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The xbox 360 will destroy PC gaming.

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May 13, 2005 1:46:09 AM

Mark my words.

http://features.teamxbox.com/xbox/1145/The-Xbox-360-Dis...

Read the whole articles and you will understand.

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May 13, 2005 2:13:38 AM

Not to be disrespectful Coylter, but people said that about the playstation, nintendo 64, Playstation2, Gamecube, Xbox, etc...

Consoles will *never* end PC gaming, because in 2 years the Xbox360 won't hold a candle to the next 2 gens of videocards.

Mark my words. ;) 

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a b U Graphics card
May 13, 2005 2:25:59 AM

Two words;

Keyboard Mouse. :wink:

(edit PS, I agree with you, just adding the other benifits :lol:  )

I prefer consoles when drunk with friends (not letting them wreck my PC, you nutz! :lol:  ), I prefer PCs when playing 'the latest' games, especially with add-ons.

I suspect the graphics will be great, but these consoles are about 6-9 months away, so who knows. And they will always be limited by the quality of the TVs they are attached to. Even HDTVs can suck at 1024x768.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new"><font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by TheGreatGrapeApe on 05/12/05 08:28 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
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May 13, 2005 2:26:19 AM

people have been saying this since 6 months ago, i have my doubts though, when the xbox was being hyped about beating computers, which was 6 months before it was released, true my computer was equivalent in terms of specs, but by the time it came out, i was a good 5-10x faster than it already. R520 and G70 they'll probably beat their counterparts on the consoles, and remember on PC there's the possibility of SLI and AMR, AND FINALLY WE CAN UPGRADE!! CONSOLES CAN'T!! you're stuck with what you got for 5 years.
May 13, 2005 2:26:59 AM

HDTV is stuck at 1280x768 i believe.
a b U Graphics card
May 13, 2005 2:32:39 AM

Depends on the monitor, many are 1024x768 or 1280x768 or 1366x768 or if you're lucky 1400x1050/1080 or 1600x1080 or finally if you're very lucky 1920x1080 (1280 if it's a widescreen PC LCD).

My favourites are LCOS, but Intel dropped out of that race when they were at 1400x1050, so that's usually their max. Canon has an LCOS projector (14x10) that's been looking nice, but I haven't seen one anywhere north of the border.

The saddest ones are the 1024x768 60+inch monster imagine the pixels on them. Like watching an 80s era JumboTron. :lol: 

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new"><font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by TheGreatGrapeApe on 05/12/05 08:34 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 13, 2005 3:44:52 AM

I really just wanted to start a discussion :p 

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May 13, 2005 4:08:46 AM

We understand. [/compassionate] *hug*

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May 13, 2005 4:11:05 AM

But holy freakin' crap the console is pretty!!!

I didn't know pics were on the web that easily accessible. Didn't see any big hype news about it, figured it was really still hidden well until the MTV event.

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May 13, 2005 5:19:23 AM

You know what I still love to this day about PC gaming as opposed to the very good XBOX? The price of VERY good pc games slides rapidly when compared to Microsoft's XB. You can pick up great games for $20 or less for your pc while XB games that can be 12 months old or more will still be priced at a minimum of $25 or more. At least, that is how it is for us down here in OZ.

The other thing about the XB or the new XB is that the diversity of genres is sometimes lacking with console games. Have you noticed the groovy diversity of genres you can get for the pc? RTS games being a good example for the pc while severely lacking on the XB console.

It seems both pc gaming and cosole gaming have their places in the market.

<b><font color=green> "I dont get heart attacks MothFu#@er, I give em'" Jim Brown. </b> </font color=green>
a b U Graphics card
May 13, 2005 5:24:02 AM

LOL!

No Discussions, only official party line;

Graphics cards and PC good, Consoles Bad!

Consoles are bad, M'kay? :wink:

I think regardless of which people prefer the fall/winter will be a good time for games and graphics.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new"><font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
a b U Graphics card
May 13, 2005 5:26:10 AM

Have you seen the mock-up concept prototypes of the PS3? Holy moly that's one nice looking console, I'd get it just to classy up the living room. :cool:


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new"><font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
May 13, 2005 10:20:26 AM

GGA put a link to the PS3 Please thx GGA.

Yes i agree with the mouse keyboard thing to, i can neva play a good strat game with a console.

<font color=purple> MY FINGER IS ON THE BUTTON! </font color=purple>
May 13, 2005 5:21:17 PM

Quote:
But holy freakin' crap the console is pretty!!!

I didn't know pics were on the web that easily accessible. Didn't see any big hype news about it, figured it was really still hidden well until the MTV event.

Yes it look really nice , and the games too :wink:

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May 13, 2005 6:18:00 PM

Don't forget 64 bit. Plus dual core CPUs.
May 13, 2005 6:20:15 PM

Not the ole Jumbo Tron!!!!! :smile:
May 13, 2005 6:59:36 PM

Its a triple core x 3.2 ghz cpu.....

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May 13, 2005 7:49:49 PM

Its been a while since i posted anything but this topic got me thinking. I am a little confused. What is a console? The xbox 360 looks more like a computer to me than anything else. USB ports, IR remotes, a Harddrive for f'sakes. With millions of people with computers in their homes and that number growing every minute, i think it is only a matter of time before the xbox and other franchises actually develop computers. One big thing that is missing for computer games and part of the reason that you may think it is a dying media (for games) is that there is no advertising. At least not in Canada. Where were the hl2 commercials? For a game that has been unofficialy and officialy called "the best game ever" they sure didn't market it like one. What about doom 3(i see commercials for the xbox now), WoW, and if they want to make money EA needs to pump Battlefield 2. I still have friends that say halo 2 is the best game ever, i think that is the stupidest thing i have heard.
Ok i kinda went off there, but to finish what I was saying in the begining... eventually the xbox and franchises like those will eventually be budget priced PC's that can play on your TV. By the looks of the xbox 360, they already are.
May 13, 2005 9:09:45 PM

How many ESPs do you sell on average? [/completely out of topic]

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a b U Graphics card
May 13, 2005 11:15:44 PM

Ok, here are the top 3 mock-ups/fakes I have seen;

Probably the classiest/sexiest out there bar none:
<A HREF="http://img146.echo.cx/img146/4340/shineypiebig2qt.jpg" target="_new">http://img146.echo.cx/img146/4340/shineypiebig2qt.jpg&l...;/A>


The most futureistic looking (looks like a Starwars vehicle):
<A HREF="http://img146.echo.cx/img146/9616/concept81cm.jpg" target="_new">http://img146.echo.cx/img146/9616/concept81cm.jpg&lt;/A>


And the most versatile and complete mock-up I've seen:
<A HREF="http://img146.echo.cx/img146/8470/advancedtechologyps38..." target="_new">http://img146.echo.cx/img146/8470/advancedtechologyps38...;/A>

Now that first one would look great in any enetertainment unit regardless of what else is there. IT'd fit in with a B&O setup, Contrast well with a Viking 19" and JVC top-loading VCR making the entire system look retro in a good way.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new"><font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK :evil: 
May 13, 2005 11:50:08 PM

I think I would have to be one of the most naive hardware guys here, so any help gentlemen would be appreciated.

Having just read Toms view on this new console and the comment that it will outperform most high end gaming machines of today has me a bit freaked out. I have waited 5 long years to put together a new machine and I, like most of us here, want the best 'bang for my buck' that I can get. So I read that the new console is going to have cpu architecture similar to the Apple style with multi cpus in it and I am beginning to wonder if I should buy at all.

Is there some revolution coming in pc cpus that will quad today's powerful Intel and AMD chips?

I dont want to look like a wanka having spent $2500 plus [Aus$] on a new pc only to see my 9 year old nephew laughing in my face at Christmas because he has something that makes my pc machine look decidely second rate.

Am I making sense? Forgive me, but my confidence in purchasing a new machine is tested here, especially when I am completely honeset and state openly that my new pc will be used 90% for gaming - strategy games at that - like EE2.

Any thoughts on this, gents?

<b><font color=green> "I dont get heart attacks MothFu#@er, I give em'" Jim Brown. </b> </font color=green>
May 14, 2005 4:39:24 AM

Quote:
I think I would have to be one of the most naive hardware guys here, so any help gentlemen would be appreciated.

Having just read Toms view on this new console and the comment that it will outperform most high end gaming machines of today has me a bit freaked out. I have waited 5 long years to put together a new machine and I, like most of us here, want the best 'bang for my buck' that I can get. So I read that the new console is going to have cpu architecture similar to the Apple style with multi cpus in it and I am beginning to wonder if I should buy at all.

Is there some revolution coming in pc cpus that will quad today's powerful Intel and AMD chips?

I dont want to look like a wanka having spent $2500 plus [Aus$] on a new pc only to see my 9 year old nephew laughing in my face at Christmas because he has something that makes my pc machine look decidely second rate.

Am I making sense? Forgive me, but my confidence in purchasing a new machine is tested here, especially when I am completely honeset and state openly that my new pc will be used 90% for gaming - strategy games at that - like EE2.

Any thoughts on this, gents?

Id define console now as a unified architechture that developer get to work on. The developer know that everyone will have that same exact machine he is using and they can use ever single bit of processing power to make that game better. This in my opinion is the way of the future for gaming, even if i like tweaking and piece swapping of the pc.

Since microsoft is buying is huge quantity, id say that the xbox 360 will cost about 299$ and yes, it will outperform our 2000$ rigs, there is no doupt about it.

Signature (up to 200 characters). You may use <font color=blue><b>Markup</b></font color=blue> in your signature<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Coylter on 05/14/05 00:40 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 14, 2005 5:29:43 AM

I seroiusly doubt if it'll beat a SLI G70 or an AMR R520, with an AMD X2 CPU. But then again, the computer will cost in the range of 2000-2500 dollars rather than 300-500 dollars.
May 14, 2005 5:33:44 AM

The video card is a new generation ati gpu, probably not as fast as a SLI next gen nvidia but with the 3 core cpu helping with shadow and whatever the developer need. I can see the xbox being on par with a 3000$ high end gaming pc.

Another question to ask yourself. Will the pc games be made to use dual core cpu? I think not , not before a while at least. While all the xbox360 games are gonna be MADE for a <b>3 core</b> cpu.

Signature (up to 200 characters). You may use <font color=blue><b>Markup</b></font color=blue> in your signature<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Coylter on 05/14/05 01:36 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 14, 2005 5:47:11 AM

3 core cpu clocked at 1000mhz? with 128k cache each? because i highly doubt if it'll get beyond 1500mhz with 256k l2cache eache without the box catching on fire.
May 14, 2005 5:48:04 AM

so remember our CPU's will be clocked in the range of 3Ghz from AMD, and 4-5Ghz from Intel.
May 14, 2005 5:51:40 AM

But then again, if Xbox 360 proves to be a huge success i'll buy one, and dump my pc and get a better notebook. That's the problem, by the time Xbox 360 actually hits retail market, i think i would probably already have an AMD chip overclocked to near 4ghz. And I don't give a crap how many core that intel CPU has or how how high they clock that cell procesor, they'll struggle to beat the 4Ghz A64.
May 14, 2005 5:53:46 AM

Each core is running at 3.2 ghz i said :p 

And the console is releasing this november :p 

And its not a intel cpu, its a IBM 3 core power pc :p 

And there wont be 4ghz amd by that time :p 

Signature (up to 200 characters). You may use <font color=blue><b>Markup</b></font color=blue> in your signature<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Coylter on 05/14/05 02:11 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 14, 2005 5:56:21 AM

I'll have to actually see one before i'll actually believe that 3core 3.2ghz... because heat does become a b*tch in that small of space. Yeah November... when there's only 200 on the market at inflated prices... so probably late december is when the price will actually hit MSRP?
May 14, 2005 5:58:25 AM

Its been anounced, its official, there is games running on it :p 
Its coming out this november.

Its heatpipe/watercooled.

MSRP 299$

Please take a look for yourself...
<A HREF="http://features.teamxbox.com/xbox/1145/The-Xbox-360-Dis..." target="_new">http://features.teamxbox.com/xbox/1145/The-Xbox-360-Dis...;/A>

On a side note, the console has 1 terraflop of computing power.

Signature (up to 200 characters). You may use <font color=blue><b>Markup</b></font color=blue> in your signature<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Coylter on 05/14/05 02:03 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 14, 2005 6:04:15 AM

LOL i think i'm sounding anti-console, but by no way i am, in fact I have an Xbox(bios flashed to get use pirate games of course:D ), because there are some games i really enjoyed on it, but the graphics are just simply crap compare to the pc when i crank res to 1280x768 with 4xAA and 16XAF. I have no doubt the performance on the next gen. consoles will be great, but i'm just not sure how far the computer has advanced by the time it actually came out. I know for a fact, 5 months before the release of Xbox i was on a geforce2 MX, with a 1.0Ghz Duron, and heard that the Xbox is going to be using a geniune p3 800mhz, and a geforce4 mx, so it's going to be about equivalent to mine, but since games are all nicely designed for it it's going to perform better. But by the time the console hit retail channels, i got it about 2 months after it did for the price to come down a little, i've already got a GF4 TI4200 in my comp, which totally destroyed the console graphics.
May 14, 2005 6:05:00 AM

Its 3 physical core with 2 virtual core each.

Spec sheet:
<A HREF="http://hardware.teamxbox.com/articles/xbox/1144/The-Xbo..." target="_new">http://hardware.teamxbox.com/articles/xbox/1144/The-Xbo...;/A>

Ingame:
<A HREF="http://media.xboxyde.com/gallery/public/1091/726_0001.j..." target="_new">http://media.xboxyde.com/gallery/public/1091/726_0001.j...;/A>

Signature (up to 200 characters). You may use <font color=blue><b>Markup</b></font color=blue> in your signature<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Coylter on 05/14/05 02:06 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 14, 2005 6:07:35 AM

Quote:
LOL i think i'm sounding anti-console, but by no way i am, in fact I have an Xbox(bios flashed to get use pirate games of course:D ), because there are some games i really enjoyed on it, but the graphics are just simply crap compare to the pc when i crank res to 1280x768 with 4xAA and 16XAF. I have no doubt the performance on the next gen. consoles will be great, but i'm just not sure how far the computer has advanced by the time it actually came out. I know for a fact, 5 months before the release of Xbox i was on a geforce2 MX, with a 1.0Ghz Duron, and heard that the Xbox is going to be using a geniune p3 800mhz, and a geforce4 mx, so it's going to be about equivalent to mine, but since games are all nicely designed for it it's going to perform better. But by the time the console hit retail channels, i got it about 2 months after it did for the price to come down a little, i've already got a GF4 TI4200 in my comp, which totally destroyed the console graphics.

Not this time. You wont see a pc like that when this console come out, and certainly not for 299$. Read the link im providing at least :p 

Im not being biased, im just putting the fact straight. And as much as i like my pc, i can not denied that this is an awesome machine, and that it got more power than anything we can get from our pc for a long while.

Signature (up to 200 characters). You may use <font color=blue><b>Markup</b></font color=blue> in your signature<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Coylter on 05/14/05 02:09 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 14, 2005 6:08:37 AM

it's physical 3 cores, virtual 6. But I highly doubt if it'll have the efficiency of Dothans, or A64 series. If they can clock it at 3.2Ghz even if it only has 64k cache, without the box actually catching on fire, i have to say i'm impressed. But we'll find out how efficient that'll be compare to IBM's cell procesor, or to Socket F and M2 CPU's.

On the PC side, i'm actually really looking forward to Yonah(Dual core Dothan) with 4mb l2 cache, and with its low heat dissipation and high efficienty, hoping it can push 4ghz with sub zero temps, then that thing will kick ass.
May 14, 2005 6:10:34 AM

Quote:
it's physical 3 cores, virtual 6. But I highly doubt if it'll have the efficiency of Dothans, or A64 series. If they can clock it at 3.2Ghz even if it only has 64k cache, without the box actually catching on fire, i have to say i'm impressed. But we'll find out how efficient that'll be compare to IBM's cell procesor, or to Socket F and M2 CPU's.

On the PC side, i'm actually really looking forward to Yonah(Dual core Dothan) with 4mb l2 cache, and with its low heat dissipation and high efficienty, hoping it can push 4ghz with sub zero temps, then that thing will kick ass.

Ibm chips have proved to be on par with AMD for their IPC. Like i also said its water cooled.

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May 14, 2005 6:11:37 AM

Another huge downside of consoles... upgradability, there's no way you can upgrade anything since almost everything is integrated. So even if it destroys pc gaming for the first year, the next gen console isn't going to come out for another 4-5 years... And in 1 year the PC graphics market will have jumped another 2 gen.
May 14, 2005 6:13:20 AM

Thats true, but at least developers get a standard platform to work on. This seem like an advantage to me.

And that console has enough power to fuel games for the next 3years at least.

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May 14, 2005 6:13:45 AM

LOL... you see that's where i start to have my doubts on Microsoft's marketing strategy, you watercool a game console that 8 year olds are going to own. Water evaporates, so every 4-5 months you're going to fill and bleed the watercooling system... and i'm sure every 8 year old have the balls to pour water into electronics, even their parents will tell them they're insane.
May 14, 2005 6:15:02 AM

Quote:
LOL... you see that's where i start to have my doubts on Microsoft's marketing strategy, you watercool a game console that 8 year olds are going to own. Water evaporates, so every 4-5 months you're going to fill and bleed the watercooling system... and i'm sure every 8 year old have the balls to pour water into electronics, even their parents will tell them they're insane.


The console is targetted to young adult. And its not your regular watercooling, more like an heatpipe with water in it.

On a side note:
Quote:
1 MB L2 cache


Signature (up to 200 characters). You may use <font color=blue><b>Markup</b></font color=blue> in your signature<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Coylter on 05/14/05 02:16 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 14, 2005 6:15:40 AM

I've heard of rumours that games on Xbox360 will share with PC, that'll make piracy so much easier.

And i've heard that pc gamers can fight it out with console gamers online. That'll be great:D  kb/mouse will definently r@pe joystick in firstperson shooter.
May 14, 2005 6:16:59 AM

water always finds a way:D  trust me on that.
May 14, 2005 6:17:45 AM

Quote:
I've heard of rumours that games on Xbox360 will share with PC, that'll make piracy so much easier.

And i've heard that pc gamers can fight it out with console gamers online. That'll be great:D  kb/mouse will definently r@pe joystick in firstperson shooter.


False rumor since the porting from pc and xbox360 will be much harder because of a very different architechture. Xbox360 will have primarly exclusive titles.

Signature (up to 200 characters). You may use <font color=blue><b>Markup</b></font color=blue> in your signature<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Coylter on 05/14/05 02:19 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 14, 2005 6:18:01 AM

BTW 1mb per cpu or in total?
May 14, 2005 6:18:19 AM

Quote:
water always finds a way:D  trust me on that.

Dreamcast had the same kind of watercooling.

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May 14, 2005 6:18:48 AM

Quote:
BTW 1mb per cpu or in total?



Total

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May 14, 2005 6:20:39 AM

Ahh well i'll just work on my latest project, to have a full self-contained watercooled notebook, and wait to see how xbox360 stacks up against ps3, and well i do want to see if intel comes with that 7ghz CPU they promised a while ago, something about revolutionary design to just have a die or something, i can't remember that article.
May 14, 2005 6:22:07 AM

so each core has






































































































































































































































































































































































































































































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May 14, 2005 6:22:39 AM

No its shared.

On a side note, edit your post, its [-peep-] up the whole thread ><<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Coylter on 05/14/05 02:23 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
May 14, 2005 6:24:14 AM

I agree with you that it's good to have a set standard, makes developing that much easier.
May 14, 2005 6:24:51 AM

the purpose of that was to make it harder for people to read and reply:D 
!