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Possible To Piggyback Routers?

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April 9, 2004 1:25:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

I have a combo cable modem/router that is 802.11b. I would like to
run an 802.11g network with it. I don't want to lose any speed, so
need a separate router. Can I just piggyback (e.g plug the output of
the b router into the input of the g router? Would the b network
"see" the g network doing it that way? I suppose I could have the b
computers use the g router, and just ignore the b router.

More about : piggyback routers

Anonymous
April 9, 2004 10:16:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Dick <LeadWinger> wrote in news:bajd70llsmqf89ham8chagfoic4khsad4g@4ax.com:

> I have a combo cable modem/router that is 802.11b. I would like to
> run an 802.11g network with it. I don't want to lose any speed, so
> need a separate router. Can I just piggyback (e.g plug the output of
> the b router into the input of the g router? Would the b network
> "see" the g network doing it that way? I suppose I could have the b
> computers use the g router, and just ignore the b router.


Why not just buy an access point instead?

Some routers you can piggyback, but others complain that the WAN IP is
actually an internal address.

Which brand of router do you have?


--
Lucas Tam (REMOVEnntp@rogers.com)
Please delete "REMOVE" from the e-mail address when replying.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/coolspot18/
April 9, 2004 10:16:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 18:16:24 GMT, Lucas Tam <REMOVEnntp@rogers.com>
wrote:

>Dick <LeadWinger> wrote in news:bajd70llsmqf89ham8chagfoic4khsad4g@4ax.com:
>
>> I have a combo cable modem/router that is 802.11b. I would like to
>> run an 802.11g network with it. I don't want to lose any speed, so
>> need a separate router. Can I just piggyback (e.g plug the output of
>> the b router into the input of the g router? Would the b network
>> "see" the g network doing it that way? I suppose I could have the b
>> computers use the g router, and just ignore the b router.
>
>
>Why not just buy an access point instead?
>
>Some routers you can piggyback, but others complain that the WAN IP is
>actually an internal address.
>
>Which brand of router do you have?

Toshiba PCX5000 combo cable modem/router.
Related resources
Anonymous
April 10, 2004 12:04:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Dick <LeadWinger> wrote:

> I have a combo cable modem/router that is 802.11b. I would like to
> run an 802.11g network with it. I don't want to lose any speed, so
> need a separate router. Can I just piggyback (e.g plug the output of
> the b router into the input of the g router? Would the b network
> "see" the g network doing it that way? I suppose I could have the b
> computers use the g router, and just ignore the b router.

It is possible, but why would you want to? Assuming you have sufficient
ports for all your computers, you'd gain nothing.

--

Fundamentalism is fundamentally wrong.

To reply to this message, replace everything to the left of "@" with
james.knott.
April 10, 2004 12:04:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 20:04:49 GMT, James Knott <bit_bucket@rogers.com>
wrote:

>Dick <LeadWinger> wrote:
>
>> I have a combo cable modem/router that is 802.11b. I would like to
>> run an 802.11g network with it. I don't want to lose any speed, so
>> need a separate router. Can I just piggyback (e.g plug the output of
>> the b router into the input of the g router? Would the b network
>> "see" the g network doing it that way? I suppose I could have the b
>> computers use the g router, and just ignore the b router.
>
>It is possible, but why would you want to? Assuming you have sufficient
>ports for all your computers, you'd gain nothing.

Because my new laptop with an 802.11g adapter built-in refuses to talk
to my 802.11b router, even though it can see other routers in the
neighborhood. Also, I don't want to be reduced to 11 mbps when I
could be using 125 mbps with the laptop. Don't want to replace the b
router because it is a combo cable modem/router, and was fairly
expensive.
Anonymous
April 10, 2004 3:38:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Dick <LeadWinger> wrote in news:9cbe701v6cig04icb42a8q8qan8v9kt4bh@4ax.com:

> Also, I don't want to be reduced to 11 mbps when I
> could be using 125 mbps with the laptop.

Buy a new access point.

Also, you won't get be getting 125mbps, more like 30mbps.

--
Lucas Tam (REMOVEnntp@rogers.com)
Please delete "REMOVE" from the e-mail address when replying.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/coolspot18/
April 10, 2004 3:38:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 23:38:31 GMT, Lucas Tam <REMOVEnntp@rogers.com>
wrote:

>Dick <LeadWinger> wrote in news:9cbe701v6cig04icb42a8q8qan8v9kt4bh@4ax.com:
>
>> Also, I don't want to be reduced to 11 mbps when I
>> could be using 125 mbps with the laptop.
>
>Buy a new access point.
>
>Also, you won't get be getting 125mbps, more like 30mbps.

Could you explain why?
Anonymous
April 10, 2004 6:05:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Dick <LeadWinger> wrote in
news:2aje70ll0d8n8ulg4uavcf9n72saa6ari4@4ax.com:

> On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 23:38:31 GMT, Lucas Tam <REMOVEnntp@rogers.com>
> wrote:

>>Buy a new access point.
>>
>>Also, you won't get be getting 125mbps, more like 30mbps.
>
> Could you explain why?


108mbps is a marketing ploy. While it works (sort of) it only delivers
20% - 30% extra speeds over real world WiFi speeds.

Standard 802.11g runs at about 20mbps. Accelerated technologies will
boost the speeds to about 25 - 30mbps.

The reason WiFi is slow is due to several factors such as:
Inefficiencies of sending data over the air
WiFi being a shared medium
Interference
WEP encryption
TCP overhead

So when all the overhead is accounted for, you're getting less than 50%
of the speeds. 30 - 40% of the stated speeds is not bad.

Check out this graph:

http://www.dlink.com/products/resource.asp?pid=6&rid=3&

Notice how the "red" portion does not fill the entire bar chart? Sneaky
marketing eh... The red portion represents "real world" speeds (the
108mbp speed is overstated though).

If it makes you feel any better, even a 100mbit WIRED lan won't reach
full speeds, more like 60 - 90% depending on the client load and
topology.

--
Lucas Tam (REMOVEnntp@rogers.com)
Please delete "REMOVE" from the e-mail address when replying.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/coolspot18/
Anonymous
April 10, 2004 6:58:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 09:25:58 -0700, Dick <LeadWinger> wrote:

>I have a combo cable modem/router that is 802.11b. I would like to
>run an 802.11g network with it. I don't want to lose any speed, so
>need a separate router. Can I just piggyback (e.g plug the output of
>the b router into the input of the g router? Would the b network
>"see" the g network doing it that way? I suppose I could have the b
>computers use the g router, and just ignore the b router.

I have a Linksys WRT54G configured that way. Instead of plugging it
into the cable modem I plugged it into one of the ports of my wired
router and it works fine.
Anonymous
April 10, 2004 11:26:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

"Todrogas" <frinpuc@adgin.com> wrote in message
news:vqgg70l4as3j4rsao072rrh1gsci56sso6@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 09:25:58 -0700, Dick <LeadWinger> wrote:
>
> >I have a combo cable modem/router that is 802.11b. I would like to
> >run an 802.11g network with it. I don't want to lose any speed, so
> >need a separate router. Can I just piggyback (e.g plug the output of
> >the b router into the input of the g router? Would the b network
> >"see" the g network doing it that way? I suppose I could have the b
> >computers use the g router, and just ignore the b router.
>
> I have a Linksys WRT54G configured that way. Instead of plugging it
> into the cable modem I plugged it into one of the ports of my wired
> router and it works fine.

Well, I had to do a couple things to make this work, which I found somewhere
on the web (maybe dslreports.com ?)

On the downstream router (G for you):

Set explicitly to a new IP outside the 1st routers DHCP range but same
xxx.xxx.x digits
Turn off DHCP
Set to 'access point' mode, not router to avoid double NAT (this goofed me
up for 2 days)
Plug cable from a LAN port on upstream to the uplink port on the downstream
Set wireless to different SSIDs and distant channels (e.g., 11 and 5)

My actual G speeds went up from about 12 mbps peak to 14 mbps with this
setup, but mostly it was fun and used the otherwise useless B WAP/router
for something. Don't forget to set the G to 'G only' after you get it going
tpo maximize speed.

CE
Anonymous
April 11, 2004 7:22:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

I have two routers, although only one of them is wireless. I don't set the
wireless router to Access Point mode, it does do double NAT and that's not a
problem.

If you have one wireless B router and one wireless G router then you should
do as Todrogas says with separate SSIDs. By having the routers in separate
ESSs (distinct SSIDs), the G router can operate in true G mode at full
speed. If it shares the ESS with the B router, then it will only operate at
B speeds.

Todrogas's comments about throughput are also correct. Remember that a
wireless LAN is a shared medium (like a hub), not a switched medium. A 10
Mbps wired Ethernet using a hub and several users will send the bits within
a frame at 10 Mbps, but the overall throughput will be more like 6 Mbps due
to protocol headers, collisions of frames sent at the same time by different
stations that will need to be retried, and mandatory wait times between
frames. A wireless network not only has overhead from protocol headers, but
also there are many frames sent in the 802.11 protocol just for the purpose
of avoiding collisions. Collisions are much harder to detect in the
wireless LAN since it isn't a requirement for the client stations to hear
each other, as long as the client can hear the access point and vice versa.
Typical throughput on 802.11b is 5-6.5 Mbps. Typical throughput on 802.11g
is 20-30 Mbps. It's important to realize that different folks measure
throughput differently. For example, Todrogas included TCP overhead in his
ratings and another person might only include 802.11 and Ethernet overhead
in theirs.

Ron Bandes

"C. Eastwood" <CE@sfpd.com> wrote in message
news:WYmdnQt7uKYGH-XdRVn-uA@comcast.com...
> "Todrogas" <frinpuc@adgin.com> wrote in message
> news:vqgg70l4as3j4rsao072rrh1gsci56sso6@4ax.com...
> > On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 09:25:58 -0700, Dick <LeadWinger> wrote:
> >
> > >I have a combo cable modem/router that is 802.11b. I would like to
> > >run an 802.11g network with it. I don't want to lose any speed, so
> > >need a separate router. Can I just piggyback (e.g plug the output of
> > >the b router into the input of the g router? Would the b network
> > >"see" the g network doing it that way? I suppose I could have the b
> > >computers use the g router, and just ignore the b router.
> >
> > I have a Linksys WRT54G configured that way. Instead of plugging it
> > into the cable modem I plugged it into one of the ports of my wired
> > router and it works fine.
>
> Well, I had to do a couple things to make this work, which I found
somewhere
> on the web (maybe dslreports.com ?)
>
> On the downstream router (G for you):
>
> Set explicitly to a new IP outside the 1st routers DHCP range but same
> xxx.xxx.x digits
> Turn off DHCP
> Set to 'access point' mode, not router to avoid double NAT (this goofed me
> up for 2 days)
> Plug cable from a LAN port on upstream to the uplink port on the
downstream
> Set wireless to different SSIDs and distant channels (e.g., 11 and 5)
>
> My actual G speeds went up from about 12 mbps peak to 14 mbps with this
> setup, but mostly it was fun and used the otherwise useless B WAP/router
> for something. Don't forget to set the G to 'G only' after you get it
going
> tpo maximize speed.
>
> CE
April 11, 2004 7:22:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

If you leave both routers as routers, can PC's on the respective
routers communicate with each other? My B router (which is also a
cable modem) has the ability to put it in bridge mode thereby
operating as a modem only, and bridging the modem to the G router. I
understand what you are saying about the slowdown if mixing B and G
components.

I have four computers on my network. One goes RJ-45 to the router (to
be a G), one has a G adapter built-in, and two have B adapters.
Eventually I will replace the two B adapters.

On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 03:22:53 GMT, "Ron Bandes" <RunderscoreBandes
@yah00.com> wrote:

>I have two routers, although only one of them is wireless. I don't set the
>wireless router to Access Point mode, it does do double NAT and that's not a
>problem.
>
>If you have one wireless B router and one wireless G router then you should
>do as Todrogas says with separate SSIDs. By having the routers in separate
>ESSs (distinct SSIDs), the G router can operate in true G mode at full
>speed. If it shares the ESS with the B router, then it will only operate at
>B speeds.
!