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ATI fanboys screaming in fear.. I'm BACK!

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February 11, 2005 6:19:01 AM

Allow me to introduce myself. This is the infamous kinney. Loved by some and hated by more.

I'm probably not coming back for the mere fact that I will be banned within a short time period of what would most likely be a ATI fanboys worst nightmare.

I just wanted to say whats up to all my old homies who I havent talked to in a long time.. and a big FU to a bitch or two.

Heres what I'm wiping ATI cards faces in a big pile of feces with these days:
Athlon 64 3200+ Winchester @ 2.5ghz stable
Asus A8N SLI Deluxe
1GB Geil DDR500
2x BFG 6800GT OCs
550watt Fortron Source PSU
2x160GB Maxtor Diamondmax Plus 9 drives in RAID-0 (320GB)
Dell 2005FPW LCD 12ms panel
That should be all the important stuff.. its all wrapped up in a Antec Superlanboy case.
I use the dell LCD speakers sometimes, but have become accustomed to using headphones over the years.. so I use a Sennheiser PC150 headset (mic/headphones). I have a few other Sennheiser sets ordered as well to try out.

Currently I get about 8.5k bungholio marks in 3dmark '05.. but I was never one to care about that shat.
I can play any game@ 1680x1050 (widescreen resolution) with 4xAA and 16xAF (and higher) and thats all i was looking for.

I'm on MSN for those who use it, so if you are an old timer and remember me.. PM me or ask CS for my info.

Heres some pics: <A HREF="http://home.mchsi.com/~mwkinney/index.html" target="_new">http://home.mchsi.com/~mwkinney/index.html&lt;/A>
The monitor speakers are not attached tho in that pic. And my power cables arent very well organized.
I'm swapping out the Asus board for the DFI NF4 SLI once they become more available, I'm going to make everything all pretty when I get that board in.

My only question is, where in the hell has spud been? Havent seen that good old boy online for-like-evah?

Hope some of you decide to add me to your MSN Mess list.. I miss corrosponding with some of you. I've been in a forum or two, but have gotten into the mode of using them when I need info only.. and keep the small chat on the IM.


It feels wierd stretching out in a forum dominated by ATI fanboys.
I'm eager to hear how crappy my devastating SLI rig is.
:D 

I kinda wish I'd been around to gloat to the few American liberals that exist on this board about the glorious defeat of john kerry and the reelection of one of the greatest Presidents ever, George W Bush. We're still dominating.

On a serious note, I do hope life is treating you all good and delivering what you expected.
Even though, its pretty much what you make it!
February 11, 2005 7:33:21 AM

You need to grow up and speak a more proper manner. Who really cares what type of computer set up you have?
February 11, 2005 7:41:05 AM

Why did you get Athlon64 3200+? You should've got Prescott 2.4A, which is the greatest CPU on earth.

------------
<font color=orange><b><A HREF="http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox" target="_new">Rediscover the web</A></b></font color=orange>
February 11, 2005 7:50:16 AM

Quote:
Why did you get Athlon64 3200+? You should've got Prescott 2.4A, which is the greatest CPU on earth.

I dont know if you are being serious, but I went with the 3200+ for the 10x multi for easier overclocking, this board hasnt been totally cooperative as I'd hoped.

I knew it wasnt the best for OC'ing but thats another reason I went for the 10x multi, that and I wasnt too sure how far that memory would go.
February 11, 2005 7:54:14 AM

Quote:
You need to grow up and speak a more proper manner. Who really cares what type of computer set up you have?


"A more proper manner"?
WTF? Should I also partake in tea and crumpets, etiquette queen?

Lots of people do, bitch. Now run off before I get my pimp hand warmed up.
February 11, 2005 8:14:12 AM

Nice rig.

But... Anyone who blindly follows the one company - whichever one it is... is a moron.

I have a 9800Pro. It works great. before that, I had a Ti4600. That worked great too. No idea what the next one will be. Possibly a 6800GT, maybe not. I'll see how they stack up.

Now stop foaming at the mouth please. You're making a scene.

---
"Sex without love is an empty experience...
But as empty experiences go, it's one of the best" - Woody Allen
February 11, 2005 9:02:19 AM

why not foam at the mouth? I'm not sticking around anywayz :) 
just poppin in to say hello.

Why you waiting to see how they stack up? we already know.
most ppl that are getting in on this gen have done so already, even tho its been hard to get some of these cards (esp ATI) until very lately.

i like the x800xl but just get a kick out of all the ATI fanboys who have held out till this one since their pre existing line sucks balls compared to the GF6 line.

but x800xl is the only one i'd consider, and thats only if it was actually selling for msrp here in the states.

i think most ppl would agree with that assessment overall. but no one on this god forbidden forum would admit that.

i still wouldnt want to give up SM3.0, no matter if its useless or not... and if you are upgrading from a older rig like my old one.. you are prob going to go PCIE, so i see no reason to not get a SLI rig.. its like $50 f'n bucks if you live here in the USA.. NOT alot of money.
worth it, even if you dont think you will use the SLI capability.


i can tell you now though, that SLI rocks.
it was a decent launch with good driver support, it needs work but it DOES work and gives decent performance gains for first gen SLI hardware and software.

I think alot of people "convienently" forget this fact about SLI. Its freaking awesome for essentially beta drivers and 1st gen SLI hardware. No doubt about this.

I'd suspect that i could run a much higher resolution with lots of AA/AF with it.

No one is blindly following any company here, Nvidia is clearly the superior. SM3.0/SLI and awesome OGL/Linux/64bit driver support, head and shoulders above ATIs (in all departments)..
thats not blind my friend!
Its just the damn truth.
in fact, i was scoping some posts and noticed even phial admitted that ati xp gui acceleration was lacking, and that even though it pained him to admit it, ati drivers soemtimes suck.
indeed they do. a good friend of mine has the x800pro, gotta love that bloated .net crap they are putting out there.. ya u can turn it off but its just more typical ATI BS.

Thanks for the rig compliment.
February 11, 2005 11:40:11 AM

dont take offence game but you act like a prick.
February 11, 2005 11:45:12 AM

Well euh GAME, or whatever your name is... You can't just say ATi sux or Nv is king of the hill or something. Both sides have very good products and both have cards that perform very good their classes.
As for the SLi part, well your true about that. Nv has a lead with that atm, and ATi will have to do a lot of catching up if they want to pass Nv. As I can remember from a while ago, Nv has bought the SLi technology from another company a long while time ago, so ofcourse they are ahead with that. But with single cards ATi's top product is still slightly faster than Nv's top. I'm not a fanboy from either side. I just buy whats best for me at that time. I still have a 9600 Pro for now, but i'm going to get myseld one of those new Gainward 6800's with SLi. I decided to switch to SLi, because I can always add the 2nd card later, when I need it. As for now I have more than enough power with one of them. And as for you as a person..you're whining about ATi fanboys, but you're a freakin' Nv-fanboy yourself. You know... there's a saying about that.. :) 
btw does someone know if its true that Nv doesn't support AA-6x? I've read that somewhere, would be a bit strange if thats true.

<A HREF="http://www.forsaken-game.com/" target="_new">Half-Life2:Forsaken</A><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by DeathClock on 02/11/05 08:49 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
February 11, 2005 1:19:09 PM

Welcome back Kinney....too bad not many people will know you (like a few who have already posted).

Anyway, you probably will be banned shortly, but have fun in the meantime!

Glad to see SLI workin' for ya, I'm definitely looking into it for my next system this summer.

Quick question, how's the 2005FPW? I'm really interested in getting a pair of widescreen 20" LCDs and don't know which to get.

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.
a b U Graphics card
February 11, 2005 1:46:39 PM

No way, you're back. I don't have the time to start arguing again. :wink:

I've often wondered if you still lurk around these forums. Anyway, funny how those posting so far have no idea how normal you've acted so far. I understood Spity's remark because shortly before you left here you were gung ho on the Scottie 2.4 OC chip. I'm now an A64 man myself because of current pricing and the great OC'in mobos now.

Anyway, nice rig there; huge increase over the last K7S5A AXP right. I hope you didn't spend a fortune on those PCI-e 6800GT's though. The AGP 6800GT has been the best buy in high end so far for sure. But one of my biggest beefs with SLI from the start was paying $200 for a mobo, and $100-150 more for each GF6800GT (compared to AGP). It's nice to see them come down in price a little lately. Personally, with how SLI is limited to games with a profile, and hardware has been so expensive up til now, I'd prefer to save money on a single X850XTpe solution as it's the leader still in most games. But I jumped early on a K8N Neo2 platinum and 3000+ Winchester because I just had to start OC'in an A64 for myself, and keeping the 9800 pro was the cheapest way there. No regrets as the mobo is sweet, although I quickly wished I had gone with a 3200+ Winchester instead for the multiplier factor in overclocking.

Anyway, welcome back for however short it may be.






<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=3400555" target="_new"> My</A> <A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8268935" target="_new">Gamer</A>
February 11, 2005 1:53:31 PM

Why do Nvidia fanboys always think everyone else is an ATI fanboy?

It's nothing to do with Fanboyism. The GeforceFX series sucks ass and always has, still does. Recognizing the facts doesn't make anybody a fanboy though.

But the 6xxx series is awesome and everyone here recommends it heartily. The 6600GT is probably the most recommended card here, just look at the posts over the last 3 months or so. I don't think anyone's ever recommended a 9800 PRO over a 6600GT, unless it was much cheaper.

We recommend based on best for the price here, Kinney... not on which company's lap dog we are.

9600 PROs, used 9700 PROs, 6600GT's, 6800's, 6800GTs, X800XLs, and 6800 U's/X800XTs, X850XTs... all of these cards get recommended here, and nobody takes slack for it.

The only people who get slack are blind fanatical corporate logo-fellaters... ;) 

P.S. Nice rig, dude.


________________
<b>Radeon <font color=red>9700 PRO</b></font color=red> <i>(o/c 332/345)</i>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>3200+</b></font color=red> <i>(Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)</i>
<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>5,354</b>
February 11, 2005 2:02:41 PM

Got to agree there...

<b>To Kinney:</b>
What I meant to say was that I haven't really put the amount of research in that I would do, were I about to buy another rig. provisionally a 6800GT looks like a good buy, but I might end up with a x800-based card. That's just because I'm <i>impartial</i>... I don't prefer one brand over another, I look at each choice on its own merits, and compare that with what I want to do...

Although I will admit that nvidia's drivers (IQ and cheating floptimizations aside) are generally a bit nicer, particularly with regard to multi-monitor support and tv-out type things (neither of which I bother with at home, so they don't matter a jot)

---
"Sex without love is an empty experience...
But as empty experiences go, it's one of the best" - Woody Allen
February 11, 2005 2:03:20 PM

Yo game you old dawg. How you been? Nice rig you have there.The biggest cry babies are the kerry turds. What a bunch of two your olds. How's that dell monitor working for you? I've heard pros and cons. Price is right. Seems to be working well for you.
February 11, 2005 4:58:29 PM

What up Game? No, I want around when you were here, but I did run into an old post that you were the main topic of. I dont really even remember what was said. Anyway, I am curious as to what it was that got you banished from the gloryland :lol:  Well, take her easy, or any other way you can get her :tongue:

READ THE STICKY AND WIN A PRIZE! ALL PRIZES CAN BE CLAIMED IN THE SECTION TITLED "THE OTHER"
February 11, 2005 5:29:17 PM

Quote:
Welcome back Kinney....too bad not many people will know you (like a few who have already posted).

Anyway, you probably will be banned shortly, but have fun in the meantime!

Glad to see SLI workin' for ya, I'm definitely looking into it for my next system this summer.

Quick question, how's the 2005FPW? I'm really interested in getting a pair of widescreen 20" LCDs and don't know which to get.


Alot of ppl seem interested in this panel, and for good reason.
I'd heartily recommend it, but be warned, some of them have aweful backlight bleed through issues.

I think it was isolated to the early runs like mine (even though I came out well on this), but it was pretty bad for some people.

I would buy it regardless because it really isnt THAT big of a deal to me.. no LCD was known to be great for reproducing blacks.

The panel is great in every game, but Doom3.. but while the Doom3engine owns all.. the game itself does not. So I'm hoping Quake4 wont be as dark.
Doom3 is a little extreme, and doesnt look great on any LCD.. but it is playable without annoyance.


There is no ghosting whatsoever with this panel, it is exactly like using a CRT.

My favorite part is the widescreen for games, it draws a whole lot more onscreen than 4:3 resolutions as seen here: <A HREF="http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49242" target="_new">http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49242&...;/A>
scroll about halfway down, you'll see the comparison.

Then take into account that Longhorn is being designed for widescreens and for myself at least, I couldnt go for a 4:3 screen again. <A HREF="http://www.longhornblogs.com/akinney/archive/2004/07/13..." target="_new">http://www.longhornblogs.com/akinney/archive/2004/07/13...;/A>

You should be able with coupons to pickup this lcd for about $500-600.. and any within that range is a immediate steal.

I like the apple cinema displays as well if you want a bigger display such as 23" or 30". But they cost a whole lot more than these 2005s. But I can attest to their quality.

I do hope some of you add me to your MSN lists as I like corrosponding with you and sharing advice.

Now if anyone can find me a DFI NF4 SLI board my rig would be set.. i think i can pull more than 2.5ghz out of this A64.
February 11, 2005 5:34:13 PM

actually, i'd say ati has much better tv output. at least in my experience.. i could be wrong.

nv does have the better multimonitor support.. thats been long standing like ATI's tv output.

personally, i prefer one screen becuase if i had two i'd have to go buy another widescreen lcd and my desk is alittle small as you can see.
February 11, 2005 5:39:21 PM

That's not kinney. It's a different writing style than what was seen months ago. Someone is just trying to get attention for someone else's stupidity.

And wasn't Kinney an Intel fanboy?

Athlon 2500-M @ 2.64 GHZ
BBA AIW 9700 PRO
512MB 2.5 Mushkin
80 GB WD HD 8MB cache
a b U Graphics card
February 11, 2005 5:47:04 PM

Quote:
i can tell you now though, that SLI rocks.
it was a decent launch with good driver support, it needs work but it DOES work and gives decent performance gains for first gen SLI hardware and software.

First gen blues, eh? Like the R9700P getting rave reviews? Or, is it more like the FX in that it needs alot of help to work and has only limited benifits and acceptance? :evil: 

Anywhoo, nice looking rig, personally the antithesis of what I would go for in the graphics choice (too hot/noisey/power-hungry/and 2 power cables to gum up the works).

I'd still stick with either a single GF6800GT or X800XL (which has all the power characteristics I like). I think next gen will offer even more with the 150wPCIe slots and more efficient architectures.

Good luck with the new rig, the DFI is a cool looking board, I've been considering it for the next upgrade, but I'll probably stick with the Gigabyte equivalent. Also nice LCD panel, dhlucke just picked one up for his next rig. Not sure about the SuperFanboi Case though, oh wait, sorry misread that, it just seemed like a perfect fit. :tongue:

Anywhoo, pick a better nickname and stick around a while, but drop the BS Fanboism, CoolS is good enough for that role and far more entertaining. Also, there's far more similarities between the two now than differences, unlike last generation.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
February 11, 2005 5:47:55 PM

i had a k7s5a back in the day, but i went from a epox NF2 actually.

i'd forgotten about the 2.4 prescott.. not a bad chip by any means.. i just put SLI as my top priority and intel couldnt help me there yet.

i like the 9800 pro, of course..
i just hate it when these thigns happen:

people dont recommend the 6600gt over the 9800 pro (i think its the hands down choice between the two when purchasing new)
people say sli sucks, when knowledgable people who have it love it

the 3200 was a last second decision for me, i was wondering about it myself, but decided for the extra $50 premium, why not.

i'm not too happy with my 2.5ghz OC and i think this asus is at fault. its a rock solid board, but i'd recommend to anyone building a new system to go DFI whenever possible.

i would have, but their availability was very small when I built and it is still hard to get the true SLI model.

of course, all this new stuff is expensive.. but that goes with the territory.

im a pretty good shopper, and got everything you see for $1500 new (not including the flatpanel which i picked up for $535 shipped w/tax).

all i can say is, i love the internet tax ban Prez Bush placed for another 6 years and gotta love my Red State tax rate of 5% that applied only to my hard drives that I picked up both for $70 from office depot.


i'm tellin ya, any of you old hombres shoudl add me to your MSN lists so i dont have to come back here to speak to the few that i actually care to contact.

then the rest wont have to listen to me :) 
February 11, 2005 6:10:14 PM

sorry i do not entertain you GGA.. that was the first thing on my list.

it IS good to hear from you though.

i can tell you though, that it actually is not very hot or noisy.. and the power requirements.. well, who would build a modern rig without getting a high quality, powerful PSU like mine even for a single slot rig? it'd be stupid to not get 400watt+

but both of my 6800GTs run pretty cool and my case stays cool.. maybe its jsut my personal setup that makes it work so well, but i dont htink its anything special.

i just think the heat/power thing is overblown. :smile: in fact, i dont think it is, i know it is!


but theres nothing wrong with the x850 or regular 6800GT options.. those would be mine if i were to go single slot.. i'd go GT because of the possibility of a SLI upgrade.. and there will prob be a bigger market that will desire it when you sell one because theres alot of ppl out there with SLI mobos that will gladly take it off your hands for a good price.
plus i'd hate to give up SM3.0/purevideo and the NV drivers and their attributes.. no matter how useless it might be in somes opinion.


to each his own.. i just hope everyone across the web feels the same way about SLI when ATI releases theirs.
we'll see about that.



the case was actually my only choice, i wanted front port mic/headphones and wanted the plugs to be in the middle of the case in the front.

i looked at some other cases like the tsunami dream (bad name for a recently announced case eh?) but the ports were on the top and in a little compartment.. that kinda pissed me off cuz i put alot of stuff on the top of my case sometimes and i also use headphones everytime i game.
aluminum was also something i was ready to move too.

word about the x800xl.. its a nice choice, but again has the same downfalls of the x850.. i'd just go with the x850 myself if one was willing to go x800xl.

at least get something smokin if you are going to give up NV drivers, SM3.0 and the possibility of SLI.
February 11, 2005 8:03:09 PM

Quote:
Alot of ppl seem interested in this panel, and for good reason.
I'd heartily recommend it, but be warned, some of them have aweful backlight bleed through issues.

I think it was isolated to the early runs like mine (even though I came out well on this), but it was pretty bad for some people.

I would buy it regardless because it really isnt THAT big of a deal to me.. no LCD was known to be great for reproducing blacks.

The panel is great in every game, but Doom3.. but while the Doom3engine owns all.. the game itself does not. So I'm hoping Quake4 wont be as dark.
Doom3 is a little extreme, and doesnt look great on any LCD.. but it is playable without annoyance.


There is no ghosting whatsoever with this panel, it is exactly like using a CRT.

My favorite part is the widescreen for games, it draws a whole lot more onscreen than 4:3 resolutions as seen here: http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49242
scroll about halfway down, you'll see the comparison.

Then take into account that Longhorn is being designed for widescreens and for myself at least, I couldnt go for a 4:3 screen again. http://www.longhornblogs.com/akinney/archive/2004/07/13...

Alright, that sold it....unless Apple can get some more inputs on their panels before July.
Quote:
You should be able with coupons to pickup this lcd for about $500-600.. and any within that range is a immediate steal.

It's normally $750, but Dell has 10% off now so it's down to $675, which is a GREAT price, IMO (I was gonna go with two NEC/Mitsubishi 22" CRTs, but that'd be a bitch to deal with for obvious reasons and now these are the exact same price!). How/where do you get it down in the $500s???
Quote:
I like the apple cinema displays as well if you want a bigger display such as 23" or 30". But they cost a whole lot more than these 2005s. But I can attest to their quality.

I'd love for two Apple displays, but while price isn't a huge issue, a huge price difference is (so are features, the 2005 is faster than the Apple 20" and has S-Video in).
Quote:

I do hope some of you add me to your MSN lists as I like corrosponding with you and sharing advice.

I would if I had MSN....maybe I should get on that.
Quote:
Now if anyone can find me a DFI NF4 SLI board my rig would be set.. i think i can pull more than 2.5ghz out of this A64.

Glad I'm not in the process of upgrading now as that is and most likely will be THE board to get for quite some time (unless ATi's chipset can support AMR and SLI equally well as early indications show that it's actually better at overclocking, especially in respect to memory).

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.
a b U Graphics card
February 11, 2005 8:06:23 PM

Quote:
to each his own.. i just hope everyone across the web feels the same way about SLI when ATI releases theirs.

I'm getting an SLI or AMR enabled rig, but for me it's not for the performance boost but for the Multi-Monitor possibilities (always has been my personal primary reason for PCIE), in which case the X800XL or GF6800GT + GF6800standard would likely be better suited. As for the heat and power issues, I'll stick with the Beyond3D and others' indications 'til something else displaces them.

The PSU will be an issue for those who just finished buying a 400W for their last cards and thought THAT would last a while.

We've discussed the GT SLI upgrade and considering the price and limited boost, you may get a far better boost from selling the GT, and taking the money you were going to spend on another GT, and then buying the top of the mid-range or the bottom of the enthusiast section. I'd say a GT or standard version of the NV50 may make more sense at the time than an SLI solution. I still see no compelling reason yet, just like [H] mentioned, until there's more applications that get supported right now it's not THAT impressive since it doesn't offer THAT much more boost. It does well with AA/AF turned up high, and likely well suited for your monitor, but I still think it's pretty niche. I doubt AMR or Alien's ALS would change that.

But really if it's even a niggling potential interest it makes SLI or a modable Ultra on a MoBo a considerably attractive item (even for me and my application). The one thing I can thank SLI for is getting dual graphics slotted MoBos to market quickly.

The case requirements are similar to mine, while I'd prefer a Cube I'm thinking more along the lines of the CoolerMaster Stacker, which is definitely more than most peeople need from a case (Mmm many silent 120mm whisper fans veruss a bunch of whiney 80-90mm ones :cool: ).

I am with you on the Headphones. Either mine are plugged into the HotWheels PC Speaker jack or the Rig itself. Even on the editing rig I have heaphones plugged into the Audigy instead of listening to the speakers (Klipsch).

Quote:
word about the x800xl.. its a nice choice, but again has the same downfalls of the x850

I don't see that. What exactly is it you're equating between the two?

The X800XL doesn't require the power connector, it runs cooler, performs better than the standard x850 and far better than the x850PRo , but easilty below the X850XT and X850XTPE, but they require far mre juice and create much more heat and noise, with the PE also having the 2 slot drawback, which isn't a drawback if you're going to abslute power, but is a drawback if you don't need it.

Quote:
purevideo and the NV drivers and their attributes.. no matter how useless it might be in somes opinion

Still no HW acceleration, until the next batch. :lol: 

Anywho right now the biggest drawbacks for both lines seems to be availability. For the ATI it's a whole mess of cards, except the X850s, and for nV it's most of the PCIe cards (the AGPs have been getting some great deals for people in the forum [Pauldh and HardwareBoss]). I'm just dissapointed that for the most part however we are still seeing alot of prices well above MSRP even this far intot the new generation. I hope that changes because I really don't want to spend the price of a new pair of top of the line Ski Boots (Salomon Xwave-10) for a MID-range graphics card! :mad: 

Heck I don't have enough time to game right now, why would I waste that kind of money because of stupid supply shortages!?!

Unless they launch surround-gaming support this weekend, then I have no motivation to upgrade immediately.

Anywhoo enjoy the rig, and get your ass folding for someone so that somebody can benifit from that power when you're not.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
February 11, 2005 8:57:03 PM

hehe thanks.

well right now im actually using cool n quiet (works for me while overclocking, i know some have bad issues with this) and i'm at 1volt and 1ghz. :smile:

u dont sound like a candidate for SLI ever really. i'm going to replace this 6800GT SLI with NV50(or whatever its called) SLI.

in my case, and predicament, it doesnt matter. i just want the fastest setup i can have.. preferably with SM4.0 (NV50 stuff) so that it will last a very long time with longhorns release.

thats why im going to do the upgrade thing one more time in 2006/7 before a pretty long haul. with dualcore and update my SLI.. both on the longhorn release of course whenever that happens.

if you are into headphones, and can get headphones from amazon.com.. i'd highly recommend this deal <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/feature/-/554375/1..." target="_new">http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/feature/-/554375/1...;/A>
u need both the 497s and mx400s to be instock, and they've been going in and out of stock alot for a few weeks since the deal started.. but you can get the sennheiser hd497 and senn mx400 earbuds for a measly $42 shipped!
i mainly wanted the earbuds for talk radio that i listen to while im at school.
earbuds give you that low profile look that i prefer.

just for reference, those 497s go for $70@radioshack alone. i've heard them and they are quite a bit better than my senn pc150s. they are not replacing them though, as i love my mic in my games.. and the soudn quality difference makes a difference mainly only in music, not games.






i'll address some things you asked in your reply.
about the x800xl.. its nice, when its goign for msrp.. but most ppl who would buy something like this probably already picked up a 6800gt agp. so going to pcie and moving to what is nearly the same speed doesnt make alot of sense.

im just saying that if i were to put a new pcie rig together, make a real jump and go for teh x850xt pe.. which i admit is a bad ass card. the only ATI i'd touch right now. AFAIK it can beat the SLI rigs in HL2. I think its pretty close to even, but even considering thats "ATI's game" i was impressed.. and I'm an NV boi all the way.

CSS is MY game btw :smile: as you remember i was a old skool CS player when you USED TO MAKE FUN OF ME for it. :smile:
so believe me when i say i strongly considered this gen of ATI cards.

i just decided to get parallel performance or above in all games with the SLI rig.. that i put together for what came out to be not that much more than the x850 ($400 more for me, nothing im going to worry about... what else would that money be going to if i didnt spend it there? food? clothes? PFFT!). seriously, i can have some dumb clothes or killer PC parts. easy decision for me.


on purevideo, the 6800s have partial purevideo (MPG). 6600s have full acceleration (WMV HD/MPG). but i dont care about that stuff anyway.
as you'll see in my page, i've got a decent 32" WEGA, TIVO, digital cable and sony dvd player that does just fine for that kind of stuff.



if you are into surround gaming, have you tried that stereovision thing? I know some ppl swear by it.

widescreen gaming is enough for me, nice FOV. even that requires some serious horsepower as it draws much more onscreen at a given resolution
February 11, 2005 9:09:24 PM

:smile:
Once most ppl see the difference from fullscreen to widescreen they usually change tunes. Esp for games/movies.
U can see in my shots how much is shown in webpages if you rotate a widescreen.. its amazing.

IIRC the natural human eye FOV is closer to 2:1 than to anything else.. and if you examine how you look at the world it really is about twice as wide as tall..

you have a ton of peripheral vision and not a whole lot of vertical without moving your eyes or head.
thats why widescreen feels so natural. you can just concentrate on the center and it just feels right.


on the price, i'd shoot for $600 shipped.
i got mine before xmas, and they had a $40 coupon and a 25% all LCD Dellf deal.. u combined both and it came to $575.. but IIRC i called dell to change something and they kept transferring me all around.. so I pretty much was on the phone for 4 hours for a 10second deal.. and i complained and got another $40 off.

but i'd buy again in a second at $600 or below, 675 is OK but you can do better sometimes.


i was between this and those (now) discontinued diamondtron 22" CRTs.. after reading about the widescreen... and then accounting in the heavy weight and size issues I just couldnt not go with the LCD.


the best purchase in the last 10 years for me has been my LCD.. im serious this thing is superb with the DVD and cleartype enabled. i'll never use CRT again, and you'll agree soon that those who defend CRTs are IGNORANT.

CRTs will soon be only for photoshop professionals with 12ms panels coming out like this one with great color reproduction.

esp since the good CRTs ARE discontinued, those diamondtrons.

those things were beautiful, and tho LCDs arent yet perfect (as if CRTs were perfect....) they are a definite thing to consider when you need to get a new screen.
a b U Graphics card
February 11, 2005 10:25:38 PM

Quote:
just hate it when these thigns happen:

people dont recommend the 6600gt over the 9800 pro (i think its the hands down choice between the two when purchasing new)
people say sli sucks, when knowledgable people who have it love it


Hey, you've missed alot, practically everyone around here would recommend a 6600GT over a 9800 pro when priced the same or close. Back when the AGP 6600GT was $50 over the 9800 pro, it was a different story. I take it one farther though and say look for a GF6800 on sale. I've seen them for $200, being a better deal than the 6600GT or 9800 pro. All are good cards but there is no question 6800>6600GT>9800pro, so it all comes down to price.

I've wanted a HIS X800XTpe or plain X800XT, but prices have been so high that I assumed my next card would be when a deal comes along again on a 6800GT. As it turns out, I just got a BFG 6800Ultra OC because at $350, I couldn't resist. I mean an Ultra OC for the price of a 6800GT or X800pro...easy choice really. Anyway, That's more my kind of deal than $1000 on two PCI-e 6800GT's, especially seeing how in some/many games it's faster even. Seeing how my mobo cost $50 less than the SLI mobos did when introduced, and I saved $650 on the video cards, I have $700 in my pocket for when the 6800U starts to show it's age. By that time, I can buy a new mobo and top of the line card for that money which will probably be far superior than any current SLI setup would be by then. Anyway, not knocking your system as if you have the money, it's very nice for sure. Just not a good bargain IMO, hence the route I took. And I think this goes with Grapes plans too, as a single X800XL once they are $300, will game well for a while and save money for a next gen video upgrade. I don't really see the advantage of a 6800GT planning on another one in SLI someday, with an option like this, except for the multimonitor support. But I don't see either route as being more future proof or future oriented than the other.



SLI drawbacks are not coming from SLI owners here, but from <A HREF="http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NzEx" target="_new">reviews like [H] did</A> that pretty much convinced people not to pay the premium for an SLI setup. Your the first person I have seen posting here who is actually using SLI. Now that they have profiles for all the benchmarks and benchmarked games, maybe they will start pounding out some more SLI profiles for other games. When it works, I'll admit, it's incredibly powerful, as you must see in D3 and Farcry. I just hate the idea of paying so much extra for PCI-e versions to this point.


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February 11, 2005 10:44:32 PM

KINNEY WOOT!!!!

Xeon

<font color=red>Post created with being a dickhead in mind.</font color=red>
<font color=white>For all emotional and slanderous statements contact THG for all law suits.</font color=white><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Xeon on 02/11/05 07:44 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
a b U Graphics card
February 11, 2005 10:56:51 PM

Yeah SLI for performance not my thing, but dual 16x (even running at 4x) perfect.

I don't need headphones right now (I have about 10 pair right now including an old pair of Sennheiser 445s, I even had a pair of 490s [not similar to the ones you linked to strangely enough] for a brief period until they got crushed in a move. I had been looking at the new 500s which look exactly like my old 490s, but they're too expensive. I have 3 pairs of wireless (Sony and RCA IR, Jensen RF [thinking about getting the Sein RS30s (Under $100CDN) to replace the dying RCA], I have a pair of AKGs, a pair of Koss, 2 pair of Labtecs, a pair of Bose Quiet Comfort noise-cancelling for when I fly, and a pair of noise cancelling Creative cans came with my USB-SoundBlaster, and a few pairs of jensen throw-aways for ride to/from work using my phone (to play OggVorbis and MP3).

I'm not sure if the offer would even work in Canada though? Maybe, there was mention about other offers and they had Amazon.ca so who knows?

My next purchase is a pair of SHURE buds (or equivalent) depending on price. I hate the flat earbuds they never meet expectations. The true in-ear (as in, in the ear duct so far they're poping out your eustachian tube touching your tongue!) buds offer just incredible sound and really they are PERFECT for skiing. I used my sister's from her iPod when I was out east for Xmas (dad bought them for her iPod which was here gift the year before). F'in right they're GREAT! I was sold after just a few moments with them, even MP3s sound much richer.

But anywhoo, thanks for the heads up, but really I don't need anymore right now other than the in ear and wireless (too bad few IR makers left, and I don't want to spend more money ($400CDN) for another Sony, who's pseudo 5.1 is crap!). I find IR sounds better to me due to all the RF interference out there (I use 802.11A networking (5.8ghz) and 2.4ghz phones and evne then there's interference everywhere.) Oh well!

Quote:
what else would that money be going to if i didnt spend it there? food? clothes? PFFT!). seriously, i can have some dumb clothes or killer PC parts. easy decision for me.


And that's my problem, I have $2,000 CDN set aside for this next buildbut every moment that passes me by I have other options confronting me (well no Hockey tickets this year! :mad:  ), I just plopped down ~$800CDN for a 4th pair of skiis and a second pair of boots! Really I prefer gaming at 1280x1024 on my 19" anyways (don't like tiny text etc. even though higher resoltions are easily supoprted), so until the rig arrives that allows me to switch to that LCD (should I still be so inclined), I'm goona blow the money on Ski, Beer and Women. Heck just spent alot of coin on a new leather couch just to entertain :evil:  .
To me it's about the value, if something comes up I want I'll drop the money for it, but the Scottish side comes out in me and it better be a Damn good deal. I never pay MSRP (learn the phrase <i>'what was your last sale price on that item?'</i> very handy), so paying ABOVE Msrp!?! $crew that noise! It just ticks me off to see those prices. Also the nF4-SLI boards are just now hiting the market in the Gigabyte form I'd been waiting for (Eden got a Gigabyte nF4 Ultra board), so there really hasn't been much rush until this month, and maybe the End of January. I'm still looking at this next purchase as a hop-skip before jumping to whatever the next gen - 24+ pipe - SMx.X - 90nm - card would be. But even then I'm going to get the good deal card being the GT or plain XT/PRO model. I'd probably have gone with a GF6800GT-AGP in the fall with D3 and HL2 if it weren't for the promise of PCIe always being there like a freaking carrot saying, <i>'just wait for me, I'm almost here'</i>!

I'm interested in the PureVideo Hardware acceleration stuff only because I'm trying to move away from 2 rigs and consolidate the gaming and editing rig into 1, and then moving the old gaming rig into the living room to become a media centre, and selling the editing rig. So for me I'd like to see the benifit if it's available, and really once they start truely getting the NV45s (instead of the bridged NV40s) to market it'll be fixed anyways. Supposedly those 45s should appear by the end of the month or early March.

Quote:
if you are into surround gaming, have you tried that stereovision thing?

Stereovision is two monitors though right (Assuming based on 'stereo' name)? Dual monitor gaming is terrible IMO, and from what I remember from playing with Q3 I didn't like it. The thing about surround gaming that I like is the idea that you still have one main focus monitor which is kick-ass, and then the other surround LCDs just add to it and give you information for when people try and sneak up on you, or seeing other firefights in UT2K4 etc.

Anywhoo, it might end up being a big let down, but the idea is very cool, and there's something just sweet even when using it in the MS FlightSim setups at CompuSmart.

Quote:
widescreen gaming is enough for me, nice FOV. even that requires some serious horsepower as it draws much more onscreen at a given resolution

And to me it just seems to be the nice logical extension of that wide FOV. The Dell with two surround 17-19" LCDs, Oie! Perfect IMO! And I do plan on moving my monitors to one desktop anyways, and so I'll already have 3 CRTs there (1 19" Phillips [19x14] and 2 17" Phillips [16x12]), why not use them for gaming too? I an interested in replacing the 19" with the Dell though. I prefer to keep the 17" CRTs for the time being, but the layout will definitely be a little lop-sided.

The main problem is that with the loss of Matrox gaming (some might say 'no loss') the support for this feature will die unless ATI and nV get behind it. The last titles to incorporate it were UT2K4 and Painkiller. Without HL2, FartCry and D3, the future may be somewhat limited. The decision maker for me will be whether or not Oblivion (Morrowind's replacement in the ElderSrolls lineage) has support since Morrowind and it's expansion packs have support now.

Personally it's my holy grail since 1600x1200x4XAA+16XAF seems nice, but usually even one single top end card can handle near that or that in older games, so I'd prefer an X800XL beside and X700-passive/or GF6600-passive (if they'd play well together) with no AA and a little AF with those nice surround monitors really making it immersive. I still just wonder how much (or even whether) the CPU load would change for having to include all that extra information (complete with fighting foes and scrolling terrains), but hopefully the 3500+ is good enough for current games and the dual core replacement would be good enough for the next gen games (either Stalker if it ever see sthe light of day or UE3 based games).

Anywhoo, in any case far too little time on my hands right now, and all these stoopid delays and issues simply make me less interested and more focused on skiing. Seriously my last gaming was a few days ago with a freind playing the Orginal Halo co-operative and Crimson Skies on the Xbox I got free from work. The only time I have for gaming right now seems to be when someone else is over to do it, and then the computer sucks compared to big creen TV and couch!

Really just a bad situation for upgrading IMO. I'd almost be content with Intel Extreme at this point. Well, maybe it's not THAT bad! :wink:

Anywhoo, that was one Way to damn long post. Gotta clean up before leaving work and going gear shopping again (gotta get a new BackPack for skiing too).


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
February 11, 2005 11:27:14 PM

KINNEY! YOU'RE BACK!


*throws feces at everyone else*

LET'S RIOT!

</font color=red><i><font color=red>GOD</font color=red> <font color=blue>BLESS </font color=blue><font color=red>AMERICA
February 11, 2005 11:36:01 PM

I bought the 2005fpw the other day for $602 to my door. I've seen it a few dollars cheaper but I'm not going to fret over $20. Kinney must have bought his over the holidays when there were some $40-$70 off coupons that stacked nicely.

</font color=red><i><font color=red>GOD</font color=red> <font color=blue>BLESS </font color=blue><font color=red>AMERICA
February 12, 2005 12:16:23 AM

what was the for? *wipes face*

KINNEY U ass! u didn't wait for me to make ur scene damnit!

:D 


RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
120% nVidia Fanboy+119% Money Fanboy
GeForce 6800 Ultra--> The Way we thought FX 5800Ultra is meant to be played
THGC's resident Asian and nVboy :D 
February 12, 2005 12:19:48 AM

Quote:
Anywhoo, pick a better nickname and stick around a while, but drop the BS Fanboism, CoolS is good enough for that role and far more entertaining.


*Dr.Zoidberg* FINALLY! RECOGNITION!

:D 

stfu Grape, mine isn't BS fanboyism, it is TRUE fanboyism :D 

RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
120% nVidia Fanboy+119% Money Fanboy
GeForce 6800 Ultra--> The Way we thought FX 5800Ultra is meant to be played
THGC's resident Asian and nVboy :D 
February 12, 2005 12:58:38 AM

rofl..

man i do kinda miss this place..

i wish i was educated in the arts of "true" fanboyism..
guess i need to step my game up.

hey i know there are a lot of foreigners here at THGC, i dont know if any of you are into soccer/football, but my new brother in law is on a soccer TV show on FSC (fox soccer .com), that i think is just in the USA.. but his radio show is worldwide, its called World Soccer Weekly. his name is nick geber. hes a liverpool fan. he from england but lives in LA obviously.
i know nothing about the sport, im just saying.. seems to be alot of you from britain here.



i'd like the peoples' thoughts who dont like SLI on this, this has always bugged me:
how can you be critical of SLI for being too loud, too noisy, require more power? doesnt that essentially mean you are going to be left out on all parallel processing? basically the future of PCs as far as we can tell?
i mean, what will u all do about dual core? thats added heat, extra points of failure, and extra power needed.

i just think its such a reciprocal arguement to me. i would say its either 1. misguided or 2. driven by fanboyism to deny Nvidia any leg up they have.

i have yet to hear across all the forums any decent response to this point, and i know the only peeps intelligent enough to possibly convince me on this would reside here, at our lovely ancient THGC.
a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2005 2:18:53 AM

My biggest beef with SLI is the price premium not heat, noise, power consumption. If PCI-e GF6800 series cards cost the same as AGP, say $350 for each 6800GT, then it's not so bad. Two weeks ago it was over $500 for each 6800GT PCI-e. The performance nut in me finds the gains in some benchies to be alot of fun reading, but is it really worth the extra money considering how well a single card performs in gaming? For some folks probably yes, for bargain hunters like me, definately no. The extra money could say, I don't know, maybe feed the kids. :smile:


Again as mentioned above, SLI sounds great for a future boost in performance, but prices on PCI-e 6800 series cards have to continue to come down or buying a single card now and upgrading later to R520 or NV5? later seems to be a better option IMO.

To make SLI cost worth it, you have to own a monitor like yours and hope to play D3 and farcry at max resolution/details/eye candy, either that or just be into 3dmarks and bragging rights. What else does it offer?

But thinking that like myself with the 6800U, and others who just went with a $350 GF6800GT and AGP mobo, have $700+ more in their pockets and very similar performance in all but a few benchies and games, really makes me question just what the extra $700 really is able to add to the gaming experience. But as prices continue to go down (6800GT PCI-e have come down $100 already in the past week or two), I'm alot less critical.

What it still comes down to for me is what do you get for the extra money. What does 2 6800GT's in SLI offer over a single X850XTpe for almost $350 more. Or what does 2 6800U's offer over a single X850XTpe for over $500 more. In in my case with AGP 6800U it's $700+ more? IMO, it's very little in todays games except bragging rights in sythetic benchies.

For those lucky enough to have money as no object, then the only decision would be X8500XTpe or 2-6800Ultras in SLI. The single X850XTpe will win in most games, but when SLI works the 6800U's will win. Both setups need more than a 19" CRT to get any benefit though.




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a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2005 2:20:13 AM

Actually you do have a problem, you're wrong-headed about the whole thing. You see, the entire FX series was junk, by modern standards. And the 6800/6600 series is great. So most of those people you thought were ATI fanboys last year are actually buying nVidia cards this year.

Did they change face? No. The fact is they supported the best performance the entire time. They weren't picking sides based on brand loyalty, their loyalty is to performance.

What this all means is that you're the one with the problem, not them. You're the one who sees a conspiracy, all they want is better performance.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
February 12, 2005 2:34:46 AM

while that sounds great, the reality is: how many people here have a geforce6? exactly.

i'd bet you that most have an excuse.. very convienent as the forum fave ATI has really fast 9700 Pros for sale still.. and the GF6 is the best product out.
seriously, besides paul, who didnt even WANT to buy an NV card.. there arent many, if any forum regulars (ESP the ones i have accused ATI fanboyism of in the past) that use GF6 cards.

its not a conspiracy, its VERY clear if you go to nearly any other forum that the NV lineup gets, and always has gotten much more props than it does here.
in the FX heyday, this place beat on the FX cards for everything.. and you dont see that kind of ferocity when ATI cheats (which they do).

its a simple, and obvious analysis, not a conspiracy theory.
February 12, 2005 2:36:44 AM

SLI is not cost effective.

</font color=red><i><font color=red>GOD</font color=red> <font color=blue>BLESS </font color=blue><font color=red>AMERICA
February 12, 2005 2:39:42 AM

The 5xxx FX series really wasn't that great.

</font color=red><i><font color=red>GOD</font color=red> <font color=blue>BLESS </font color=blue><font color=red>AMERICA
February 12, 2005 2:45:21 AM

that will all be over soon.. i got both of my GTs for $375 a piece.

cheap enough i didnt mind picking up SLI. i think you are downplaying it a little bit.. when a game supports SLI it is the absolute fastest setup one can have. You cant take that away from it. Its blazing fast..

and the thing everyone forgets is that these are essentially beta drivers.. not even near being optimized.. i cant wait to see how well it will perform when the NV40 gets optimized like all NV hardware does, then how much more efficient they will get SLI itself running.. its pretty promising. while offering the fastest performance today.. not bad!

certainly worth the extra $375 over already buying one card anyway to a guy like me.

i'd had the exact same system with or without that extra $375 card, so it just wasnt that much money to me.
February 12, 2005 2:46:08 AM

For all the hype on those cards. Bomb for nV. They got it right with the 6xxx series. What the 5xxx was supposed to be.
February 12, 2005 2:49:31 AM

Quote:
SLI is not cost effective.


No its not.
But either is buying a high end PC for games. An Xbox is cost effective.

A bicycle is also much more cost effective for alot of people as well, and people still buy cars. Sometimes even 4x4s and sports cars. :evil: 


I see this as the same heat/power/point of failure argument, its reciprocal..

it just matters where people want to draw that magic line in the sand.

lo and behold!! its right on NV's SLI... riiiighhhhttttt.
a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2005 3:03:04 AM

You haven't changed in your absence have you. :wink: Anyway, loads of folks here have gone with 6800GT's. It's been pretty much recommended by almost everyone here as the best high end buy since it came out. You need to rinse the sour taste of the FX days out of your mouth and enjoy that most folks here praise the 6600 & 6800 series.


Personally, I wanted a X800XTpe because I see it as the best AGP card. I didn't buy it because of price& availability. I simply will not buy for over list price, and prefer $50-$100 under list. Like Crash said about folks here, I went with price/performance, reguardless of brand. I just had to start a post in disbelief I was a 6800U owner(thought by me to be a waste of money compared to the GT). I wanted a HIS X800XTpe Ice Q II, but expected to become a 6800GT owner in the future. I just wanted it for $300, and that hadn't happened yet.

Anyway, while if priced the same I'd take the XTpe, it took less than 30 seconds to make up my mind and buy that 6800U when I saw it. I was thrilled to say the least. Didn't even attempt to seek spousal permission (married folks will understand). And basically all 30 seconds were in making sure it was a real Ultra before clicking submit order. Do I think it's the best AGP card available...no, because very often it seems a single X800XTpe can be bumped up in settings like in [H]'s reviews. But it's close enough to the best and is definately the best for the price I have seen. It was a no brainer as it was more card than I thought I'd get to own for only a bit more than I intended to pay. I was shocked at the deal and the card I bought, yet totally thrilled at the same time have finally found a good 9800 pro replacement.


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February 12, 2005 3:35:00 AM

Cost effective, meaning you get a certain amount of value for your dollar.

Take cars for example. I could buy a bicyle for $500 (Hell, make it a Walmart special of $30) and bike to work each day. It would take me approximately 7 hours and I would risk mugging and death each time since I live in L.A. and work in a really bad part of Compton. The roach truck (food truck) was just robbed and the guy got shot in the hand, my security guard killed a guy, the dogs scare me even though I'm not a stranger, and the tennis shoes hanging over all the powerlines mean there are drug deals happening down the street. Alternatively I could spend $15K on a car, get to work in 30 min, be safe, listen to my XM radio, be stress free, and not be a complete wanker biking to work. That's a pretty big difference. Is the $14.5K worth it? Everyone would say yes. I get a lot of value for my dollar.

Xbox sucks compared to a PC. It serves a completely different purpose. Playing games on an xbox is best with beer and buddies and at that point you're too drunk to notice that the graphics suck compared to your PC and that FPS's are lame with a game controller.

SLI is cool, but you spend a massive premium for added performance that is limited to which games you play and even then will you notice the difference between 100fps and 120fps? By the time the SLI is keeping you from dropping below 60fps where you would notice the difference you could have just upgraded your videocard to something 2x as fast as your SLI setup

Just my opinion.

</font color=red><i><font color=red>GOD</font color=red> <font color=blue>BLESS </font color=blue><font color=red>AMERICA
a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2005 3:36:47 AM

Quote:
i got both of my GTs for $375 a piece

That is my kind of bargain. No arguement over that being a great deal. That's only $30 more than a AGP bargain, and is obviously not outperformed in PCI-e for that price. Nice deal!

Quote:
i think you are downplaying it a little bit.. when a game supports SLI it is the absolute fastest setup one can have. You cant take that away from it. Its blazing fast..

In D3 and farcry, it is the fastest. In Aquamark, 3dmark05, 3dmark03, it's the fastest. But don't forget just how few games support it. And when it isn't supported it's a waste of money for that particular game and easily outperformed by a single X850XT for less money.


Quote:
and the thing everyone forgets is that these are essentially beta drivers.. not even near being optimized.. i cant wait to see how well it will perform when the NV40 gets optimized like all NV hardware does, then how much more efficient they will get SLI itself running.. its pretty promising. while offering the fastest performance today.. not bad!


That's part of my point. People payed $200 for the mobo and $500-550 for 2 6800GT's from the start, and it is in beta drivers still. They simply got little to nothing but bragging rights for that extra money. And they get smoked by a single ATI in many games. Because until the drivers catch up it IS NOT the fastest performance today. Did you read that[H] <A HREF="http://" target="_new">review</A> or look at the supported game list at NVzone? They quite simply so far only created profiles for synthetic benchmarks and games used to benchmark. What was there, 7 games and 4 synthetics on the list that SLI actually provides a benefit in? Otherwise, you have to wait for a profile or attempt one yourself right? Take NFS underground 2. No profile so far and that game could benefit from one as nothing seems to be able to handle 1600x1200 with all the eye candy.

I see it as spending alot now for hope of performance later, with little real world performance gain now. So not worth the huge premium. Very different from what your view seems to be.

Again, for your prices, I have no issues what-so-ever with you purchasing the second card. Probably will take X800XL actually hitting it's $300 list price to force PCI-e 6800GT's lower than what you paid. In your situation, I probably would have bought a second for that price too just for the sheer fun of experimenting with SLI without the huge PCI-e premium.






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a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2005 3:39:49 AM

It's only clear to you! Look a little harder, you'll find that more people in this forum have "GeForce 6" cards than have X series cards. Now look back in the 2001 and 2002 archives and see how many people bought nVidia back then. Favoritism towards ATI only occured in the majority so long as ATI had a clear performance lead.

People beat up on the FX series because it was a clearly inferior product line. The whole thing. Look at some games and you'll see that under certain settings, the 9600 Pro leads the 5800 series. The 5700 series is often slower than the extremely old Ti4200. And the 5200 series was crap even by standards set by nVidia themselves 3 years ago. And the worst part, nVidia advertizing their market lead in "DX9" cards, mostly due to hot sales of the 5200 which was so weak, it choaked when you enabled DX9 features.

I saw quite a few people ragging on ATI for renaming the 8500LE as the 9100 when it wasn't even DX9 compatable as the name implied. People still bought them when they were cheap, but only because they were cheap.

<font color=blue>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!</font color=blue>
<font color=red>Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!</font color=red>
February 12, 2005 4:19:05 AM

Think about your blood pressure crash...

</font color=red><i><font color=red>GOD</font color=red> <font color=blue>BLESS </font color=blue><font color=red>AMERICA
a b U Graphics card
February 12, 2005 6:45:22 AM

I won't get back to the old "the FX isn't as bad as it is, hey it's even DX9+" debate as I need sleep and detox before skiing, it's tired and not relevant to this generation. Simply put even nV admits the series was sub par and they wish to put it behind them.

I will comment on this one thing though;

Quote:
how can you be critical of SLI for being too loud, too noisy, require more power? doesnt that essentially mean you are going to be left out on all parallel processing? basically the future of PCs as far as we can tell?
i mean, what will u all do about dual core? thats added heat, extra points of failure, and extra power needed.

Simply put you're misguided in your views of dual cores, etc versus dual cards.

The GF6800 series is 130nm without low-Kd, this causes very much inefficiency (heat and power lost to heat). The next replacement core is 90nm AND has low-Kd insulation. Now this pays off in many ways, first the die is smaller, therefore you could fit more pipelines in the same area, from what I've read 24 x 32FP pipelines on the R520 would still take up less area than the current 16x24 on the R420/480, add to that the increased frequency headroom, and the lower power consumption, I don't see any compeling reason to buy SLI for THIS GENERATION of cards, nor personally ever, other than Bungholios. I would think that with the way dual core CPUs are going, multi-core VPUs would head in that direction too. Almost 2 years ago I read about ATI's stated plans to put 4 VPUs on one die (at the time I was one again applying it to surround gaming, 2 cores main one core each surround). Itt's car more efficient to do the parallelism on chip than to try and get it to work over the comparitively slow PCIe/SLI/ALS/AMR configuration, heck even across the PCB would be potentially fater.

Just look at the power characteristics of a 3500+ Winchester veruss even an XP2500+, perfect example of efficiency. THAT's the kind of innovation I'm looking for and talking about increased performance while decreasing power consumption.

There are benifits to SLI, but so far they are very limited, and as has been said it comes at a price, and doesn't guarantee a performance boost everywhere.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
February 12, 2005 5:20:49 PM

Quote:
Itt's car more efficient to do the parallelism on chip than to try and get it to work over the comparitively slow PCIe/SLI/ALS/AMR configuration, heck even across the PCB would be potentially fater.


as far as efficient data transfer over the PCIe config.. that little bridge chip offers 10GB/sec bandwidth. Not too bad.

About the dual core/dual cards, I was making a point. It seems silly we can manage to outrule NV's SLI, but not dual core, dual processors ect.
You would not deny the usefulness of dual processors for people that can use it would you?

Thats what SLI is, a semi-expensive toy that works for people that have it. It works in every game I play.

And the newest betas, btw, support over 80 games.. and it takes 30 seconds to make a profile for ANY game. I've done this and its worked on every game I've tried it on.


Let me put it this way: this new rig runs cooler overall than my Athlon XP rig. Maybe its the dual 120mm case fans, maybe its the cool n quiet.
The only time I suspect it gets warm in there is when I'm putting load on it in games. And then its just doing its job, delivering kick ass performance.


my words are being taken slightly out of context here though, when i say "its beta drivers essentially and great", that not "first adopter blues", thats "first adopter is pleasantly surprised they actually pulled it off this well".

essentially, that i believe any of you would be pleased to use SLI in your own rigs. I like it, and its power so much, that if i sent you my system.. i would bet that besides those of you who are poor.. you'd keep it.
i'd go as far to say, other than those who are tight on cash.. they'd keep it unless they were ATI fanboys.
I mean, $375 to get nearly double performance, and someone would sell the 2nd card? That person would be a retard.

of course, its much easier for me to evaluate SLI due to the fact I'm not relying soley on outdated information from any given (possibly biased) review site.

We can talk back and forth all day, but it is disingenous to support dual core processor, dual cpu rigs, and then, somehow say that NV SLI is some horrible idea.
I'm not goign to argue about it, as I'm enjoying SLI every day, and its the fastest thing a guy can get.. and my case isnt ready to explode, contrary to what people would choose to believe.
February 12, 2005 9:38:18 PM

...*wanders in, looking for trouble*...

:eek:  I don't only break your heart, I also break your pelvis :eek: 
!