Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

ATI or Nvidia

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
Share
March 18, 2005 10:26:10 PM

Hey guys, i'm gonna be getting a new card soon and would like to know which is better to go with. 6800 or like a x800xl or whatever is better at a decent price range. I will be using PCIe. I'd like to get the best card that I could for $330 or less. Suggestions please.

More about : ati nvidia

a b U Graphics card
March 18, 2005 10:50:01 PM

X800XL's can be found for under $300 and blow away anything for that price. <b>That is the PCI-e card to get in your price range.</b> NVidia's closest performing card is the GF6800GT, which will run you almost $100 more.

Side note: In AGP, the GF6800GT is a very good buy and just about down in that $330 range now. X800XL AGP is not quite out yet and will cost about the same as the GF6800Gt.

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=658042" target="_new">3DMark05</A> <A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=3781954" target="_new">3DMark03</A>
March 18, 2005 10:56:45 PM

i shall keep on waiting for r520 =P

<font color=red>One Lowe</font color=red>
Related resources
March 19, 2005 2:34:07 AM

Another vote for the X800 XL.

It's the clear choice at that price point in PCI-e.

________________
<b>Radeon <font color=red>9700 PRO</b></font color=red> <i>(o/c 332/345)</i>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>3200+</b></font color=red> <i>(Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)</i>
<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>5,354</b>
March 19, 2005 6:10:24 AM

I vote for 800xl 300 bucks and you get 16 pipes and performance that sometimes equal that of a 400-500 buck card like the 6800gt pci-e
a b U Graphics card
March 19, 2005 8:57:06 AM

<pre>X800XL</pre><p>
__________________________________________________
<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>
March 20, 2005 5:35:30 AM

Just to add to my post count I'll agree X800XL it's no contest right now.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
March 20, 2005 5:49:16 AM

x800xl no doubt, can't wait to get mine going :smile:

<font color=green> Woohoo!! I am officially an <b> Addict </b>!! </font color=green>
<i> <font color=red> One new Firefox fan </font color=red> </i>
<pre> Always remember to keep testicles away from live wiring </pre><p>
a b U Graphics card
March 20, 2005 11:22:58 AM

Wonder why Kinney didn't throw out the 6800GT SLI option... :evil: 

__________________________________________________
<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
March 20, 2005 8:35:52 PM

He's been called away to fight under another forum banner (AT).

He may be back in a few days I guess.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
March 21, 2005 4:13:20 AM

LMAO!! :smile:

<font color=green> Woohoo!! I am officially an <b> Addict </b>!! </font color=green>
<i> <font color=red> One new Firefox fan </font color=red> </i>
<pre> Always remember to keep testicles away from live wiring </pre><p>
March 21, 2005 5:51:38 AM

Hmm my name is being mentioned.. I hear my name from miles away..


by the way, here my POV. which of course is different than this michael jackson neverland-like ATI fanboy playground's opinion.

its hilarous to see everyone being like "SA-WHEETZORZ! ATI FINALLY HAS SOMETHING WORTH A [-peep-]!"

my take and statement on this is as follows:

i do not hate the x800xl.. why would I? the only TRUE fanboy that i've identified around here is wusy, and i'm 99% sure cleeve would give his left nut to put ATI in 1st place every gen. :evil: 

but its a good card, esp if you are short on cash.
do i feel the extra $100 is worth it to go 6800gt? Yes. I feel DX9C support and SLI upgrade capability is well worth it, take it from me.. I use 2 of these things and it totally obliterates anything ATI can muster. Esp a puny x800xl.

But, that said.. i coudl see why someone who didnt have a NF4 SLI might not care about this.. and i could concieve ppl not having the wisdom to not at least want SM3 right now.. fine.

But as a final point, i think its shitty it took ATI this long to put out a decent card that is actually worth buying (ie. getting something available, and for MSRP).. and RIGHT AS THEIR OWN SM3/SLI HARDWARE IS RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER, PPL ARE EXPECTED TO BUY THIS.

I'd suggest against it, maybe if this was last summer and the x800xl was here.. I'd be a fan.. but its too little, too late.

Not a bad choice! Dont get me wrong.. but not my choice for the above reasons.

I personally prob wouldnt buy either lineup right now due to the new cards coming fairly soon.
But if I were too, and I wasnt the type to upgrade every year (which the OP apparantly isnt if he waited this long, this gen).. then I'd get a GF6. You are going to be stuck with this card for some time probably.. do yourself a favor and get DX9C hardware (Geforce6).. longterm it IS better.
ESPECIALLY considering you have to have PCIE for the X800XL anyway.

But if you are more than likely running a NF4 SLI, then in the name of God.. you'd be a retard to not at least think about the 6800GT.
March 21, 2005 6:01:18 AM

we all know for sure the BEST mid to high end card around is the Volari V8, i mean that thing is just amazing!

RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
120% nVidia Fanboy+119% Money Fanboy
GeForce 6800 Ultra--> The Way we thought FX 5800Ultra is meant to be played
THGC's resident Asian and nVboy :D 
March 21, 2005 7:41:15 PM

isnt it funny how they put out the bat signal, so I come.. and i EVEN bring you, my trusty sidekick.
And this is how they repay me?

No love.
a b U Graphics card
March 21, 2005 8:48:43 PM

So for $300, would you say <A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21977" target="_new">2 plain GF6600's in SLI</A> is a better option than an X800XL? IMO, that(6600 SLI)is an absolute waste. What's the point? Anyway, just wanted to catch you before you headed back to the cave to mess with drivers and profiles. :smile:


<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=658042" target="_new">3DMark05</A> <A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=3781954" target="_new">3DMark03</A>
March 21, 2005 9:50:48 PM

no no no, i only said what was said.

i think ANY SLI capable card is a good thing. you dont have to add a 2nd card, but since pretty much everyone uses a NF4 these days.. the card you put in there, no matter what it is.. should be SLI capable.

my statement on 6600SLI is that I personally wouldnt do it myself. But its a nice option for someone who might have a reason for such a setup. I'm not going to brainstorm for that situation.. but it leaves another open option that ATI cards do not have.

Popping in one 6600 though, and having that window open to use SLI is a huge and great benefit to using a 6600 though.

I think NV should make their entire lineup SLI capable, even 6200s. What would it hurt?
Other than have you aTI fanboys bashing on how "bad" 6200 SLI is.. but who cares? Its better than the 9200 with NO SLI capability.
March 21, 2005 9:58:54 PM

Quote:
and i'm 99% sure cleeve would give his left nut to put ATI in 1st place every gen.

lol. The only thing I'd give my left nut for is to see you to stop being such a corporate lackey. let's look at the stats shall we?

Geforce 2 VS Radeon generation: The forum unanimously declares the Geforce2 better, because it was. Where's Kinney?

Geforce 4 Ti VS Radeon 8500 generation: The forum unanimously declares the Geforce4 ti better, because it was. Where's Kinney?

Radeon 9700 PRO > GeforceFX generation:
The forum unanimously declares the 9700 PRO better, because it is. Kinney fights to the death for the FX, this forum calls it like it is, a POS.

The 6600GT and 6800GT show up; this forum hails them as best in class, Kinney calls everyone a fanboy for not saying Ati is a bad company while recommending them. (???)

The X800 vanilla and X800 XL show up: this forum hails them as the new best-in-class, Kinney suggests everyone buy more expensive hardware for fewer frames per second because of a feature that is, for right now and for another 12 months, completely useless.

(unless you have far Cry and a dual-6800 ultra setup, because that's the only way SM 3.0 HDR lighting is playable. gee, how useful is SM 3.0 in the 6xxx series if you need two top-of-the-line SLI'd cards to use it? You're going to have to buy next-gen to get any real use out of SM 3.0, by the looks of it, because this gen can't cut it.)

Hmmmm... yeah, I think that about covers it. The next time nvidia brings out superior hardware at those price points I'll be backing them, (hell, I still do in the segments they rule... like the ~$300 AGP segment) not whining that Ati is still better because a company's percieved market dominance is not a benchmark for my own self worth.

Who'd give their left nut for a company's hardware superiority, Kinney? Given your track record you're kind of hard to take seriously.

________________
<b>Radeon <font color=red>9700 PRO</b></font color=red> <i>(o/c 332/345)</i>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>3200+</b></font color=red> <i>(Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)</i>
<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>5,354</b>
March 21, 2005 11:20:38 PM

a direct attack from cleeve on muah???
if im a corporate lackey, you must be ati's corporate b!tch.
either way, you neglected to point out that up until the R300, Nvidia dominated ATi like a little ho. The competition was 3dfx.

this r520 launch of the real truth, if it is great then R300 wasnt ATI's ArtX lucky shot at 15minutes of fame.

a bit twisting on the facts, for one the 9700 pro didnt have any DX9 games anyway. even the "horrible" 5800ultra didnt do bad at DX8 games (the games available at release)

but see, DX9C doesnt matter, but good DX9 performance back then was like "ooh ahhh"
shoe goes on the other foot, and watch the masses cater to ATI

to many ATI fanboys were created during the R300 years.. its a shame how long its taken people to wake up and realize ATI was a one shot flop. they STILL dont have their drivers up to par.
now that Nvidia has been owning ATI this gen, everyones like I'M IMPARTIAL.. while at the same time attempting valiantly (but unsuccessfully) to convince everyone ATI is still on top.

Sorry, but the masses have spoken. NV40 and SLI brought down the house on ATI.

Everyones running Nforce4s and the top systems are powered by SLI.
Maybe not here in BFE, but this place is like that movie you like to play with your mosquito penis while watching.. "Deliverance" right? :evil: 
March 21, 2005 11:37:49 PM

For sure Nvidia dominated Ati. If you want to call Ati terms "like a little ho" to make you feel better about yourself and cour corporate sponsorship, go to town.
You can call them bitch, whore, whatever. you see, I don't take it personally... it doesn't really have any bearing on my life.

Geforce2 > Radeon, Geforce4Ti > 8500, you see I can say those things without putting down Nvidia because I don't think any of these companies have any relation to my self image.

If you're talking tech however, you should smarten up and realize that the time to defend the failed geforceFX experiment is gone and done. A 9700 PRO can play Doom3 and half Life 2 today, wheras a GeforceFX 5800 can't. Plain and simple... defend that.
So all those guys you told were stupid for buying Ati back then because they'd get no longevity out of their cards made a much better investment than they would have if they'd have gone Nvidia. This isn't anything against Nvidia mind you, it's simply a fact. And a testament to your inability to call a spade a spade.

If Nvidia wants to buy a small company like ArtX and give us better hardware, I certainly don't begrudge them. I applaud them. Go to town Nvidia. Go to town, Ati. Hell, go to town S3, if you make the best hardware I'm onboard.

"the masses have spoken" Lol. The masses have SLI now? Where are you getting those numbers, sport? The depths of the imagination?

SLI rigs can do nifty things, but saying the masses have them is pure SLInvidiot fantasy.

The funniest part will be watching you go silent on the boards when the next Ati card is released, and then watching you come back a few months later when Nvidia releases their next card so you can claim Ati never did anything right and never made anything worth buying in your absence.

P.S. If you really want is to talk about my cock, I think you're on the wrong forum. I'm not into the "deliverance" thing like you are, but I'll send pictures of it if you have enough cash. :smile:

________________
<b>Radeon <font color=red>9700 PRO</b></font color=red> <i>(o/c 332/345)</i>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>3200+</b></font color=red> <i>(Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)</i>
<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>5,354</b>
March 22, 2005 12:05:30 AM

first of all

Kinney, according to the mighty Valve, 9800pros are the most used graphics card right now, Ti4200 era is over :p 

second, how come nobody likes XGI :( 

also, 5800Ultra is the most innovative video card in history so far, bring me a ATi card that can be used as a dust blower, heater, hair dryer AND a BBQ, and you can tell me 9700pro is better.

On a serious note, ATi VS nVidia, poof this debate has gone on for years, ever since ATi started making somewhat of a competition with nVidia. Is this going anywhere? NO cause Intel is still owning the market eyes closed. :D 
nothing will be solved when R520 comes out
cause its just next gen flame war all over again. Who's excited about R600? :D 

PS. I treat SLi as dirty marketing tactics, same with whatever ATi is going to put out, so they both suck :p 




RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
120% nVidia Fanboy+119% Money Fanboy
GeForce 6800 Ultra--> The Way we thought FX 5800Ultra is meant to be played
THGC's resident Asian and nVboy :D 
March 22, 2005 12:17:05 AM

Quote:
9700 PRO can play Doom3 and half Life 2 today, wheras a GeforceFX 5800 can't. Plain and simple... defend that.
So all those guys you told were stupid for buying Ati back then because they'd get no longevity out of their cards made a much better investment than they would have if they'd have gone Nvidia.

Sure I'll defend that.
You just illustrated the mind of a ATI fanboy for everyone.
Back then everyone was like "BUY ATI FOR DX9 HARDWARE, IT WILL LAST LONGER!!" and no one knew that it would turn out like it did.. no one!
And still today, the outlook is just as good on SM3/DX9C and you do not give the NV40 the benefit of the doubt for that.

So here YOU are, telling guys not to buy a GF6 because it wont have the longevity in DX9C performance.. but you were willing to give ATI the benefit of the doubt.
How telling and twisted the tale becomes!

Quote:
the masses have spoken" Lol. The masses have SLI now? Where are you getting those numbers, sport? The depths of the imagination?

SLI rigs can do nifty things, but saying the masses have them is pure SLInvidiot fantasy.


I never said the masses have it. I dont care if they do.. I'd rather they dont, so that I dominate more.
What I said was that SLI is a breakthrough success, against all odds and against all the fanboys like yourself who attempt to downplay it as well as they can. But thats aweful hard when looking at the results, and seeing ATI endorse SM3/SLI, hence everyone kinda gives up on that one.

But the masses have approved it, nothing pulls the performance SLI does. For instance, in 1900x1200 (which high end rigs that most SLI is installed uses), or 20x15.. ONLY SLI can push in latest games with any level of AA/AF.
Thats where the advantages lie.. and this is because it is so powerful.
IMO, its like having a next-gen card.. today.

No, its not for the masses with 17" CRTs. But having the possibility of adding another 6600/6800GT is a great advantage and choice to have available.
March 22, 2005 12:26:03 AM

didnt i own you on this the other day

SLI/AMR is not dirty marketing to get ppl to buy 2 cards instead of 1
it only cost Nvidia millions of dollars to develop, including a motherboard/driver/video cards that all supported it.. then they had to get ppl interested enough to buy their boards AND video cards.. quite a task and HUGE risk.

but they did it, the masses approve. everyones running a NF4 and most peeps have GF6 this gen.
X800xl is too little, too late. anyone who was going to buy this gen, more than likely already did.

that evil nvidia.. they invest millions in development and new risky product launches not only including new video cards and drivers, but a whole NF4 platform to support it.. and I get the highest gaming performance money can buy..

BASTARDS!!!!
March 22, 2005 12:56:50 AM

Quote:
Back then everyone was like "BUY ATI FOR DX9 HARDWARE, IT WILL LAST LONGER!!" and no one knew that it would turn out like it did.. no one!

Lol. EVERYIONE saw the writing on the wall. EVERYONE saw the FX architecture couldn't go toe to toe with R3xx.
Except Nvidia fanboys who couldn't see past their own prejudice.

Quote:
And still today, the outlook is just as good on SM3/DX9C and you do not give the NV40 the benefit of the doubt for that.

I disagree. Not only is the difference between DX9 and 9c smaller than Dx8 and Dx9, but Far Cry proves that 6xxx hardware is not up to the task... in a CURRENT title. What happenas when next gen titles come out?

At the end of the day, keep telling yourself Ati sucks. The fact is sooner or later they will inevitably get the upper hand again. And Nvidia after that.

Claiming they suck really does nothing to change that.

I feel sorry for you. It must be horrible to link your own feelings to a company's hardware so much it actually makes you feel mad if anyone does better.

________________
<b>Radeon <font color=red>9700 PRO</b></font color=red> <i>(o/c 332/345)</i>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>3200+</b></font color=red> <i>(Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)</i>
<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>5,354</b>
March 22, 2005 1:11:27 AM

Quote:
Lol. EVERYIONE saw the writing on the wall. EVERYONE saw the FX architecture couldn't go toe to toe with R3xx.
Except Nvidia fanboys who couldn't see past their own prejudice.

You are starting to catch on and smell your own hypocrisy.
You can't see through your own prejudice today yourself.

Quote:
I disagree. Not only is the difference between DX9 and 9c smaller than Dx8 and Dx9, but Far Cry proves that 6xxx hardware is not up to the task... in a CURRENT title. What happenas when next gen titles come out?

Of course you would!
DX9C is what MS wanted the original DX9 to be! But it was influenced by ATI not to be. Nv missed out on alot of the DX9 spec talks.
I'd rather have the full DX9C, which will be spec until WGF/longhorn is launched.

Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones. Remember that!
March 22, 2005 1:52:07 AM

OK, Kinney. In my humble opinion you're not only full of it, but you're becoming a paranoid conspiracy theorist.

But there's a simple test to see who'se the fanboy:

I've recommended Geforces to many users on this forum for years, from the Geforce3 to Ti4200 to the 6xxx series. Still do, still will for some time.

The cards I've recommended most are 6600GT's and 6800GTs.

How many people have you recommended X800 based cards to in the past 2 years? Because I can't remember any really.

Or is it your opinion that the entire X800 series has never been worth recommending to anyone?

Is it your opinion that I'm fronting by recommending all these 6600GTs and 6800GTs, to hide the fact that I'm an Nvidia hater?

Because from where I'm sitting, it seems you're so delusionally fanboyish that you have lost all perspective.

________________
<b>Radeon <font color=red>9700 PRO</b></font color=red> <i>(o/c 332/345)</i>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>3200+</b></font color=red> <i>(Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)</i>
<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>5,354</b>
March 22, 2005 2:54:12 AM

I recommended a X800. Even the X800Pro!
Not on this forum, but in RL to my cousin. His GF4 broke, and needed a card.. and wanted a new gen one right away.
The 6800s were about 2 weeks away, but the X800Pro was available.. at the time he paid $420.

He's had it for a pretty long time now, and gotten his moneys worth.

Alas!
Today, the X800 isnt so new, and was hard to find the X800XT PE ever.. and now we have this X800XL, too little, too late. With the R520 right around the corner: =BAD BUY.

In a situation like that, the X800 made perfect sense.
I have not recommended then since the 6800 became available. Then it got even worse for recommending ATI's when the NF4 became an overnight success and the PCIE GF6s became available.
Is that crazy?
To you only.
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
March 22, 2005 4:57:49 AM

Quote:
I'd rather have the full DX9C, which will be spec until WGF/longhorn is launched.

<A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21982" target="_new">DX9.0c is Dead, Long Live WGF1.0 Just like you say!</A> :evil: 


Guess ATI scooped them again! :tongue:


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
March 22, 2005 5:09:55 AM

So where do I download my WGF software from Microsoft? :evil: 
Or my WGF games? :lol: 

I looked for you and only came up with <A HREF="http://www.microsoft.com/windows/directx/default.aspx" target="_new">this</A>
Radeons need not apply (excluding your beloved vaporware Radeon).. and I'll keep looking for that WGF launch :wink:

Even though ATI just wasted a ton of silicon on all those features, its ATI's first SM3 card.. NV is on their 2nd revision of SM3 hardware.. NV's is much more likely to be faster.
So not only will R520s SM3 performance be subpar, their treasured WGL performance will be a joke! Esp when its actually launched!!! LOL

Its sad to see you resort to drooling over ANOTHER paperlaunch from ATI.. I wonder how long it will take them to produce these cards? :smile:

Oh well, this forum has to have SOME kind of hope.. might as well have your ATI paper launches and vaporware to pretend that ATI is beating NV.

Hint to those in denial: in reality, NV won this round and continues to dominate as you continue to masterbate to ATI's paperlaunches like a good lil fanboy. :wink:


edit- I shoudlnt have even bit on yoru post.. because you'd love a hypothetical "FUDO IS GOING TO ROCKSORZ JOO!" debate back and forth.. it would be a nice distraction for you guys to avoid the reality that NV40/NF4 is currently owning everything ATI has to offer.
Fudo is more than likely going to be another mangy mutt from ATI again.. old Hseng will kick that b!tch and we'll see that all dogs DO go to heaven! :wink: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by GAME on 03/22/05 02:28 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
March 22, 2005 1:28:54 PM

Hmmm... OK, let's look at our track records:

I recommend both Nvidia and Geforce products daily based on price points and performance. I don't claim either company's product offerings are useless.

Kinney, on the other hand, says the X800 XL should never get recommended in any case because an unannounced card is better.

Hmmm.

I think the fanboy is pretty obvious. I'll leave it to the community to figure out who has the corporate hard-on.

I love watching your type squirm when pressed into a corner. When R520 arrives before Nvidia's answer, it'll be amusing watching you rationalize all sorts of reasons not to buy it...

________________
<b>Radeon <font color=red>9700 PRO</b></font color=red> <i>(o/c 332/345)</i>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>3200+</b></font color=red> <i>(Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)</i>
<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>5,354</b>
March 22, 2005 1:38:30 PM

Quote:
I recommended a X800. Even the X800Pro!
Not on this forum, but in RL to my cousin. His GF4 broke, and needed a card.. and wanted a new gen one right away.
The 6800s were about 2 weeks away, but the X800Pro was available.. at the time he paid $420.

Alas!
Today, the X800 isnt so new, and was hard to find the X800XT PE ever.. and now we have this X800XL, too little, too late. With the R520 right around the corner: =BAD BUY.


So what you're saying is, SM 3.0 wasn't worth waiting 2 weeks in the case of your cousin, but people should hold off buying an X800 XL because of an unannounced product?

Does anyone else see the logic gap here?

________________
<b>Radeon <font color=red>9700 PRO</b></font color=red> <i>(o/c 332/345)</i>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>3200+</b></font color=red> <i>(Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)</i>
<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>5,354</b>
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
March 22, 2005 4:09:21 PM

Ah ha, I didn't bring up WGF and Longhorn, YOU did! :lol: 

I posted that quicky cause I knew whatever I posted you'd have some excuse for. But funny ATI will once again have the first compliant next gen card once again, and like last generation it'll probably WORK with that next generation, unlike the nV answers. Of course this is just a guess, but considering that they've come to these developments first and with capable cards, history is on their side.

Originally I posted the list of DX9 titles the R3xx generation enjoyed, but you'd never see the parallel that those games had simply sticky taped on features, just like this series of DX9.0C/SM3.0 stuff, which is far from impressive or useful. Be it Halo, X2 (VS2.0, not PS2.0) or TombRaider, no title was mature DX9, and the same can be said of the SM3.0 games now. At least Splinter Cell plays well to slow framerates instead of being handcuffed by them.

Anywhoo, long live the checkbox feature. Woohoo SM3.0/3Dc RoX! :tongue:


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
a b U Graphics card
March 22, 2005 10:05:41 PM

Quote:
Hint to those in denial: in reality, NV won this round and continues to dominate as you continue to masterbate to ATI's paperlaunches like a good lil fanboy.

While this is totally the type of comment I have grown to expect from you, as usual, I wonder where/how you get the info to come to these conclusions? Is it because your 2 6800GT's in SLI outperform the Radeon 9800 you owned for a week?

Anyway, while 2 6800U's in SLI do dominate most of the top games/benchmarks, that is far from meaning NV dominates this round. Since as you say, everyone owns NF4, we will forget AGP (which price/perfomance is NV's strong point IMO). So $300, what's the best PCI-e solution? How about $450? What about $600? NV currently wins the under $200 range with the 6600GT since plain ole 128MB X800's aren't around to buy at their $200 price point. When they are, NV will lose that price point too. Move up the list, it's all ATI from there until you spend almost $800 for two 6800GT's in SLI. So since they win at sub $200, and the $750+ category(in many but not all games), that means they dominate this round? Honestly, you spit out wishes and opinions like they are well known proven facts. Well, I'm not buying it.



<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=658042" target="_new">3DMark05</A> <A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=3781954" target="_new">3DMark03</A>
a b U Graphics card
March 22, 2005 10:21:38 PM

I can not vouch for SLI in Splinter Cell 3, as I have not seen benchies on it. It is listed in the profiles for the new drivers. I'd like to see a trustworthy site review SC3 performance and include SLI configs. That is a game that needs SLI to work in or forget maximizing the visuals until next gen cards come out.

But I can vouch for NV's top of the line single card. Splinter Cell CT with it's PS3.0 settings, HDR, soft shadows, etc., looks amazing. But it is far too much for even the 6800U to handle. Only SLI at this point could possible handle it at the kind of resolutions you'd want with big bucks hardware. I find playable but low framerates at 1024 with no AA to be far too little performance to make me happy. Better off going PS1.1 and raise the res and AA. Honesly, it's one of those things that had me torn...not really happy with either setting. With the X800XTpe and X850XT beating the GF6800U in farcry, what did SM3 give me in that game. Now Splinter Cell 3 confirms the top of the line 6800U OC is too weak to use what it supports. Honestly, I don't see that this situation can get better either. Games will get more demanding, so what good is PS3.0 for the GF6xxx gamer? And what good is SM3, if ATI put's up higher fps with SM2b? I'm not upset I have SM3/PS3, it's a good thing. But I am just not assured it will do me much good ever besides getting to experiment and test(but not really play) some things an X850XT owner can't. But when it comes to playing, the X850XT owner will get to increase AA levels over my 6800U in more games than not.


<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=658042" target="_new">3DMark05</A> <A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=3781954" target="_new">3DMark03</A>
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
March 22, 2005 10:55:46 PM

The funny thing about Splinter Cell and SM3.0 is that truely we end up comparing PS1.1 to PS/SM3.0, and as such the visuals can't really be evenly compared. And like you point out how can this performance get better when even in a title like Caos Theory where they bypass PS2.0 to focus on SM3.0 they still can't achieve efficiencies that make performance better. So the idea of coding from the ground up with SM3.0 in mind offering improvments seems to be negated by the results. Unless of course Chaos Theory is really PS2.0 at heart with SM3.0 dressing ontop, and then locked out of the PS2.0 option for TWIMTBP reasons, nah that's too Chaotic a Theory and borders on conspiracy. I'll chalk it up to simply the weakness of this generations with SM3.0 titles/effects. :evil: 


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
March 23, 2005 4:03:56 AM

lol, ape finally went far enough to actually call DX9C a "checkbox" feature.
Wrong. But telling of your need to downplay DX9C and Nvidia.

Now you can try to beat that into the 5 people that visit this forum, typical of your style.
March 23, 2005 4:07:13 AM

I dont owe you the entire story.. but I'll sum it up for you and let you know: you are wrong.

My cousin HAD to have a card right then. He would have waited had I encouraged him.. but hes a professional Counterstrike player, he had to get something either to work very well for 2 weeks.. or get a permanent card.

Since DX9C has little bearing on CS, it was fine.
March 23, 2005 4:09:36 AM

Quote:
I love watching your type squirm when pressed into a corner. When R520 arrives before Nvidia's answer, it'll be amusing watching you rationalize all sorts of reasons not to buy it...

no ones squirming bitch.

of course there will be a reason not to buy it douchebag.. you should always wait for NV/ATI to both release their product before making a judgement.

Hence my problem with everyone forgetting how NV rules this gen and loving to pretend how R520 rules already, when its not even here. and not even announced, its pathetic, and telling that half of you are fanboys.. and 100% full of sh!t
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
March 23, 2005 6:52:57 AM

Bad day at work today? You sound a bit grumpy :smile:

<font color=green> Woohoo!! I am officially an <b> Addict </b>!! </font color=green>
<i> <font color=red> One new Firefox fan </font color=red> </i>
<pre> Always remember to keep testicles away from live wiring </pre><p>
March 23, 2005 1:31:21 PM

He is sounding grumpy, isn't he? C'mon Kin, where's that thick skin? :wink:

Quote:
you should always wait for NV/ATI to both release their product before making a judgement.

Then you shouldn't have bought a 6xxx series card, because the R520 is coming out... and then you can't buy that card, because another competing card will come out someday... ad infinitum. Dumb philosphy.

At the end of the day, every single hardware review has hailed the X800 XL as the best in class. All your Ati hating rhetoric won't change that.

I'll believe them instead of a lone Nvidia propeganda bitch, but thanks for coming out...

________________
<b>Radeon <font color=red>9700 PRO</b></font color=red> <i>(o/c 332/345)</i>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>3200+</b></font color=red> <i>(Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)</i>
<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>5,354</b>
March 23, 2005 5:28:49 PM

I bought my 6800s quite some time ago now.. NV40<->R420 as is R520<->NV50. In both cases its wise to see which one comes out on top before purchasing.
Always has been that way, from the 3dfx Voodoo2<->Nvidia TNT2 to today.

Its telling though that you are so willing to just go out and rush a purchase from ATI.. thats what you want anyway so of course you "dont understand" my best of breed logic.

I'll make a bet with you, I bet I buy a ATI card sooner than you EVER buy a NV.
You talk the talk, but you arent as impartial as your mouth would have us believe.

edit- btw I'm not going to continue have you drag me down with your gutter language. You keep spouting "bitch" like it turns you on or something.. you sick bastard!<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by GAME on 03/23/05 02:30 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
March 23, 2005 6:01:20 PM

I've always called SM3.0 on this generation a checkbox feature, just lkike I call 3Dc, Truform (since being removed from hardware like you know).

Just like DX9 on the FX series, it's a feature that will let you SEE future effects, but won't let you play those effects anywhere near the rest of your gaming, thus it only gets the 'checkbox feature' seal from me.

It's a nice feature, but like any other feature it's not the ONLY thing to consider, just another one, like ViVo, Dual DVI or passive cooling IMO.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
March 23, 2005 6:25:11 PM

Quote:
I'll make a bet with you, I bet I buy a ATI card sooner than you EVER buy a NV.
You talk the talk, but you arent as impartial as your mouth would have us believe.

I win then. I've already owned more NV cards than I've owned Ati cards. They were great cards, too.

If you'd simply have a look at the posts on this board, you'd see that I've recommended more Nvidia cards than Ati cards in the past 6 months by far. As a matter of fact, I've advocated more Nvidia cards in the last week than you have recommended Ati cards in the last 2 years.

These are not the actions of an Nvidia hater.

This is why your constant babbling is so laughable. Proof is in the pudding, Kinney old chum. Your claim of impartiality is obviously a fake one, evidennced by your obvious hate for Ati.

In fact, there was a time I staunchly defended the 5900XL to your accolades on this very board. Seems that when I'm supporting an Nv product, you consider me the cat's ass. But when I have an opinion that goes against your beloved green graphics champion, how quickly you denounce me as biased.

Pathetic, sir.

Keep deflecting blame if you like, but you've proven your bias over and over, and you continue to do so by claiming that Ati sucks, has no future, only accomplished anything because of ArtX, has no answer to SLI over and over. Yawn. Fanboi rhetoric without substance.

Only fanboys trash talk companies. You've talked any plausable deniability away.

If were the fanboys, alright, find our trash talk. Show me where I said the 6xxx series sucks, that Nvidia only ever created good graphics cards by accident, that SLI is a bad thing.

Go on, smart guy. Start backing up that crap spewing from your fingers on to your greasy keyboard. What's that, you can't? Because no one else is talking trash about Nvidia even though *we're* the fanboys?

Hahaha! It aint there. Do you know why? We don't make excuses for companies. We don't have to, we support the best hardware. Our self esteem isn't linked to a corporate logo.

You're either blind to your prejudice, or you just like to stir things up. Either way, it's becoming harder and harder to take you seriously, Kinney.

P.S. Yes, bitches turn me on. And that is the way it should be, you man-loving buttpirate!

________________
<b>Radeon <font color=red>9700 PRO</b></font color=red> <i>(o/c 332/345)</i>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>3200+</b></font color=red> <i>(Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)</i>
<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>5,354</b>
March 23, 2005 6:51:14 PM

Dont reply to the comments and the fanboyism will be shown up, and it will soon die down.

P.S i love the: P.S. Yes, bitches turn me on. And that is the way it should be, you man-loving buttpirate!

<font color=purple> MY FINGER IS ON THE BUTTON! </font color=purple>
March 23, 2005 9:42:28 PM

OMG!

YOU nVIDIOT!

:p 



RIP Block Heater....HELLO P4~~~~~
120% nVidia Fanboy+119% Money Fanboy
GeForce 6800 Ultra--> The Way we thought FX 5800Ultra is meant to be played
THGC's resident Asian and nVboy :D 
March 24, 2005 2:25:44 AM

why do ppl edit posts and make them so much longer after i read them in the email and already know my response?
i hate that.

anyway, i said i bet i buy NEW ATI hardware before you do.. if ATI's next card is the bee's knees.. I'll be using it.
I think the odds are stacked against it for sure, but no matter who is faster..

whoever gives me DX9C or WGF2.0 is fine for me as far as features. I for one am not too happy with the R520 being WGF1.. I want 2 as its going to be the real standard it seems. But if thats as far as they can go this gen, thats fine.. but if they can meet WGF1 standards when WGF isnt formally released.. why not WGF2.

Anyway, I'm getting that beautiful 19x12 24" LCD to add to this 20".. so whoever is faster on my DFI NF4 gets the cash and my support.
As far as your he said, she said debate, I'm merely saying its wonderful how you find it 100% the only choice to consider (X800XL) when someone needs an upgrade, when not considering the 6800GT is just pure stupidity. You put it in bold like its some kind of official statement, but x800xl is far from some godly item as you pretend.

Its good yes, but aweful shitty ATI FINALLY got something out worth buying.. and now their stuff is right around the corner that is SM3 and beyond.

It makes no sense for someone with a PCIE rig (more than likely a NF4), to buy a SM2/DX9B card right now as ATI is about to replace that and make the whole gaming card market (NV/ATI) DX9C/SM3 or above.
So for the guy who obviously does not upgrade every year (if they waited this long, they just arent that type.. sorry) a GF6 would be a much better choice.. or AT LEAST should be very strongly considered.
Toss in the fact that current ATI cards have no SLI capability, the NF3/4 is <A HREF="http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2004q2/nforce3-geforc..." target="_new">optimized</A> for GeforceFX (and GF6- no apology I dont have the article specifically testing and confirming the same for GF6/NF4..), their better history of supporting older product and better more full-featured drivers all around.. and to me its more than just competitive.

And FAR from being some X800XL throwdown match where all these things considered, is still the hands down winner.
But strangely enough.. in your eyes it is.. and many others around here.. what a QUEER situation this is!

It makes no sense to me.
I for one would consider BOTH lines... ESPECIALLY this gen! You can't right off the plethora of NV advantages just because ATI resorted to their old tactic of undercutting price. I'm not saying its a bad card, or choice. I'm saying you are being damn ignorant placing that card as the "hands down winner".
You wouldnt believe it, but I long considered the X850XT PE over SLI. Esp since I am a CSS connoisseur.

But overall, I found SLI does beat the X850.. it was not readily available at the time (but I was willing to wait unlike yourself, "the unbiased one"... more on that in a minute). I had NO idea if the next gen is going to be a major leap or a baby step (even tho you are hoping and praying R520 is actually worth a damn).. but the truth is NONE OF US HAVE A DAMN CLUE how fast the next gen will be. Its ALWAYS hyped like this.

Either way, knowing this I wanted the latest feature set I could get and basically what could only be called next-gen speed today. So I went with NV SLI. It makes total sense to me. I might not upgrade next gen at all if neither ATI/NV SLI blows mine out of the water.
And I'm sitting tight with the D3D standard until longhorn.. how nice huh.

The second major flaw I see with your current stance is how you condone rushing out and buying the next ATI gen before waiting for the competing solutions from NV. I totally disagree with that.
How ignorant and telling is that. Thats just being a damn fool.
March 24, 2005 2:32:16 AM

well, i dont give my total seal of approval on GF6 SM3 is a checkbox feature by any means. we dont have a single game built from ground up for SM3 that I know of.
chaos theory might be.. i'm not sure if its tacked on or if its truley designed for/to take advantage of SM3.

in this respect, you could call it a checkbox feature as there arent many games with support.. but NV has done an excellent job of getting DX9C games started so that when ATI rolls in a day late with the R520 they will look like they came "just in time" to reap the benefits of NVs hard work with developers.

Its typical, and taking advantage of their work.. but its fine, as I believe the superior company will shine through in the end. And lack of motivation will come through on ATI's end, and bite them in the arse ultimately.

As far as GF6 sm3 being too slow, useless ect.. I dont think thats even possible after reading the papers on SM3.. it mainly increases performance for "free" when coded properly and displacement mapping increases IQ (though this might be slow on GF6, I dont think any of us really know yet).

basically, from the way DX9C works, if NV's implementation sucks.. so will ATI's.. its DX9C and as stated, mainly a performance addition.

Its not going to be like NV30 DX9 performance.. if thats what you guys are hoping for.
March 24, 2005 2:59:11 AM

Quote:
but NV has done an excellent job of getting DX9C games started so that when ATI rolls in a day late with the R520 they will look like they came "just in time" to reap the benefits of NVs hard work with developers.

This is exactly the type of propeganda FUD your famous for. It's completely a perspective based on the assumption that your chosen company is good and other company is evil.

You could apply the exact same logic in the opposite direction with DirectX 9, and say that Nvidia capitalized on Ati's "hard work with developers" by releasing 6xxx parts "a day late" that could actually run Dx9 code "just in time" for Doom3 and Half Life 2.

Propeganda and spinning the story doesn't change the fact that both are simply companies that react to their competitors, or die. Capitalism. Nobody's the good guy, and nobody's the bad guy.

That's how you tell the fanboys from everyone else. You guys always make your favorite company out to be the knight in shining armor, and the opposing company out to be the evil archnemesis, lazy and trying to sham the world.

It's Laughable. While the rest of us are comparing hardware, you're trying to spin a fairy tale to convince people of the evil hardware developers trying to shylock your money away.

________________
<b>Radeon <font color=red>9700 PRO</b></font color=red> <i>(o/c 332/345)</i>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>3200+</b></font color=red> <i>(Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)</i>
<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>5,354</b>
March 24, 2005 4:19:48 AM

Amazing.. you pop in to reply to my message to Ape and twist it into something that it isnt.. but you wont answer where I completely laid the smack down on you out in your X800XL approval and how incorrect it is.

Pick and choose your battles wisely, I guess thats the motto you follow. Someone gets your number on one thing which you have no reply becuase its just damn true.. and you look elsewhere to get your sucker punches in.
So thats the kind of man you are.

BTW, its not FUD.. its the truth.. NV has blown millions pushing SM3/DX9C with developers.. ATI is going to benefit as well.. as dumb fanboys like yourself will point and scream- "SEE!!!! <b>NOW</b> IS THE TIME FOR SM3!!! LOOK AT ALL THE GAMES NV PUSHED DEVS TO PUT OUT!"
A convienent timing issue.. not one I care about.. as stated, laziness and not being a leader comes through in the end.
March 24, 2005 4:23:51 AM

Repost because you must have missed it the first time
Quote:
why do ppl edit posts and make them so much longer after i read them in the email and already know my response?
i hate that.

anyway, i said i bet i buy NEW ATI hardware before you do.. if ATI's next card is the bee's knees.. I'll be using it.
I think the odds are stacked against it for sure, but no matter who is faster..

whoever gives me DX9C or WGF2.0 is fine for me as far as features. I for one am not too happy with the R520 being WGF1.. I want 2 as its going to be the real standard it seems. But if thats as far as they can go this gen, thats fine.. but if they can meet WGF1 standards when WGF isnt formally released.. why not WGF2.

Anyway, I'm getting that beautiful 19x12 24" LCD to add to this 20".. so whoever is faster on my DFI NF4 gets the cash and my support.
As far as your he said, she said debate, I'm merely saying its wonderful how you find it 100% the only choice to consider (X800XL) when someone needs an upgrade, when not considering the 6800GT is just pure stupidity. You put it in bold like its some kind of official statement, but x800xl is far from some godly item as you pretend.

Its good yes, but aweful shitty ATI FINALLY got something out worth buying.. and now their stuff is right around the corner that is SM3 and beyond.

It makes no sense for someone with a PCIE rig (more than likely a NF4), to buy a SM2/DX9B card right now as ATI is about to replace that and make the whole gaming card market (NV/ATI) DX9C/SM3 or above.
So for the guy who obviously does not upgrade every year (if they waited this long, they just arent that type.. sorry) a GF6 would be a much better choice.. or AT LEAST should be very strongly considered.
Toss in the fact that current ATI cards have no SLI capability, the NF3/4 is optimized for GeforceFX (and GF6- no apology I dont have the article specifically testing and confirming the same for GF6/NF4..), their better history of supporting older product and better more full-featured drivers all around.. and to me its more than just competitive.

And FAR from being some X800XL throwdown match where all these things considered, is still the hands down winner.
But strangely enough.. in your eyes it is.. and many others around here.. what a QUEER situation this is!

It makes no sense to me.
I for one would consider BOTH lines... ESPECIALLY this gen! You can't right off the plethora of NV advantages just because ATI resorted to their old tactic of undercutting price. I'm not saying its a bad card, or choice. I'm saying you are being damn ignorant placing that card as the "hands down winner".
You wouldnt believe it, but I long considered the X850XT PE over SLI. Esp since I am a CSS connoisseur.

But overall, I found SLI does beat the X850.. it was not readily available at the time (but I was willing to wait unlike yourself, "the unbiased one"... more on that in a minute). I had NO idea if the next gen is going to be a major leap or a baby step (even tho you are hoping and praying R520 is actually worth a damn).. but the truth is NONE OF US HAVE A DAMN CLUE how fast the next gen will be. Its ALWAYS hyped like this.

Either way, knowing this I wanted the latest feature set I could get and basically what could only be called next-gen speed today. So I went with NV SLI. It makes total sense to me. I might not upgrade next gen at all if neither ATI/NV SLI blows mine out of the water.
And I'm sitting tight with the D3D standard until longhorn.. how nice huh.

The second major flaw I see with your current stance is how you condone rushing out and buying the next ATI gen before waiting for the competing solutions from NV. I totally disagree with that.
How ignorant and telling is that. Thats just being a damn fool.

You have the guts to call me out in your post prior to this one.. but when I come back guns blazing to expose your hypocrisy and drying up logic.. you hide.
Talk all you want, but your blanket, 100% recommendation for the X800XL is utter stupidity.
But as I detailed all the other factors you ignore in my above reply.. its just not that simple.

Its your desire for it to be so that shows how biased you are, whenever you get an ATI part that is HALFWAY decent, then you pimp it to all hell with this <b>hands down, no questions asked recommendation</b> bullshit you try to pull.

edit to add- I'm not going respond to anything further in this thread, if you won't answer to the response your rock throwing begat.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by GAME on 03/24/05 00:33 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
!