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Curious-Why not the 6800N over the X800XL?

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  • Graphics
Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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April 1, 2005 5:25:06 PM

Most people seem to be saying the X800 XL is the best price/performance card right now and are recommending this card even to overclockers. However, the 6800N sells for $241 versus $285 for the X800 XL and by all accounts the 6800 is a guarenteed bet to unlock 16 pipes and 6 vertex shaders using riva tuner. In effect, anyone who spends a few minutes with a 6800N can have a much faster card then the X800 XL, equivalent to a 6800 GT. Plus many people seem to be able to overclock the 6800N with the stock fan to 6800U speeds. Worst case senario seems that you may require a $25 extra cooling solution to get the 6800N clocked to close to stock 6800U speeds.

I relaize the 6800GT and U will be faster if they are also OCed compared to the 6800N, but comparing a modded 6800N to a X800 XL that is also OCed to max potential safely and quickly, the 6800 wins hands down and is quite a bit cheaper.

Plus the 6800N OCed can be later used in SLI with another modded 6800N for even further possible future utility. Am I missing something?

More about : curious 6800n x800xl

April 1, 2005 6:55:36 PM

Mostly because solutions can only be judged by ther as-sold abilities. It's hard to recommend something to your average joe if it requires technical expertise to accomplish, besides the fact that there is no guarantee, nor is there hard data, that a card will mod successfully.

Add to this the fact that a modded 6800 doesn't necessarily win hands down on every app... even a 6800 Ultra isn't a "much faster" card than a X800XL. As for the SLI advantage, once again it's usefulness and cost effectiveness is debatable and far from agreed upon. Remember, too, that most 6800's are not SLI capable.

It's the same situation as the 256-bit Radeon 9500's. A decent gamble for those with technical ability and in the know, but still a gamble. And not something to reccomend to everyone.

In the final analysis, for $40 more you can have guaranteed 16-pipes, or you can save $40 on a gamble, a gamble without clear odds as there is no hard data to reference, a gamble that you may lose and end up with a card slightly better than a 6600GT.

Just not worth the $40 to the average buyer who isn't even comfortable with overclocking, but maybe an alternative to the gambling entheusiasts out there. But if they're entheusiasts, they're probably already aware of the possibilities the vanilla 6800 offers...

________________
<b>Geforce <font color=red>6800 Ultra</b></font color=red>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>3200+</b></font color=red> <i>(Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)</i>
<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>9,192</b>
April 1, 2005 8:47:47 PM

cleeve my 6800 128mb pawns you 3dmark03 score big time.

plus its in a shitty xp2600 333fsb.

is ur system a little sick cuz ur ultra should be owning.

<font color=purple> MY FINGER IS ON THE BUTTON! </font color=purple>
April 1, 2005 9:22:09 PM

Yeah seems a little low. Haven't looked into it much, just got the card yesterday.

What do you get in '03, Rx8? And at what clockspeeds?

________________
<b>Geforce <font color=red>6800 Ultra</b></font color=red>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>3200+</b></font color=red> <i>(Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)</i>
<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>9,192</b>
a b U Graphics card
April 1, 2005 9:33:28 PM

Quote:
However, the 6800N sells for $241 versus $285 for the X800 XL and by all accounts the 6800 is a guarenteed bet to unlock 16 pipes and 6 vertex shaders using riva tuner.

Sure go ahead.

Then after you've bought it maybe Cleeve or someone else can explain NV40 (AGP) vs NV41 (PCIe).

Quote:
In effect, anyone who spends a few minutes with a 6800N can have a much faster card then the X800 XL, equivalent to a 6800 GT.

So how is it that much faster than an XL when it and the GT are equivalent? Better be sure you don't have either just DDR or 128mb of memory too or you're gonna end up with still far less.

Quote:
but comparing a modded 6800N to a X800 XL that is also OCed to max potential safely and quickly, the 6800 wins hands down and is quite a bit cheaper.

Right, OK, buy it, PLEASE! I beg you! :evil: 

Quote:
Plus the 6800N OCed can be later used in SLI with another modded 6800N for even further possible future utility.

How is this different than the X800XL and AMR/MVP, which can do unlimited multiple cards? You WON'T be able to use that moded GF6800NU in SLI if you can barely use matched card from the same manufacturer.

Quote:
Am I missing something?

Looks like it. :tongue: (we really need a :rolleyes: smiley)


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new"><font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
April 1, 2005 9:35:25 PM

First of all the 6800nu are not guarenteed to unlock the pipes/shaders. I think they're good cards but if you have the extra cash the X800XL seems too good to pass up.
April 1, 2005 11:21:32 PM

Quote:
Then after you've bought it maybe Cleeve or someone else can explain NV40 (AGP) vs NV41 (PCIe).


Lol. I thought about that after I posted. I knew I could trust you to fill in any gaps I left. :smile:

________________
<b>Geforce <font color=red>6800 Ultra</b></font color=red>
<b>AthlonXP <font color=red>3200+</b></font color=red> <i>(Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)</i>
<b>3dMark03: <font color=red>9,192</b>
a b U Graphics card
April 1, 2005 11:25:14 PM

Cleeve, you're just a fanATIc wannabee like me. Kinney had you pegged.

That 3DMark03 does sound low for an Ultra. My 3dmark is in the sig, but that's OC'ed with the 7184 betas. I'd expect 12K for you as with the 6800U at stock BFG 425/1104, I got 12624 with the official 6693 drivers, (but the A64 was sill @ 2.2GHz).


Anyway, Congrats on the new card. What game are you hitting first? $10 Farcry? When I got the Ultra, I started replaying HL2 at 1280x1024 max 4X/8X, and Farcry at 1280x1024 max 2X/8X. Farcry does dip below 30fps at times, but it's nice to use a little AA.

Download that Splinter Cell Chaos Theory demo and prepare to see some seriously sweet lighting. Be prepared for the framerates though as HDR is on by default.




<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=658042" target="_new">3DMark05</A> <A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=3781954" target="_new">3DMark03</A>
a b U Graphics card
April 1, 2005 11:41:59 PM

Yeah, and I'm evil enough to make him ask you or someone else! :evil: 

You can't imagine the number of threads just at NCIX that say "Dude get the GF6800 PCIe and mod it!" and this is for GF6600GT buyers so it's not just ATI vs nV like this thread seemed. Extra $120CDN for that GF6800 128mb too (which is less of a performer than the 256mb version [haven't seen one of those @ NCIX yet]).

I can't imagine what the overall number is in all the forums/stores out there that expect a 100% mod like these guys are telling them. :eek: 

Heck I've seen jack-astors out there saying the X800PRO ViVo is 100% modable, seriously, it's like there's some people out there discover the R9500 mod because their truely tech savy friend told them about it, and now they think everything is modable, heck some people even thought you could mod your R9500 into a PRO, err...., wait yeah you could, that's 'the Cleeve Mod'! :wink:

I love people asking about moding the R9600P, GF6600GT, X800XL, everything is now modable! How you make an X800XTPE into and X900, AtiTools!?! :lol: 

Anywho, I wanna make the X800XL into the R530, so I'm gonna glue on some extensions, I saw some at London Drugs for like $9.99! :cool:


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new"><font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
April 2, 2005 12:48:58 AM

I was more asking the question as to why rather then trying to make a NVID vs ATI statement as I am not all that up to date on vid cards past the 9700 pro generation.

Yeah, it seems much of my points are invalid now that I see the PCIE version is unlockable. However, most of the feedback I have been reading from new egg buyers as well as other users seem to reflect a near 100% success in unlocking these cards and getting a decent overclock on stock cooling. Can anyone point me to a link or test run where there have been more then 10% failures unlocking the 6800s?

I'm looking to upgrade my own vid card soon and frankly, I don't really care if it's Nvid or ATI as long as I am getting a good price/performance ratio as I tend to keep my system for 1 or 2 generations before upgrading.
a b U Graphics card
April 2, 2005 12:58:34 AM

HeHe, that's an ego boost for me, at least until eden or kinney comes along and flaunts their bungholio.


That's not all your 9600 SE modded to 9600 pro can do is it? You should have gone with the Hot-Rod '68 Camaro SS, oops I mean GF6800 Hot-Mod to 6800UE. It's a foolproof R520 thrasher.

Anyway when everyone knows the X300SE HM modded to R580 is the hottest thing going. According to the INQ :wink: , it Litterally tripples the performance of 4 - GF6800 Ultra's in SLI. Plus it's foolproof. To my knowledge, not one such mod has failed. It's definately the card for everyone to consider right now. :tongue: X800XL is a joke when you could mod a X300SE HM.




<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=658042" target="_new">3DMark05</A> <A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=3781954" target="_new">3DMark03</A>
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Pauldh on 04/01/05 09:14 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
a b U Graphics card
April 2, 2005 1:19:16 AM

Basically, I think the "why" is that X800XL is widely available for even under it's $300 list price, and offers performance out of the box pretty much equal to a GF6800GT. In PCI-e, R430 is a great buy. This doesn't take anything away from the GF6800 and 6800GT AGP cards, which are also great buys.

As far as the AGP mods, it does seem most talks are successful for the GF6800, but I have seen many folks on various forums say they can't overclock with the pipes unlocked. I wouldn't even guess at percentages, but surely it's safe to say the success ratios aren't 100%.

With the 8-pipe GF6800LE, I've seen claims anywhere from failures to unlock any pipes, up to all 16 pipes unlocked.


<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=658042" target="_new">3DMark05</A> <A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=3781954" target="_new">3DMark03</A>
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Pauldh on 04/01/05 09:25 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
a b U Graphics card
April 2, 2005 1:33:49 AM

Ahh yes I thought you'd get a kick out of seeing what 4x the pipes can do (BTW my core is still faster than yours! :tongue: ).

Forget nV and Ati the next thing to come out is the XGI Im-POS-I-Ability Pixel/Vertex engine, and it's gonna kick A$$!

Taking a queue from Futuristic scientist Proffesor Herbert Farnsworth, the I-P-I-A (pronnounce eye'pEE'eye'aaahhhh!) engine uses incredible amounts of energy and heat to not increase the frame rates, but to slow down the Universe around the card to achieve framerates similar to a PCX5300 by tricking the mind into seeing the glacial rendering as yellow, err... mellow fluid motion. All artifacts are removed from the process as well because the resultant gamma particles that stream off the quad core PCB penetrate the cornea and cause a natural stary effect that blends well with what other would call 'tearing'. The only tearing the viewer will likely experience is that of the optic nerve from the retina as it tries vainly to escape into the recesses of the user's skull. This Card is on Bad Mutha, and requires two 7 pin connectors on their own power grids, not on their own PSU, but their own power grids! The level of power and ionic wake consumed, produced and transformed by this card require that by law it not be sold to any two people living within the same postal code.

As such, there are no more mods possible for this card as the Universe just would be able to handle the strain.

That's why we at MaximumFeces give it the Kick and Exploding A$$ award with a score of 11! :lol: 


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new"><font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
!