Which graphics card for this retro system?

can someone help me out with this - i am looking to buy this TODAY!

I was initially going to get a 9600XT but the are only 4X/8X. pro version might be a good idea - a good bit cheaper and there's the 256mb version

ok, now i notice a further $30 difference between a 128mb and 256mb version - is 256mb really going to do anything for me?

what i was saying though is that the mobo is only 2X

A 9800 Pro with 256-bit memory interface, 128MB, would be GREAT!

Beware that MOST of the 9800 Pro's on the market now use a 128-bit memory interface, that's why they're cheaper. This version of the 9800 Pro is actually just a 9500 Pro on steriods (it's a 9500 Pro with the 9800 chip and higher speed RAM).

Beware of the specifications on 9800 Pro boards. There are a lot of economy versions people will try to sell you hoping you don't know the difference.

Of course a REAL 9800 Pro 128MB (256-bit memory interface) will be a lot of card for that system.

You might consider looking very hard for a 9700 Pro. These can be had for around $130, when available. They perform MUCH BETTER than the 9800 Pro with 128-bit memory interface.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

d00d, you're not listening: The 9600 series doesn't support AGP 1.0 spec boards at all, it doesn't even fit the slot.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

By the way, I used to test your model of board with a Tualatin Celeron 1.1GHz overclocked to 1650MHz at 150MHz FSB! I used the Upgradware Slot-T adapter, this adapter is similar to the Abit Slotket III, but allows tulatins on boards like yours, and cost $20.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

Oh, by the way, you'll want to make sure the company you buy from has a reasonably good return policy. The reason? Most newer cards don't like AGP overclocking.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

let me get back to you - i think i'll put the purchase on hold. you've prompted me to come up with a million questions with your knowledge but no time to write now - celtics game!

so crashman, the best cpu i could fit in this BE6-II (using the upgradeware slot-t) would be a 1.4 ghz tualatin at 133mhz bus with 512k cache? (i think this was a server cpu but should still be best) can you confirm that?

9800 Pro had both key notches, 9800XT didn't. So when I'm telling people what cards fit, I have to make that exception.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

Yes. But a Celeron 1100@1466 is almost as fast as a PIII-S 1400, and cost around 1/4 the price.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

Dr. Wu, all the links in the world aren't going to change the fact that AGP divider options are limitted to 1:1 and 2/3 FSB.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

I'll give you a clue: The BX (and ZX) chipset had the following ratios available:

AGP:FSB
1:1, 2:3

PCI:FSB
1:2, 1:3, 1:4

RAM:FSB
1:1

Now, what do you think?

Some boards had the correct clock generator to support the 1:4 PCI ratio while others didn't.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

I don't mind spending the money if the PIII-S 1400 is a little better - would i even be able to oc that?

ok, all this divider stuff confuses the hell out of me. am i going to have problems with say a 9600/9700/9800 pro?

with what card am i going to stop seeing a performance increase (where something else will become the limiting factor)?

You can't use a 9600 series card. 9700 Pro, 9800 Pro may work, or they might have a problem with the overclocked bus. At 133MHz CPU bus, your AGP clock is raised to 89MHz from the standard 66MHz. Cards from around 2001 were designed to tolerate such deviance, others aren't. But you don't know unless you try.

As for the PIII-S 1400, it's so expensive you could just as easily start off with a newer board and CPU.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

i'm just like that with computers - i'll get every thing i can out of a board before i start messing with a new one

i thought the only cards i'd have problems with are the 9600XT and 9800XT as they have a different core from all the other 9600/9700/9800 models

Well then, may I suggest trying to get a Tualatin Celeron 1200 to 1600MHz at 133MHz FSB?

Sure you can overclock the PIII-S 1400, but how far do you think you'll get when it's already using a 133MHz bus at stock?

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>

i'll really get the celeron to run at 133mhz fsb?

that isn't a bad deal - i can get one for $38

let me ask you this. if money was not a concern, what cpu would you buy for this be6-II? or ultimately, what cpu is going to give the best performance after overclocking?

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by slam on 12/19/04 11:04 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

Well, the chances of getting a Tualatin to 1.6GHz are around 50%. My Celeron 1200 was one of the failures, it wouldn't go much past 1.5GHz. My Celeron 1100 was one of the sucesses, it would go to 1650MHz (150MHz FSB). I've heard the later CPU's would clock higher than the older ones, so perhaps your chances of getting a 1200 to 1600 are better now than they were then.

The Slot-T has voltage identification pin jumpers (VID). Those can be used to bypass your CPU's VID pins and make the system start with the CPU vCore you choose. I'd choose 1.65v to start, go to 1.70v if it works but with minor instability, or drop the vCore a bit if it works perfectly to find a lower vCore that's still stable (less heat, longer life).

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>