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Possible issue with nForce 3 and 6800 cards

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  • Graphics Cards
  • Chipsets
  • Motherboards
  • Graphics
Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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December 29, 2004 10:08:32 AM

OK, lets go,

I have a MSI K8N Neo 2 Platinum motherboard, nVidia nForce 3 250 chipset and a BFG6800 Ultra OC card. At default clock values it is not possible run any Direct 3D application. The rendering subsystem just pauses for 4 to 10 seconds and, after the pause, resumes operation for a few seconds and pauses again and so on. For reading forums i know there are many people with this same problem. All of them have nForce 3 chipsets motherboards and 6800 cards. The problem is not happening in OpenGL games or 6800 in Via chipsets or not 6800 in nForce 3 chipsets, this is happening ONLY in nForce 3 with 6800/6800GT/6800 Ultra.

If you overclock your card the problem goes worse. More overclock will give you more and longer pauses. OpenGL games are fine and does not present this problem. This is happening only for all Direct 3D software (ie 3D Mark 2003/2005).

If you have an overclocked card (like me) the only cure/workaround is underclock it to stock nVidia reference values.

If you test the same card (without underclock it) in a Via chipset motherboard (or OpenGL software) all go fine and without pauses.

Just courious if THG or some of you have experienced the same problem.

You can read these thread too:
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=126
http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?nam...

Thank you and kind regards.

More about : issue nforce 6800 cards

December 29, 2004 11:26:14 AM

<A HREF="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=126" target="_new"> Clicky </A>

hmm I hope thats not true since i just bought MSI K8N Neo 2 Platinum and an Asus 6800GT!!!

AMD 2500+ @2145.92Mhz - Volcano9 - A7N8X/DLX - Corsair XMS3200LL 1024MB - GF 3 TI-200 - C: = 2x WD Raptor 10000rpm RAID 0 - D: = 2x WD Caviar 200Gb 7200rpm SATA RAID 0 - Hiper 420w.
December 29, 2004 11:26:24 AM

I have not got a 6800 Ultra card, but I had this same question. I had visited a local computer store and the salesperson had mentioned this happening with those as well as the 6800 GT's. I figured it was just salesman rhetoric, but maybe it's not. I have yet to have problems with my EVGA Geforce 6800 and nForce 3 motherboard. The guy had mentioned there was to be a firmware update, but I would guess that is going to be up to each card manufacturer to do. Then again, he could have been full of it.
Related resources
December 29, 2004 3:32:43 PM

Hmm i have been reading on some forums and i think it looks more like a BFG/nforce3 problem than a GF6800/nForce3 problem!

AMD 2500+ @2145.92Mhz - Volcano9 - A7N8X/DLX - Corsair XMS3200LL 1024MB - GF 3 TI-200 - C: = 2x WD Raptor 10000rpm RAID 0 - D: = 2x WD Caviar 200Gb 7200rpm SATA RAID 0 - Hiper 420w.
December 29, 2004 5:47:47 PM

This would be because BFG's are overclocked at manufacturing process. There is no problem with 6800 at stock reference speeds, this is valid to BFG's too. If i downclock the card to stock reference nVidia speeds (400 core, 1100 vram for my ultra) from BFG's default overclocking values (454 core, 1180 vram) the problem is gone.
I know, it is relative if it is valid to whine for no be able to run the card beyond specification but the bottom line is this (two possibilities):

1) nForce 3 chipset are worse (just the worst of all if the problem is not fixed) than Via chipset for overclock nVidia 6800 cards or these nVidia chipsets are having some problem at these speeds with these cards.
2) nVidia is limiting the overclocking capability of their svga elite line with this chipset and if you want ultra speeds you must buy a ultra card, no more 6800 GT running at ultra speeds (marketing strategy).

Both two scenarios are impeding me get all juice from my recently bought hardware.

I will be happy for you if you are right. Good luck with your rig. Please repost here when you have tested your hardware.

What do you think about?
December 29, 2004 6:33:25 PM

I get my stuff 7/1 -04 then i´ll try OC the hell out of it. And damm if the hardware dont obey my whip.

AMD 2500+ @2145.92Mhz - Volcano9 - A7N8X/DLX - Corsair XMS3200LL 1024MB - GF 3 TI-200 - C: = 2x WD Raptor 10000rpm RAID 0 - D: = 2x WD Caviar 200Gb 7200rpm SATA RAID 0 - Hiper 420w.
December 29, 2004 10:42:10 PM

btw anyone else with nForce3/Gf6800 experience ???

AMD 2500+ @2145.92Mhz - Volcano9 - A7N8X/DLX - Corsair XMS3200LL 1024MB - GF 3 TI-200 - C: = 2x WD Raptor 10000rpm RAID 0 - D: = 2x WD Caviar 200Gb 7200rpm SATA RAID 0 - Hiper 420w.
December 30, 2004 3:48:25 AM

If the theory of Nvidia doing this on purpose is true wouldn't people have the same trouble with Nforce 4 chipsets?
December 31, 2004 4:29:39 AM

Oh well, i dont know if this is done on purpose but the facts are:
1) Why vanilla 6800 begins to fail just when you overclock the card passing the stock speeds?
2) Why 6800 GT begins to fail just when you overclock the card passing the stock speeds?
3) The same would be applied to the Ultra, you can not pass from stock speeds without pauses.

I mean, if it is a chipset bug or driver bug, if you are unable to overclock a 6800 and these do not run well passing 300 Mhz core, GTs and Ultras would do not run at their stock reference speed for be more than 300 Mhz. The fail only pop-ups when you overclock the cards relative to the reference speed of each card model. This is very rare would say.
January 1, 2005 12:39:00 AM

Yea, it is weird and I hope someone figures out the problem I'd be pissed if I had the problem.
a b U Graphics card
January 1, 2005 2:53:59 AM

I have the same mobo as you, and a 6800GT was high on my list if/when I ever found one for under $300. But right now, I don't think I'd risk it. The neo2p and a R9800 pro have been solid, I'd hate to upgrade into troubles. I guess it's back to fishing for a X800XT or hoping X800XL gets bridged to AGP. I really want a 16 pipe AGP card to last me a a while until PCI-e clearly takes over and I am forced to switch. Just not sure if I can hold out for R520 or not, and not feeling too good about availbility of AGP models either when it does. HIS X800XL AGP for under $300, that's all I asking for. :eek: 



<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=3400555" target="_new"> My</A>
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8268935" target="_new">Gamer</A>
January 1, 2005 7:12:47 PM

Go for 6800GT as I!!! Dont u like a little challange ?

AMD 2500+ @2145.92Mhz - Volcano9 - A7N8X/DLX - Corsair XMS3200LL 1024MB - GF 3 TI-200 - C: = 2x WD Raptor 10000rpm RAID 0 - D: = 2x WD Caviar 200Gb 7200rpm SATA RAID 0 - Hiper 420w.
January 2, 2005 7:40:53 PM

This should fix the problem:

"With Riva Tuner, open it and click "Customize" at the end of the line that says "Forceware Detected". Select the icon that looks like a DirectX representation. Go to the "Blitting" tab, and check the top two boxes. Save that, then go to the Settings tab, and select "Send to tray on close" and "Run at Windows Startup".

AMD 2500+ @2145.92Mhz - Volcano9 - A7N8X/DLX - Corsair XMS3200LL 1024MB - GF 3 TI-200 - C: = 2x WD Raptor 10000rpm RAID 0 - D: = 2x WD Caviar 200Gb 7200rpm SATA RAID 0 - Hiper 420w.
January 4, 2005 7:53:28 AM

If you can alleviate the problem by tweaking Direct X settings, i think this issue would be driver related and there would be some possibility for a fix in the next Forceware driver.

Thank you anyway.
January 7, 2005 6:53:26 PM

*** UPDATE ***

Ok, just for your information.
For users of BFGs vga cards and MSI K8N NEO2 Platinum

1) BFG 6800 Ultra OC is overclocked by default at manufacturing process (the OC part in the name). Core clock is 425 Mhz instead the 400 Mhz for reference boards, yes you would know this yet...

2) MSI K8N Neo 2 Platinum overclocks the vga for about 29 Mhz by default. This is done by a hidden BIOS setting.

If you install coolbits and open the overclocking section of the Forceware drivers you will see a 454 Khz core for your BFG 6800 ultra like stock default speed (if you have selected the no overclock option). It is the overclocked stock frecuency 425 + 29 Mhz of motherboard BIOS overclocking feature.

For troubleshooting purposes i recomend disable this hidden motherboard BIOS setting in the MSI K8N NEO 2.

You can access to hidden BIOS setting with the SHIFT+F2 followed by CTRL+F3 key combination in the Core Cell menu (and advanced chipset menu too i think).

One thing more:
Latest nvidia drivers have a know problem with data execution prevention feature. This is a new security feature only active for AMD 64 and Windows XP SP2. To avoid this please...
Go to start-->control panel-->performance and maintenance-->system-->advanced options-->startup-->EDIT

Now, you are editing the boot.ini file system. You must change the following (be very carefull because you would run in boot problems):

/noexecute=optin

to the following:

/noexecute=allwaysoff

Doing this you will disable the new DEP feature. nVidia drivers after 61.77 are having a issue with DEP. The issue consist in BSOD with the IRQ_NOT_GREATER_THAN_OR _EQUAL message.

Remember change back the boot.ini to default (/noexecute=optin) when nvidia fix the problem.

I am runnig now all programs without any problem at stock reference speeds 400 Mhz core 1100 Mhz memory. At these speeds no more pauses/freezes/BSODs.

I hope all this information will be helpfull to you.

Kind regards.
January 8, 2005 3:45:53 AM

i got my MSI K8N Neo 2 Platinum and Asus GF6800gt 350/1000 and tried a little UT2004 and i also get these [-peep-] freezelags !!! i had set my mind to "ok i cant oc" but i cant even [-peep-] run @ stock grrrr aahhh

Now i´ve played a little more and got that IRQ_NOT_GREATER_THAN_OR _EQUAL [-peep-] also !!! omfg i couldent get more pissed off

AMD 2500+ @2145.92Mhz - Volcano9 - A7N8X/DLX - Corsair XMS3200LL 1024MB - GF 3 TI-200 - C: = 2x WD Raptor 10000rpm RAID 0 - D: = 2x WD Caviar 200Gb 7200rpm SATA RAID 0 - Hiper 420w.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Bosse on 01/08/05 01:06 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
January 8, 2005 10:42:33 AM

Welcome to the club Bosse.

I am beginning to think these nForce 3 chipset are a great piece of junk, i do not know if this is a hardware or software problem but i know for sure all these nVidia drivers are pure [-peep-].

Ok, and disabling the DEP feature did not cure the DRIVER_IRQL_NO_LESS_OR_EQUAL BSOD too. I am getting this BSOD randomly every 3 or 4 days, it happens at the very first network activity, Windows XP points to the NVSNPU.SYS driver, it is the nVidia Network Bus Enumerator. Windows XP just load well, the desktop is loaded and when the first network activity pops up (auto update may be). Bang!!!...the damn BSOD.

So far, with nForce 3 motherboards, latest nVidia drivers and 6800 svga you will face with the following problems:

Problem 1
---------
Component:
nForce3 5.10 drivers setup + not English Windows XP

Problem pops up:
At installation process.

Problem description:
In not English Windows XP, if you select full installation, the network management component setup will look for the "Users" security group. This group does not exists in not English windows and the intallation gives a error.

Possible work around:
When the error windows pops up, open a management console window, add the users and groups adding and create a "Users" (in English) user, this new user must belong to the users groups (in the language of your Windows XP). TO open a management console, open a command window and run the mmc command.

Problem 2
---------
Component:
SVGA/Forceware drivers/nForce 3/nForce 3 drivers

Problem pops up:
In Direct 3D applications when overclocked 6800/6800 GT/6800 Ultra are used.

Problem description:
Pauses/frezees every 3~5 seconds, all system activity is halted for about 4~10 seconds. If extreme overclocking is in use, the pause would give you a BSOD with the "Infinite Loop" message.

Possible work around:
Install coolbits and downclock your 6800/6800 GT/6800 Ultra to stock reference speeds these speeds are:
6800->300 core
6800 GT->350 core
6800 Ultra->400 core
BEWARE...Would be you must downclock your card bellow reference values. You will must find the correct ones. If downclocking to reference values does not cure the problem, left the speed at reference value and try disabling fast writes in motherboard BIOS too.

Problem 3
---------
Component:
nVidia networking bus enumerator/nVidia networking bus enumerator driver

Problem pops up:
At very first network activity (anti virus update, windows update and soo on) or at random times (downloading/surfing the web/ftp).

Problem description:
Suddenly, there are network activity, after a few seconds a BSOD sowing the message "DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL" pops up. The operating system points to the NVSNPU.SYS driver like the culprit of the exception.

Possible work around:
It is not known, sorry. I am not a nVidia engineer.

Problem 4 (MSI specific)
---------
Component:
MSI Core Center

Problem pops up:
At times, when the MSI Core Center application starts.

Problem description:
Core Center give you three error messages. It says it is unable to load the required driver...blah...blah...blah...

Possible work around:
It is not known, sorry. I am not a MSI engineer either.

Please add here your issues/fixed and please...contact MSI/nVidia telling the problems. We need updated drivers ASAP.

Good luck and kind regards.
January 8, 2005 11:59:36 AM

Problem pops up:
In Direct 3D applications when overclocked 6800/6800 GT/6800 Ultra are used.
----------------------------------------------------------Well my doesnt even work @ stock settings.

have u ever talked to nvidia or any other company about the problem ??? I must know if its a hardware problem coz then i must get rid of the mobo or gfx.

AMD 2500+ @2145.92Mhz - Volcano9 - A7N8X/DLX - Corsair XMS3200LL 1024MB - GF 3 TI-200 - C: = 2x WD Raptor 10000rpm RAID 0 - D: = 2x WD Caviar 200Gb 7200rpm SATA RAID 0 - Hiper 420w.
January 8, 2005 12:20:34 PM

I'd guess it's the board as tons of other people have nearly the same setup (MSI K8N Neo2 Plat with a 6800xx AND oc'd!) and it works fine for them. There's also been a bunch of crappy MSI boards passing quality check in the past month, wouldn't be surprised if all parties involved with this problem had a bad board. There are also some reports of shoddy BIOSes on the new ones, try updating or rolling back to an older version.

It's a good board that has worked well with 6800s (and BFGs), just it's quirky and needs some work occasionally. There are, after all, hundreds of people who have gotten this board to work extremely well (most with no work) with the exact same cards.

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.
January 9, 2005 12:18:01 AM

I have not talked with nVidia because nVidia does not accept end users feedback. I have emailed MSI and BFG twice, the first time their reply was standard BIOS settings advices, it did not work, of course. The second e-mail was not replied by BFG and for the second e-mail to MSI i must wait until monday.

My motherboard date is by september, 1.3 BIOS version. I think i am not affected by this lower quality in the last month thing.

I think near the 40% of people with this motherboard are having these issues, the 60% does not apreciate the problem because are running the vga at stock reference speeds. The 99% of people with BFGs are having this problem. This would be because these BFGs are overclocked at default.
January 9, 2005 1:42:55 AM

Quote:
I think near the 40% of people with this motherboard are having these issues, the 60% does not apreciate the problem because are running the vga at stock reference speeds. The 99% of people with BFGs are having this problem. This would be because these BFGs are overclocked at default.

Go to [H]'s forum, I'd take a guess at maybe 4 dozen people have the MSI K8N Plat with a 6800xx very well OCed (all the brands, too). Very few people have had complaints until VERY recently--I think you might have gotten the first boards from the batch.

BTW, it's nowhere near a 40/60 split. :tongue:

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.
January 9, 2005 2:37:52 PM

weeeeee !!!!!! as always it was a power issue!!!

Now i tried to give my gfx its own powerrail from the psu and now it runs gr8!!! even at 425/1150

AMD 2500+ @2145.92Mhz - Volcano9 - A7N8X/DLX - Corsair XMS3200LL 1024MB - GF 3 TI-200 - C: = 2x WD Raptor 10000rpm RAID 0 - D: = 2x WD Caviar 200Gb 7200rpm SATA RAID 0 - Hiper 420w.
January 10, 2005 4:09:19 AM

I am glad you fixed your problem.
I have a Antec Neo Power PSU and i have two dedicated +12v rails to the svga, like you know, i am experiencing these pauses if i overclock the 3d card. I have checked my PSU and it have 18 Amps for the +12V rail. Do you recomend me changing my PSU for an Antec True Power (30 amps in the +12V rail) then?
Thank You very much.
January 10, 2005 3:34:59 PM

would be good to try another psu i think. Mb u can borrow from someone ?

A64 3000+ - MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum - Corsair XMS3200LL 1024MB - Asus 6800GT - C: = 2x WD Raptor 10000rpm RAID 0 - D: = 2x WD Caviar 200Gb 7200rpm SATA RAID 0 - Hiper 420w.
January 10, 2005 5:39:32 PM

OMFG, i hope that my Gainward Extreme will work on my MSI Neo 2 mobo :o 

<A HREF="http://worldwar3d.com/afmod" target="_new">Half-Life2:Armed Forces</A>
January 11, 2005 3:17:48 PM

Just make sure u give it loads of juice ;p

A64 3000+ - MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum - Corsair XMS3200LL 1024MB - Asus 6800GT - C: = 2x WD Raptor 10000rpm RAID 0 - D: = 2x WD Caviar 200Gb 7200rpm SATA RAID 0 - Hiper 420w.
January 14, 2005 4:35:54 PM

Plz let us know when u tried another PSU.

A64 3000+ - MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum - Corsair XMS3200LL 1024MB - Asus 6800GT - C: = 2x WD Raptor 10000rpm RAID 0 - D: = 2x WD Caviar 200Gb 7200rpm SATA RAID 0 - Hiper 420w.
January 15, 2005 12:10:21 PM

I am more and more confused as time passes.
Suddenly the problem has gone, i do not know the cause. I was checking different frequencies for core and vram yesterday. I was thinking, oh well, pauses at stock, lets go and i will try break this damn thing (joking). I was checking high overclocking levels. I reached up to 450/1160 with pauses, i probed then up to 425/1160. At this setting, in the second CPU test in 3D Mark 2003, i got a issue. Note, this was in A CPU PERFORMANCE TEST!!!. The screen was fully corrupted. I closed 3D Mark, the Windows desktop was corrupted too. Of course, a system ram/vram problem (overheating may be). I did a reboot and tried a few more relaxed core and mem setting. This time i was trying 425/1150 and...surprise...no more pauses since. I do not understand any thing about this issue. I was unable to do 425/1100 without those pauses before, now i am able to do 425/1150. In this case, overclocking the vram gave me the needed stability.
I think this issue is a very complex one indeed. Some synchronism between core/ram/agp... and temperature would to influence too. No new PSU, no new heatsink, no new BIOS settings.
What happened to my system to run rock solid now, pushing it beyond their limits?.
Today, i have tested again with same results, no pauses, no issues...
I will keep my fingers crossed.

Thank you and kind regards.
January 17, 2005 12:44:31 PM

Gratz

A64 3000+ - MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum - Corsair XMS3200LL 1024MB - Asus 6800GT - C: = 2x WD Raptor 10000rpm RAID 0 - D: = 2x WD Caviar 200Gb 7200rpm SATA RAID 0 - Hiper 420w.
January 17, 2005 11:21:56 PM

Here is a letter to Tom's hardware:


I'm not sure if you guys are aware of what's going on with the new geforce 6600GT's but they seem to have some serious problems with lots of users. It seems through my testing that there seems to be either a hardware or driver bug preventing Direct3D applications from displaying properly and/or crashing 5-10 minutes after running. The official reference drivers are producing heavy duty artifacts in Direct3D games such as Half life 2, UT2004, etc.(Use 67.05 betas especially if you have an SIS chipset, still crashes though.) However, strangely, OpenGL games and applications run flawlessly for hours and hours without nary a crash on the 10+ official and beta drivers I've tried. This problem is cross platform/manufacturer. ALL companies are experiencing problems with their cards. Just type in "geforce 6600GT AGP problems" in google and you'll see what I mean. There is no fix as of yet but if I can find one I'll let you know. I'm wondering if it's a hardware flaw in some of the GPU's coming from nvidia as it seems to affect all Geforce 6600GT's, not one specific manufacturer and only in direct 3d games. Games like UT2004 which can switch from direct3D to OpenGL crash horribly with Direct3d but when switched to the OpenGL API run flawlessly. Let's hope there is no recall like the Intel math co-processor problem years ago.


System specs:

Asrock ge-m2 mothereboard (SIS chipset)
Pentium 2.4 prescott core CPU
512meg DDR400 infineon Ram
Was a Asus geforce 5700 non-ultra (worked flawlessly with heavy OC'ing)
Now a MSI geforce 6600GT 128 meg DDR-3 nx6600GT VTD128
Western digital 8meg cache drive.
400w power supply

I'm going to take my system in to work so I have the parts to fool around with and see if it's specific to motherboard/power supply, etc. Like I said OpenGL apps like Doom3 run flawlessly. Direct3d seems to be broken. This is just a theory but what it seems to be doing is when you inititally start a Direct3D game it will run ok for a while then the textures and what not will start to corrupt, almost as if it's being heavily overclocked. Then eventually it crashes. I wonder if it's a BIOS flaw that is drawing too much power to the GPU during Direct3d apps and overheating the card. Unfortunatley, the card is so new there is no BIOS revision for any of the cards out there on the market so I can't say one way or another untill I take a look at the heat settings tomorrow. I highly suggest you hold off on this guy untill it is solved it is a fairly wide spread problem. The PCIe version seems to be a little more stable in this regard so maybe the PCIe-AGP bridge chip is causing the problems. Buyer beware. I'm sure it's going to be fixed as it seems ALOT of people are returning these cards and going with something else. Nvidia doesn't want to lose money. Don't buy it untill this issue is solved.


It affects all geforce 6 products. Only in Direct3D though. Strange. Why direct3D would need more power than OpenGL I have no idea.
January 19, 2005 7:12:22 PM

I have to take back that my problem was fixed with more power, but it was reduced 95%

A64 3000+ - MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum - Corsair XMS3200LL 1024MB - Asus 6800GT - C: = 2x WD Raptor 10000rpm RAID 0 - D: = 2x WD Caviar 200Gb 7200rpm SATA RAID 0 - Hiper 420w.
!