 2004 6:06:10 PM

Hay italiano, Punk. LOL
!