6600GT vs 6800 AGP

[Barley_Mcflexo]

MY rig:

NF7-S
2500+ Barton
2x512 Samsung PC-2700
Maxtor 7200RPM 80GB
GeForce FX 5200 Ultra

I want to upgrade my video card to use on newer games for about a year or so before all the new standards become mainstream (PCI-e, SATAII, Dual Core 64 Bit CPU, etc.), at which time I will build a new rig.

I'll be gaming at 1280x1024 (not sure about AF and AA, although I think it would be nice if I could not notice the drop in framerate). My two choices for AGP are a 6600GT for $200, or a vanilla 6800 for $250.

Here's my question: is the 6800 worth the extra $50? I know you can unlock the 4 extra pipes and 1 vertex shader using riva tuner. However, do you think the rest of my rig would be a bottleneck for the unlocked 6800? I don't really want to pay for extra performance I can't use or don't need since I'll be building a dedicated gaming rig next year. And please do not suggest anything more expensive than these two cards (although if I could ever find a X800XL for AGP at $300 I'd get it in a flash!).

Thanks in advance for your advice.

 

[Rugger]

If you can unlock the pipes and get it to GT performance, then the 6800GT should be worth it. Is the Barton OC'd? Does your PSU have a power plug for a vid card? What mfr/wattage PSU do you have right now?

As far as the upgrade "PCI-e, SATAII, Dual Core 64 Bit CPU, etc." upgrade. HDDs can't take advantage of SATA speed - much less SATA II - at this point. AGP cards remains as fast as PCIe at this point, but you are right that it is the standard of the future. Vid cards mfrs are still producing their new cards in AGP, too. Dual-core CPUs - until software can take advantage of the dual cores, I think you may be spending a lot for little/no performance gain. JMHO.

__________________________________________________
<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>

 

[Barley_Mcflexo]

I knew I missed something! My PSU is an Antec TruePower 430W. I believe this is plenty and I'm not aware of any extra connector I need for an AGP video card, save for possibly an extra 4 pin molex, of which I have plenty. I do not overclock nor do I expect to. I'm more interested in stability and longevity. And I agree with your analysis of the new upcoming standards. Maybe it will be 2 years before I upgrade. The key to my next build is future-proofing and upgradeability. I think it would be foolish to build a new AGP/Socket A platform from scratch right now, for instance (unless you just want to surf the net or use Word, in which case you should just buy a cheap Dell, IMHO). The preceeding was just me on my little soapbox. Thanks for your reply, Rugger!

 

[pauldh]

Seriously, OC that 2500+ to a 3200+ (11*200=2.2GHz) and add some free performance. You'll need to set your memory to run slower than the fsb though as you have PC2700. But no biggy. A 2.2GHz AXP is plenty CPU for either of those cards, and even a 6800GT.


The 6800 will do better at 1280x1024 with AA on. Without AA the 6600GT will do pretty good. Honestly, I'd expect both of those cards to become 1024x768 cards pretty soon though. The 16-pipe 6800GT would be a better future 1280x1024 card.


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[Barley_Mcflexo]

Hi Pauldh,

Thanks for your post! Normally I would agree with you on the 6800GT, but since I am planning on using this card for only a year or two on an older platform, I cannot justify spending $350+ on a new card. When I build my new rig I will definitely go all out!

As far as OC'ing, my only experience with that was on a very old 850MHz Thunderbird (w/ Asus A7V socket A mobo), which I only managed to get up to 900MHz (although I thought it was really cool to be able to do that with a very sharp number 2 pencil!). I won't waste your time asking how to OC my Barton and clock down my memory (I'll scan the posts and other websites), but maybe I'll give it a try.

 

[Rugger]

With RIvatuner you should be able to get the full 16 pipes open and get GT performance from that 6800. That performance should last for a couple of years.
11*200=2.2Ghz: 11 is the multiplier and 200(Mhz) is the FSB (Front Side Bus). A couple of easy settings to give you a 2.2Ghz machine. Your mobo/CPU should have no problem with those settings. Stress the system and monitor temps/stability. If stable and not too hot, then you're good to go.

__________________________________________________
<font color=red>You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!</font color=red>

 

[Xeon]

Seriously, OC that 2500+ to a 3200+ (11*200=2.2GHz) and add some free performance.

Seriously why does it matter to you if this fellow has or hasn’t OC'd perhaps he is happy with the performance he is getting perhaps he doesn’t have a clue how to OC.

Just really worry about your own equipment everyone is soo worried about everyone else’s and for what so they can tell some of their internet buddies that they over clock, wow!

Drives me frikken nuts to see everyone telling everyone else what to do with their hardware even though they didn’t even ask for such input, opinion where the opinion isn’t asked for makes me angry.

-Jeremy Dach

 

[pauldh]

First up, who asked you? Secondly, I wrote that before seeing he had posted he wastn't interested in overclocking. (3 minutes apart) Third, he was asking if his CPU was powerful enough, so it is relevent. <i>"However, do you think the rest of my rig would be a bottleneck for the unlocked 6800?"</i> Fourth, his mobo and Cpu are great overclockers - NF7-S and an XP2500+, if that doesn't scream OC me to you then you are on the wrong forums. Try Dell, Compaq, or Polly Pockets. And last, glad you wouldn't tell someone how to easily get more free performance out of their rig when they are asking for help. I see his CPU as a none issue because if/when he needs more speed it's a given that combo will OC. Ugh, so glad you posted all that useful info dude. Oh yeah, and who asked you anyway?



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[pauldh]

Agreed. NF7-S/ AXP2500+. Is my CPU to weak? And he wants Overclocking to not be recommended????? :tongue:

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[pauldh]

Yeah, I did start writing that post to you before you had posted about not being interested in overclocking. Anyway, just to put your mind at ease a little, you have an excellent Mobo for overclocking, and most XP2500+'s easily do XP3200+ speeds (2.2GHz) with a minimum voltage boost. And there is no pencil trick needed, overclocking a barton on an NF7-S is simple. Anyway, all the cards mentioned are good choices. A 6600GT for under $200 will game nicely. But don't be scared off that your system can't do a 6800GT justice as that rig of your's isn't too shabby and will OC if/when you get CPU limited. If your cpu is an older one, it may even be an unlocked Barton 2500+ giving you more overclocking options to play with. You obviously don't have to OC, but you have good components for it if you want to try it.




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[Xeon]

Well Paul no one did, but it doesn’t seem to stop the rest of you guys from giving your 2 cents unless I missed some golden rule that only Apes best buddies can post anything regarding a opinion here, be sure to correct me if I am wrong.

Ok you missed the over clocking comment [-peep-] happens man it doesn’t change the fact that you really have no place to say hey buddy do this cause you have to or else. It is common sense you don’t go out and tell your wife instead of cooking ham on Mondays she must and should have a BBQ. But that might not work for you I don’t know and frankly don’t care.

As per the CPU being powerful enough I still don’t see where over clocking has to be done, why not tell him no it wont or yes it will. I don’t understand why everyone has to over clock their components I have seen countless accidents especially with newer users it just doesn’t sound like good advice anymore really it not good advice for someone new.

As for his hardware screaming at you to over clock then perhaps you should follow its advice and since your the only one that can hear these magical screams it might justified to keep them to yourself.

As per the wrong forum comment I do believe you are incorrect you are in the wrong forum as there is specifically a over clocking of GPU’s and CPU’s.

He didn’t ask me for help and no where did I see a help I want to over clock. That is something I don’t go out and recommend they must be comfortable and familiar with hardware to not damage something.

Over clocking might be good for you but it is certainly not good for everyone, there are many risks associated with it and no one here seems to even care there is any. These guys come in here and see over clock over clock go out start to tinker and damage something what good was the advice.

Finally I am glad you are glad I posted some useful information btw sarcasm isn’t your strong point, you seem much better at witty remarks and puns than sarcasm, but like I said no one asked for my opinion and that’s ok because Ill give it when I choose to oh I do love democracy.

But really Paul calm the fock down I don't know why your so upset its' a opinion its the internet why even care.

-Jeremy Dach

 

[pauldh]

Ok you missed the over clocking comment [-peep-] happens man it doesn’t change the fact that you really have no place to say hey buddy do this cause you have to or else.

No actually, I did not miss it, as when I clicked reply and started to write about OC it..., he had not even posted yet; ie there was nothing to miss. Anyway, I guess I can see a little what you were thinking if you thought that he stated no interest in overclocking and I responded "seriously overclock...". Anyway, not the order it happened in though.

But really Paul calm the fock down I don't know why your so upset its' a opinion its the internet why even care.

Ah, correct me if I'm wrong, but who jumped on who? Wasn't it you who first responded to me? Oddly, you didn't follow your own advice as you yourself said <i>"Drives me frikken nuts to see everyone telling everyone else what to do with their hardware even though they didn’t even ask for such input, opinion where the opinion isn’t asked for makes me angry."</i> Get where I was going with "who asked you"? Basically it makes you angry when opinions are given when not asked for and that is exactly what you were doing. Anyway, I found it amusing and couldn't resist.

OK, I'll try and explain this to you. Let me lay out the order it happened and see if it makes sense to you or just still makes you friggy angry enough to bite my head off. 1-He came asking for help about video cards and was concerned his system/cpu might bottleneck a GF6800.(so you're wrong, he was asking for help ) 2-Someone else mentioned OC'in the cpu. 3- I saw both of those comments and also his system specs and said to myself "wow, perfect OC machine; no way does he have to worry about CPU bottlenecking a 6800". Anyway, I do have two of those exact mobos, and 4 XP2500+'s all on NF2's and all overclocked succesfully from 2.2GHz to 2.6Ghz with no issues. In my circle of friends who OC, I have not seen one AXP damaged. I don't see it as risky. But I do agree it is not for everyone. I do think a gamer who is concerned his system is too slow, and has his specs, should OC before buying new as a 2.2GHz AXP/NF2 is still a very capable gamer and the money is better put into a video card.


Anyway, hope you try and see the logical order there. For what it's worth, it is very unlike me to jump on someone for a post, but I am tired and was in no mood to get jumped on by someone who claims to hate opinions given when not asked for. You could have just said I disagree, or Overclocking isn't for everyone. But no, it drove your friggin nuts and made you angry. But anyway, I've vented and I am over it. Still think he has the right to know how good an OC machine he has and that if he wants to he could get a good free performance boost. fact that I own the mobo/cpu made me a bit more gung ho to give him the good news that CPU isn't an issue for him. EDIT: Obviously, his issue is replacing that FX5200 so he can get gaming.


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<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Pauldh on 03/20/05 09:08 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Barley_Mcflexo]

Hey guys,

I really didn't mean to start a flame war here . Let me just say that I appreciate the tips on overclocking. I did not know I had such an overclockable system and although I will unlikely go through with it, it is still good to know. Also, I appreciate other posters looking out for the 'small guy' and I'm sure it was started with good intentions.

Just so you know, I have decided to get a vanilla 6800. I will unlock the pipes and shader. If I decide I need to overclock in the future, I will definitely make a post on the overclocking board to make sure I do it right.

Thanks again, everyone.

Barley

 

[Xeon]

No actually, I did not miss it, as when I clicked reply and started to write about OC it..., he had not even posted yet; ie there was nothing to miss. Anyway, I guess I can see a little what you were thinking if you thought that he stated no interest in overclocking and I responded "seriously overclock...". Anyway, not the order it happened in though.

That’s what I said big deal yada yada I also included my opinion on the topic since you responded aggressively.

Ah, correct me if I'm wrong, but who jumped on who? Wasn't it you who first responded to me? Oddly, you didn't follow your own advice as you yourself said "Drives me frikken nuts to see everyone telling everyone else what to do with their hardware even though they didn’t even ask for such input, opinion where the opinion isn’t asked for makes me angry." Get where I was going with "who asked you"? Basically it makes you angry when opinions are given when not asked for and that is exactly what you were doing. Anyway, I found it amusing and couldn't resist.

Funny that’s not the way I see it at all. I clearly stated when someone tells someone else what to do with their hardware and or its configuration when the question wasn't raised to begin with. In subsequence I responded with a opinion based on your comments which in tern shows no acts of hypocrite(ness)*not sure if that can be used :S* what so ever. Again to make this clear to you I stated hardware.

1-He came asking for help about video cards and was concerned his system/cpu might bottleneck a GF6800.(so you're wrong, he was asking for help

Hmm perhaps my glasses are the incorrect prescription but it appears that there is no over clocking hinting, suggesting, or hidden undertone. With that in mind a response of yes or no would have been correct since pushing a new member into over clocking has shown in the past to be unsavory. It's been stated that we are here to help pushing a beginner level computer user into tinkering with their hardware is a incorrect choice, having that said I am just not comfortable putting someone into that type of situation and its unfortunate we don’t see eye to eye on it.

2-Someone else mentioned OC'in the cpu. 3- I saw both of those comments and also his system specs and said to myself "wow, perfect OC machine; no way does he have to worry about CPU bottlenecking a 6800".

Honestly he will see at least 70-80% of his potential performance with the card the machine is ideal it’s not obsolete nor painfully slow.

Anyway, I do have two of those exact mobos, and 4 XP2500+'s all on NF2's and all overclocked succesfully from 2.2GHz to 2.6Ghz with no issues.

There were no comments made to your over clocking skills.

Anyway, hope you try and see the logical order there. For what it's worth, it is very unlike me to jump on someone for a post, but I am tired and was in no mood to get jumped on by someone who claims to hate opinions given when not asked for. You could have just said I disagree, or Overclocking isn't for everyone. But no, it drove your friggin nuts and made you angry. But anyway, I've vented and I am over it. Still think he has the right to know how good an OC machine he has and that if he wants to he could get a good free performance boost. fact that I own the mobo/cpu made me a bit more gung ho to give him the good news that CPU isn't an issue for him. EDIT: Obviously, his issue is replacing that FX5200 so he can get gaming.

Then it is settled our dispute is over, best wishes.

-Jeremy Dach

 

[pauldh]

Well, I am almost ready for it to be over. But you still have a very poor understanding of overclocking and this situation. You say it's not for noobs, yet is this guy a noob? He is talking about buying a 6800 and unlocking the pipes and shaders. So that is OK, but it's a crime to mention overclocking? Sheesh, get real. Face it, for whatever reason, you hate overclcoking and reacted harshly. Whatever, that's your problem. You added absolutely nothing to this topic except throwing a wusy fit that overclocking a cpu was mentioned. So it's a graphics card forum, tinker with your graphics cards, but leave the cpu alone. ROFLOL. He has a betterr chance of getting XP3200+ speeds out of his current hardware than he does in unlocking the 4 pipes on a card he has not even bought yet. Yet again, you care not that he is going to buy a 6800 in hopes to unlock pipes, but freak out at the suggesting that he could OC his current CPU. Ugh. OK, Now we are done.


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[RX8]

ROFL, carm down guys.

<font color=purple> MY FINGER IS ON THE BUTTON! </font color=purple>

 

[pauldh]

Oh don't even worry about it. You didn't start anything. Xeon's panties were in a knot so he took it out on me. And I was not in the mood to be subject to his overclocking phobia. But don't worry about it, it will blow over; No biggy. Most importantly, forget our silly rantings and try and pick out the little bit of useful hardware information as that's what it's about.

Anyway, the 6800 is a fine card. Coming from an FX5200, you should be amazed. Even if the pipes don't succesfully unlock, you are buying the more powerful card compared to the 6600GT. Too bad the 6800GT was out of price range, as that really is a far better 1280x1024 eye candy card, but they are $335+. 6600GT's can be found for around $180 and are excellent cards for that price point. Their weaknesses are in high resolution with AA on. Anyway, all three are good choices depending on pricing. Good luck on the 6800 unlock, I hope it works for you. If you feel confident enough to buy a card and try that, OC'in your NF7-S will be a breeze. I'd be happy to help, or better yet just post in the cpu or cpu OC forum and there will be plenty of people who can help OC your setup. You have one of the very best Socket A mobos for overclocking, and the XP2500+ is long known as a cheap XP3200+ capable cpu.

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[Guest]

You added absolutely nothing to this topic except throwing a wusy fit that overclocking a cpu was mentioned.

Why'd you have to drag wusy into this? Lol

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[pauldh]

I actually thought about him when i said it, LOL. Oh well, maybe we can pin the blame for this little mess on him and his volt mods/bios flashes/and overclocks. :tongue:


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[Guest]

LMAO!! Now that's a bat signal for wusy if I ever saw one :tongue:

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[Xeon]

So that is OK, but it's a crime to mention overclocking?

Did I say it was a crime? No I did not I simply stated the young fellow did not wish to over clock you missed that posting, you want me to say sorry for jumping on you sure I am sorry.

But I still don’t like recommending over clocking to someone that appears new to computers. Whether or not he even has a clue about unlocking the pipes isn’t the point, I just don’t recommend it, I can’t gauge a mans experience from a post I assume you can’t either.

Face it, for whatever reason, you hate overclcoking and reacted harshly.

Well I honestly don’t know where you got that from but I must say what other reason would I have bought a 700 dollar water cooling kit and 500 dollar DDR500 is beyond me, I must like colors.

So it's a graphics card forum, tinker with your graphics cards, but leave the cpu alone. ROFLOL

Actually I have seen others bite the heads off of others over that very thing, I only stated this isn’t a over clocking forum since you clearly stated;

if that doesn't scream OC me to you then you are on the wrong forums

I simply responded based on the comment.

You added absolutely nothing to this topic except throwing a wusy fit that overclocking a cpu was mentioned

The term wusy fit seems to be fitting you just as well Paul.

Yet again, you care not that he is going to buy a 6800 in hopes to unlock pipes, but freak out at the suggesting that he could OC his current CPU.

Again assumption and presumption get you no where, no where did I state that I was uncaring that this fellow was planning to unlock some pipes, in fact once the argument had settled and the young man was still interested I would have commented on it but we are still here.

And I was not in the mood to be subject to his overclocking phobia.

HA! Now there is some wittiness I like.

-Jeremy Dach

 

[pauldh]

in fact once the argument had settled and the young man was still interested I would have commented on it but we are still here.

Alright, we could go on forever here. I'd sure like another shot at you :lol: , but this comment of yours above really gets to the point. Our arguing only sidetracked the important issue at hand. I too if not argueing with you would have commented about the buying of a card in hopes to unlock pipes. Oh well, I'll end.



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[Xeon]

*tips hat* Charming as always Paul.

-Jeremy Dach