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Seriously complicated graphics compatability issue

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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May 3, 2005 4:04:42 AM

Here is my plight; please read through carefully, as I have gone through a great many steps, and cross-checks to eliminate any possibilities I, or the technicians in various companies have come up with.

I am running windows xp pro sp2
1st MB - Intel D865PERL
2nd MB - ASUS P4P800E
2048 mg DDR400 (3200mhz)
3.0 ghz p4 1mb cache 800fsb
120 gig /200 gig wd hds

Originally I was running a PNY Nivida 5900 8XAGP video card. This was with the Intel MB listed above. I purchased a BFG 6800 ultra 8x 256mb whoopdee $400 video card. I swap the cards out and the bios screens load, you hear the system beep prior to windows loading (function of that particular mb), and no Windows screen ever loads.

I flash the bios with latest updates. I reinstall the MB drivers (2003 was still current). I look into it further, and call BFG. The card calls for two power connections that are on INDEPENDANT originating cables from the PSU. Y-s from the same are not acceptable, with a minimum of 480 watt psu. I had a cheaper ultra 500 that the case came with.

I was building a new system for my buddy at the time and he had bought a 6600 GT for it. I swapped it out for my 6800, and it worked fine.

Its not the Card.

I upgrade my PSU to an ultra 500 watt modular X-connect $90 whooppee with better voltage and 6 independant plugs besides the p4 and atx. I dedicated two independant plugs for the card and try again.

Its not the PSU.


Even though I had uninstalled all drivers as instructed (and it worked fine in my friend's machine without uninstalling them), I want to make sure so I unplug both my hds and boot from a windows CD and a blank drive using the 6800 ultra card and once again it boots to the bios screens and never initializes for the windows load.

Its not anything on the HD.


Ok, the card works, and the PSU is identical to the one in my friend's. I've eliminated a driver issue. I try INTEL for 3 days. They decide its an "incompatability issue with the MB". No [-peep-]. I order the above ASUS motherboard, which is identical to my friend's but his was the AMD version. Its the "AI" series. whoopdee.

I tear it apart and boot the thing back up with the 5900, and make sure the MB is all set. I swap to the 6800 - same problem! I visit ASUS' site, flash the latest bios and check for drivers. I uninstall all video drivers again. At one point I evne installed the new card's nivida drivers before rebooting with it. Nothing works.

Its not the MB.

The card works, changing Motherboards doesn't. Its not the power supply, cause the exact psu worked in another machine. I have played with ehte bios settings with both boards, and all the card emphasizes is making sure its set (and most bios are set to these by default) assign irq to vga, no bios shadowing, etc etc. the usual.

Please can somebody shed some light. I'm out a $400 card that I can't return because I mailed the rebate in too soon. I have spent another $250 on a new psu and mb.

Thanks
May 3, 2005 4:58:54 AM

I don't suppose anywhere along the line of BIOS tinkering you managed to up the AGP appature to 256+ mb? Not exactly sure if that's it but you could give it a shot.

||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Barton 2500+ (stock)
Leadtek K7NCR18-D nforce2
2x256mb Geil pc-3200
Audigy Platinum
WD 80gb SE
BFG GeForce 6800GT OC
May 3, 2005 5:06:46 AM

I have tried it with both 256 and 128 friend - thanks tho
Related resources
a b U Graphics card
May 3, 2005 10:00:06 PM

Try using different power connectors or your Buddy's power supply.
Most of the cheaper made power supplys rate them at their maximum output.But will only do this for a short period of time. A few milliseconds. When they are actually only capable of 300 or 350 Watts sustained.
You did not specify a brand name so I guessing it is a generic or off brand.

I found your X connect power supply and it appears to be one of those over-rated power supplys in a pretty case.
The site gives the MAXIMUM output of 500 watts. NOT 500 watts with a maximum output of 600 or more such as a Fortron,Sparke or the TruePower series from Antec.

I aint signing nothing!!!<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Rick_Criswell on 05/03/05 06:14 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 3, 2005 11:57:05 PM

The machine I built for my friend has the EXACT same X-connect power supply that I am now using, which is why I eliminated that as a possibility.

I will now post a reply to a suggestion I was given on Overclockers.com, and the email from BFG tech support:

Thanks again for the continues suggestions. To address the last few posts:

I build and repair machines for a 2nd income. You are totally correct: Start from the MB, memory, cpu, and video on a foam board and work you way forward to isolate unknown problems. Unfortunatey, this will not help me because as I mentioned the system already boots to the bios screen and post fine. It will not initialize after the post and bios to load windows (when the IRQ is queried yes).

The last suggestion was along my own thought process. Both the Intel and the ASUS boards are based on the 865 intel northbridge, with different south bridges. The newest Intel standard is the 875, but many tweaked 865 chipsets run faster in benchmarks.

If there is a problem with the chipset's compatability and the card - that could be it. I will now post the reply I got from BFG's technical support today:

"Thank you for your request. There are differences between the graphics cards that will certainly illuminate any short-comings, issues or defects with the motherboards. The 5900 is a card with 8 pixel pipelines to the processor. The 6800 ultra has double that amount at 16. It's possible that the card is working just fine with your friends computer as his motherboard has no problems processing the amount of graphics data sent to the processor. The power supplies you have are likely not the issue.

I would suggest the following for BOTH motherboards/setups you have/had:
Update the motherboard BIOS to the latest available
Set the BIOS for "Load BIOS defaults", save and exit.
Use no soft-mod programs in Windows at all.

If all three of these have been done, I would strongly suggest calling ASUS for an RMA for the first motherboard, and a recommendation on what to do with the second."

BFG seems to think its the motherboard as well. I will two things tonight: One, the 6800 takes up two slots (and AGP And a PCI), and is very deep with its slot tab. It almost seems to sit a little high off the MB, but if it wasnt seated properly it shouldnt boot at all, or give me a system warning beep. I will try removing the board mounts and booting from it one last time, using the default bios settings again.

I have set it to 256 and 128 just to try. The assign IRQ to vga is on, and there are a ton of IRQ resources free. The card specs say IRQ 11 is best, and ive tried switching the bios from Auto to manual.

I tried previously to boot from a windows install CD and a blank HD just to remove any possible interference from something on the OS drive already, and it wont even boot to the beginning of the install screen after the bios and post again. You cannot boot to safe mode because this mode requires the same type of IRQ request/initialization of the video card as the Windows boot screen (I tried trust me).

Maybe the Intel 865 chipsets don't work with the 6800 series, but I cannot believe I would be the first to find this out since they have been out for some time now. GRRR. Will follow up later.
May 4, 2005 12:49:42 AM

Alright, if you have read my first detailed post, the two lenghty suggestions, and the post just above this one, you will be up to speed. If you haven't, please do so before taking random shots in the dark.

I tried what BFG suggested, and the presiouv posters. Even with nothing but the bare essentials and the board running on a foam sheet and a box i won't work. Its not the card's seating in the case.

I tried unplugging every extra peripheral again, and loaded the default bios settings even tho I updated the bios yesterday, and fixed the aperature size, nothing.

Its either an incompatability with all 865 Intel chipsets and the 6800 series, or its still the power supply because as one poster at TomsHardware.com mentioned "The X-connect is not a true 500 watt continuous supply such as the Antec Truepower series"

I cannot imagine the AMD 3400 system that ran this card with the IDENTICAL PSU was running THAT much less power than this so it worked on that machine and not this one.

My 1st guess now is its the god damn chipset.

RMAing the board and ordering a 3RD!!!!

Will update later.
a b U Graphics card
May 4, 2005 1:52:57 AM

It cant be the chipset, mine runs just fine with the card. I have:
p4p800
2.6@3.25
512mb Crucial 2/2/2/5/8
WD400ab & WD400jb
BFG 6800 OC 420/940 Unlocked 16x1 6vs
This is my socond 6800 on an 865 chipset.
OK look at it this way . You tried it in 2 known GOOD motherboards. That will boot with less power hungry cards installed. You tried your card in a different machine and it works.His AMD processor draws a lot less power than your P4. His power supply might be a little better than yours(luck of the draw) and boot with your card installed.
The choice is yours but my bet would be the power supply.

I aint signing nothing!!!
May 4, 2005 11:11:09 PM

Thank you very much for that piece of info. I was trying to find someone else with an 865 chipset and that card.

I have a new psu on the way (Antec Truepower 500 watt modular) AND a new MB (ABIT using the 875 series). They should arrive Friday.

I am leaning towards the PSU voltage after further thoughts and partially due to your post friend. I will try the PSU first, then the MB. I will surely let you guys know if either works as this is a curiously pain in the booty one and maybe others can learn from it.

Thanks again for the suggestions.
May 6, 2005 7:28:47 PM

Gotta a good felling its way your PSU not good enough. Those 6800 ultras are bit a power hog and only want the finest of juice.

<i><font color=red>Only an overclocker can make a computer into a convectional oven.</i></font color=red>
May 7, 2005 12:53:25 AM

New PSU (#3) came today (Antec Smartpower 500).

Still doesn't work with the card. Will be trying that 3rd MB tomorrow, and if that doesn't work, card is getting the RMA next regardless.

To be continued.....
a b U Graphics card
May 7, 2005 1:32:43 AM

You bought another cheap power supply??? if you look at the specs on this power supply is states.
410 watts output
450watts maximum for a few milliseconds.
<A HREF="http://www.case-mod.com/store/product_info.php?products..." target="_new">http://www.case-mod.com/store/product_info.php?products...;/A> link to specs on your new powersupply.
You have good equipment. Why do you keep purchasing crap power supplys????
You stated above that you had ordered a "TruePower" supply . Sparkle supplys with fsp in the model number is also made by Fortron.
Buy a good power supply and your troubles will be over.
edit You really do not want to run a power supply above 70% of its rated output. So if you figure 70% of 410watts=287 watts. not near enough to run your videocard.

I aint signing nothing!!!<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Rick_Criswell on 05/06/05 09:48 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
a b U Graphics card
May 7, 2005 2:16:19 AM

Sorry Hope you don't take the comments too harshly.
I know many power supply manufacturers overrate their power supplys(MOST DO). So the average consumer reads the box and thinks he is OK.Your cough- cough500 is really a 410 at best and a MAX of 450. So where did they get 500 from???

Sorry had 2 wisdom teeth and 1 adult molar removed. Between the Pain and Pain Pills I Apoligize.

I aint signing nothing!!!
May 7, 2005 2:32:43 AM

Model: SP500



FEATURES
Switches ATX Logic on-off
Additional power rocker switch
Maximum Power 500W
Transient Response
+5V,+12V and 3.3V outputs return to within 5% in less than 1ms for 20% load change.

P. G. Signal
100-500ms

Over Voltage Protection
recycle AC to reset
+5V trip point < +6.2V
+3.3V trip point < +4.1V
+12V trip point < +14.3V

Special Connectors
ATX12V
3-pin Fan Sensor
SATA
PCI Express

Leakage Current
<3.5mA @ 115VAC



DIMENSIONS
Unit Size
5.9"(L) x 5.5"(W) x 3.4"(H)
15cm(L) x 14 cm(W) x 8.6 cm(H)

Net Weight
5lbs.2.3kg



OUTPUT


+5V +12V1 +12V2 +3.3V -12V +5Vsb
Max. Load
35A
17A
19A
32A
0.3A
2.0A

Min. Load
0.5A
1A
1A
0.5A
0A
0A

Load Reg.
±5% ±5% ±5% ±5% ±5% ±5%
Ripple
m(p-p)
50
120
120
50
120
50

* +5V, +12V1, 12V2 and +3.3V maxload: 480Watts
* +5V and +3.3V combined output: 180Watts



INPUT
Input Voltage
100Vac to 240Vac +/- 10%

Input Frequency Range
47Hz to 63Hz

Inrush Current
640A @ 115V , 100A @ 230V

Input Current
12A @ 115V, 6A @ 230V

Hold-up Time
20ms at full load

Efficiency
70%(min.) at full and typical loads, 115V/230Vac

EMI/RFI
FCC Class B



ENVIRONMENTAL
Operating Temp.
10 ºC to 50 ºC

Operating Alt.
Sea Level-10,000 ft

MTBF
80,000 hours at 25’C

Safety Approval
TUV, UL, CUL, CE, CB, FCC


Doesn't this mean that the 12 volt rails are running 480? That's an acceptable load for the card. Please enlighten me either way.
a b U Graphics card
May 7, 2005 3:03:27 AM

NO!
12V x 19A=228watt
12V x 17A=204watt
That is the MAX total watts for>17ms .
The total watts on 5V 12v1,12v2 and 3.3v is 410watts at normal operation. not MAX. MAX is only good for 17ms.
+5V and +3.3V combined output: 180Watts
410total watts -180watts for5V&3V lines=230watts on the 12 volt lines during normal operation.
Like I said their labels and true numbers are completely different.

I aint signing nothing!!!
May 7, 2005 3:32:56 AM

Dang

You recommend Fortron?
a b U Graphics card
May 7, 2005 12:23:18 PM

Fortron, in my opimion is best. They rate their supplys at normal operation,not MAX output. Also the Sparkle and Enermax models with FSP in their model numbers are also made by Fortron.
The Antec True Power series is also good from what I hear.Which are rated at normal output Not MAX.

I aint signing nothing!!!
!