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geforce6600GT AGP problems all manufact'ers

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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January 17, 2005 11:09:59 PM

Here is a letter to Tom's hardware:


I'm not sure if you guys are aware of what's going on with the new geforce 6600GT's but they seem to have some serious problems with lots of users. It seems through my testing that there seems to be either a hardware or driver bug preventing Direct3D applications from displaying properly and/or crashing 5-10 minutes after running. The official reference drivers are producing heavy duty artifacts in Direct3D games such as Half life 2, UT2004, etc.(Use 67.05 betas especially if you have an SIS chipset, still crashes though.) However, strangely, OpenGL games and applications run flawlessly for hours and hours without nary a crash on the 10+ official and beta drivers I've tried. This problem is cross platform/manufacturer. ALL companies are experiencing problems with their cards. Just type in "geforce 6600GT AGP problems" in google and you'll see what I mean. There is no fix as of yet but if I can find one I'll let you know. I'm wondering if it's a hardware flaw in some of the GPU's coming from nvidia as it seems to affect all Geforce 6600GT's, not one specific manufacturer and only in direct 3d games. Games like UT2004 which can switch from direct3D to OpenGL crash horribly with Direct3d but when switched to the OpenGL API run flawlessly. Let's hope there is no recall like the Intel math co-processor problem years ago.


System specs:

Asrock ge-m2 mothereboard (SIS chipset)
Pentium 2.4 prescott core CPU
512meg DDR400 infineon Ram
Was a Asus geforce 5700 non-ultra (worked flawlessly with heavy OC'ing)
Now a MSI geforce 6600GT 128 meg DDR-3 nx6600GT VTD128
Western digital 8meg cache drive.
400w power supply

I'm going to take my system in to work so I have the parts to fool around with and see if it's specific to motherboard/power supply, etc. Like I said OpenGL apps like Doom3 run flawlessly. Direct3d seems to be broken. This is just a theory but what it seems to be doing is when you inititally start a Direct3D game it will run ok for a while then the textures and what not will start to corrupt, almost as if it's being heavily overclocked. Then eventually it crashes. I wonder if it's a BIOS flaw that is drawing too much power to the GPU during Direct3d apps and overheating the card. Unfortunatley, the card is so new there is no BIOS revision for any of the cards out there on the market so I can't say one way or another untill I take a look at the heat settings tomorrow. I highly suggest you hold off on this guy untill it is solved it is a fairly wide spread problem. The PCIe version seems to be a little more stable in this regard so maybe the PCIe-AGP bridge chip is causing the problems. Buyer beware. I'm sure it's going to be fixed as it seems ALOT of people are returning these cards and going with something else. Nvidia doesn't want to lose money. Don't buy it untill this issue is solved.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by chris123 on 01/17/05 08:13 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
a b U Graphics card
January 18, 2005 12:31:42 AM

Wow someone who just registered 3 minutes before posting this, sounds like a credible source. Yeah, sure!

Quote:
This is just a theory

Actually that would be giving it more credit than it deserves.

Sounds more like you have a problem, and of course it can't be the user at fault, must be some serious flaw in the hardware.

Hmm wonder if you removed old drivers, nah, why do that, it's obviously the chip, it couldn't be something you did of course.

You'll be sure to let us know if Tom's Hardware gives you an answer, probably his Dremel will reply, it's the literate one of the tool box, but man the curse words from that tool!


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
a b U Graphics card
January 18, 2005 1:07:59 AM

Worse yet, been here three minutes and posted this in 3 threads already. Skimming it once made me laugh, but seeing his fairytale two other spots, makes the laughing die out quickly. Maybe we should send him to the others forum searching for the help he needs. :wink:


<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?nam..." target="_new">http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?nam...;/A>

<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?nam..." target="_new">http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?nam...;/A>




<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=3400555" target="_new"> My</A>
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8268935" target="_new">Gamer</A>
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January 18, 2005 1:50:46 AM

Secrets out! Me and this guy work for ATI :eek: 

Intel 3.4 @ 3.9
Epox EP 5EPA+
GeForce 6600GT TDH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
January 18, 2005 11:14:29 AM

It is a know bug with 6600 + SIS motherboards and latest official Forceware driver.
This issue will be fixed in the next Forceware. Try the latest beta Forceware i think it is fixed there too.
January 18, 2005 2:45:14 PM

Solution:
1. OPEN CASE
2. POUR WATER INTO CASE

You sound like an ATI fanboy.


~My VERTO is FLAWLESS~

<font color=green><b><i>Lizards</font color=green></b> do <b>not</b> taste like <b><font color=yellow>chicken</font color=yellow></b>,<b> <font color=yellow>chicken</font color=yellow></b> tastes like <font color=green><b>lizard.</b></font color=green></i>
January 18, 2005 5:01:36 PM

Wow you guys are mature as hell I have 10+ pages of google searching from people with all kinds of problems so either Nvidia is misrepresenting the minimum specs or they having some serious driver probs. As I said in the original post I've tried 67.05(and 20 others) and it fixes the corruption but only temporarily as eventually the card corrupts the textures and freezes up. A product that comes out of the box that can't work on a system with OVER the minimum specs is not a good product. I'm glad some of you have it working, maybe you guys got a good one or the power supply you have is 450w+ or whatever the solution is. If you would read the original Tom's hardware reviews on the 6600's he said that some were manufactured with only 2 pins holding on the heat sinks which would cause serious overheating and crashing, that was months ago. Now that is not the problem but I've only heard ONE possible solution(from kha) no other constructive advice. Thanks for the insults, but I won't need you "HELP" anymore as I've been doing my own tests that confirm probably what's been going on with these boards and it's not a driver issue with any of the recomended driver builds. I would post what's going on with these boards in Direct3D here but what's the point? You've just insulted me instead of offering some helpfull solutions, and yes it has no bearing on the manufacturer. At least it's a simple fix. I was programming the VIC-20 when you kids where still sperm in your daddy's balls so don't tell me that I can't fix computers, some of my clients are having problems with these cards and at least I know what the deal is now. Thanks for nothing.


P.S. If you read my post I just recomended that people beware when buying the card until a definative solution comes along, I never bashed the card it blows the hell out of the equivilent ATI solution. I thought these boards were more filled with re-sellers and computer techs not little kids. Don't worry this is the last post you'll see. Sad, just sad.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by chris123 on 01/18/05 02:18 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
January 18, 2005 5:37:53 PM

yes we believe you. but then again sumone do a google search, just in case but it could be ati propaganda.
January 18, 2005 6:19:21 PM

P.P.S once fixed they are a very good solution, best bang for your buck. At least I can recomend it to my clients again.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by chris123 on 01/18/05 03:20 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
a b U Graphics card
January 18, 2005 6:24:36 PM

Quote:
I've only heard ONE possible solution(from kha) no other constructive advice. Thanks for the insults

Excuse me, but re-read your initial statement? Were you asking for help. Sure didn't sound like it. Sounds like you know it all and came to inform everyone to avoid these cards. If you had come in a bit more humble, saying "Hey guys, I am new here but I have had a problem with my GF6600GT and it seems I am not alone.....Any suggestions?", then you would have got totally different treatment. But coming in as a noob and self proclaimed ultimate reviewer / google searcher who came to save us from making a big mistake, what did you expect, a Big "Thank You Stranger"? Lots of folks here have GF6xxx series cards, but we should listen to a stranger claiming they are cards to avoid?

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=3400555" target="_new"> My</A>
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8268935" target="_new">Gamer</A>
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Pauldh on 01/18/05 03:27 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
a b U Graphics card
January 18, 2005 6:30:11 PM

Quote:
Wow you guys are mature as hell

Well considering that Hell is an ancient concept I'll take that as a compliment; however, you sir, are as mature as American Sponsored Democracy in the Middle East!

Quote:
I have 10+ pages of google searching from people with all kinds of problems

Yeah and you put X800 and problem, or X800 driver + problem, and you still get 10+ pages. Your 'proof' is like the Google war CoolS and I had last year, you can find thousands of entries if you look in google. I can show you 10+ pages on alien abduction + babies, which doesn't mean I believe in <A HREF="http://aliensandchildren.org/TypicalAlienAbduction.htm" target="_new">that tripe</A> either.

Quote:
Now that is not the problem

Then why bring it up? 2 pins is common on many cards, these things aren't for laptops that are going to get banged around unless someone's a knob!

Quote:
but I've only heard ONE possible solution(from kha) no other constructive advice.

You weren't soliciting advice, this was a bogus open letter full of assumptions, wild extrapolations, and basically FUD, and as such you get the response any BS open letter would. You don't want to be scrutinized then send it to the appropriate 'contact us' address and not post in the forum. I'm sure Lars will give you the appropriately sugar coated 'that's nice sonny-boy' letter he probably has in template format by now.

Quote:
I would post what's going on with these boards in Direct3D here but what's the point?

Exactly! What was the point of your first post, a search for help or a bogus assertion without actually going through the effort of backing it up with factual information beyond a freakin' Google search! I doubt you'd even know what's really going on. But since you've figured out smething that no one else in the entire community (from 3Dcenter to B3D) shouldn't you contact wired or someone and get published?

Quote:
I was programming the VIC-20 when you kids where still sperm in your daddy's balls so don't tell me that I can't fix computers,

Good for Freakin' you, I was on P.E.T.s and Apple IIs long before that, and if you consider what you could do on a VIC-20 'programming' then you really need to re-evaluate your abilities.

Quote:
P.S. If you read my post I just recomended that people beware when buying the card until a definative solution comes along

PS if you are in anyway involved with computers then you know what FUD is (the term's been around for almost as long as the VIc-20) and that's a perfect description of what your 'letter' represents. Spaming other thread with it too, simply shows you had no intention of getting help, just the intention of diseminating your BS.

Quote:
Don't worry this is the last post you'll see.

That's the most informative and helpful thing you've written sofar. So you register just to post this BS, see you don't get any kind of warm reception of, oh my lord, WTF, tell us more oh great computer god, and so you're gone. Can't say I'm surprised, but really, who's gonna miss you, you didn't provide any factual information other than google, so I'd say good riddance to bad rubbish.

Oh yeah, BTW, I know the fix for what ails you too: <i>"Press Play on Tape 1"</i> buddy. :tongue:


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
January 18, 2005 6:47:17 PM

ok well just to stop the flame war here are some fixes to the problems that may help some people:

Ok I know some people are having problems with the 6600GT, me included, but after 4 days and 20 drivers revisions and a new power supply its fixed. Here is a compilation of some of the most common problems with this new card. Teething troubles I guess.

Ok here goes:

Problem:
I'm having all sorts of crazy artifacts with my geforce 6600GT with the latest official drivers from Nvidia.

Solution:
The latest build of the official drivers are having problems with these new cards. Most manufacturers ask you to use 67.03(especially if you have an SIS chipset MOBO) or 71.22. This will kill the artifacts and make the card run smoother. go to www.nvplanet.com to download.

Problem:
In OpenGL(doom3 etc.) the card works great however when I play a Direct3D game the card will lock up after 5-10 minutes or sometimes earlier and generally be erratic and crash. It may also go artificially into "power saving mode" with a black screen. What gives?

Solution:
You need a better power supply. The power drain in Direct3D mode is significantly higher than in OpenGL mode. I'm not sure if this is a driver issue or due to the cards design. Even if your power supply meets the minimum 350w requirement it may be old and not as stable. Because the AGP version needs a molex power plug into the card to supply the card with extra juice it is a significant drain on the power supply. If your power supply is even a little wonky it will crash the card. You can temporarily UNDERCLOCK the card to reduce the power drain and see if it works. Also making sure that the power connector is only plugged into the card.

Problem:
The card is getting really low FPS, lower than the card I just upgraded from.

Solution:
Did you plug in the molex power connector into the back of the card? The 6600 series needs extra juice to run at full clock. The connector to plug in the power cord is near the top of the card farthest away from where you plug in your monitor.

Well I hope this helps to avoid you guys going through some pain. Thanks,

Chris




P.S. I will press play on tape 1 only if I can play Omega race, the non-cartridge version! :-)<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by chris123 on 01/18/05 05:59 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
a b U Graphics card
January 18, 2005 7:44:37 PM

Now that's a good post!

That's more of what we'd expect, it doesn't claim general issues for an entire core and tell people to avoid them and it gives good details and constructive information.

Quote:
Did you plug in the molex power connector into the back of the card? The 6600 series needs extra juice to run at full clock.

Remember that's only for the AGP version, the PCIe version gets more than enough juice over the 75W PCIe connector, whereas AGP only delivers 25-35W.

Now GF6600 users gotta digest the info.

Perhaps there is a contribution you can make. :lol: 


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
January 18, 2005 8:46:47 PM

Quote:
Well considering that Hell is an ancient concept I'll take that as a compliment; however, you sir, are as mature as American Sponsored Democracy in the Middle East!

OUCH :smile:
January 18, 2005 8:58:46 PM

Oh yes sorry, The great ape is right with the AGP version ONLY do you need to plug in the molex connector. The reason the PCIe version is seemingly more "stable" out there in the forums is as the great ape says PCIe can supply the appropriate amount of power without needing extra juice from the power supply itself through a molex connector. It would be a great idea if Nvidia put a little link or something to common troubleshooting FAQ's but I haven't seen it yet. The majority of problems I've been seeing other than the driver issue which is fixed at 67.03 and 71.22(others in there as well)is mainly power supply. Some people before they upgraded were perfectly fine with all their stuff plugged in at as low as 250w. Some people like me, even had a 350w power supply which depending on which manufacturer is OVER the required specs. But because its a transfering technology untill we all just get PCIe we will have to put up with the teething problems. Just like those socket to slot conversion daughterboards would sometimes give people headaches years ago remember that mess?
January 19, 2005 12:19:57 AM

Nividia wouldent put the link on there site, as its upto the manufacturer to which u purchased your card from who should offer that support. like asus or bfg look in product support.
a b U Graphics card
January 19, 2005 1:36:01 AM

Yeah I think with regards to PSUs we are going to enter a stage where the mid-level cards/buyers are going to have to start thinking the way we were talking about R9800XT and FX5950Ultras, etc.

PSU quality has alot to do with it, there's been a few discussions of that around here. The sad thing is those people who buy a 'lesser' name 400-450W PSU and think it's good enough, but it's up rated, and really doesn't even supply 400W at room temperature, ;et alone the 35-40c that is all more common in rigs these days (warm CPUs and GPU that are constantly at ~60+c).

Now is the time for the Fortron sponsors to speak up. :lol: 

Personally I'm a PC Power&Cooling and Enermax fan.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
January 19, 2005 3:22:32 AM

Your sig should be Google-Master.

Your experiences alone do not make a worldwide dilemma in the video market, nor does it make nVIDIA the reason for your problems. YOU broadcast your problem as if it's EVERYONE'S problem and apparently all nVIDIA's fault.

I would guess by the content of your posts, your programming was the demise of the VIC-20.

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