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Efficiency of ATI vs. Nvidia as companies

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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March 27, 2005 11:25:01 PM

I was just curious if any of you had any opinions on efficiency, concerning Nvidia and ATI from a business perspective. As I understnad Nvidia is an American company, and ATI is a Canadian company. In that regard I would expect that Nvidia's costs in development are much greater than that of ATI.

Does anyone have the facts? I'm curious about this aspect of graphic cards.
March 27, 2005 11:49:07 PM

The efficiency of the business in the development, manurfacturing, and sales of their products. If one company has considerably higher costs it is likely it either simply makes less profit, or operates more efficiently. There are a lot of components to this question, but I was just curious if anyone had knowledge in this area. What I'm basically looking for is a comparison of ATI and Nvidia not completely centered on their products, but everything else involved.

thanks, I hope that clarifies.
a b U Graphics card
March 28, 2005 2:32:56 AM

Both stocks are publically traded in the U.S. That means that you can find out how many chips they sold last quarter and their net profits. From there you could figure out their profit per chip.

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March 28, 2005 2:58:07 AM

That's true, but it isn't detailed enough, and first hand information is always more interesting. If anyone has any information regarding the operation of these two companies I'd be interested in hearing about it at length.


But just to add information here's some of what I found. It doesn't get specific enough but it should have value some value.
nvidia ATI Creative Intel
NVDA ATYT CREAF INTC Industry
Market Cap: 4.27B 4.16B 840.60M 144.34B 323.66M
Employ­ees: 2,101 2,700 4,700 85,000 518
Rev. Growth (ttm): -4.50% 44.10% 16.10% 13.50% 22.60%
Revenue (ttm): 2.01B 2.29B 988.78M 34.21B 169.61M
Gross Margin (ttm): 32.31% 34.50% 30.63% 57.72% 40.68%
EBITDA (ttm): 216.19M 273.04M 2.59M 10.31B 5.21M
Oper. Margins (ttm): 5.65% 12.48% -2.30% 29.61% 2.21%
Net Income (ttm): 100.36M 220.65M 80.30M 7.52B 1.47M
EPS (ttm): 0.57 0.857 0.951 1.159 0.06
PE (ttm): 44.09 19.31 10.64 20.00 26.48
PEG (ttm): 0.84 0.75 N/A 1.20 1.44
PS (ttm): 2.12 1.85 0.84 4.26 2.20

ATYT = ATI Technologies Inc
CREAF = Creative Technology Ltd
INTC = Intel Corp
Industry = Semiconductors
March 28, 2005 2:25:01 PM

Interesting info there. I had thought Nvidia was still bigger than Ati.

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March 28, 2005 2:37:33 PM

ATI has been around for donkey years before nvidia, which has always given ati advantage and a strong foot hold in the cheap and nasty market of integerated grafix.

<font color=purple> MY FINGER IS ON THE BUTTON! </font color=purple>
March 28, 2005 3:13:37 PM

And that fact is not hurt by providing pretty darned good graphics boards for the past few years either.

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March 28, 2005 5:57:07 PM

yes that to lol.

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a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
March 28, 2005 6:06:04 PM

Really what it appears that you're looking for, you will have to dissect the prospectus/annual/quaterly reports yourself.

These companies are in many different fields so to find out the efficiencies of their operations, you'd have to look at them individually. ATi's TV operations are very lucrative, and thus would colo(u)r any overall results if you're looking at just the graphics sector. Same with nV's MoBo sales (to a lesser extent ATi's MoBos).

For overall company view, it's pretty much right before you for the basic measures of health/efficiency;

<i>Rev. Growth (ttm): -4.50% 44.10% 16.10% 13.50% 22.60%
Gross Margin (ttm): 32.31% 34.50% 30.63% 57.72% 40.68%
Oper. Margins (ttm): 5.65% 12.48% -2.30% 29.61% 2.21%</i>

Their overal revenue and ebitda shows you whether it's a small player or large (large isn't always good if it's slow to adapt). Market cap shows what the market believes the overall value to be, but doesn't really show anything beyond the imaginary (compare market cap to physical assets, revenue and income and try and figure it out). Just like PE is more of a historical judge of your past investment than a true indicator.

So it depends on what else you're looking for other than that.

BTW, Why didn't you add Matrox to the list you KNOB! They are Numero Uno Primo Supremo! No Soup for You! :tongue:


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
March 28, 2005 6:10:57 PM

Quote:
As I understnad Nvidia is an American company, and ATI is a Canadian company. In that regard I would expect that Nvidia's costs in development are much greater than that of ATI.

And how do you make this giant leap of logic? Guess it's because ATi only pay their employees in Saskatchewan Seal pelts and 24s of Carling Black Label, eh!?!

Both companies have Global and US operations.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
March 28, 2005 10:15:13 PM

Well I think the operating margin says enough about my "giant leap of logic" It's really not as out of this world assumption as you might believe, but of course the whole reason I posted this thread is to gain a factual understanding.

as for operating globally, ATI has 1700 employees in Canada, and 1,000 in other locations for a total of 2700 employees.
Their GPU's are apparently developed in California.

Nvidia employs 2,000 people total, and I have no information on thier distribution. They've built a development center in Bangalore apparently.

As for going through the prospectus etc. I'm sorry, but you're not going to extrapolate as much information from a companies financials as you may think. They're no where near detailed enough; as I've already repeated, and it seems you go on in your own post to repeat again for me.

Thanks for the kindergarden finance lesson though.
March 28, 2005 10:23:21 PM

you dident say d1ckhead buddy.

is buddwiezer canadian beer?

carling black label is british isent it?

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a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
March 29, 2005 7:00:14 AM

Black Label's a beer from the Carling heritage, now owned by <A HREF="http://www.molson.com/brands/molsoncanada/molsonbrands...." target="_new">Molson's</A> it's a beer with a certain artistic cache, so quite appropriate IMO. :cool:


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
March 29, 2005 7:28:37 AM

Quote:
Thanks for the kindergarden finance lesson though.

Hey, no problem seems like it was needed, good practice really. I assumed you were at a higher level of edjumakation, but if <i>kindergarten</i> is it, well then good on you, quite impressive. :tongue:

Quote:
Well I think the operating margin says enough about my "giant leap of logic" It's really not as out of this world assumption as you might believe...

Sure it's a pretty big assumption, and you mention operating margin as being your presumptive validation, yet like I said the picture is far more complex, especially when you have many differing products. What do the margins tell you of Intel's efficiency? Damn they must have more Canadians working for them than ATi! :lol: 

Quote:
I'm sorry, but you're not going to extrapolate as much information from a companies financials as you may think. They're no where near detailed enough; as I've already repeated, and it seems you go on in your own post to repeat again for me.

Oh, I assumed you understood that they (the reports) would be far more detailed than what you posted, yet at the same time be about the most you're going to get since all those companies you listed are in fierce competitive battles with many adversaries.
However, I'm sure you'll find a CFO who'll tell you ALL their secrets. 'Cause heck if they didn't do it initially simply because of the change of accounting practices I'm sure they're bound to open up their books for just a "factual understanding". :wink:

I suggest you start with XGI, I doubt they have any secrets left for anyone to care about. And then the clairvoyants and fortune-tellers can tell you what everyone else is doing beyond what they are reporting. :eek: 


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red> GA to SK :evil: 
March 29, 2005 8:52:48 AM

Blah blah blah is an appropriate response, but it does indeed look like ATI is able to get by paying their employees with beaver skins, and moose snouts.

In any case, I'm always open to hear from anyone that has relevant information.
March 29, 2005 12:35:51 PM

Quote:
As for going through the prospectus etc. I'm sorry, but you're not going to extrapolate as much information from a companies financials as you may think. They're no where near detailed enough; as I've already repeated, and it seems you go on in your own post to repeat again for me.

Thanks for the kindergarden finance lesson though.

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March 29, 2005 2:43:08 PM

Quote:
BTW, Why didn't you add Matrox to the list you KNOB! They are Numero Uno Primo Supremo! No Soup for You!

My miserable life (yes, I have a life, some would say) keeps me away from these boards more than I'd like. Here's to say that I miss your pink ape a$$. Comments like that put a smile on my face :smile: .

Cheers,
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