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X800XL vs. 6800GT

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March 15, 2005 2:44:43 PM

I've narrowed it down to those 2 cards for my new upgrade.

Which would be the smarter choice?

My current card is the RADEON 9500 PRO, a solid but aged product. The other hardware I have is a 2-year-old P4 2.4ghz running on a 533 bus motherboard. Replacing this hardware is a possibility but I would prefer to just replace the video card if I could.

Thanks in advance for any advice. Great forum!

More about : x800xl 6800gt

March 15, 2005 2:53:21 PM

X800XL

<pre><font color=red>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre><p></font color=red>
a b U Graphics card
March 15, 2005 2:56:08 PM

Is the X800XL even out in AGP, yet?

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March 15, 2005 3:01:58 PM

ehh, you're right, it is not.

<pre><font color=red>°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°`°¤o \\// o¤°`°¤o,¸¸¸,o¤°
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own little sign</pre><p></font color=red>
March 15, 2005 3:19:52 PM

Either are great cards, and if you're buying AGP, the 6800GT is likely cheaper.

If you don't want to upgrade your platform, get the 6800GT.

Be aware though, although your 2,4 Ghz will get you by now, games a year from now will probably require a CPU upgrade for you.

But when that time comes, get yourself a nice Athlon64 Nforce3 socket 939 motherboard with AGP, and take your 6800GT with you.

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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
March 15, 2005 3:52:13 PM

I thought the nf3 chipset was socket 754. Or did you mean the nf4 chipset?

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March 15, 2005 3:58:03 PM

nf3 250 is also skt 939 and agp.

Signature (up to 200 characters). You may use <font color=blue><b>Markup</b></font color=blue> in your signature<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by coylter on 03/15/05 01:23 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
March 15, 2005 4:10:44 PM

Pretty helpful so far.

I'm not company-biased, just looking for the better product until my next upgrade (2 years from now).

I also heard that the x800 series doesn't support shader 3.0, while the nVidia 6000's do. Is that true? Are there any other (dis)advantages the X800 might have (I love games, but don't care for Doom 3 much -- more of a UT2004/Far Cry/Painkiller guy myself).

Also, if I DID decide to get a new motherboard, would it then make more sense to get the X800XL? The model I'm looking at is made by MSI. The 6800GT is made by ASUS.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
March 15, 2005 4:11:06 PM

Wow, I didn't know that. So that's a 939 agp board, that's pretty cool, nice option for the pci-e phobics :smile:

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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
March 15, 2005 4:16:22 PM

It's really just a preference thing. You like camaroes or mustangs better? Look at the benches and available options on each, and then decide. I'd say that is SM 3.0 is important to you, then the 6800gt is for you. If not, then I would go for the x800xl. Then again the whole agp thing in your case, probably go for the 6800gt and skip the waiting. :smile:

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a b U Graphics card
March 15, 2005 7:29:23 PM

Quote:
nf3 250 is also skt 939 and agp.

Actually, the nF3 250 is s754 with AGP. nF3 Ultra is s939 with AGP.


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March 15, 2005 7:59:11 PM

Quote:
(I love games, but don't care for Doom 3 much -- more of a UT2004/Far Cry/Painkiller guy myself).

In that case, the X800 XL is definitely the way to go. Nvidia's strength is in their OpenGL execution, which is pretty much only used by Doom3 and Quake games.

Radeons are the better bet with Half Life2, Far Cry, and UT.

The problem is, X800 XL's won't be out for AGP for a month or so. And the 6800GT is still very good in those titles, so if you're staying with AGP it's the one to buy.

But if you're considering a PCI-e board, X800 XL all the way.

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March 15, 2005 8:29:22 PM

I have a top of the line ASUS Mobo and love it, but I wouldnt buy an ASUS Video card. They are overpriced terribly bad. I would at least consider another brand.

<font color=red>Now that I have given up hope, I feel alot better</font color=red>
March 15, 2005 9:08:01 PM

If ur a ddict, you need some rehabilatation from some drug clinics.

i know some good ones want there numbers?

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March 15, 2005 9:08:08 PM

If ur a adict, you need some rehabilatation from some drug clinics.

i know some good ones want there numbers?

<font color=purple> MY FINGER IS ON THE BUTTON! </font color=purple>
March 15, 2005 10:21:54 PM

My guess is pretty much what the others have said I'd go with the 6800GT if you're staying AGP but X800XL for PCI-E. Also I think Painkiller is an OpenGL game and with his CPU I think both cards will be a little bottlenecked. You can't really go wrong with either card so I'd go by price.
March 16, 2005 1:19:13 AM

How much was it?

<font color=red>Now that I have given up hope, I feel alot better</font color=red>
March 16, 2005 4:56:14 AM

Ive been meaning to ask if you had read the first episode of my conspiracy theory yet. You were in episode 1 :tongue:


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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
March 17, 2005 6:03:28 AM

*ties off arm, taps vein, readies needle* :eek: 

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March 17, 2005 6:11:26 AM

Quote:
Radeons are the better bet with Half Life2, Far Cry, and UT.


pfft! WTF is that BS?
Radeons are better in HL2/FC/UT?

Um ok!
NV is without question superior in OGL.. but just because that is true does NOT make ATI take home the gold in DX!

Far from it, they are about equal on driver performance in DX.
NV does exceptional in HL2/FC/UT..


And if he was to go PCIE, its not X800XL all the way.. what if he had a SLI NF4? I think from personal experience my 2x 6800GTs blow poo out the tailpipe all over a X800XL.. and SM3 is nothing to sneeze at.

While a X800XL (if you can get one for MSRP) is a great card.. but nothing to write home about besides price/performance.. its certainly lacking NVs gold standard drivers, SLI capability and SM3.
Things that certainly dont warrant a "hands down recommendation" for the 800XL..
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
March 17, 2005 6:16:54 AM

Out of curiosity, I want to ask you a question GAME. How much did you spend on just your mainboard and 2 graphics cards?

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March 17, 2005 6:43:44 AM

$925, right after christmas

why do you ask? is that the value of your home?
or do we have another stupendous, irrelevant cross examination coming up

are we attacking the price of the equipment because everything else i say is true?
i'll answer that: yes. plenty are doing it across the web.. bash SLI on whatever, even if you have to point to your own empty pocketbook.


this here, is america.. we are not stifled by socialism. i have plenty of cash for another measly 6800GT.. and I have a friend that said I can have a job at <A HREF="http://www.rockwellcollins.com/" target="_new">rockwell collins</A>. Defense contracts baby.
So I'm not too worried about another $400 6800GT, what else would I spend that money on? Food? Clothes? ya right.

Its 400bucks man.. when your only frivolous hobby is your computer and your cars.. its just not NEARLY as big of a deal as the 16yr old kids across the web make it out to be.

And.. they wont be using SLI.. which is just great for them

but theres no possible true emotion from ppl about SLI other than envy, its like a lamborghini.. you might bash one cuz you cant afford it (or just refuse to get it).. <i>but you'd still take one over whatever the hell you are driving today!</i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by GAME on 03/17/05 03:53 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
March 17, 2005 6:58:36 AM

Nah, no x-exam here, just plain curious. Actually I had wanted to originally go that route, but it's just not realistic for me. Bought my first house about a year ago and I live in CA. Lets just say that houses cost a tad more than $925 in this part of the country :smile: Honestly tho, if I had the cash to play with freely, I would probably have gone that route. All else aside it's probably the best option performance wise ATM, even if everyone says it's a waist money wise. I just have to be real "efficient" with my spending right now.

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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
March 17, 2005 6:59:19 AM

Oh, and lay off the caffeine a little bit, it'll kill you :smile:

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March 17, 2005 7:07:11 AM

sorry man, it was just a preemptive strike (i kinda do things GWB style)
you caught the clack clack clack! of the cross fire

but i got both cards for $375 a piece (BFG 6800GT OCs) and the motherboard for $175

i kinda wish i'd waited for the DFI.. but this is a nice board, and my 2nd choice after the DFI
asus is a great, trusted brand.. and its rock solid

its just a shame i can only pull 2.45-2.5ghz out of my CPU.. i think the motherboard is at fault.. but asus engineers emailed wesley fink at anandtech the other day and said they'd have a new bios out this week that makes it highly competitive against the DFI.. so we'll see.

i think overclocking is a lot mroe than just bios updates, ie. component quality/board design.. which i think DFI knows best.. but we'll see if they can pull a little bit more out of this Asus

i'd recommend it, esp if you get it cheaper than most SLI boards like i did (at the time at least)
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
March 17, 2005 7:18:41 AM

Since I can't go SLI, I opted for the DFI ultra-d board. It got great reviews everywhere I read, has nice OC potential and some great features, so we'll see when I get it :smile: BTW, I do enjoy reading GrapeApes' and your threads/replies. Lotta info there.

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March 17, 2005 12:59:02 PM

Quote:
NV is without question superior in OGL.. but just because that is true does NOT make ATI take home the gold in DX!

Far from it, they are about equal on driver performance in DX.
NV does exceptional in HL2/FC/UT..

Um... I don't know how to tell you this, but have a look at the benches dude.

You take an Ati card VS it's competing Nvidia card in the same price category, and the Ati card will take the HL2, Far Cry, and UT wins.

It's not a bias, it'a a fact. Have a look at the benches.

Quote:
And if he was to go PCIE, its not X800XL all the way.. what if he had a SLI NF4? I think from personal experience my 2x 6800GTs blow poo out the tailpipe all over a X800XL..

2x 6800GTs are <i>not</i> in the same price category as the X800 XL.

That's like saying "Ati is better because the X850 XT beats the 6600GT!". They're not competing products. They're not in the same price category. Just like the X800 XL doesn't compete against two 6800GTs.

You don't see the people you've branded as Ati-fanatics comparing the X850 XT to a 6800GT. Yet you compare a single card that's less than half the price of a dual solution?

What are you smoking? Do you have to strive that hard to find an excuse to buy an Nvidia branded product?

If a person can get 85% the performance of $650 of Nvidia hardware with a $300 Ati purchase of an X800 XL, it's retarded to advocate the nvidia solution. (and that's not even including Nvidia's $50 SLI mobo tax)

Kinney, man... you have to realize that not everyone has unlimited funds. Price is THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR for MOST PEOPLE ON THIS PLANET.

You're going to have to understand that before your advice becomes useful to more than the 0.5% of people with an unlimited budget.

Nvidia had their day with the 6600GT and 6800GT, but Ati is the sleeping Giant that's been awoken this time around. Ati has reclaimed the $200 and $300 price points with the X800 and X800 XL.

Nvidia will respond with better products at those price points in about 6 months, and the cycle will continue.


P.S. And an FYI, X800's and X800 XL's can be had for MSRP EVERYWHERE now. They've delivered, they're in stock, and they're selling.

If you're really interested in buying any, I can list the URLs to online retailers for you. :wink:


Oh, and one more thing... in the $200 price category, <b>the vanilla X800 256mb BEATS THE 6600GT in Doom3 when AA and AF are enabled!</b>

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March 17, 2005 1:13:09 PM

Ya, SLI is not really an option for me, as it would not be for most people.
March 17, 2005 2:24:06 PM

Cleeves correct on hes points.

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March 17, 2005 5:05:22 PM

yeah and its all how to categorize things, but of course when you stack the lines against each other ATI comes out on top lol
you guys did this back in the day too

thing is, for a very long time the ati lineup was hardly even available! then their prices were insane (see x850xt pe@newegg for $1000 even today).. its such a joke.. but now of course when you stack whatever against whatever- ATI comes out on top
oh and SLI has no competitor (due to the fact it destroys ATI) so it "doesnt count" lol
March 17, 2005 5:31:03 PM

How conveniently you forget that for a long time, this board was unanimously recommending Nvidia cards for those price points (6600GT and 6800GT), while telling people that the X800 XTs and 6800U's were in a dead heat, and it came down to the features people find more attractive - and availability.

As an unbiased board, we recommend the best cards available at a given price point.

Now Ati has the best cards at those price points, so they will get recommended, until Nvidia comes up with the superior product. Which will happen inevitably, regardless of your bias. Just like Ati will inevitably offer better products in the product cycle after that. Ad infinitum, or until one of them is put out of business or bought out by the other.

That's not bias, as you would have people believe. Actually, it's the definition of non-bias. It's capitalism. We don't give a $hit who makes the best cards for the price, we just recommend 'em.

As for you (the only unbiased guy in the world in your opinion) you would have us recommend Nvidia cards all of the time, regardless of their performance relative to other cards. You would have us recommend SLI to casual gamers who only have $200 to spend on a videocard. You would have us tell people that $300 for an X800 XL is a bad investment because they could buy two SLI'd 6800GTs for more than twice the price for maybe a 20%-40% performance boost (if the game happens to support it well).

When the board is recommending Nvidia cards, you whine that we're not denouncing Ati.

When we recommend Ati cards, you cry foul and bias, and fail to notice that we're not denouncing Nvidia.

You cling desparately to a corporate logo that you have somehow linked to your own self worth for reasons I can't even begin to understand. You find it disturbing that another company makes a desirable product, and try to pretend it away by comparing it to a product that flies under your own banner that costs more than twice as much.

You are the worst fanboy ever, dude. Seriously.

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March 17, 2005 6:55:58 PM

Cleeve yet again nailed it again on the head.

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a b U Graphics card
March 17, 2005 7:12:58 PM

Yeah, wow, I'd have to agree.

Evidence to this forum recommending the best card at any given time reguardless of brand is in the video card poll. 6800 series AGP leads, followed by the 9800 series. Best buys for their times. If we were all ATI gung-ho, X800 pro would lead this new generation as they have been available from the start. But hey we all said (besides some modders), forget X800 pro...go 6800GT for more performance at the same price.


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March 17, 2005 9:56:05 PM

ya ya ya.. canadians for capitalism.. right!
March 17, 2005 10:39:12 PM

Nice retort there, Kinney.

By the way, I'm not sure why you don't know this, or how this is relevant to your fanboyism, but we're a capitalist country.

If you're interested in discussing irrelevant information about Canada, here's a historical tidbit for you: the US attacked us once... we chased you back to Washington and burned down the white house. Not being particularly warlike, we then we turned back and went home.

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a b U Graphics card
March 17, 2005 10:56:09 PM

Quote:
If you're interested in discussing irrelevant information about Canada, here's a historical tidbit for you: the US attacked us once... we chased you back to Washington and burned down the white house. Not being particularly warlike, we then we turned back and went home.

Don't bash all of us Americans with irrelevant information over one fanboys rants...

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<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by rugger on 03/17/05 07:56 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
a b U Graphics card
March 17, 2005 11:23:36 PM

It was in good humor. Replies to Kinney are usually more aggressive, so don't take it personally. He dishes it out, so he gets it back, that's all.

I think it was British and Canadian troops who marched down to the Whitehouse though (not just ticked off Canadians), but we can let them keep their victory dance going. But then again, would they have been part of the States if they hadn't pushed us back? I guess that's reason enough for them to celebrate and write songs. Oh well, i hated history in school, so maybe somebody else should clarify it all. Maybe it was just ticked off Canadians. Thankfully for both Countries we get along like siblings now. :eek: 

EDIT: OK had to Google this one. The White House was burned down in 1814 and Canada bacame a county when? 1867? So I guess it was British troops and not Canadian troops that chased us back down South, as Canada wasn't a Country yet.




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<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Pauldh on 03/17/05 08:29 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
March 17, 2005 11:29:47 PM

oooo GOD thats the funniest thing i have heard today.

canadians kicking ass and burning the white house.

the funny thing about it, its true.

the president now stays at white house number 2. ROFL.

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a b U Graphics card
March 17, 2005 11:40:46 PM

Hey now, technically we never attacked Canada right? War of 1812 - So when did <A HREF="http://www.infotoday.com/linkup/lud090103-clark.shtml" target="_new">Canada become a Country? 1867?</A> I guess we were just still fueding with the Brits living to out North right? And wasn't it 1947 before you actually became "Canadians", rather than <A HREF="http://archives.cbc.ca/IDC-1-73-423-2428-20/that_was_th..." target="_new">Brits living in Canada</A>? Man, I must have just slept through history (ages ago) as some of this seems to be new news to me.


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March 18, 2005 12:08:10 AM

O well the brits and the french burnt the white house ROFL, yes. (joke dont send the NSA to my house)

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March 18, 2005 12:39:14 AM

Heheh, you got me on the technicality Paul. but remember, those brits started Canada in the first place, and lived in Canadian land, so it's half true. :wink:

Sorry to offend the american folk on the board, not my intention. But kinney dissed my people and I felt it appropriate to respond in kind.

Except for Kinney and the Slinvidiots, you guys are great neighbors. :smile:

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a b U Graphics card
March 18, 2005 12:49:27 AM

No offense taken at all Cleeve. All in good humor. You just made me do a much needed little history lesson. First thing google popped up was some song about you folks burning the Whitehouse. Anyway, Kinney often embarrasses me as a fellow countryman, but he cracks me up sometimes too with the things he will say. I don't take offense to things said to him as since he dishes it out full speed, he certainly asks for retaliation.


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March 18, 2005 1:18:25 AM

No. That was the Brits. Canada didnt exist then.
Its like saying my ancestors that lived in the USA back in 1702.. the USA didnt exist then.

Any history class across the globe will teach you that the war of 1812 was vs the British, not the Canadians..
nice try to ride the accomplishments of the #2 people in the world (after the USA, of course).
a b U Graphics card
March 18, 2005 1:24:29 AM

Quote:
but remember, those brits started Canada in the first place, and lived in Canadian land, so it's half true

Well, before that, we just wanted them gone from here so we booted them up to you. Or did we want you gone so we booted you up there? I am so confused. :eek: 

I should add, you both turned out alright in the end.


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<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Pauldh on 03/17/05 10:26 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
March 18, 2005 3:04:47 AM

Both are great cards and perform well. It really comes down to platform and cost.

The one problem I have with recommending the X800XL over the 6800GT--if price being the same--is featureset. SM 3.0 at some point is going to come into play; and while ATi cards since the R3xx days have had Geometry Instancing support in HW, it requires some work around to work in DX9 whereas this feature in the 6800 series is more standard compliant (if that makes sense). And there is also the FP blending which may, or may not, be more effecient in games that take this effect into consideration during development (instead of slapping it on ala FC).

With the race so close between the two cards performance wise I tend to look at the bells and whistles. Now there is a chance that by the time SM 3.0 features arrive the GT may be underwhelming, but then again it may be comparable to the Radeon 9700s/9500s (the first DX9 cards from ATi) that do DX9 very well. We just do not know yet... but it is always nice to get the extras if you can. Just my 2 cents.

Another thing to look at is OCing. I have not followed the XL reviews too much recently (last one I read said they had a hard time getting a 10% OC out of the core), so I am not sure how much it OCs. But my 6800GT (eVGA) OCs from 350 core to 420 core, and 1.0 mem to 1.14 mem no problem. These are above Ultra speeds. I know that the eVGAs and Leadtechs tend to OC well, so that is another consideration.

Now if you can get an X800XL for $300 while 6800GTs are going for $350 get the XL--I would, and I own a GT! $50 is more RAM, a new game, or whatever. You will enjoy that more than the hope of maybe, someday, getting better features that may, or may not, perform well.

Either way both cards are great so do enjoy!
a b U Graphics card
March 18, 2005 3:18:36 AM

First of all remember there's a difference between becoming a country and being a peoples (see Law Among Nations for that stuff). Canada existed before 1867 but was not a country it was a colony, and as such Canadians existed just not as indpendant citizens.

You know the WhieHouse wasn't always called the White House it was the war and the painting over of smoke and ash marks that earned it the name.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
a b U Graphics card
March 18, 2005 3:32:14 AM

Well said.

I'm interested in seeing what UE3.0 brings to the table as the next gen cards are supposed to have full FP32-Blending support instead of FP16, also without the legacy support of DX8 and below, this will likely be a true test of whether the benifits pay-off.

Quote:
I have not followed the XL reviews too much recently (last one I read said they had a hard time getting a 10% OC out of the core), so I am not sure how much it OCs.

Well the X800XL doesn't overclock as well as one might hop but it's not bad (although it is just 12.5% on the core, as always these cards are appearing to benifit most from the memory boosts.

Without any major effor Guru3D got theirs to 450/1200;
<A HREF="http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/187/15/" target="_new">http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/187/15/&lt;/A>

Too bad it wasn't Low-K 110nm, now imagine the 90nm Low-K (probably little OC overhead there too because they'll likely pump as much out of them as they can and still achieve goods yields)

The main thing right now is price diferences, which is why I think the AGP versions will have a tough time since they will be more closely priced, and it'll come down to more of a choice of the applications people use.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
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