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Graphics Card Replacement for Older PC

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
March 6, 2005 5:55:30 AM

OK, I know you folks have dealt with this question a few bazillion times, but here we go again, and thanks in advance for your help and/or patience.

I have a Compaq Deskpro EN PIII 733 Mhz machine (4x AGP/ 200 Watt PSU) and a 1Ghz chip waiting to be installed. My Geforce 2Ti is on the outs and dying fast from heat stroke (Fan has met it's match).

I want to upgrade to the best possible Graphics Card I can get to run in this poor thing, but have been running into a lot of System spec problems. It's been suggested to me elsewhere that finding a Geforce4 Ti 4600 would be about the best solution I can get (if I can find one anywhere, which has proven difficult thusfar).

What I'd like to know is if anyone has any alternate suggestions or thoughts on this? I have been looking at FX5200's as an alternative, but can't tell if they're an upgrade from the Ti, a side-grade (lol) or a downgrade. What attracts me to the 5200 is the DirectX9 support. Benchmarks I've seen for end of year 2003 seem to suggest the Ti is a better card, and of course, the Ti line in general was very well received/reviewed (but appears only to support up to DX8 as far as I've been able to find.

The big bottleneck I'm running into here seems to be a spec very few manufacturers seem to publish widely... Power Supply Minimum Requirements. A few of the 5200's I've looked at specify 250 Watt PSU minimums, though others haven't listed any PSU requirements at all. I haven;t seen any PSU requirements listed on ANY 4 Ti's.

I'm told by a Compaq enthusiast that the newer Radeons will just muck with my BIOS so that rules out the Radeon 9x00 series I guess.

My brain hurts and I am having trouble getting any kind of comprehensive data together. Can anyone help? Please? My fan sounds like a cat got stuck in a blender and it's driving me nuts.

Machine will be used primarily for 3D Rendering and Games ( I've a stack of 1-3 year old games I'm still trying to get to, so Doom 3 / HL2 is NOT an issue for a while yet! lol)

Any help any one can offer would be most appreciated.

"I'm sorry Dave... I can't do that."
a b U Graphics card
March 6, 2005 7:40:29 AM

FX5200 is a performance equal to the GF2ti, and really the FX is NOT a DX9 card in anything but but. In gaming any PS2.0 effects will be disabled.

A GF4ti eould definitely be better. I'd recommend an R9600/9550 is you're looking for newer features. I doubt it would do anything to your bios. But if it must be nV, then GF4ti or FX5600 at the very least (not SE/LE/XT).

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
March 6, 2005 3:22:26 PM

Depending on your budget, the Radeon 9550 9600 are both good choices, but the next step that should be considered in the 160 to 180 price point is the Radeon 9700 PRO. Has a 256-bit memory interface versus the 9550 and 9600's 128. You would not be disappointed with a 9700 PRO if you're willing to spend the cash.

In just two days, tomorrow will be yesterday.
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March 6, 2005 4:52:08 PM

Ah! ok... That solves the 5200 problem! Thanks for that. From benchmarks I've been seeing, it looked like the 4Ti was a more capable card than the 5200, but NVidia doesn't have anything useful on its' site about the GeForce 4 line for some reason. Jumps from Geforce 2/3 to FX and newer lines for reasons I can't fathom.

My problem with the Radeon Cards is mostly that they ALL seem to require minimum PSU of 250-300 Watts (Mine is 200 Watts), and as I am looking to upgrade this machine (i.e. - replace) sometime in the forseeable future, I don't want to go mucking about with new PSUs (unless I have to) in addition to a Video Card replacement for the current one.

Any thoughts or strategies I might employ as far as that goes? I'm also starting to worry about the 4Ti's now, as they all look like extra long cards, and my desktop's a standard Desktop, not a tower, so anything longer than a standard AGP card might not fit (my current 2Ti has about an inch of clearance behind it before it hits the CD Burner that's installed in a lefthand Drive bay). The alternative is to install the 4Ti and remove the standard CD drive, move the Burner over, and use it as my primary CD drive. Then, pf course, I have to deal with no direct CD to CD burns. Argh! This is driving me crazy.

Thanks GreatGrapeApe (great screenname! GA to SK?? Are you a TTY user?) and sh1ft3d for your replies, and any other thoughts anyone can offer.

"I'm sorry Dave... I can't do that."<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by MacDubhgal on 03/06/05 02:39 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
a b U Graphics card
March 7, 2005 1:20:50 AM

(great screenname! GA to SK?? Are you a TTY user?)

You sir, are the FIRST person to get what that means. I have explained it once or twice as an aside around here (never told them what the GA and SK was), but no one knew what it meant.

It's from my days as a relay/TTY operator, and a shout-out to a few friends in the community out east, and really a nice way to sign-off every post IMO. :cool:

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
March 7, 2005 1:40:48 AM

No kidding! Well, I've been chatting with Mom for years using various generations of TTY from the old teletype style all the way up to last year's screen readout styles. LOL... FINALLY got her to take the dive, and we mostly talk in chat now (Thanks to WebTV for the technophobes out there! lol) but TTY's were a way of life 'round here for many a year! Pleased to make your acquaintance, Sir! Nice to meet one of the folks who helped make it all possible! Changed things for the deaf forever.

And while I'm posting, any further thoughts on my post above? Still trying to figure out if I'm going to get in trouble putting in a bigger PSU or a card as detailed above.

Nice chatting with you!

"I'm sorry Dave... I can't do that."
a b U Graphics card
March 7, 2005 2:45:25 AM

Well, I've been chatting with Mom for years using various generations of TTY from the old teletype style all the way up to last year's screen readout styles.

When I moved on about 5 years ago, they were just introducing the new portable ones for payphones, very cool. Does you mom have one of the LED single line ones or the Multi-Line LCDs?

LOL... FINALLY got her to take the dive, and we mostly talk in chat now

Yeah it's funny just around '99-00 suddenly people would call and the basic message would be "Hey XXX, Go on MSN" and that was it.

Probably one of my most rewarding jobs in the phone company, also built up my typing/memory skills, I could usually buffer about 20-30words easily.

As for your question, I would say it probably depends on the quality of the PSU, And quality 200W PSU would handle all the options (The R9200/R9600 and basic FX5200 probably draw less power than the GF4ti), when they make the recommendations it's usually on Generic crappy PSUs, and then 300W would be a good choice and you can probably find a cheap one for $10US. Locally you can get them here for $9 CDN. You can even find Cases with one for about $20, and those are new/OEM not even second hand. Now the Compaq PSU is probably better than generic quality, but not by too much. The only problem with replacing it would be if there's a proprietary MoBo connector, which is the case with cose computers like GateWay, Compaq, HP & Dell.

However I'd say you'll likely be safe with a plain FX 5200, a plain R9600 (might be pushing it with a PRO, but even then I doubt it), and the GF4ti might be the very edge of the envelpoe (the dsiadvantage of the GF4ti over R9600 in this case is the MFR process and 130nm has some power efficiencies).

It's really hard to tell for sure without actually testing the cards in the rig, the best thing to do is to get a good return policy so you can try it and return it if it doesn't work.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
March 7, 2005 3:15:53 AM

Mom and I both have single line LED's though I got to play with an LCD version a while back. They're cool, but a wee bit pricey. And I know what you mean about buffering. Really good TTY Ops are really hard to come by, and a joy when you get 'em.

As to my ongoing saga, is there a bottleneck point at which my machine just won't benefit from the Technical capability of a newer card? I assume this must be the case. I'll definitely look for a good return policy. Generally I shop through Egghead or at local shows. Any recommendations as to places that extend shopping protection? I can list further System specs if it'd help "place" my best options in any way. On the upside, I have a buddy who says he has some stock Dell PSU's in the 300-350 Watt range that he can give me one of (now there's interesting sentence construction!) Going to give it a go armed with a pinout diagram I got from Compaq.

"I'm sorry Dave... I can't do that."
March 7, 2005 12:50:39 PM

Your processor will most definitely be the bottleneck if you get a Geforce4 Ti/Radeon 9550/9600/9700, unfortunately. Newer demanding titles (D3, HL2, Battle for Middle Earth, etc) are going to be slow on that rig no matter what you do.

BTW, the Radeon 9550/9600 will be pretty easy on your power supply. The 9700 would need more juice tho.

What the hell is a TTY?

<b>Radeon <font color=red>9700 PRO</b></font color=red> <i>(o/c 332/345)</i>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>3200+</b></font color=red> <i>(Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)</i>
<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>5,354</b>
a b U Graphics card
March 7, 2005 8:55:23 PM

The funny thing about TTY machines is now a cheap 386SX Monochrome LCD Latop or newer would likely be just as effective a machine once set-up. You don't have the benifit of the accoustic coupler, and you need to set the resets, etc. I think all modems have had the TTY capability since at least the Hayes 1200baud ones (never bothered to check the older one way back when). I think our ones with the Blue LEDs was $1,500 CDN IIRC, the new LCD ones are about $2,400, and the portable ones with the data jacks and such I think were about $4,000. So pricey it just astounds me considering the cost of a second hand laptop really, and I think the single line limitation of the single line LED really messes people up when they get someone not familiar with the idea of XXXX instead of backspacing which as I'm sure you know messes things up royally. Heck when I was an operator we WERE running our terminals on 486s (and Windows 3.1 I think)!

Anywhoo, as for the bottleneck issue, it's a combination, the CPU will definitely bottleneck you in most situations, but an R9600(even SE) or FX5200/5600 will be just as bottle necked as a GeForce4MX IMO, so why not get the most out of it and maybe be able to enable some extra features. If' you're stuck at 640x480, why not make it 640x480 with Anti-Aliasing and AF if there's no penalty?
I can't give you shopping advice as I'm in Canada, and my suggestion would be something more pedestrian like BestBuy(& FutureShop) who are almost as leniant with returns as WalMart.

I'd think the R9600 won't strain your PSU too much it's very efficient, and I doubt the FX5200 would put a didn't in your power concerns either.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
March 8, 2005 6:51:03 AM

You know, I always wondered if Modems were TTY capable! Made sense to me! It's just a fancied up 1400 Baud Modem itself with a display isn't it?? You're right of course... "If someone gives you a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your two cents in... someone's makin' a penny!" LOL... Guess the tty manufacturers have a pretty good racket going. Ahhh commerce. :\

Cleeve, a TTY is a typing data transfer device with a phone cradle on top. You set your handset on the cradle, which has a speaker for the earpiece and a mic for the mouthpiece, and type on the keyboard. If the person at the other end has a TTY, the keys, each of which is keyed to a different modem/fax-like sound (each individual to the key) it goes out over the phone line, and is reproduced on the other end as text in one of a variety of formats (single line LED readout that scrolls across or an LCD screen that holds a few lines of text). It's a device in use by deaf and hearing impaired folks all over the place. Makes it much easier for them to communicate by phone. Especially handy now that most Fire Departments and Police Stations (in the US anyway) are required to have them so that they can receive emergency calls from the deaf and hearing impaired, who are otherwise crippled in their capacity to effectively communicate via phone). People like GreatGrapeApe work in "Relay Centers" all over the US (I think every state has at least one such center now) where folks without a TTY can call for a three way hookup. I call the Call center, they call the tty user I'm trying to talk to, and type what I say. Then they either read back to me the tty user's response, or allow a direct "Voice-Through" connection, where the deaf person can read my response as typed by the Operator and then respond to me directly by speaking into their phone. Pretty cool actually. Deafness is so much more of a handicap than most people realize, and there are some amazing technologies out there for the deaf user if they care to use them.

GreatGrapeApe... I like you. We think alike. LOL... Having run down opinions all over the place about 9600 power consumption, etc., it is obvious that my machine will bottleneck it somewhat, but that it supports a variety of features that could come in handy, and will be a decent starter card for my next system when I can finally afford one. I'm looking at the Sapphire XT Ultimate. Passive cooling, good reviews, and pretty decent benchmarks, considering what my machine will be able to do with it. LOL. Any thoughts on it?

Oh! I've also heard tell of software that'll monitor my case or cpu temperature and such like. Sounds like something I should track down if I'm going to start messing around on the upper end with all this stuff. Anyone know any good programs of this type?

"I'm sorry Dave... I can't do that."
a b U Graphics card
March 8, 2005 6:51:07 PM

I'd say the R9600XT UE is a little overkill but will be nice in a future system, the main thing is to get good pricing, because you don't want to spend more than a GF6600 or R9800XT for it.

The sapphire is very sweet, but remember you can also get an R9800 and R9800PRO Ultimate editions, so if the R9600XT is more expensive then get those instead, with your eye on future upgrades. For now though, even the R9600 would be overkill and the R9600XT even more so, but if you can find one for a good price then it's a wise and solid choice. Too bad I haven't seen any GF6600s in Passive format or that might be a great choice with an eye on the future.

Anyways, I'm sure you'll be fine with the choices, just don't expect great things from the better cards until you get a better system, which I'm sure your realize.

As for TTY modem, there are 4 standard modes <b>45</b>baud (man you can really notice the lag), 300 baud, and then two 'Turbo' modes 1200 and 2400. With 1200-2400 you get no lag so it was great when you got turbo equipped machines because then the standard greeting, which was automatically produce once connected, would blaze to them and you could start right away, otherwise you had to wait for the "Welcome to ... relay service ... my name is... " which was about 20-25 characters and you could hear he modem churn it out at 45 like it was morse code! Turbo customers also seem to be the ones who used alot of smilies and 'LOL's etc. probably because they were likely younger and they also knew they didn't have lag issues. Also with them you could easily add the extras like *people talking in background*, *doorbell*, *sound of dishes being washed*, *tells dog to hush*, etc, like we prefered to do if we could, but with slow TTYs you'd get bogged down if you did that. But in any case, people don't need TTY machines, they're really just more handy for when it was difficult to get jacks instead of direct wiring, and really now anyone could simply split a regular jack and hook up a cheap laptop for far less IMO, and have far more abilities (go straight from TTY to MSN in an instant without switching machines). But not everyone regardless of deaf or not is computer savy enough to make it work easily. The advanatage of a dedicated unit, turn it on, put the receiver/handset to the accoustic couplers and away you go.

BTW, as you may or may not know TTY isn't just for the hard of hearing it's also for the mute who can hear in that case it's very easy, it's called HCO Hearing-Carry-Over, VCO Voice-Carry-Over (like you call Voice-through). I once did a call for over 6 hours doing tech support with Dell (back when they were still in the US [or else the guy had developed a great southern accent). The most frustrating part was knowing more than the Dell dude, yet I can't interject my own toughts/ideas. It probably would've been a 10 minute call or less had I pretended to be Dell support myself. :evil: 

As for good monitoring software, I used to use <A HREF="" target="_new">MotherBoard Monitor</A>. Gigabyte ships it's own monitoring/tweaking software so I haven't used it in a while, there may be far better out there now. For temperature not monitored by your Motherboard you will have to buy seperate sensors, and really for the R9600 series you should be fine. Also I think all R9600XTs come with the ability to monitor the core temperature at least, using Rivatuner.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
March 8, 2005 8:11:49 PM

Never having encountered it, I had never considered the use of TTYs by Mute users. Makes sense though! And yeah, I know what you mean about dedicated use. Sometimes it's just easier to have a separate box. At least with the TTYs you don't have to worry about the OS screwing up. LOL... 'Least not that I've ever seen.

I'll look into the 9800 pricing as well, but I was under the impression that that would have higher power requirements, and with my little 200 Watter, that might be an issue? Thanks so much for all the input. It's really helping me out! I DO realize that there will be things the card can do that my sytem can't reproduce, but all other things being equal, it seems to me that a little more juice than necessary is better than less... unless there turn out to be BIOS compatabitlity issues or something, which one of the guys over at Compaq/HP was concerned but unsure about. Guess I'll just have to order one and see what happens. <shrugs>

The support call sounds like a real marathon!!! Man you must have some typing skills! Me, I'm lucky if I can turn out a properly spelt forum post. LOL.. I know the spelling, just have no skills at all. Hunt n Peck madness at 40 WPM... that's me. lol

"I'm sorry Dave... I can't do that."
a b U Graphics card
March 8, 2005 9:58:53 PM

Damn forgot about the power requirements again! Jeez, trying to keep two topics ongoing. Doie! Yes, you're right the R9800 would require significantly more power. I really should re-read threads when I reply for the 5-6th time. :eek: 

The OTHER thing to consider when really going over this again is the VOLTAGE issues. It might not be so much the BIOS as this old rig of your may have only a 3.3V AGP2x or worse. The R9600 have to be 1.5/0.8V. Dang I almost missed that (where's Crashman when you need a sobre second thought?). You may still be best off with the FX5200 for that very reason. Double check to make sure, I'll try to check during my next break. Unfortunately the R9600 might not owrk for that reason, even though it's a great choice. You may be stuck with an FX5600 or FX5200 or GF4ti simply for that reason. Man my heads been in PCIe mode too long, almost forgot about that.

As for OS crashing TTY, LOL, damn ain't that the truth! Never heard of a TTY box getting a virus or BSOD. :lol:  Considering all the calls we got over them to M$ tech support because of that, you're probably right. But at $1000+ eahc I might be willing to suffer a linux distro, or even DOS on a P4-laptop. :cool: Ohh the waste power. Actually if given the choice I'd try to run VMS or Linux on it I guess.

The funny thing aout the typing is our keyboard were specially designed ergonomic ones, but their delete keys and hift keys were in completely different spots, and this would cause issues when you typed at home, I'd find myself hiting the CTRL key over and over at home wondering why it's not deleting! You definitely develop your typing skills, there's one lady who'd been doing it for a long time (probably since it's introduced, she'd been an operator for about 30years), and she was typing fastr than anyone I'd ever seen, like we're talking over 120wpm easy, her keyboard sounded like it was being pummeled by hail, just incredible, and she said she'd never been tested. In order to get the job you had to pass a test 45+ WPM with 97% accuracy. They don't tell you your results the buggers,, but I almost pooched the test anyways. They give you 3 practice dictations, read by a lady, which are 5 mins long, and it's the same thing over and over, as an example (but not the real text), "The Quick Brown Fox Jumps Over The Lazy Dog....." you repeat it 3 times, same thing, then the test one comes on your brain is ready for the quick brown fox, and suddenly it's a dude reading the latest new headline, D'oh! My brain froze for a full 5 seconds, I had to pause the recording, catch my breath and then start (time keep running the whole while), man I thought I'd pooched it for sure. Funny out of 30 people who tested I was one of only tow who made it (they had to relax the limits to get 3 more people to fill the spots).

Anywhoo it was a fun time, glad to be on to something else, because being an operator only has rare rewards like that, the others are Jerkwads you want to tell to sober up, get a life, or plain F'off! If we could've done just Relay I'd probably still do it on weekends or something to help out, but the rest is just ot worth it, even for a good salary for a student.

Anywhoo, I'll check into the voltages and see what's what. Unfortunately considering the age, you may in fact need a different card, dang it!

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
March 9, 2005 7:08:32 PM

Y'know... This just came up over at the Compaq forum too. LOL... You guys must be on the same wavelength. For reasons I can't remember, I am under the impression this is an AGP 4x board, but I can't remember where I got that bit of data. I have Win2K Pro installed, as well as Norton System Works (Utilities et al). Are you aware of any way I can physically inspect the board or use a utility to find out what the heck I have???

My girlfriend wants to know, if you're willing to share, what kind of salary TTY operators make. We're both looking for work, and she's a speed demon on the keyboard. LOL.

If it DOES come down to that, any opinions on 9200 vs. 5200? Prefer passive cooling if I can get it. Those little fans have me all worried now. lol.

"I'm sorry Dave... I can't do that."
March 9, 2005 8:01:16 PM

Ah! ok... Don't remember where I got the original spec, but on advice received elsewhere. I downloaded Everest Home Edition and checked Motherboard/Chipset. It says the AGP stats are as follows:

AGP Version: 2.0
AGP Status: Enabled
AGP Device: nVIDIA RIVA TNT2 (installed from my stock of lying around cards)
Supported AGP Speeds: 1x, 2x, 4x
Current AGP Speed: 4x
Fast Write: Not Supported
Side Band Addressing: Supported, Enabled

so if it's AGP 2.0, according to info dug up at Anandtech's Suppoort Forums guide to AGP that means it's full 4x 1.5 volt, right? So I should be able to stick the 9600 in there without worries? I think? Or am I misreading something? Or is there another spec I should look up? Thanks again!

"I'm sorry Dave... I can't do that."
a b U Graphics card
March 9, 2005 9:10:27 PM

With those specs you should be fine with an R9600, which is good (and surprising to me).

If need be, I'd say the FX5200 offers only slightly more features and benifit. They are both solid, and unforunately both are about equal. DX9 on the FX5200 is basically a slide-show only, oooohh look that's interesting feature, and not useable/playable. The main thing with both is to try and avid SE models if possible. Of course if you're going with the R9600 then PS2.0 functions will actually be useable. slthough they may not be stellar performers they shouldn't offer much in the way of performance hits for enabling it.

As for relay operator slaries, not sure how it translates, but starting was about $35K CDN for a full retail operator (multi-features), so for a job that allows you student time (like 2-3 hours of uninterupted study at night) not bad, especially after the bonuses for bilingualism and shift work which made it more respectable wages, also nice to get free phone services. However I wouldn't want to rely on that as a real job, which is why it's a good stepping stone into the rest of the company.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
March 9, 2005 9:38:15 PM

Yeah.. The Sapphire 9600 XT Ultimate is looking pretty sweet. Now that I know I should be able to run it, I gotta go order me one. Compaq surprised the daylights outta me by delivering a proprietary case fan I ordered last night online to me... this morning!! In the words of ty pennington... "How'd they do that?" lol. Now that I have the case cooling taken care of, I need something to cool!!!

Thanks all for your amazing input and help. I WILL get back here and post success or failure reports. ;) 

35$ CDN an hour?? Yeah I can see how you'd want to move on from that eventually. As you say... a good foot in the door. Must have been interesting trying to keep a straight face through some of theose conversations. Were you obligated to translate exactly? Any prohibitions against foul language or the like?

"I'm sorry Dave... I can't do that."
a b U Graphics card
March 9, 2005 10:47:35 PM

Well it's cool that you got the new PSU, and that theXT-UE may work out (it'll last longer than those other options).

As for TTY, Not $35 an hour (that would've been a bit nicer) $35,000/year then plus bonus + benifits + differential, etc.

But still moving on is a good thing, no future there, and everyone seems bitter IMO.

Were you obligated to translate exactly?

Yes, basically we were what's called verbatim relay operators, some relay operators for some companies (especially ones without training) we're allowed to convey the gist of the message, which I think is ridiculous, and may be the only way for slow typers to do it or something, but we did our best to relay everything, like I said even the background sounds, etc.

The conversations could be very interesting, can't get into specific details because of privay concerns, but let's just say all kinds of relationships you can think of involved, and you had the right to ask for someone to relieve you on a call if you didn't like the subject matter (abortion, religion, etc.) but I always felt it's not my place, and I'm supposed to ignore the content as best I can. During training I said the only calls I might have trouble with is two gay guys, but when the time came (and eventually every manner of person/religion/subject does) it didn't phase me nor did any others, there's a job to do and you respect that.

As for prohibition, nope there's nothing that two callers can't say to each other, there are restrictions on them being inapropriate to you, but that's it, and really they're not supposed to talk directly to us other than to facilitate the call anyways. A few of the women operators (especially the ones there since the 60s) had trouble taking phone-sex calls between couples, and I KNOW that some dudes would phone up the service and when they got me hang up and call back so they could get a female operator (usually sitting nearby) so that they could get a female voice for their steamy/sultry conversations with their girlfriends. :lol: 

You'd be witness to drugs deals and what not, and really there's nothing you should do about it. The only rule was for if someone's life was in immediate danger or a future threat to someone's safety/security/health. And there were enough of those too.

In the end either you respect the fact that what you're doing is acting as their ears, or you don't. The people who bitched about it all the time I don't think they ever grasped that concept, and they let their own personal issues get involved.

There's definitely alot of stories that could be told for that job (even more so than the 911 service), but that's also something you have to respect too. It was tempting to right down a few phone numbers after hearing the conversations though, but I never did. :frown:

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
March 10, 2005 3:37:16 AM

Wow I can imagine! I Hadn't considered some of the other aspects, though I know one operator did switch out when Mom and I chose to have a particularly vehement argument one night. For a nice little old lady, my usually articulate and well spoken maternal unit can swear like a sailor on shore leave. LOL. Can't even imagine being the conduit through which some illegal activity or particular strangeness is conveyed. That one somehow never even occurred to me. The Phone Sex must be just hilarious... or very strange depending, I suppose. What an odd way to get going... so to speak.

ok.. On to my next odd question. Any idea how to get a spec on the size of my processor and heatsink? I have to figure out how big a replacement I can stick in there without bumping into the newly installed case fan assembly, which overhangs a corner of the processor (with some clearance, but still... height's going to be a consideration, looks like)... <sigh> Am I gonna have to pull the assembly and measure it that way? Shouldn't there be a spec sheet somewhere with that sort of thing on it? Having trouble finding anything in the downloadable pdf's at Compaq, and since they don't sell the chip any more, I can't check HP Parts for a sales spec.

"I'm sorry Dave... I can't do that."
a b U Graphics card
March 10, 2005 4:05:24 AM

I think you'll have to resort to the old try and measure and see what works method, too hard to find specs on such old things, especially those slot type, etc.

You'd be best of looking at used parts stores and such for upgrades or alternates. And maybe even rig something together to fit your needs.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
March 10, 2005 4:46:52 AM

Yeah I was afraid of that. Can always unplug it all and use a bit of string or something. LOL.. Thanks again! If you see someone setting up a tent on your front lawn, it'll probably be me. J/k!!

"I'm sorry Dave... I can't do that."