Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

9800XT graphics card a lemon?

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
Share
January 13, 2005 4:33:36 PM

I'm going to throw this one out here to see what I catch since I'm sure there are a lot of smart people possibly in the heart of the computer industry that might read this...Without getting into all details yet, and there are a lot...I feel I got ripped off the last time I spent $500 on my last (approx 1yr ago) Asus built 9800XT graphics card. I have read countless problems similar to mine about this card overheating and causing graphical artifacts. One artical right here on THG. In all of the the thousands of dollars I've spent over the years on graphics cards, none have been worse than this 9800XT. I have read some that try to explain it away as some system RAM mis-match, or under powering the graphics card, etc. Bulls**t I say. Too much evidence points to a poorly designed card that overheats. Should I underclock this so-called high performance graphics card to less than factory specs to get it to work right? I wish I still had my problem free 9700 Pro, that surely would out-do an underclocked 9800XT. Why don't they sell them anymore? Makes me wonder. I am seriously thinking about organizing a class action lawsuit. There is a lot of evidence on the internet in countless forums that would back this up. By the way, my new ATI built X800 Pro works flawless. It out-performs the 9800XT with faster clocks and it runs cooler...using exactly the same computer. The 9800XT is a poorly designed product and I want my money back. Oh, Asus declined my warranty. $500 paperweight anyone?

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by mshehan on 01/13/05 01:37 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
January 13, 2005 8:44:45 PM

Hmmm, you've had the exact opposite experience as me with my 9800XTs. My first one only died because of a short somewhere, as evidenced by a burn (and maybe because of the much-too-high clocks I was running without good cooling or added voltage). It also got really blurry before it died (for the few minutes before I saw sparks). Both cards have had very low temps on stock cooling and have NEVER artifacted at stock speeds (my first one was actually a Pro with the XT bios/XT mem/XT PCB--effectively an XT [and worked fine at beyond XT clocks]). Heck, my current one doesn't even artifact at 475/400 (but I have an ATi Silencer 3 now [with a voltmod to 1.91V] and it does crash after about 45 minutes at those clocks, just not artifact :tongue: ). With stock cooling and voltage I could get 432/390 for hours in any game or benchmark.

As for the X800Pro being better than the 9800XT, <b>DUH</b>. It's a twelve pipe card running at higher clocks and on a completely different manufacturing process (.15 vs. .13 low-k is a <b>huge</b> jump). As for the temps being lower, most X800Pros run higher than even my modded 9800XT. This is often due to the fact that the 9800XT's cooling solution (esp. ASUS's) was better!

As for your 9800XT and your pissyness, stfu. You got a bum card--you should have made the problem seem bigger was than it was from the beginning if you wanted your warranty honored. And as for the 9700Pro equalling 9800XT's performance, the clocks on the 9700Pro would need to be higher than those on the 9800XT due to the tightened memtimings on the XT; could your 9700Pro reach particularly high clocks? Doubt it. And how much did you need to underclock your card? Any more than 5/5 means you're still running high clocks that no 9700Pro can reach without H2O and vmods. Any more than 5/5 also means it's your fault for not getting your money back/getting an exchange. Beleive it or not, ASUS is actually very gracious if you explain your problem and embellish a bit.

Oh, and please don't get your period all over the couch, it's a bitch to clean up.

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.
a b U Graphics card
January 13, 2005 9:05:12 PM

The most important thing to remember with ASUS R9800s is that their SmartDoctor program plays havoc with people's overclocks.

As for the R9800XT in general I agree with Vapor, it's a solid card, the only thing you could gripe about with the ASUS is ASUS and their version of this card. I've heard alot of complaints from ASUS owners, but they all relate to one thing Overclocking. Once SmartDoctor's removed most people go on to have a good experience, of course that may be limited to my experiences at B3d and Rage3D (if you can call that limiting).

I doubt you have a leg to stand on for a class action suit, but hey you're in the US you don't have to do much to get a lawyer to try and make something out of nothing.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
Related resources
January 13, 2005 9:31:04 PM

Interesting response. I'll be the first to tell you that I am far from a computer hardware wiz, and I have a lot to learn about this stuff. But, I truly beleive there must be issues with the general design of this card. I have spent a lot of time in many forums reading about the same problem that many are having. I will ask you to re-read my post and really think about what I've said. While I may be upset about my situation, I don't beleive I deserve the childish reply I received. I would appreciate any civilzed comments on this situation, and if I'm doing something wrong, I'd like to know. I didn't post here to cry in someone's beer, I thought I'd get intelligent reponses.

You said:
"As for the X800Pro being better than the 9800XT, DUH. It's a twelve pipe card running at higher clocks and on a completely different manufacturing process (.15 vs. .13 low-k is a huge jump). As for the temps being lower, most X800Pros run higher than even my modded 9800XT. This is often due to the fact that the 9800XT's cooling solution (esp. ASUS's) was better!"

Please re-read my first post. I clearly stated that my X800 Pro runs cooler, in all situations, than my Asus 9800XT. Even with a stock cooler on the X800 and no backside heatsink at all, versus the "high-performance" copper heatsink, dual fan, heatpipe cooler on the Asus card. In addition, I run all stock speeds and default settings throughout. The computer configuration hasn't changed, i.e. CPU, P/S, cooling fans, etc. The only difference is the graphics card. Now I know no one can do anything about it here, but at least offer some advice. If I wanted this kind of conversation, I'd go back to high school.
January 13, 2005 9:44:31 PM

Quote:
Interesting response. I'll be the first to tell you that I am far from a computer hardware wiz, and I have a lot to learn about this stuff. But, I truly beleive there must be issues with the general design of this card. I have spent a lot of time in many forums reading about the same problem that many are having. I will ask you to re-read my post and really think about what I've said. While I may be upset about my situation, I don't beleive I deserve the childish reply I received. I would appreciate any civilzed comments on this situation, and if I'm doing something wrong, I'd like to know. I didn't post here to cry in someone's beer, I thought I'd get intelligent reponses.

Did you try tightening the screws at all on the 9800XT's heatsink? Maybe it wasn't mounted properly. I can guarantee you that the PCB design is far superior to ATi's as it not only runs faster clock for clock but also OCs better and was used in all the best OCs of the time. Chances are the cooler was loose since a bad core would be ATi's fault and would just be put into a Pro. Bad memory is a different issue all together and it sounds very unlikely that you had bad memory (did it artifact in 2d on your first boot up?).

Quote:
Please re-read my first post. I clearly stated that my X800 Pro runs cooler, in all situations, than my Asus 9800XT. Even with a stock cooler on the X800 and no backside heatsink at all, versus the "high-performance" copper heatsink, dual fan, heatpipe cooler on the Asus card.

I know, my response is directly to it--look as this part:
Quote:
different manufacturing process (.15 vs. .13 low-k is a huge jump)

. However, the only reason why they can runs those extra pipes and clocks is due to the manufacturing process, but the cards do run hotter as well (only because they can).

I'm saying there is user error on two parts and put my argument in a very hand-waving way before. So here it is in a nice, compact format: 1) Did you try tightening or adjusting the HSF at all? Shipping can often muck those things up--it's DEF worth a try! 2) If in fact the card were bum, you did not do enough to ensure an RMA--there's nothing wrong with shouting and demanding an RMA if your really didn't work. ASUS more often then not will honor your warranty (as long as it's not obvious that you did something to the card).

As for GGA's point about smartdoctor--it's completely right. I only use it every so often to check my voltages (it's surprisingly accurate) and that's it. Always OC with Radlinker, RiveTuner, ATiTools (new version just came out, too), or ATiTool.

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.
January 13, 2005 9:49:14 PM

In addition, here is a link directly to the THG website. This is not definitive, but it supports my case.

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20040216/dual_...

You will see this quote on this page too:

"The overdrive menu shows a temperature of 83°C for the Radeon 9800XT (reference card) during single monitor operation in FS 2004 and 85°C during dual operation."

You will see that the core clock is set to stock specs, and using one monitor, it ran up to 83 deg. celsius. That's 181 deg. fahrenheit in my book. How do you like your eggs?
a b U Graphics card
January 13, 2005 10:10:53 PM

That is running off of different meaurements IIRC.
The Overdrive was not reading the information the same, ATI's detection system uses the 12C addition for the temperature as the BBA sensor is off die and the +12C is used to estimate the core temperatures. Smartdoctor and Rivatuner will give you the actual reading from ASUS which uses a more accurate measurement IIRC. You may want to check into that as there was alot of confusion when this first came out, and you may be reading a 71C and 73C core incorrectly. It's still warm, but then again it might not be accurate.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
January 13, 2005 10:12:30 PM

Quote:
$500 paperweight anyone?

if youre giving it away, i will take it.

"Never underestimate the predictability of Stupidity."
<A HREF="http://www.cameronwilliamson.com" target="_new">-={Psychotic Sociopath.}=-</A>
<font color=blue>R.I.P. O.D.B.</font color=blue>
January 13, 2005 10:15:24 PM

Well it's obvious I'm at a loss here. You all make a lot of sense and I'm taking your advice seriously, aside from the childish remarks. I'm an honest, fair and logical person. I did send my card to Asus for warranty, and they sent it back saying there's nothing wrong, with no information to what extent it was tested. Another thought...those of you that I've corresponded with here have obviously taken certain measures to help this card live. I also understand what you say about the manufacturing process and what roles it plays. Based on this, why does it seem a card was designed to work satisfactorily in only a smaller percentage of systems? Do you offer a four cylinder as a base engine in a Chevette, as well as 454? Obviously the car will be dangerous in the hands of most people. Same goes for any other product. They pushed the limit of that design, possibly too far, and sold as an upgrade from the earlier 9700 Pro. The latest architecture of the X800 works better, with no hitches that I've experienced.
Also, I ditched the Smart Doctor long ago in favor of the ATITool.
From the two responses I've seen so far from this forum, I'd like to think that maybe you two were in the small percentile that have killer rigs that can cope with tthese issues. But where does that leave the rest of us? Thanks anyway.
January 13, 2005 10:19:38 PM

Now and then everyone gets duds but, even i have heard of this problem with a 9800xt, but then again i have heard of problems similier to this about FX5900 and FX5800 never seen a problem with a fx5950.

But hay try RMA it again and make a big fuss this time.

Also Vapor its not the users job in making sure the heat sink is securly tight on the Gfx card thats manufacturers problem so no need to make a point about that.

mshehan ever tried to clean the bum fluff off your heat sink it might cool it down, if your card dident have the problem in the first 6months its usually down to the heatsink being covered in fluff, if it is its your fault mate no one elses you should always look after your equipment and check it monthly.
a b U Graphics card
January 13, 2005 10:26:26 PM

Killer rig!?! Mine's an XP2000+ with an R9600P (that OC's like a Mutha').

My next rig will be a giant leap, but still I never buy the KILLER stuff it's poor use of funds, which can be used on other things like beer, which makes games look far faster than an extra 50mhz on my core, cause my brain's slower.
Also beer has ancillary benifits like it makes my dates look nicer by adding AA/AF and DD! :wink:


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
January 13, 2005 10:27:33 PM

ROFL you CRAZY JOKER.
January 13, 2005 10:29:07 PM

In addition, the heat is not what my problem is. If the thing ran at 1,082 deg. celsius, but worked properly when taxed by modern games, I'd be happy.
Whatever happened to the phrase: "...for the people." ?
Damn, I might as well be lynched. I'm not a disgruntled ex-employee of ATI or Auus, or related to the Kaczynski's. I just don't like almost literally seeing $500 go up in smoke. I have done many of the suggestions given here and many that have not. Again, I'm at a loss.
January 13, 2005 10:29:26 PM

yeha dude youre fuggin crazy man

"Never underestimate the predictability of Stupidity."
<A HREF="http://www.cameronwilliamson.com" target="_new">-={Psychotic Sociopath.}=-</A>
<font color=blue>R.I.P. O.D.B.</font color=blue>
January 13, 2005 10:34:40 PM

After running months with my flawless X800 Pro, I have re-installed the 9800XT several times, with no changes. Dust free, screws tight, latest drivers, latest diagnostics, etc. Still the same. I'm beating a dead horse here. Apologies to all. Good night.
January 14, 2005 3:54:30 AM

Same rig as it ever was, since my 9700 Pro. I'm not running anything out of the ordinary: Stock clocked Athlon 64 3200+, 1GB RAM, one HDD, two CD ROM's, three 80mm case fans, and the graphics card. I'm using an Antec 430 watt P/S. No lights, or neon, or any other crap. This system has been rock solid, other than this issue. Everything is stock clocked. As for selling the 9800XT...anyone can make me a reasonable offer. If you say there's nothing wrong with it, then the price should reflect that. It's much more useful sitting on my desk holding down my notes for me to just give it away. I'd be fine with getting something out of it. I just won't be a geek anymore and throw down $500 the day a new card hits the stores. I'll wait and read reviews and weather the storm before I get burned again.
January 14, 2005 4:37:48 AM

Personally I've never heard of any 9800XT having cooling problems. Everybody occasionally runs into a problem with a particular product that <i>nobody else</i> is experiencing. Maybe you're in that position right now, as I've been in it before. In the end, the 9800XT was a rip-off because it barely performs better than the 9800 Pro; it does offer 256Mb, but who cares? Next time, don't buy the cream-of-the-crop GPU, because it usually has a little brother that performs 90% as well for 30% less money. I'm not being cynical- look at the 6800 Ultra and the 6800GT- case in point.

<A HREF="http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/landing/landingIndex.jsp..." target="_new">DumbLand</A>
January 14, 2005 6:38:47 AM

I've had my Hercules 9800XT for just about a year now and have had no problems with it whatsoever.

"Its only when you look at ants closely with a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames"
January 14, 2005 7:27:26 AM

You are right. Your card is a lemon. Contact Asus, and tell them in no uncertain terms that the performance of the card is unacceptable. At the price premium you paid, you should have a premium card. The way to get it may be to rant and scream at the asus rep.
Most people who have the 9800XT are very happy. You should be to. Make it so.
January 14, 2005 12:40:18 PM

Ok guys, I guess me and the others that have had these problems are a small bunch. Sorry I've wasted your time. Watch for a perfectly premium working Asus A9800XT on eBay, for a premium price. Good day.
!