Hello Virgin?

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

I am now Fido-free.

I must have been a preferred customer because I waited
no more than a couple of minutes in the Q for service.

However the first drone would not allow me to cancel
my service and passed me on to another drone, likely
a *customer-retention* department.

I refused to answer the "but why?" question.
I only hinted that it might have something
to do with them being a Rogers company.
I didn't mention the successive price increases
I've had just in a few months for no extra service.

I'm looking forward to Sir Richard shaking up the
cell phone market. I think he might have the ability
to stir things up a bit and restore a bit of the
original Fido spirit to the mix.

Yes, I know Virgin is going to be a Bell re-seller
and will be partners with Bell. Maybe Bell will learn
something. Although it might be the hard way.


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39 answers Last reply
More about hello virgin
  1. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    > I'm looking forward to Sir Richard shaking up the
    > cell phone market. I think he might have the ability
    > to stir things up a bit and restore a bit of the
    > original Fido spirit to the mix.

    Doubt it.. check out
    http://www.virginmobile.ca/web/pages/pricesAndFeatures.html .. quite the the
    deal.. not :-/
  2. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    DogTired <fidoguy@fido.somewhere> wrote:
    > I refused to answer the "but why?" question.
    > I only hinted that it might have something
    > to do with them being a Rogers company.
    > I didn't mention the successive price increases
    > I've had just in a few months for no extra service.

    Why the heck not???

    You should have given them an earful.
  3. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 01:57:57 GMT, Kevin <kevin@nospam.invalid> wrote in
    news:d036j5$ppj$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca:

    > DogTired <fidoguy@fido.somewhere> wrote:
    >> I refused to answer the "but why?" question.
    >> I only hinted that it might have something
    >> to do with them being a Rogers company.
    >> I didn't mention the successive price increases
    >> I've had just in a few months for no extra service.
    >
    > Why the heck not???
    >
    > You should have given them an earful.

    I had made the decision to move elsewhere
    and they aren't paying me for my time.
    If I had wanted to strike a better deal or a
    new phone etc. maybe. All they were interested
    in was 'saving' a customer revenue stream, not
    why I was leaving.

    I asked the rhetorical question would
    they refund my Fido $s or
    give me an extra month and they said no.

    Instead I went with the tin cans and string package
    with caller ID. $0/month. I can only talk
    to my neighbour so I know who's calling.

    For wireless I'm going to wait for a PDA with WiFi and VoIP.
    I could turn blue waiting, but it's an option
    that makes better sense than a pure cell phone
    now that 95% of my communication is now email
    not voice.


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  4. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    malingerer@gmail.com wrote:
    > Doubt it.. check out
    > http://www.virginmobile.ca/web/pages/pricesAndFeatures.html .. quite the the
    > deal.. not :-/

    Not too bad. Cheaper than I'm paying now with Fido, I'm on their $20/200
    plan plus $6 for voice mail and call display, plus $6.95+0.50 for fees.

    So if I go with Virgin I could get their $25/month plan which gives you
    roughly 200 minutes a month, and that includes voicemail, call display,
    the system fees, and I get free long distance calling (well, 25 cents
    extra per call I guess) to boot.

    Not actually too bad. Of course, it is billing by the minute...
  5. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    Kevin <kevin@nospam.invalid> wrote:
    > the system fees, and I get free long distance calling (well, 25 cents
    > extra per call I guess) to boot.

    Oops, I misinterpreted. That's 25 cents per minute. Silly me.
  6. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    malingerer@gmail.com wrote:
    > Doubt it.. check out
    > http://www.virginmobile.ca/web/pages/pricesAndFeatures.html .. quite the the
    > deal.. not :-/

    Initial toughts:

    Pricing is good and comparable to Fido's, and in fact probably better
    than the 0.30 per minute Fido charges.

    Their phones are pathetic.

    No mention of billing by second or minute. on the above page, but on
    http://www.virginmobile.ca/web/pages/prices_features_02.htm
    they confirm billing by the minute.

    No mention of GPRS (or whatever proprietary equivalent on that CDMA
    thing). But there is mention you can download games.

    Advantages:
    caller ID and voice mail are included for free above what Fido offers.
    SMS is 0.10 to send and free to receive in canada and USA (both for SMS
    and email).

    Bad stuff:
    charged airtime for all call-forwarded minutes.
    $25 per minute for long distance, and that is a ripoff. Fido charges $0.10


    If Virgin had chosen GSM, I would be fare less reluctant to move to them.


    Now, the $25 monthly plan, will give you between:
    125 minutes if all are charged at 0.20 (use less than 5 minutes per day).
    245 minutes if you use them all up on the same day

    With certain usage patterns, this compares favourably with Fido's 200
    minutes for 26.95 (advertised as $20), especially if you add the $8.00
    for caller id and voice mail that you have to pay on Fido.


    The per minute rate when you've consumed all your bank mintes at 0.10
    beats Fido's monthly plans.
  7. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    > > Doubt it.. check out
    > > http://www.virginmobile.ca/web/pages/pricesAndFeatures.html .. quite the
    the
    > > deal.. not :-/
    >
    > Not too bad. Cheaper than I'm paying now with Fido, I'm on their $20/200
    > plan plus $6 for voice mail and call display, plus $6.95+0.50 for fees.
    >
    > So if I go with Virgin I could get their $25/month plan which gives you
    > roughly 200 minutes a month, and that includes voicemail, call display,
    > the system fees, and I get free long distance calling (well, 25 cents
    > extra per call I guess) to boot.
    >
    > Not actually too bad. Of course, it is billing by the minute...

    That does make a fair difference.. 40% I think?
  8. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    Kevin wrote:
    > the system fees, and I get free long distance calling (well, 25 cents
    > extra per call I guess) to boot.


    It isn't clear whether it is a flat fee or a per minute long distance
    rate. Somehow, I doubt it would be a flat fee.
  9. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    Congratulations. I'm 'Fido-free' as well. I hope everyone that goes
    Fido-free thanks to the new Fido writes to let us know.

    Who knows - perhaps if Virgin had negotiated a deal with Fido that
    would have satisfied the banks enough to keep them from selling it.
    Or perhaps Virgin did not pursue this option for the same reason (that
    they knew the banks owned it and could sell it, leaving them hung out
    to dry). In any case, they chose not to go GSM in Canada, and that's
    a shame.

    On the plus side, their prepaid prices are quite attractive, and you
    don't have to buy a phone from them, as their coverage includes Bell's
    extensive analog service area. Get yourself a cheap analog phone off
    of ebay and you're good to go. You'd still have to have to keep your
    gsm phone handy for when you travel, however.

    Hey, it's not much choice, but at least it's one more than there is in
    the Rogers-Telus-Bell Mob. And don't be fooled into thinking that
    there is a choice because there are still three wireless service
    providers left. You'll be seeing all of their prices going up over
    the next year, with longer contracts and higher handset prices as
    well.

    Someone earlier mentioned that they're waiting for one of the wireless
    providers in the US to offer free roaming in Canada and get a deal
    with them. If there was any chance of such a deal ever happening, it
    disappeared with Rogers takeover. A shame too, since the companies
    down there are beginning to offer obscene amounts of anytime minutes
    in their plans.

    DogTired <fidoguy@fido.somewhere> wrote in message news:<Xns960CBDBD56F09fidoguy@38.119.71.210>...
    > I am now Fido-free.
    >
    > I must have been a preferred customer because I waited
    > no more than a couple of minutes in the Q for service.
    >
    > However the first drone would not allow me to cancel
    > my service and passed me on to another drone, likely
    > a *customer-retention* department.
    >
    > I refused to answer the "but why?" question.
    > I only hinted that it might have something
    > to do with them being a Rogers company.
    > I didn't mention the successive price increases
    > I've had just in a few months for no extra service.
    >
    > I'm looking forward to Sir Richard shaking up the
    > cell phone market. I think he might have the ability
    > to stir things up a bit and restore a bit of the
    > original Fido spirit to the mix.
    >
    > Yes, I know Virgin is going to be a Bell re-seller
    > and will be partners with Bell. Maybe Bell will learn
    > something. Although it might be the hard way.
    >
    >
    > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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    > ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
  10. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    > > Doubt it.. check out
    > > http://www.virginmobile.ca/web/pages/pricesAndFeatures.html .. quite the
    the
    > > deal.. not :-/
    >
    > Initial toughts:
    >
    > Pricing is good and comparable to Fido's, and in fact probably better
    > than the 0.30 per minute Fido charges.

    FIDO prepaid can be as cheap as .15/minute, see
    http://www.fido.ca/portal/en/packages/prepaid.shtml
  11. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    "JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
    1109752887.c45a4c7cac85d9fca6856acb4a911a30@teranews...
    > malingerer@gmail.com wrote:
    >> Doubt it.. check out
    >> http://www.virginmobile.ca/web/pages/pricesAndFeatures.html .. quite the
    >> the
    >> deal.. not :-/
    >
    > Initial toughts:
    >
    > Pricing is good and comparable to Fido's, and in fact probably better
    > than the 0.30 per minute Fido charges.
    >

    Yes but with fido prepaid you can get the 0.15 anytime ot the 0.40/0.05
    night-we plan which is better.

    The main advantage of virgin is the 120 days expiration date. But they will
    not make a lot of money from that. And the have to pay bell bandits for the
    use of their network.

    > Their phones are pathetic.
    >
    > No mention of billing by second or minute. on the above page, but on
    > http://www.virginmobile.ca/web/pages/prices_features_02.htm
    > they confirm billing by the minute.
    >
    > No mention of GPRS (or whatever proprietary equivalent on that CDMA
    > thing). But there is mention you can download games.
    >
    > Advantages:
    > caller ID and voice mail are included for free above what Fido offers.
    > SMS is 0.10 to send and free to receive in canada and USA (both for SMS
    > and email).
    >
    > Bad stuff:
    > charged airtime for all call-forwarded minutes.
    > $25 per minute for long distance, and that is a ripoff. Fido charges $0.10
    >

    Yes, but better than bell 0.35!! Fido is the only normal priced LD in
    wireless. I don't think the users of these phone will do a lot of LD
    anyway.

    >
    > If Virgin had chosen GSM, I would be fare less reluctant to move to them.
    >
    For what? Since you can't use these outside canada it dosen't matter. The
    sound will be a little worse that's all. Anyway for the teenager in the
    night club (the target market if I look at the ads) he is probably already
    deaf :) The only real advantage would be the use of a unlocked phone.

    >
    > Now, the $25 monthly plan, will give you between:
    > 125 minutes if all are charged at 0.20 (use less than 5 minutes per day).
    > 245 minutes if you use them all up on the same day
    >
    > With certain usage patterns, this compares favourably with Fido's 200
    > minutes for 26.95 (advertised as $20), especially if you add the $8.00
    > for caller id and voice mail that you have to pay on Fido.
    >
    >
    > The per minute rate when you've consumed all your bank mintes at 0.10
    > beats Fido's monthly plans.

    Don't forget you need to buy a phone at 100-250 + tax since no other phone
    will work. With a fido plan you can get a 0-100$ phone in contract. This
    save you 5-10$/ month.

    The 25$ is the best deal with them with the low user prepaid also. Is a
    good deal for some user, but not a revolution.
  12. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 15:38:19 GMT, "Blandine"
    <blandinebigard@hotmail.com> wrote:


    >
    >>
    >> If Virgin had chosen GSM, I would be fare less reluctant to move to them.
    >>
    >For what? Since you can't use these outside canada it dosen't matter. The
    >sound will be a little worse that's all. Anyway for the teenager in the
    >night club (the target market if I look at the ads) he is probably already
    >deaf :) The only real advantage would be the use of a unlocked phone.
    >

    ??? You can't use GSM phones outside of Canada??

    That is sure a surprise to my GSM phone that has been working in most
    every country I've been to in the past 5 years.

    Please don't let Fido know that their GSM phones don't work outside of
    Canada.
  13. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 09:42:23 -0700, bob Suruncle <cat@the.litter.box>
    wrote:

    >On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 15:38:19 GMT, "Blandine"
    ><blandinebigard@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>
    >>>
    >>> If Virgin had chosen GSM, I would be fare less reluctant to move to them.
    >>>
    >>For what? Since you can't use these outside canada it dosen't matter. The
    >>sound will be a little worse that's all. Anyway for the teenager in the
    >>night club (the target market if I look at the ads) he is probably already
    >>deaf :) The only real advantage would be the use of a unlocked phone.
    >>
    >
    >??? You can't use GSM phones outside of Canada??
    >
    >That is sure a surprise to my GSM phone that has been working in most
    >every country I've been to in the past 5 years.
    >
    >Please don't let Fido know that their GSM phones don't work outside of
    >Canada.

    Make that you cannot use Fido prepaid outside of Canada. Of course
    you can use GSM outside of Canada, but only with either another
    service or with monthly Fido service.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
  14. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    <snip>
    > If Virgin had chosen GSM, I would be fare less reluctant to move to them.

    It wouldn't have made marketing sense for Virgin to go with GSM in
    Canada now. That's because in the US, Virgin uses the Sprint PCS
    network, which is exclusively CDMA. It would cause too much consumer
    confusion.

    I do agree that Virgin should have gone with GSM instead of CDMA.
    However, when Virgin launched, GSM coverage was still spider web-like in
    the US.

    On another note, I think it's too bad that Vodafone didn't end up with
    both AT&T Wireless and Fido. They would have made nice additions to the
    Vodafone family.

    TH
  15. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    <snip>

    > Someone earlier mentioned that they're waiting for one of the wireless
    > providers in the US to offer free roaming in Canada and get a deal
    > with them. If there was any chance of such a deal ever happening, it
    > disappeared with Rogers takeover. A shame too, since the companies
    > down there are beginning to offer obscene amounts of anytime minutes
    > in their plans.


    Actually that's been known to happen with at least 2.5 US carriers.

    AT&T Wireless, probably because it owned an interest in Rogers Wireless,
    offered "North American Package" add-ons where for 9.99/month/phone you
    would eliminate long distance to Canada and roaming charges in Canada.
    You would still have access to night and weekend minutes while in Canada.

    Cingular offers a true North American GSM plan with coverage extended to
    Mexico and parts of the Caribbean (this plan is not advertised, but is
    available upon request.) Night/weekend and mobile to mobile minutes are
    NOT available.

    Verizon Wireless, which owns interest in Telus, offers "North America's
    Choice", which is the AMPS/CDMA version of the Cingular plan.

    I live in the United States right now and will be moving back to Canada,
    and I will never give up the plan I have (legacy AT&T Wireless plan).
    Here's the breakdown:

    59.99 1100 Anytime Minutes
    0.00 Unlimited Night/Weekend Minutes (starting at 7pm)
    0.00 Unlimited Mobile to Mobile (Cingular/AT&T Wireless customers)
    9.99 North American Package (primary line)
    9.99 Second Line added
    9.99 North American Package (second line)
    0.00 Digital features (3way, call display, voicemail, limited data
    usage, free incoming text/e-mail messages)
    Plus, I get a generous monthly discount because of my employer.

    I have my parents set up with the second phone (who live right along the
    border), and with no roaming or long distance charges, it's great. They
    don't have to worry about whether the phone is picking up a US or a
    Canadian tower, and I don't have to worry about long distance charges to
    Canada. I was also given a free Motorola V505 and LG L1150. (1 year
    contract for each phone, which I thought was reasonable since they are
    nice phones, and I'll keep this plan for years to come).

    I had to call them for something or other that was really minor, and
    they asked if I'd be interested in Cingular's North American plan, and I
    said "No!" I think it's something like 59.99 for 400 minutes (no
    night/weekend, no mobile to mobile, and no option to add a second line).
    I think Verizon's is priced similarly.

    I'm now grandfathered in and they can't take the plan away as long as I
    don't switch and pay my montly bills. I told them they could have my
    plan when they pry my phone from my dead lifeless body.

    TH
  16. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    "bob Suruncle" <cat@the.litter.box> a écrit dans le message de news:
    22rb2157b1e6m0egovuiqpoqhknbq2848g@4ax.com...
    > On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 15:38:19 GMT, "Blandine"
    > <blandinebigard@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>
    >>>
    >>> If Virgin had chosen GSM, I would be fare less reluctant to move to
    >>> them.
    >>>
    >>For what? Since you can't use these outside canada it dosen't matter.
    >>The
    >>sound will be a little worse that's all. Anyway for the teenager in the
    >>night club (the target market if I look at the ads) he is probably already
    >>deaf :) The only real advantage would be the use of a unlocked phone.
    >>
    >
    > ??? You can't use GSM phones outside of Canada??
    >
    > That is sure a surprise to my GSM phone that has been working in most
    > every country I've been to in the past 5 years.
    >
    > Please don't let Fido know that their GSM phones don't work outside of
    > Canada.
    >

    We talked about a prepaid service here. No prepaid can be used outside
    canada. So you need to unlock your phone and buy a foreign SIM to use it.
    Not the typical patern of the targeted virgin client. Note that some
    european prepaid can be used outside their home country. So it's possible
    but, as usual, we late here in Canada.
  17. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    Blandine wrote:
    > We talked about a prepaid service here. No prepaid can be used outside
    > canada.

    Virgin's web site says their phones can be used in canada USA. (same
    price, no roaming fees, but of course, you pay the exhorbitant long
    distance fees).
  18. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    I currently live in the US as well. Initially, I was with Sprint - I
    wanted a cell phone for emergency use and at the time, didn't consider
    prepaid. When I ended up moving to NH from California, I found
    Sprint's coverage very poor but had to wait a year to get out of my
    contract.

    I discovered Virgin Mobile USA quite by accident, and I haven't looked
    back. Sprint had advertised that my phone would work in Canada - it
    didn't. Now, I am paying about $80 US per yr for my cell phone versus
    the $480 I was paying Sprint. (and no I don't work for Virgin)

    The next time I am up in Canada, I will buy one of Virgin's phones to
    use while I am travelling. Its a good deal as well. $15 Cdn to top
    up every 4 months....that's only $75/yr for a phone that you may not
    use all the time. I probably wouldn't do the $25/month plan, I hardly
    use my cell phone as it is.

    But that's just my 2 cents. :) Also, its too bad that North American
    cell phone companies can't mimic the policies offered in some European
    countries. I know one person who has to only put money on their phone
    like once a year and their plan is "active".
  19. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    In article <6212bd00.0503020819.23a01bac@posting.google.com>,
    sbdot@mailandnews.com (sbdot) wrote:

    > Congratulations. I'm 'Fido-free' as well. I hope everyone that goes
    > Fido-free thanks to the new Fido writes to let us know.

    I plan to do this before I go overseas next month. Previously, I've just
    put the account on the cheapest available plan. I'll miss GSM.

    --
    Steven Fisher; sdfisher@spamcop.net
    "Morituri Nolumus Mori."
  20. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    > Advantages:
    > caller ID and voice mail are included for free above what Fido
    offers.
    > SMS is 0.10 to send and free to receive in canada and USA (both for
    SMS
    > and email).


    Caller ID is still free for Fido prepaid. Not
    positive about voice mail but I think Fido prepaid
    charges airtime even if you retrieve your messages
    from a landline.

    Virgin says it is $0.20 to send SMSes internationally.
    Has anyone tried to send to a GSM phone overseas or
    heard of anyone doing it on Bell? Last I heard
    (which was years ago), the intercarrier thing was
    just for CA/US.
  21. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    Yep, it sure was a technical problem. The phone ended up being the
    "technical problem". When I was ending my Sprint service their
    customer service noted my sprint cell phone was analog only - so in
    Mississauga, I ended up with sporadic coverage. Very irritating,
    especially since I had explicitly asked about digital pcs when I bought
    the phone.

    At least when I switched to Virgin, I know what I was getting into.
    You pay for what you use. Trust me there are times where I go for
    months without using my phone and at $6-7 USD is a cell phone bill I
    can handle :)

    Can't wait to buy my Cdn Virgin Mobile phone when I can. :)
  22. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    <ptms123@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:1109890856.366851.3190@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
    > I discovered Virgin Mobile USA quite by accident, and I haven't looked
    > back. Sprint had advertised that my phone would work in Canada - it
    > didn't.

    Sounds like a technical problem. Sprint roams on Bell, Telus, Aliant,
    SaskTel and MTS in Canada. A friend from Tampa who uses Sprint can use his
    phone here in Saskatchewan without difficulty. Should have phoned Sprint.
    :)

    I agree that Virgin Mobile is a good deal for cross-border users, though.

    Jim
  23. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    <ptms123@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:1109949710.312276.137260@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
    > Yep, it sure was a technical problem. The phone ended up being the
    > "technical problem". When I was ending my Sprint service their
    > customer service noted my sprint cell phone was analog only - so in
    > Mississauga, I ended up with sporadic coverage. Very irritating,
    > especially since I had explicitly asked about digital pcs when I bought
    > the phone.

    Weird. There is 1.9 GHz Telus and Bell service in Mississauga. Even if
    your phone didn't support 800 MHz CDMA digital service, it shouldn't have
    horribly mattered unless you were here in Saskatchewan (where we only have
    1.9 GHz in the "big" cities and the rural coverage is all 800 MHz CDMA and
    analog).

    Jim
  24. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    > But that's just my 2 cents. :) Also, its too bad that North American
    > cell phone companies can't mimic the policies offered in some European
    > countries. I know one person who has to only put money on their phone
    > like once a year and their plan is "active".

    In some ways, it's good, because it doesn't cost an exhorbitant amount
    of money to CALL a mobile in Canada.

    TH
  25. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 22:59:43 +0000, Tropical Haven wrote:

    >> But that's just my 2 cents. :) Also, its too bad that North American
    >> cell phone companies can't mimic the policies offered in some European
    >> countries. I know one person who has to only put money on their phone
    >> like once a year and their plan is "active".
    >
    > In some ways, it's good, because it doesn't cost an exhorbitant amount of
    > money to CALL a mobile in Canada.

    Umm, actually the European system makes MUCH more sense.

    Why should I, a cell phone owner, pay for a telemarketer to call me?? The
    whole concept is silly.

    In Europe they have a caller pays system: you know what you're calling,
    you're choosing to pay for the call. The cell phone owner is NEVER charged
    for something they never initiate.

    Oh, and the cost is NOT exorbitant, usually calling a cell phone from a
    land line costs less then the cell phone to call the landline.

    TTYL
  26. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    In message <pan.2005.03.05.04.20.31.274155@yahoo.com> repatch
    <repatch42@yahoo.com> wrote:

    >On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 22:59:43 +0000, Tropical Haven wrote:
    >
    >>> But that's just my 2 cents. :) Also, its too bad that North American
    >>> cell phone companies can't mimic the policies offered in some European
    >>> countries. I know one person who has to only put money on their phone
    >>> like once a year and their plan is "active".
    >>
    >> In some ways, it's good, because it doesn't cost an exhorbitant amount of
    >> money to CALL a mobile in Canada.
    >
    >Umm, actually the European system makes MUCH more sense.
    >
    >Why should I, a cell phone owner, pay for a telemarketer to call me?? The
    >whole concept is silly.
    >
    >In Europe they have a caller pays system: you know what you're calling,
    >you're choosing to pay for the call. The cell phone owner is NEVER charged
    >for something they never initiate.

    Funny -- I'm in Canada I never get charged for an incoming call I don't
    want to pay for. If I'm not willing to accept the charges, I don't
    answer the phone.

    That being said, while I see your position, I also disagree with it.
    Why should the caller pay more because I choose to use a cellphone
    rather then a landline?


    --
    Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill?
  27. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 23:20:31 -0500, repatch <repatch42@yahoo.com>
    wrote:

    >Umm, actually the European system makes MUCH more sense.
    >
    >Why should I, a cell phone owner, pay for a telemarketer to call me?? The
    >whole concept is silly.

    It's against the law for telemarketers to call cell phones.

    >In Europe they have a caller pays system: you know what you're calling,
    >you're choosing to pay for the call. The cell phone owner is NEVER charged
    >for something they never initiate.

    Yeah, and the caller to the mobile phone will sometimes pay ten times
    as much to call a mobile phone as to call a regular number. The
    caller to the mobile number has no say what he pays he'll pay the
    tarriffed rate.

    >Oh, and the cost is NOT exorbitant, usually calling a cell phone from a
    >land line costs less then the cell phone to call the landline.

    What planet are you on? It's exorbitant to call a cell phone from a
    land line or a phone on another network. Why do you think SMS is so
    popular in Europe and Asia? It's because voice calls are
    prohibitively expensive during the day.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
  28. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    > Umm, actually the European system makes MUCH more sense.
    >
    > Why should I, a cell phone owner, pay for a telemarketer to call me?? The
    > whole concept is silly.
    >
    > In Europe they have a caller pays system: you know what you're calling,
    > you're choosing to pay for the call. The cell phone owner is NEVER charged
    > for something they never initiate.
    >
    > Oh, and the cost is NOT exorbitant, usually calling a cell phone from a
    > land line costs less then the cell phone to call the landline.

    But that also opens up other issues, such as compatibility with number
    portability. The technology is there, it's mandated in the United
    States. Eventually, I think Canada's system will be similar to that of
    the United States, where there are plans that incur no roaming or long
    distance charges to calls to/from Canada. Part of the problem may lie
    in the fact that Canada faces a much larger area to cover, and fewer
    subscribers to recoup the costs of building the network.

    TH
  29. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    > That being said, while I see your position, I also disagree with it.
    > Why should the caller pay more because I choose to use a cellphone
    > rather then a landline?


    Take that up with the phone companies. Not sure WHY they have
    different rates (1 for landline phone #s, and 1 for cellular).
    Personally, I think its just an excuse to get more $$....but I am just
    the little guy.

    Anyway, as for Europe, I think its T-Mobile I am thinking of, would
    offer free incoming and roaming where your country of residence is in
    (or where your cell phone is) and depedning on how much money you have
    in your account. As soon as you went into another cellular area, then
    you'd have to PAY. This would be true like some of the plans in the US
    - i.e. Verizon, where as soon as you "roam" out of their area, then you
    are charged more. I vaguely remembering having to pay like $1.95/min
    for roaming charges when I used my Clearnet phone in the US 5 years ago
    or so.

    Text messaging is big in Europe as well - and I think the cheaper plan
    of them all, but I haven't come across a text messaging as an only
    option plan here in North America....probably not as big yet, or
    viable? Unless, Blackberry will be moving in at this point.

    ---> Just my $0.02.
  30. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    ptms123@yahoo.com wrote:
    > Text messaging is big in Europe as well

    Its big because everyone is GSM and GSM had internetwork connectivity
    very early on.

    Remember that CDMA and the now defunct TDMA networks didn't get SMS for
    a long long time. And they didn't ever dare call it "SMS", because they
    underestimate customers in north america, so they used "text messaging"
    which just isn't the same as what everyone else uses in the world.
  31. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 01:00:24 -0700, DevilsPGD wrote:

    > Funny -- I'm in Canada I never get charged for an incoming call I don't
    > want to pay for. If I'm not willing to accept the charges, I don't answer
    > the phone.

    Not always an option. For example, what if you don't have CID (considering
    the insane amounts most companies want for CID). What about a person who
    uses their phone for business call, how do you differentiate a possible
    customer from a telemarketer? What about if you're expecting a call back
    for an interview or something? There are LOTS of cases where the average
    person could easily be dinged.

    > That being said, while I see your position, I also disagree with it. Why
    > should the caller pay more because I choose to use a cellphone rather
    > then a landline?

    Because it costs more. At least you, as the caller, HAVE the option to
    call or not to call. As I just demonstrated there are MANY cases where the
    receiver has no choice, they must pick up, and get dinged... (oh, and most
    if not all of Europe has billing at 6 second or 1 second increments, they
    don't even know what "per minute" billing is...)
  32. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 15:12:48 -0800, Joseph wrote:

    > On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 23:20:31 -0500, repatch <repatch42@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >
    >>Umm, actually the European system makes MUCH more sense.
    >>
    >>Why should I, a cell phone owner, pay for a telemarketer to call me?? The
    >>whole concept is silly.
    >
    > It's against the law for telemarketers to call cell phones.

    Hehe, right, and that stops them, right? Sorry, but I've gotten quite a
    few telemarketers on my cell phone (and even more direct to voice mail),
    often calling with no CID info, so no way to trace them...

    >>In Europe they have a caller pays system: you know what you're calling,
    >>you're choosing to pay for the call. The cell phone owner is NEVER
    >>charged for something they never initiate.
    >
    > Yeah, and the caller to the mobile phone will sometimes pay ten times as
    > much to call a mobile phone as to call a regular number. The caller to
    > the mobile number has no say what he pays he'll pay the tarriffed rate.

    Actually he/she does have a say, most landline providers offer a variety
    of packages when it comes to tarrifs, and the tarrifs I saw to mobiles
    were quite reasonable.

    >>Oh, and the cost is NOT exorbitant, usually calling a cell phone from a
    >>land line costs less then the cell phone to call the landline.
    >
    > What planet are you on? It's exorbitant to call a cell phone from a
    > land line or a phone on another network.

    Compared to calling another landline? Yes. Compared to calling a landline
    with a cell? Nope. You just have to get your head around it. Once you do
    you'll find it's actually MORE logical then what we've got. For example,
    as a cell phone user I call another cell phone user here on the same
    network. I get charged to call, the receiver gets charged to receive, all
    on the same network.

    Now consider most of Europe: calling another cell phone on the same
    network is about the same price as calling a landline, the receiver pays
    nothing, notice how all of a sudden it's 1/2 the price?

    Remember, whether the receiver pays or the caller pays the costs are the
    same, the difference is the caller has a CHOICE on whether to pay or not,
    the receiver does not. In the end the phone bills are going to be the
    same, just distributed in a slightly different fashion.

    > Why do you think SMS is so
    > popular in Europe and Asia?

    Because they did the right thing from the start: they decided on ONE
    standard, and ensured SMSing from one provider to another was NO big deal.
    Oh, that, and they NEVER charged to RECEIVE SMSs (which many providers in
    NA have done from time to time, and I'm sure still do in some cases).

    > It's because voice calls are prohibitively
    > expensive during the day. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Sorry, sounds like you haven't BEEN to Europe recently, or at least the
    areas you're familiar with are a little yesterday in pricing.

    Calling on a cell phone in Europe is roughly the same price as here. In
    some cases the per minute is more expensive on paper, but then you must
    factor that taxes are INCLUDED, and it's per second (vs. the per minute of
    most of NA). Add to that: receiving calls is ALWAYS free and the price
    comes to about the same, even cheaper in some cases (i.e. GPRS data is
    VERY cheap in some areas, compared to the joke we have in NA).
  33. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    "repatch" <repatch42@yahoo.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
    pan.2005.03.07.03.07.55.970227@yahoo.com...
    > On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 15:12:48 -0800, Joseph wrote:
    >
    >> On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 23:20:31 -0500, repatch <repatch42@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Umm, actually the European system makes MUCH more sense.
    >>>
    >>>Why should I, a cell phone owner, pay for a telemarketer to call me?? The
    >>>whole concept is silly.
    >>
    >> It's against the law for telemarketers to call cell phones.
    >
    > Hehe, right, and that stops them, right? Sorry, but I've gotten quite a
    > few telemarketers on my cell phone (and even more direct to voice mail),
    > often calling with no CID info, so no way to trace them...
    >
    >>>In Europe they have a caller pays system: you know what you're calling,
    >>>you're choosing to pay for the call. The cell phone owner is NEVER
    >>>charged for something they never initiate.
    >>
    >> Yeah, and the caller to the mobile phone will sometimes pay ten times as
    >> much to call a mobile phone as to call a regular number. The caller to
    >> the mobile number has no say what he pays he'll pay the tarriffed rate.
    >
    > Actually he/she does have a say, most landline providers offer a variety
    > of packages when it comes to tarrifs, and the tarrifs I saw to mobiles
    > were quite reasonable.
    >
    >>>Oh, and the cost is NOT exorbitant, usually calling a cell phone from a
    >>>land line costs less then the cell phone to call the landline.
    >>
    >> What planet are you on? It's exorbitant to call a cell phone from a
    >> land line or a phone on another network.
    >
    > Compared to calling another landline? Yes. Compared to calling a landline
    > with a cell? Nope. You just have to get your head around it. Once you do
    > you'll find it's actually MORE logical then what we've got. For example,
    > as a cell phone user I call another cell phone user here on the same
    > network. I get charged to call, the receiver gets charged to receive, all
    > on the same network.
    >
    > Now consider most of Europe: calling another cell phone on the same
    > network is about the same price as calling a landline, the receiver pays
    > nothing, notice how all of a sudden it's 1/2 the price?
    >
    > Remember, whether the receiver pays or the caller pays the costs are the
    > same, the difference is the caller has a CHOICE on whether to pay or not,
    > the receiver does not. In the end the phone bills are going to be the
    > same, just distributed in a slightly different fashion.
    >
    >> Why do you think SMS is so
    >> popular in Europe and Asia?
    >
    > Because they did the right thing from the start: they decided on ONE
    > standard, and ensured SMSing from one provider to another was NO big deal.
    > Oh, that, and they NEVER charged to RECEIVE SMSs (which many providers in
    > NA have done from time to time, and I'm sure still do in some cases).
    >
    >> It's because voice calls are prohibitively
    >> expensive during the
    >> day. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    >
    > Sorry, sounds like you haven't BEEN to Europe recently, or at least the
    > areas you're familiar with are a little yesterday in pricing.
    >
    > Calling on a cell phone in Europe is roughly the same price as here. In
    > some cases the per minute is more expensive on paper, but then you must
    > factor that taxes are INCLUDED, and it's per second (vs. the per minute of
    > most of NA). Add to that: receiving calls is ALWAYS free and the price
    > comes to about the same, even cheaper in some cases (i.e. GPRS data is
    > VERY cheap in some areas, compared to the joke we have in NA).
    >

    Yes and this system almost force you to own a cell phone since the calls to
    another cells are included in your package. If you don't own one, you pay
    exorbitant rates to call them from a landline. As more people has one, the
    more of your freinds are only reacheable with a cell, the more you need one.
    Great for the cell companies.

    Remember also than in europe pepole are used to pay for a call. You pay for
    every local call from a landline. Also the 1-800 lines are rares at least
    in france where you need to pay for reaching customer service of an internet
    provider or a... cell pnone company! Try to do that here and you will loose
    all of your clients.
  34. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 15:27:16 +0000, Blandine wrote:
    > Yes and this system almost force you to own a cell phone since the calls
    > to another cells are included in your package. If you don't own one, you
    > pay exorbitant rates to call them from a landline. As more people has
    > one, the more of your freinds are only reacheable with a cell, the more
    > you need one. Great for the cell companies.
    >
    > Remember also than in europe pepole are used to pay for a call. You pay
    > for every local call from a landline. Also the 1-800 lines are rares at
    > least in france where you need to pay for reaching customer service of an
    > internet provider or a... cell pnone company! Try to do that here and you
    > will loose all of your clients.

    I've heard this "they are used to paying" excuse before, and sorry, it
    just doesn't fly, for two reasons:

    1: Cell phone costs are about the same as here, most cell phone bills I've
    seen in Europe (which right there is rare since prepaid is actually VERY
    common over there, even business people use prepaid, it doesn't have the
    stigma it has here) are about the same as your average bill here. If
    "they're used to paying" but the amount they're paying is the same as us,
    what difference does it make?

    2: Yes, they pay for all local calls, but if you actually do the
    math the costs again are about the same. Why? Well their monthly charges
    are FAR less. For example, for one telco I'm aware of the monthly charge
    for landline service is 7Euro. ~$11/month. Oh, and that, of course,
    includes tax. You can pay more a month if you want lower tariffs, but that
    only makes sense if you make ALOT of calls. Ahh, but they pay for every
    call right? Right. You know what the average monthly bill I've seen is?
    About the same as here. In fact one bill I'm very familiar with is
    always less then 20 Euro a month (~$30/month, INCLUDING tax), and that
    INCLUDES quite a few overseas calls.

    People often think of Europe as expensive, and it can be. There is no
    doubt that certain items ARE more expensive. But if you remember that
    almost every price in Europe INCLUDES tax then things aren't so black and
    white. And there ARE certain areas where Europe is FAR cheaper. Things
    like cheese, cold cuts and bakery items are often FAR cheaper then what we
    have here, and often much better quality.

    And don't get me started with alcohol and how we are RIPPED over here...
  35. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    Incoming calls is not the issue for most people since people can generally
    not answer the phone if they are afraid of the charge and they don't have
    CID. The issue for most people is getting charged for SMS messages. With SMS
    messages, you automatically pay when you receive it. There is no way around
    it. At least with incoming calls, you can choose to not pick up the phone if
    you don't want to pay for the call. With SMS, this isn't possible. That is
    why I called Fido and told them that I wanted them to only allow for network
    SMS messages (i.e. minute minder messages, voice mail notification messages,
    etc.). Unscrupulous telemarkers/spammers can spam you with SMS messages and
    you are forced to pay for them regardless of what you do if your phone is
    on.


    "repatch" <repatch42@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:pan.2005.03.07.02.57.40.439682@yahoo.com...
    > On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 01:00:24 -0700, DevilsPGD wrote:
    >
    > > Funny -- I'm in Canada I never get charged for an incoming call I don't
    > > want to pay for. If I'm not willing to accept the charges, I don't
    answer
    > > the phone.
    >
    > Not always an option. For example, what if you don't have CID (considering
    > the insane amounts most companies want for CID). What about a person who
    > uses their phone for business call, how do you differentiate a possible
    > customer from a telemarketer? What about if you're expecting a call back
    > for an interview or something? There are LOTS of cases where the average
    > person could easily be dinged.
    >
    > > That being said, while I see your position, I also disagree with it. Why
    > > should the caller pay more because I choose to use a cellphone rather
    > > then a landline?
    >
    > Because it costs more. At least you, as the caller, HAVE the option to
    > call or not to call. As I just demonstrated there are MANY cases where the
    > receiver has no choice, they must pick up, and get dinged... (oh, and most
    > if not all of Europe has billing at 6 second or 1 second increments, they
    > don't even know what "per minute" billing is...)
  36. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 23:22:09 -0500, "Harry Eugene Ly"
    <consumers-get-bad-service@big-f*-companies.com> wrote:

    >Incoming calls is not the issue for most people since people can generally
    >not answer the phone if they are afraid of the charge and they don't have
    >CID. The issue for most people is getting charged for SMS messages. With SMS
    >messages, you automatically pay when you receive it.

    Fido no longer charges for SMS received. However, there is a charge
    for SMS that originated form their web site.
  37. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 11:28:32 GMT, Ototin <bangsit@balay.ca> wrote in
    news:8u2r21dc5pcrkajj23qo9drbu5il9ns8ra@4ax.com:

    > On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 23:22:09 -0500, "Harry Eugene Ly"
    > <consumers-get-bad-service@big-f*-companies.com> wrote:
    >
    >>Incoming calls is not the issue for most people since people can
    >>generally not answer the phone if they are afraid of the charge and
    >>they don't have CID. The issue for most people is getting charged for
    >>SMS messages. With SMS messages, you automatically pay when you
    >>receive it.
    >
    > Fido no longer charges for SMS received. However, there is a charge
    > for SMS that originated form their web site.

    I suspect that phone-to-phone SMS received are free.
    Anything received from a source other than another phone
    or Fido *promotional* SMS messages are likely charged.
    I never bothered to check that since they changed
    the policy, so someone else will have to confirm that.

    Most of my communications is now email.
    Receiving a filtered version of my email
    traffic to my phone at a *reasonable* rate would have
    kept me as a customer. I remember back when I used to
    forward important emails to the phone. It was very
    handy and convenient. But it became too expensive.


    ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
    http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
    ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
  38. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    Sorry but that is what I meant. I know that phone SMS messages are free but
    anything other than a phone SMS costs money to receive it and I also believe
    that there is no way of differentiating this and refusing anything other
    than phone SMS messages and Fido generated SMS messages. The only option
    that Fido gave me was to turn off SMS all together (but I still get Fido
    generated SMS messages such as voice mail notification and minute minder
    warnings as well as the very infrequent Fido promotional SMS). The moment
    someone decides to send you an SMS via a computer or via a chat window, you
    automatically get charged. There is no way of refusing this "call" by not
    picking it up like you can do with a phone call.


    "DogTired" <fidoguy@fido.somewhere> wrote in message
    news:Xns96138AEA27A9Cfidoguy@38.119.71.210...
    > On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 11:28:32 GMT, Ototin <bangsit@balay.ca> wrote in
    > news:8u2r21dc5pcrkajj23qo9drbu5il9ns8ra@4ax.com:
    >
    > > On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 23:22:09 -0500, "Harry Eugene Ly"
    > > <consumers-get-bad-service@big-f*-companies.com> wrote:
    > >
    > >>Incoming calls is not the issue for most people since people can
    > >>generally not answer the phone if they are afraid of the charge and
    > >>they don't have CID. The issue for most people is getting charged for
    > >>SMS messages. With SMS messages, you automatically pay when you
    > >>receive it.
    > >
    > > Fido no longer charges for SMS received. However, there is a charge
    > > for SMS that originated form their web site.
    >
    > I suspect that phone-to-phone SMS received are free.
    > Anything received from a source other than another phone
    > or Fido *promotional* SMS messages are likely charged.
    > I never bothered to check that since they changed
    > the policy, so someone else will have to confirm that.
    >
    > Most of my communications is now email.
    > Receiving a filtered version of my email
    > traffic to my phone at a *reasonable* rate would have
    > kept me as a customer. I remember back when I used to
    > forward important emails to the phone. It was very
    > handy and convenient. But it became too expensive.
    >
    >
    > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
    News==----
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    Newsgroups
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  39. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

    repatch <repatch42@yahoo.com> wrote:

    > Hehe, right, and that stops them, right? Sorry, but I've gotten quite
    > a few telemarketers on my cell phone (and even more direct to voice
    > mail), often calling with no CID info, so no way to trace them...

    What's even more pathetic, as you can't even BLOCK "private" numbers from
    calling your cellphone like you can on a land line. Your number gets into the
    wrong hands, your doomed.

    --
    -=-=-=-=-

    Remove the "dogface" to reply via email.
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