Crossfire pictures and info

Vapor · May 30, 2005

Seems that the Inq has some more info and pics of ATi's Crossfire.

<A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23570" target="_new">Picture of the card</A> (notice the first DVI adapter and its high pin count).

<A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23569" target="_new">Picture of the set up</A> (two cards, dongle connected).

<A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23571" target="_new">Some paraphrased ATi jibber-jabber about the performance</A> (typical INQ quality....can't quite tell what it means).

Only a 10% gain in 3DMark03 over a single card? Weird.

100% gain in Splinter Cell over a single card?

Should be interesting the next few days as we get more official info from more reliable places.

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.

Vapor · May 30, 2005

Unfortunately this isn't enough info to shut an nVidiot up....every website EVER needs to say ATi is better before that'll happen!

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.

TheGreatGrapeApe · May 30, 2005

Only a 10% gain in 3DMark03 over a single card? Weird.

But remember thats 2 x X850XTs versus 1 X850XTPE.

Still not impressive, but not quite the same as just 10% more than normal single performance.

Looks interesting, too bad you need that master card with it's special 'DVI' connector. All the more reason to wait if you're about to make a purchase. And interesting it's BBA only.

I'm just waiting to see the MoBos in greater detail.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

scottchen · May 30, 2005

This definently won't shut up nvidiots, in fact this doesn't prove a thing, everything the inquirer says needs to be taken was a grain of salt.

eden · May 31, 2005

Yeah well that single grain, as I've noticed, has been often turning into a sack of sugar these past times.

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TheGreatGrapeApe · May 31, 2005

Some more pics and info;

<A HREF="http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/ati/mvp/" target="_new">http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/ati/mvp/</A>

<A HREF="http://techreport.com/etc/2005q2/ati-crossfire/index.x?pg=1" target="_new">http://techreport.com/etc/2005q2/ati-crossfire/index.x?pg=1</A>

<A HREF="http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=Nzc4" target="_new">http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=Nzc4</A>

<A HREF="http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/article.php?id=378" target="_new">http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/article.php?id=378</A>

<A HREF="http://www.firingsquad.com/features/computex_2005_ati_crossfire_technology/" target="_new">http://www.firingsquad.com/features/computex_2005_ati_crossfire_technology/</A>

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

scottchen · May 31, 2005

[homer]hmm... Sugar[/homer]

scottchen · May 31, 2005

Oh this is good, so if you currently have a X8xx card, you just need another one with crossfire, don't have to dump it.

Crossfire... funny how if you search that word on google, first thing that pops up isn't the definition, but that crappy CNN partisan show.

KCjoker · May 31, 2005

I bet alot of ATI fans that said Nvidia's SLI was not neccessary will want this. I think it's great and although supply won't be very good at first it will give people more choices.

mpasternak · May 31, 2005

this isn't a new idea though

3DFX used this technique during the first generations of 3D. you had your video card and an aditional 3D card, that was connected externally through a cable like this where the "daughter" board added the 3d and stuff.

I see the benefit of this in a sense that you can use an existing ATI card without having to purchase the "identical twin" as you do with SLI, but i can't imagine this being that super in performance. all i can see happening is a scene is rendered, outputted to the second card and re-rendered... arent you now just adding steps and doing serial processing on the image?

with SLI it's Parellel processing as both cards process the image at the same time, just their own portions of it. wouldnt this be faster?

I'm a little confused on the technology behind this

TheGreatGrapeApe · May 31, 2005

AnandTech too!

Specifically left them out of my list.

Unless there's truely revolutionary (and unbiased) information, they don't get a nod from me on anything.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

scottchen · May 31, 2005

I search everything on google.

TheGreatGrapeApe · May 31, 2005

I bet alot of ATI fans that said Nvidia's SLI was not neccessary will want this.

Well I don't think you're reading our statements correctly. IT's not about Fandom, it's about utility, and those of us who said 2 x GF6800U/GT was unwise will say the same about spending full price for 2X850XTs.

Some major benifits that will make this more attractive than SLI ver.1 are; it's effectiveness in more games (they say it's universal, we'll see) , it's ability to use different cards (SLi often has trouble with different production runs of the same card even) , the lack of an 'SLi Tax' for MoBo makers , and that it might work on nV SLi/Ultra boards with proper drivers (unsure if this is under the control of the MoBo maker or only nV [hacked drivers an option]).

Its still not a recommended choice for most people, but as it stands right now there are far more attractive reasons than SLi version 1 , SLI v. 2 however may be just as or more attractiv still, but still just for a limited number of people until upgrade path is reached.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

aLawLz187 · May 31, 2005

one question... say if i buy an ati mobo with crossfire, which card would you have to buy first for it to work... the crossfire edition or the normal edition?

-lawler

A64 3500+ / K8N Neo2 Plat / BBA 9600pro / 2x512mb HyperX ddr500 / Audigy LS / Samsung 120gb

Wanna buy a Thermaltake XaserIII SuperTower Blk Edition w/ 420w psu UNOPENED, tell me.

TheGreatGrapeApe · May 31, 2005

3DFX used this technique during the first generations of 3D.

And they weren't the only ones. As for daughter boards they were behind others in 2D+3D. It was SLi where they were relative forerunners.

all i can see happening is a scene is rendered, outputted to the second card and re-rendered... arent you now just adding steps and doing serial processing on the image?

It doesn't have to be re-rendered. Even using AFR it doesn't work like that, and that would require the most interaction back and forth.

with SLI it's Parellel processing as both cards process the image at the same time, just their own portions of it.

Thats not how nV's "SLi" works that's how 3DFx's TRUE SLI worked. nV doesn't do SLI at all, it's name is a bastardization of that which people remember. nV uses AFR and SFR not Scan Line Interleve. All the renering techniques nV uses ATi uses, with the addition of their SuperTiling (and augmented AA implementation).

To understand them better it's a good idea to look at an old review by Lars ;
<A HREF="http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/19991008/slides.html#slide13" target="_new">http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/19991008/slides.html#slide13</A>
(There the type of SFR demonstrated is the PCG example which is very rigid compared to the current load-balanced SFR method which can do uneven divisions of the screen)

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

TheGreatGrapeApe · May 31, 2005

You could buy either, but at some point you would need a crossfire edition. So people who have already bought an older 'slave' card could make their next purchase a Crossfire card, and up until they do MVP they wouldn't need to worry about their card. You could also buy a Crossfire card now and then later get a second similar card for cheap and add it later (like buy an X800XL Crossfire edition now, and then later add another when they release better cards and the price goes down). Either method would work.

I would recommend you go with the crossfire first ONLY if you can find it for cheap and near the same price as a current non-crossfire card. Most likely a slightly more powerfull Crossifre card will be available for the same price or cheaper by the time you decide to add it. As an example an X800XL Crossfire card may cost $299 now, but in 6-9 months when the X9xx and G7x cards are ubiquitous maybe you could get an X850XT CrossFire for the same price.

I would say start with a normal card unless you plan on upgrading sometime soon or if you can get one for a great deal at BestBuy/FutureShop/Fry's/etc.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

KCjoker · Jun 1, 2005

GreatGrape I didn't mean you or anyone specificly. Sorry if it came off that way. I just think some ATI fanboys that blasted SLI saying it wasn't worth it will now hop on ATI's bandwagon. At the same time I know had roles been reversed Nvidia fanboys would've done the exact same thing. I just don't get people that are 100% loyal to brand names rather than the best available at that given time. Hell I'd buy a S3 if it were the best.

lonelypauly · Jun 1, 2005

I doubt ATI would even be doing this if SLI had not been a success from a marketing standpoint. It seems as if ATI is following Nvidia's lead, although it may turn out to be better than SLI. IMO ATI and Nvidia are both good choices, I don't understand why fanboys on either side pledge allegiance to a brand name, unless they don't have much else going on in their lives.

Athlon64 3200+ Winchester/MSI Neo4 Platinum SLI/MSI 6800 Ultra/1 GB Kingston HyperX (Dual Channel)/74GB WD Raptor/600Watt Enermax Noisetaker/ Dual Mitsubishi 21 Inch Monitors

eden · Jun 1, 2005

You know, I really can't wait to see Kinney's reaction to this. In almost any way you put it, CrossFire is superior to SLi.

BTW Lars didn't write that old article. Just thought I'd mention to whom credit should be due.

Finally, check the Anandtech preview, they tested DOOM III. I was amazed at the results, they are perhaps superior to the SLi results. Even in 1024*768 the performance was almost 50% better. And yes they gave props to ATi after the results.

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TheGreatGrapeApe · Jun 1, 2005

Aha, an article involving Thomas!

I naturally assumed Lars, since it wasn't on the page, I didn't bother to check (lazy).

Finally, check the Anandtech preview,

What makes you think I didn't? I wouldn't know if there were something extrordinary to warrant me finally linking them if I didn't at least read it.

And yes they gave props to ATi after the results.

Reluctantly, qualified, and with a bunch of extraneous information not pertinent to Crossfire itself. I don't remember Anand mentioning the NF4's issues when they reviewed SLi, why bother mentioning it in the Crossfire review when the southbridge's are not really influential here (how does revision A's USB woes effect performance of Crossfire)? The only reason to do so is to try and bring some FUD to the fore to help out nV. Mention it once, and then move on, instead they keep harping on an issue that may not matter to anyone. Who cares if it's an ATi or ULi southbridge anyways as long as it works? And how does that greatly impact your performance if your mouse keyboard and printer are functioning at 360Mb/s instead of 480?

Why nothing like this about the NF4 growing pains in the SLi previews/reviews? No those were much more effusive ignoring/dismissing any potential issues with statements like;

"In our conversation with NVIDIA, we noted that this technology should work with all software without any modification necessary, "

or

"Despite the early nature of the motherboard, it was 100% stable and didn't crash once during our hours of testing nor in the 12 hours of burn-in before that. There were some rendering issues during some of the testing but we'd chalk that up to drivers that need some work; one thing to keep in mind is that SLI is extremely driver intensive and we'll explain why in a moment. "

or

"Surprisingly enough, throughout all of our testing, we didn’t encounter any rendering issues in SLI mode. NVIDIA insists that they have tested quite a few of the top 100 games to ensure that there aren’t any issues with SLI mode and it does seem that they’ve done a good job with their driver. If the driver hasn’t been profiled with a game, it will default to single-GPU mode to avoid any rendering issues, but the user can always force SLI mode if they wish"

or

"While companies like ASUS, Gigabyte and MSI are working to get their boards out before the end of the year, it looks like the majority of manufacturers won’t have product on the streets until the first few months of 2005. We’d anticipate that by the middle of 2005, you’ll be able to purchase SLI motherboards for near mainstream Socket-939 prices,"

(Anyone seen an SLi board for near the same price of a 'mainstream' S939 board? Maybe abother month it's not quite the middle of '05 yet right?

)

etc, etc, etc..

All of this plus the constant repetition of myth of the 'upgrade potential' and falling prices and how this would be a great option that offered '40-70%' performance boost where it counts.

Compare that overexcited praise of SLi (with no reservation that the rest of the community and reviewers had) with the costant 'it's nice but they still have alot of work to fix other issues' tone of their Crossfire review and see if I'm wrong about the tone of their review compred to just about everyone else's. They go out of their way to find some tarnish on any silver linning ATi might have.

Crossfire is still a niche product, but when reading Anand's review it's obvious where they stand in the grand PR/Marketing scheme of things.

I will always read their reviews, but more for the entertainment value of 'what will they think of next?' than for any indepth examination.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

eden · Jun 3, 2005

What makes you think I didn't? I wouldn't know if there were something extrordinary to warrant me finally linking them if I didn't at least read it.

Hehehe, vous êtes rusé mon cher ami!

Anyways I do agree Anandtech has been rather pro-nVidia lately. I don't see it as much in the quotes you inserted, but I do know they tend to have that. Seriously, people are quick to bash THGC, but they still are the guys who often dare to try other methods to find flaws in the system. Their LCD monitor reviews are the best example.

And Lars does an awesome job at bringing regular VGA Charts updates to help consumers have an overall look of the products out there and their performance versus many others.

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The <A HREF="http://snipurl.com/blsb" target="_new">THGC Photo Album</A>, send in your pics, get your own webpage and view other members' sites.Edited by Eden on 06/03/05 00:33 AM.

Worf101 · Jun 6, 2005

Okay, so I've a X800 XT PE now in my system. I'm using an HIS Excalibur with IceQII cooling so I'm already using up 2 slots. Then I get the 256 Crossfire and mate it to this card (assuming my power supply can handle it) and I'm good to go for another couple of years?

Da Worfster

If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.

Crossfire pictures and info

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