make video cards like MB`s UPGRADEABLE

arnold873

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a video card should be like a MB
with removable/upgradable memory
and GPU
that way when you need to upgrade the gpu it will be a lot cheaper
and you can get the fastest and most amout of memory over time
i`m sick of throwing away my old cards that once cost me hundreds

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coolsquirtle

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poof what else is new?

i came up with that idea YEARS AGO!

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arnold873

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well we both had a good idea
i also thought of it years ago
i also had the idea for mp3 players
i wrote to diamond to tell them about it and poof they did it
my idea was that cd`s pissed me off with the skipping and i said why not put it on a solid state device like a memory chip that was when i had a amiga 4000 so you can see how far back that was i think my friends pc at the time was 33mhz

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cefoskey

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<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=418748#418748" target="_new">Been saying that for a while, man.</A>

Do a board search, youll find magical things....

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pnjunction

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They are upgradeable...you take it out and put in a new one.

The idea of putting fancy sockets on them and upgrading components (GPU, RAM) is ridiculous. There are plenty of reasons, one of which is the socket, why RAM on mobos is so much slower than video card RAM. Interoperability is also a big issue when you socket things, and in this case it would be a nightmare.

There are reasons why things get more and more integrated all the time. (ie. mem controller on A64s)
It's cheaper, faster and more reliable when you take away the sort of flexibility you guys are looking for.

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sweatlaserxp

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It would cost much more to manufacture the circuit boards if they were modular. Also, more electricity would be wasted rather than creating custom circuits for each particular GPU base. On top of that, the average gamer probably replaces their card every 2-2.5 years, a little bit less duration than a motherboard upgrade cycle, so it would be useless to the masses (who wouldn't even have the knowledge to upgrade the parts anyway).

For example, I have a Socket A motherboard and an Athlon XP 2500. Would I spend $300+ to upgrade to an Athlon 3200 and 1Gb of PC3200 memory? No, because for a little bit more money I could buy an new AMD64 setup.

It's neat in theory but in reality they would cost a lot more and nobody would take advantage of it.

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arnold873

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They are upgradeable...you take it out and put in a new one.

The idea of putting fancy sockets on them and upgrading components (GPU, RAM) is ridiculous. There are plenty of reasons, one of which is the socket, why RAM on mobos is so much slower than video card RAM. Interoperability is also a big issue when you socket things, and in this case it would be a nightmare.

There are reasons why things get more and more integrated all the time. (ie. mem controller on A64s)
It's cheaper, faster and more reliable when you take away the sort of flexibility you guys are looking for.

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true enough, good points , thanks

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sweatlaserxp

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I agree. Video cards might be impressive self-contained computing devices, but they still have a specific function and they are just one of many components.

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arnold873

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Re: make video cards like MB`s UPGRADEABLE [re: arnold873]

It would cost much more to manufacture the circuit boards if they were modular. Also, more electricity would be wasted rather than creating custom circuits for each particular GPU base. On top of that, the average gamer probably replaces their card every 2-2.5 years, a little bit less duration than a motherboard upgrade cycle, so it would be useless to the masses (who wouldn't even have the knowledge to upgrade the parts anyway).

For example, I have a Socket A motherboard and an Athlon XP 2500. Would I spend $300+ to upgrade to an Athlon 3200 and 1Gb of PC3200 memory? No, because for a little bit more money I could buy an new AMD64 setup.

It's neat in theory but in reality they would cost a lot more and nobody would take advantage of it.


true true i see your point

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cefoskey

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Money.

ATI and Nvidia would make less money if they offered modular cards.

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mafiaman

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<i>Money.

ATI and Nvidia would make less money if they offered modular cards.</i>

Go back and read some of the previous posts SLOWLY.

If you think you can put 1 GHz+ DDR3 RAM in a socket for a reasonable price, then you're an idiot.

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cefoskey

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I think you're the one who needs to read a bit more slowly, junior.

If you hadn't noticed OR read the link posted above, this whole issue has been discussed over 6 months ago with the consensus being that making modular cards is not profitable for manufacturers. Period.

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cleeve

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Video card technology progresses too fast for a truly modular solution, and making it compatible with different components would likely slow down the video subsystem.

The closest thing we'll get to modular video componentry is SLI (and equivalent technology), which exists already... hell, it existed in the voodoo days.


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cleeve

Illustrious
If you think you can put 1 GHz+ DDR3 RAM in a socket for a reasonable price, then you're an idiot.

What do you mean by this?

How, exactly, would Nvidia make any money off someone buying corsair RAM for their video subsystem?

Nvidia is not in the memory business...

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pnjunction

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Easy guys. I was merely pointing out that the reason it isn't done has nothing to do with whether they would make money, but because it's just not feasible at all.

Anyway, 'junior' here has work to do...but I'll be sure to make my points clearer next time for those who are prone to misinterpretation.

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cleeve

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Easy? I wasn't aware that I was freaking out.

Your poor communication skills do not indicate a proneness to misinterpretation on the part of others, junior.

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Slava

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Hehe :eek:)

Video card technology progresses too fast for a truly modular solution, and making it compatible with different components would likely slow down the video subsystem.
Bingo. There is really nothing else to say on the matter. Period.

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arnold873

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02/25/05 10:45 AM
Re: make video cards like MB`s UPGRADEABLE [re: arnold873]

Video card technology progresses too fast for a truly modular solution, and making it compatible with different components would likely slow down the video subsystem.

The closest thing we'll get to modular video componentry is SLI (and equivalent technology), which exists already... hell, it existed in the voodoo days.




very true also i`ve heard that the wiring gets degraded
by using sockets, so i guess thsi was a bad idea

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cefoskey

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Looks like people should be paying attention to the poster each person is replying to.

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pnjunction

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Junior? Is this a standard condescending term on these boards? How did you guys know that I'm only 2 years old?

What was unclear when I said that putting DDR3 can't be done for a reasonable price? (Thus only an idiot could think it possible.)


<i>What do you mean by this?</i>

What kind of question is that? I meant exactly what I said. Here's one I might be able to answer:

<i>How, exactly, would Nvidia make any money off someone buying corsair RAM for their video subsystem?</i>

They wouldn't. But we are talking about upgradability. Do mobo manufacturers make money when you buy RAM? No. Would they sell any mobos if they soldered RAM down and you couldn't upgrade it? Not these days, because we have better options. With graphics cards there are no other options. If someone came out with slots so you could actually upgrade video card RAM (I remember seeing them when things were much slower), it would be a pretty strong buying point and there would be plenty of money to be made.


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cleeve

Illustrious
Junior? Is this a standard condescending term on these boards? How did you guys know that I'm only 2 years old?
I don't know how old you are, nor do I care. But when a noob shows up acting like an ass, telling people to read SLOWLY, and implying that established members of a community are "idiots" if they do not share your way of thinking, I apply nomenclature deserving of their juvenile attitude.

Plus, cefoskey said it first, and I thought it was nifty.

What kind of question is that? I meant exactly what I said.
OK, since your communication problem persists, I will explain SLOWLY.

cefoskey said "ATI and Nvidia would make less money if they offered modular cards."

to which you replied "If you think you can put 1 GHz+ DDR3 RAM in a socket for a reasonable price, then you're an idiot."

To which I said "What do you mean by this?"

... implying that I am trying to understand how the price of 1gb of DDR3 ram invalidates cefoskey's statement that "ATI and Nvidia would make less money if they offered modular cards."

Now it appears that you accidentally answered this in your last post, explaining your train of thought, so you need not further strain to communicate an answer.

However, I do not necessarily agree with your point of view, as there are other factors; such as the cost of making a videocard upgradable in the first place, adding space and slots to the card; and the fact that Nvidia and Ati are both doing essentially the same operation in software with "turbocache" and "Hypermemory" on PCI-e platforms; Also, there is no way to cheaply upgrade, say, a DDR2 memory controller to DDR3; and every generation of GPU's are developed so quickly and are so architecturally different that a standard packaging would almost be impossible.

Interesting line of thought though. But I suspect the real reason is that GPU technology is a much faster moving target. Athlon and Pentium sockets last for years, they have the same amount of pipelines but increase cache and bus speeds... but GPU technology has doubled the number of pipelines in a single generation/year! It's just develops too fast to make a modular solution, unless you're talking SLI or Turbocache type upgrades, which are platform and software based, not really hardware-on-the-card specific.


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cefoskey

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Bravo Cleeve, well said.

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If you're not aware you're freaking out it's usually because it's some good stuff! But in this case it's someone else's grip on reality that's a little off.

Interesting how they blame everyone else for their inability to articulate their thoughts into something coherent to everyone else. Talk about Schto0opid!

Really this has been discussed ad-nauseum (longer than 6months ago as you know). There's just no real motivation for this from the board makers (sapphire, etc.) or the chipmakers (Ati, nV). I doubt that a socket solution could ever handle the kind of connection speeds we're talking about here, heck if we're talking about the benifits of BGA versus TSOP, imagine add-in versus surface mount?

I thought the Power5 type solution would work well but at least that's 8 CPUs on one chip with hug amounts of local cache. But even then connecting it to fast memory through a socket and not direct traces, I don't know if I would trust that for the ever increasing speeds (we're talking about ACTUAL 800mhz+ like we mentioned, not the effective 800mhz that is only now appearing in DDR2 on mobos.

Anywhoo, all this will be a moot point when it's quantum + optical computing. :cool:


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cleeve

Illustrious
Incidentally, video card RAM is always the vanguard of consumer-available RAM technology.
I question the ability of the Dramurai to produce 1000+ Mhz RAM in sufficient quantities to distribute through the supply chain.

I think it's safe to assume that video card RAM is more expensive to produce due to it's high speeds, and rarer, because what little is available is gobbled-up by the video card manufacturers. If this is the case, it would be difficult to populate the distribution channel with uber-highspeed RAM like that...

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pnjunction

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I will admit right now that I am a better electrical engineer than communicator. I always cause a mess of misunderstanding whenever I post anywhere. I'll just shutup and go back to working on high-speed ASICs.

<i>Anywhoo, all this will be a moot point when it's quantum + optical computing.</i>

Indeed. Hope it doesn't come too fast, I'd be out a job! (Never was into quantum/optics much.) Bucketloads of money are spent to make silicon technology a little bit better every year, so I hope they keep it up for a while.

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