GMA900 comparison

[Shrub]

I'm looking to buy a Pentium M based mobo, and, on the one I've seen is the GMA900 GPU. How does this onboard GPU compare to other graphics cards, specifically a ti4200, when using a Pentium M 715 @ 1.5Ghz or a 760 @ 2.0Ghz?

Thanks

 

[Guest]

<A HREF="http://graphics.tomshardware.com/graphic/20050524/index.html" target="_new">Here you can see the GMA900 vs modern graphic cards</A>

As for a direct comparison with a ti4200 cant find one. ALtough I'd think the ti4200 would be a bit more powerfull. I have the previoubs generation of integrated grapgics and I can run nfsu2 on my laptop no problem 1024 or so just not that much eye candy...

Also theres a link between the type of memory used because the graphic card uses shared memory

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[Guest]

oh and the cpu does have a good impact on 3d performance too because the GPU offload some of the work(vertex computation?) to the cpu

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[TheRod]

Why do you want to compare the GMA to anything? GMA suck period. It's only good for non-gaming usage.

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[Guest]

Lol good point, the benchmark in VGA chart III clearly show it heh

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[Shrub]

Thanks. I read the VGA charts pages, not much good to me though - I'm not downloading 3Dmark 2005 to just get a rough benchmark for my ti4200 lol. I'm considering the 2GHz version, it's a bit more expensive than the 1.5 version but with a new mobo and RAM (I have to have 400Mhz - my current RAM is 333Mhz) the price isn't going to be all that much different.
I read somewhere that Abit have made an CPU adaptor for a certain socket type of mobo (can't remember which), which will be perfect really because an older mobo and the adaptor should come to less than half the price of the new Pentium M based mobos, and I wouldn't have to replace my ti4200 with a PCI-E card. I'd still have to get new RAM, though. Know anything about this adaptor and what mobo's it'll work on at all please?

Yeah, I think that's right about the GPU offloading some tasks to the CPU. Pixel and vertex shading, IIRC.

Thanks again

 

[Shrub]

I just need a comparison with my old ti4200 too see if I can retire it, Rod. I have 2 options, I think. If I can get an AGP Pentium M board (or an adapted board) with a cheap and cheerful onboard GFX chip, I can use the ti4200 for when I want to play games, and remove it for when I want to save electricity and have some peace and quiet.
If the GMA900 compares well to the ti4200 then I could buy the more expensive mobo, have it's extra features and retire the ti4200, and, if one ever comes out, eventually buy a PCI-E GFX card equivalent of a Pentium M - moderate performance but low power needs and low noise

 

[Guest]

As for the gpu I just checked and pixel shader are handle by the GPU and vertex shader are offloaded to the CPU...

As for adaptor Asus has one too, you can probably read the article on toms(if you didnt already). Stick with the 4200, i have a friend with a ti4200 and his gaming is much better than on my laptop( p-m 1.7ghz[2 meg] with GMA855 vs P4-2.4[533fsb] with ti4200)

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[ChipDeath]

Unless you specifically <i>need</i> a P-M for some reason, you'd be better off buying an A64 system.

Any particular reason you're not looking at that route?

---
<font color=red>"Life is <i>not</i> like a box of chocolates. It's more like a jar of jalapeńos - what you do today might burn your a<b></b>ss tommorrow."

 

[Shrub]

I didn't know Asus did one, but it's too be expect if Abit have done it lol/ I'll look the article up, cheers.

I love my ti4200. I heard they can cope well with high temps, but I'm afraid of having mine rise above 49°c so I shoved a couple of new fans on it and removed the piddly plastic one that doesn't seem to do anything. I've got it stable at 315Mhz / 610Mhz and it peaks at 52°c (47°c for the RAM). Anyway I'm blabbing on now

 

[Shrub]

A64s are great but I don't need that kind of performance. I'm just looking for a mid range machine that I can passively cool - or at least have a single, 7v wired low noise fan

 

[TheRod]

By the way, why do you want a Pentium-M based system. Athlon 64 S939 are cheaper to build. With Cool&Quiet they are very efficient in term of power and noise.

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[Guest]

Im in line with these guys! PM is sweet but way to expansive IMO(desktop wise laptop is different)!

A little A64 on a nf3 board will be cheaper and perform better in most task(probly worst in some games and selected apps)

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[Shrub]

Looking at the charts for power consumption it seems the lower end 64s use about 3 times as much power than the Aopen Pentium M mobo with just the GMA900 GPU, and about 3.9 times as much power when idling, I tend to use my PC most for the internet and for downloads, so CPU pressure isn't going to be high - and according to those charts the Pentium 4s consume less power than Athlon 64s when idling or in low use.
Anyway, price differences aren't going to be all that different because I still have to buy new RAM, and if the adaptor cards for Pentium Ms are any good I should be able to pick up a cheapo mobo.

Anyway, don't I need a 2K based Windows to make use of C&Q?

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

The GMA900 and even 950 are strictly last resort thing (company must buy a Dell, or you need a power efficient laptop). For any kind of gaming it's a cripple (competes with an R9200 at best (GMA950) and gets rocked by the GF4ti which are strong cards for this level. As wwas mentioned they also don't have dedicated vertex engine so they are somewhat limited.

The RS480 equipped MSI mobo would outperform it graphics wise if you must go with integrated for the short term, but most modern 4x/4xx generation add-in cards (even the SEs and TCs) will outperform any of the integrateds.

The RS480 performance would be about 85% of the GF4ti, and it's performance IMO would be way above either GMA.

Unfortunately you likely won't find a comparison between the GMA series and a GF4ti, as they just are in such completely different leagues of performance. Sure the GMA can 'display' DX9 effects, but really it's not a great performer in any games that focuse on them.

Here's how the newer more powerful GMA950 matches up to a GF6200TC (the lowest of the nV line);

<A HREF="http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1821808,00.asp" target="_new">http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1821808,00.asp</A>

Lotsa DNRs there.

For basic 2D, and the kind of 3D that longhorn will use simply for menus, it'll be fine, for gaming forget them despite our early enthusiasm games nowadays just need more.


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[ChipDeath]

A64s are great but I don't need that kind of performance. I'm just looking for a mid range machine that I can passively cool - or at least have a single, 7v wired low noise fan

The S939 A64 chips are downwards multiplier unlocked, so undervolting/underclocking would do what you want here.

An A64 at around 1Ghz and 1.1V or less would require very little to cool it, plus you get the option to clock it back up if you <i>do</i> ever need the extra power. On top of that you get 64-bit support and it costs less.

I can't really see a reason to not go that route myself. Overclocking A64s isn't very difficult really, but <i>underclocking</i> them is even easier.

[EDIT]
Incidentally, 1.1V is a figure plucked entirely out of thin air. I've never really bothered seeing how little VCore a 1Ghz A64 would need as I'm generally interested in the other end of the scale. And I don't know how low most A64 Mobos will go in terms of supported VCore (I know my old Socket A 8RDA+ wouldn't allow less than 1.4V, though obviously the newer boards will go lower than that)
[/EDIT]

---
<font color=red>"Life is <i>not</i> like a box of chocolates. It's more like a jar of jalapeńos - what you do today might burn your a<b></b>ss tommorrow."<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by ChipDeath on 07/05/05 06:38 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Shrub]

Thanks, yeah, I've just been considering underclocking. I've just knocked my Sempron 2200+ from 1.5Ghz to 0.9Ghz. I haven't decreased the voltage though so I don't think I'm really saving any power, but the CPU is running at 37°c on a 7v fan. I've never changed the voltage for a CPU before so is it usually safe to turn the voltage down?

Is an Athlon 3200+ worth considering? I think it's the highest 166Mhz Skt A chip available (may actually be 3000+ come to think of it). This way I wouldn't have to spend much money at all.

 

[Shrub]

Sorry, I know it's getting off topic, but I think it's my last question on this.

 

[Zoron]

Seems like a lot of effort to save a little money.

<font color=red> If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it. </font color=red>

 

[pauldh]

Don't do a Xp3200+. If you are going socket A, get yourself a mobile AXP. They are multiplier unlocked and can run at very low voltage. Plus they OC very well too. My mobile XP2500+ will do 2.6GHz on air. I have a second one that does 2.4Ghz, but I run it at stock speeds or lower in a quiet HTPC. There is also a <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103439" target="_new">2400+ that runs stock at 1.35V</A>.


<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=658042" target="_new">3DMark05</A> <A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=3781954" target="_new">3DMark03</A>

 

[Shrub]

I think I might have a problem anyway> MY mobo is a Jetway V2MDMP and it doesn't have any voltage switches or jumpers on it. In the BIOS there's an option to tweak voltages but it can only change the VCore from 1.5 to 1.6, and the same jump of 0.1v for the other settings

 

[ChipDeath]

I've never changed the voltage for a CPU before so is it usually safe to turn the voltage down?

Perfectly safe. When the voltage gets too low the PC will be unstable, but you have zero chance of frying any hardware (assuming everything works at stock speeds/volts) by lowering the voltage. dropping voltage will have a much more dramatic effect on heat output than lowering clockspeed.

There might be an outside chance of getting some HDD corruption from a crash, but this is no worse than if you had a power cut, or were overclocking (and as a reasonably experienced overclocker I can tell you this is <i>extremely</i> rare, especially with NTFS drives)

Looks like you have a motherboard with very limited overclocking options... So either replace it with a better Socket A motherboard and use your existing stuff, or upgrade mobo + CPU like discussed above.... Your call.

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[Crashman]

I've looked at it from quite a few angles, and the Pentium-M only seams viable for the desktop for people who can afford a decent card to put in the board.

I'd go Socket 939 with the Venice core, the extra 7W of heat is minimal. I'd use a huge cooler with an extremely slow fan, the thing can actually be cooled passively but I prefer to use a low speed fan.

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[Shrub]

ok, thanks guys. I'm looking into mobile athlons. I think my mobo can support them but the vcore settings are automatic. I'm not entirely sure if it'll find it's own optimum setting for underlocking or overclocking or whether or not it'll stay fixed at whatever voltage is "encoded" (better word please? lol) into the CPU itself.

I'm still fascinated by the Pentium M I'm not going to be updating my PC for a while yet, so prices may drop and new mobos and CPUs may appear.

 

[Guest]

Probably a good idea, Also if Jonah is in town(double core 65nm p-m) you might save a few $ or theyre might be better support for desktop with jonah(the last one being a guess really)









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