G70 better than R520?

Caimbeul · May 25, 2005

I wonder how much truth there is in this?

<A HREF="http://link" target="_new"> http://theinquirer.net/?article=23471 </A>

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TheGreatGrapeApe · May 25, 2005

Like the article mentions Epic = TWIMTBP.

I would prefer if the video provided more of a reason why Sweeney felt this way, what differences he thinks give the G70 this edge.

I would be surprised if the 110nm G70 would be competitive, but I wouldn't be surprised if the 90nm chip were competitive.

As always we'll have to wait and see.

PS your link is linked to nada, you did what I've done a few time and did a <url=> instead of <url>

Here it is again if people can't figure out how to cut/paste;

<A HREF="http://theinquirer.net/?article=23471" target="_new">http://theinquirer.net/?article=23471</A>

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

Xeon · May 25, 2005

I would prefer if the video provided more of a reason why Sweeney felt this way, what differences he thinks give the G70 this edge.

Sales baby oh soo many sales.

-Jeremy Dach

HardWareBoss · May 25, 2005

Don't hold your breath waiting on them.

pauldh · May 25, 2005

I think the Inq may have got wind of this from <A HREF="http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23212" target="_new">B3D Forums</A>. I was following this over the weekend, and it I tend to agree with the general concensus that little can be taken from that comment.

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TheGreatGrapeApe · May 25, 2005

Yeah it's such a throw away reply too with little substance.

It's like asking Buddhists/Christians/Jews/Muslims/etc. who's the one and only true God.

No Bias there of course. Well, I guess you could omit the Buddhists.

It would have been interesting if they had followed that question up with a... "Ok and then between the G70 and the R500/Xbox?" and see if their loyalty lies more to nV or M$. :evil:

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

cleeve · May 25, 2005

Gotta love Sweeney's chuckle, as though he's saying "What the hell do you expect me to answer, you shmuck? Nvidia's the one handing out the cheques..."

Still, more fuel for the fire. Can't wait to see these cards go head-to-head.

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scottchen · May 25, 2005

I just can't believe, nobody has yet claimed their next gen top end can beat SLI 6800ultra, Nvidia said G70 is better than SLI 6800GT, and Inq seems convinced that the R520 won't beat SLI 6800ultra neither.

pauldh · May 26, 2005

GF7800GTX = 50% faster than GF6800U is one rumor floating around. Maybe false rumor spread to make ATI over-confident?

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scottchen · May 26, 2005

50% faster that's nothing... The 6800ultra jump from 5900ultra was a 100% performance jump in most cases. So it's confirmed that SLI 6800ultra will destroy a single G70 i guess.

shawnlizzle =] · May 26, 2005

false advertising has turned us into pestimistic b@stards

gforce mx100/200 @ 230/440 =]

scottchen · May 26, 2005

This next round, ATI is the one coming up with the evolutionary jump, while the previous round, Nvidia won the innovation award.

KCjoker · May 26, 2005

I think 50% faster is amazing. We just got spoiled with this last generation. I'm also thinking Nvidia put out wrong specs to throw ATI off but who knows.

scottchen · May 26, 2005

Wrong specs? Those seems pretty realistic to me. Remember the jump from ATI on their 8xxx to 9xxx? That was a 100% performance jump too. We should have more of those, in fact every gen should be 1 of those. Maybe the next generation will be a bigger jump, Nvidia and ATI may think that a faster card may not be fully utilized because CPU speeds are too slow.

KCjoker · May 27, 2005

I'm just thinking Nvidia put out lower specs to throw ATI off. That way ATI plans to be a little better than these and Nvidia comes out higher than expected. I agree with you that CPU speeds are too slow maybe Dual cores will help.

scottchen · May 27, 2005

Yeah we're waiting for that CPU generation jump.

eden · May 27, 2005

Uh in normal performance, the 9xxx serie was not more than 40% faster than the 8500. Only in AA*AF did the new age of antialiasing technology emerge as we saw compression helping gain over twice the performance in IQ enhancements over previous generation GPUs.

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scottchen · May 27, 2005

Well at least 3dmark03 doubled during that jump. And in many first person shooters the performance increase was huge too.

eden · May 27, 2005

In regular games at the time, the thing was not THAT powerful. And almost every new 3dMark will restrict previous generations of cards from using the new benchmarks which already there will remove a lot of points, so there really isn't a valid point of comparison just like that. True its performance probably rose a bit in DX9 optimized games, but it was not a 100% or more boost unless you played with IQ enhancements.

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TheGreatGrapeApe · May 27, 2005

the 9xxx serie was not more than 40% faster than the 8500.

Depends on the measure/yardstick you use to guage the increases.

<A HREF="http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/over2k4/index.html" target="_new">http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/over2k4/index.html</A>

Most games seem to be hampered by their low resolution (CPU/SYSTEM/GAME limited), but looking at Unreal II in the above it's pretty much a 100% improvement.

Also looking at games like FartCry, Painkiller, Halo in the above, you see that despite sometimes being PS1.1 vs PS2.0 it's about 75-100+% increase from R8500 to R9700P and D]|[ is about 500+% increase. And some games it would be exponentially more because the R8500 gets 0. And these were relatively low-res test, so it doesn't play to the strengths of the R9700P where it would be system limited in the max playable R8500 resolutions.

I tend to agree with scottchen, each generation has offered some form of 100% increase. For the R9700P it was definitely for the high res crowd (forget AA+AF even), for the last generation it was for both high res and AA+AF, and in current games. Perhaps we need to wait for games like UE3.0 to appreciate the increase, but the specs provided I don't see areas where the G70 will give 100% more than the GF6800U until it moves to the refreshed 90nm. I would expect the R520 might be able to achieve that from speed increaes in addition to pipeline additions

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

Edited by TheGreatGrapeApe on 05/27/05 11:09 AM.

pauldh · May 28, 2005

The 9700 Pro absolutely destroyed the Radeon 8500 in UT2003. I went from an BBA Radeon 8500 64MB to a BBA 9500 pro and saw a huge improvement in UT2003.

EDIT: Good Ole <A HREF="http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20021218/vgacharts-04.html" target="_new">Toms' VGA charts</A> shows a bigger gap than I remembered even. NO AA/AF and it's a slaughter.

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Edited by Pauldh on 05/27/05 07:02 PM.

scottchen · May 28, 2005

I agree i see no way the G70 or the R520 could be 100% faster than the current generation high end, 6800ultra or the X850XT. I always thought that the geforce6 generation was a better buy the X8xx series just because it's a whole new evolutionary design, as oppose to the X8xx series using the R300 design. But this next one, ATI is the one coming out with whole design, while Nvidia is based on the Go6800.

TheGreatGrapeApe · May 28, 2005

Well the thing about the R520 that we don't know is the performance of the as of yet unproven 90nm Low-K. Going based on math alone (worst way to try and accuratly predict future performance, but a good method to simply 'guess') the R520 is supposed to be 24 true pixel pipes (maybe more flexible ones), and to achieve a 100% 'theoretical' increase from the core you'd need to only increase the mhz speed by only ~33%. Of course to best achieve performance increases it would be nice to be able to give at least an equal boost from the memory (which we know isn't going to happen this year).

Depending on the situation we 'may' see it and the R520 may be the best 'chance' to achieve that '+100%' , but even then I agree it's unlikely either will provide that kind of a boost, and I don't doubt that's because we've accepted less return from both of them and they want to slow down on their development. Do you doubt that if it were Creative, Matrox, S3 or XGI that came out with a part with the paper specs of the R520, that both ATi and nV would be releasing products with more impressive stats, and likely closer to the R500's architecture. This seems less like competition to me than a comfortable Oligopoly that still pushes each other, just not hard enough to really take advantage of what they 'COULD' be giving us. And thathas alot to do with ATi's decision to release R300 part Deux, instead of the R400 (which may have really been closer to the R500's design).

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

scottchen · May 28, 2005

Either way the graphics market has jumped significantly in the past few years, CPU's are really falling behind. It'd be nice to have Intel releasing that 7Ghz CPU.

sweatlaserxp · May 28, 2005

As history has taught us, it might be best to wait until both of the cards are released.

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G70 better than R520?

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