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Anonymous
March 1, 2005 8:41:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

I am now Fido-free.

I must have been a preferred customer because I waited
no more than a couple of minutes in the Q for service.

However the first drone would not allow me to cancel
my service and passed me on to another drone, likely
a *customer-retention* department.

I refused to answer the "but why?" question.
I only hinted that it might have something
to do with them being a Rogers company.
I didn't mention the successive price increases
I've had just in a few months for no extra service.

I'm looking forward to Sir Richard shaking up the
cell phone market. I think he might have the ability
to stir things up a bit and restore a bit of the
original Fido spirit to the mix.

Yes, I know Virgin is going to be a Bell re-seller
and will be partners with Bell. Maybe Bell will learn
something. Although it might be the hard way.


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More about : virgin

Anonymous
March 2, 2005 4:48:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

> I'm looking forward to Sir Richard shaking up the
> cell phone market. I think he might have the ability
> to stir things up a bit and restore a bit of the
> original Fido spirit to the mix.

Doubt it.. check out
http://www.virginmobile.ca/web/pages/pricesAndFeatures.... .. quite the the
deal.. not :-/
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 4:57:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

DogTired <fidoguy@fido.somewhere> wrote:
> I refused to answer the "but why?" question.
> I only hinted that it might have something
> to do with them being a Rogers company.
> I didn't mention the successive price increases
> I've had just in a few months for no extra service.

Why the heck not???

You should have given them an earful.
Related resources
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 4:57:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 01:57:57 GMT, Kevin <kevin@nospam.invalid> wrote in
news:D 036j5$ppj$1@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca:

> DogTired <fidoguy@fido.somewhere> wrote:
>> I refused to answer the "but why?" question.
>> I only hinted that it might have something
>> to do with them being a Rogers company.
>> I didn't mention the successive price increases
>> I've had just in a few months for no extra service.
>
> Why the heck not???
>
> You should have given them an earful.

I had made the decision to move elsewhere
and they aren't paying me for my time.
If I had wanted to strike a better deal or a
new phone etc. maybe. All they were interested
in was 'saving' a customer revenue stream, not
why I was leaving.

I asked the rhetorical question would
they refund my Fido $s or
give me an extra month and they said no.

Instead I went with the tin cans and string package
with caller ID. $0/month. I can only talk
to my neighbour so I know who's calling.

For wireless I'm going to wait for a PDA with WiFi and VoIP.
I could turn blue waiting, but it's an option
that makes better sense than a pure cell phone
now that 95% of my communication is now email
not voice.


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Anonymous
March 2, 2005 5:03:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

malingerer@gmail.com wrote:
> Doubt it.. check out
> http://www.virginmobile.ca/web/pages/pricesAndFeatures.... .. quite the the
> deal.. not :-/

Not too bad. Cheaper than I'm paying now with Fido, I'm on their $20/200
plan plus $6 for voice mail and call display, plus $6.95+0.50 for fees.

So if I go with Virgin I could get their $25/month plan which gives you
roughly 200 minutes a month, and that includes voicemail, call display,
the system fees, and I get free long distance calling (well, 25 cents
extra per call I guess) to boot.

Not actually too bad. Of course, it is billing by the minute...
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 5:05:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

Kevin <kevin@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> the system fees, and I get free long distance calling (well, 25 cents
> extra per call I guess) to boot.

Oops, I misinterpreted. That's 25 cents per minute. Silly me.
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 6:54:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

malingerer@gmail.com wrote:
> Doubt it.. check out
> http://www.virginmobile.ca/web/pages/pricesAndFeatures.... .. quite the the
> deal.. not :-/

Initial toughts:

Pricing is good and comparable to Fido's, and in fact probably better
than the 0.30 per minute Fido charges.

Their phones are pathetic.

No mention of billing by second or minute. on the above page, but on
http://www.virginmobile.ca/web/pages/prices_features_02...
they confirm billing by the minute.

No mention of GPRS (or whatever proprietary equivalent on that CDMA
thing). But there is mention you can download games.

Advantages:
caller ID and voice mail are included for free above what Fido offers.
SMS is 0.10 to send and free to receive in canada and USA (both for SMS
and email).

Bad stuff:
charged airtime for all call-forwarded minutes.
$25 per minute for long distance, and that is a ripoff. Fido charges $0.10


If Virgin had chosen GSM, I would be fare less reluctant to move to them.


Now, the $25 monthly plan, will give you between:
125 minutes if all are charged at 0.20 (use less than 5 minutes per day).
245 minutes if you use them all up on the same day

With certain usage patterns, this compares favourably with Fido's 200
minutes for 26.95 (advertised as $20), especially if you add the $8.00
for caller id and voice mail that you have to pay on Fido.


The per minute rate when you've consumed all your bank mintes at 0.10
beats Fido's monthly plans.
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 6:59:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

> > Doubt it.. check out
> > http://www.virginmobile.ca/web/pages/pricesAndFeatures.... .. quite the
the
> > deal.. not :-/
>
> Not too bad. Cheaper than I'm paying now with Fido, I'm on their $20/200
> plan plus $6 for voice mail and call display, plus $6.95+0.50 for fees.
>
> So if I go with Virgin I could get their $25/month plan which gives you
> roughly 200 minutes a month, and that includes voicemail, call display,
> the system fees, and I get free long distance calling (well, 25 cents
> extra per call I guess) to boot.
>
> Not actually too bad. Of course, it is billing by the minute...

That does make a fair difference.. 40% I think?
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 7:01:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

Kevin wrote:
> the system fees, and I get free long distance calling (well, 25 cents
> extra per call I guess) to boot.


It isn't clear whether it is a flat fee or a per minute long distance
rate. Somehow, I doubt it would be a flat fee.
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 11:19:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

Congratulations. I'm 'Fido-free' as well. I hope everyone that goes
Fido-free thanks to the new Fido writes to let us know.

Who knows - perhaps if Virgin had negotiated a deal with Fido that
would have satisfied the banks enough to keep them from selling it.
Or perhaps Virgin did not pursue this option for the same reason (that
they knew the banks owned it and could sell it, leaving them hung out
to dry). In any case, they chose not to go GSM in Canada, and that's
a shame.

On the plus side, their prepaid prices are quite attractive, and you
don't have to buy a phone from them, as their coverage includes Bell's
extensive analog service area. Get yourself a cheap analog phone off
of ebay and you're good to go. You'd still have to have to keep your
gsm phone handy for when you travel, however.

Hey, it's not much choice, but at least it's one more than there is in
the Rogers-Telus-Bell Mob. And don't be fooled into thinking that
there is a choice because there are still three wireless service
providers left. You'll be seeing all of their prices going up over
the next year, with longer contracts and higher handset prices as
well.

Someone earlier mentioned that they're waiting for one of the wireless
providers in the US to offer free roaming in Canada and get a deal
with them. If there was any chance of such a deal ever happening, it
disappeared with Rogers takeover. A shame too, since the companies
down there are beginning to offer obscene amounts of anytime minutes
in their plans.

DogTired <fidoguy@fido.somewhere> wrote in message news:<Xns960CBDBD56F09fidoguy@38.119.71.210>...
> I am now Fido-free.
>
> I must have been a preferred customer because I waited
> no more than a couple of minutes in the Q for service.
>
> However the first drone would not allow me to cancel
> my service and passed me on to another drone, likely
> a *customer-retention* department.
>
> I refused to answer the "but why?" question.
> I only hinted that it might have something
> to do with them being a Rogers company.
> I didn't mention the successive price increases
> I've had just in a few months for no extra service.
>
> I'm looking forward to Sir Richard shaking up the
> cell phone market. I think he might have the ability
> to stir things up a bit and restore a bit of the
> original Fido spirit to the mix.
>
> Yes, I know Virgin is going to be a Bell re-seller
> and will be partners with Bell. Maybe Bell will learn
> something. Although it might be the hard way.
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 6:38:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

"JF Mezei" <jfmezei.spamnot@teksavvy.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
1109752887.c45a4c7cac85d9fca6856acb4a911a30@teranews...
> malingerer@gmail.com wrote:
>> Doubt it.. check out
>> http://www.virginmobile.ca/web/pages/pricesAndFeatures.... .. quite the
>> the
>> deal.. not :-/
>
> Initial toughts:
>
> Pricing is good and comparable to Fido's, and in fact probably better
> than the 0.30 per minute Fido charges.
>

Yes but with fido prepaid you can get the 0.15 anytime ot the 0.40/0.05
night-we plan which is better.

The main advantage of virgin is the 120 days expiration date. But they will
not make a lot of money from that. And the have to pay bell bandits for the
use of their network.

> Their phones are pathetic.
>
> No mention of billing by second or minute. on the above page, but on
> http://www.virginmobile.ca/web/pages/prices_features_02...
> they confirm billing by the minute.
>
> No mention of GPRS (or whatever proprietary equivalent on that CDMA
> thing). But there is mention you can download games.
>
> Advantages:
> caller ID and voice mail are included for free above what Fido offers.
> SMS is 0.10 to send and free to receive in canada and USA (both for SMS
> and email).
>
> Bad stuff:
> charged airtime for all call-forwarded minutes.
> $25 per minute for long distance, and that is a ripoff. Fido charges $0.10
>

Yes, but better than bell 0.35!! Fido is the only normal priced LD in
wireless. I don't think the users of these phone will do a lot of LD
anyway.

>
> If Virgin had chosen GSM, I would be fare less reluctant to move to them.
>
For what? Since you can't use these outside canada it dosen't matter. The
sound will be a little worse that's all. Anyway for the teenager in the
night club (the target market if I look at the ads) he is probably already
deaf :)  The only real advantage would be the use of a unlocked phone.

>
> Now, the $25 monthly plan, will give you between:
> 125 minutes if all are charged at 0.20 (use less than 5 minutes per day).
> 245 minutes if you use them all up on the same day
>
> With certain usage patterns, this compares favourably with Fido's 200
> minutes for 26.95 (advertised as $20), especially if you add the $8.00
> for caller id and voice mail that you have to pay on Fido.
>
>
> The per minute rate when you've consumed all your bank mintes at 0.10
> beats Fido's monthly plans.

Don't forget you need to buy a phone at 100-250 + tax since no other phone
will work. With a fido plan you can get a 0-100$ phone in contract. This
save you 5-10$/ month.

The 25$ is the best deal with them with the low user prepaid also. Is a
good deal for some user, but not a revolution.
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 6:38:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 15:38:19 GMT, "Blandine"
<blandinebigard@hotmail.com> wrote:


>
>>
>> If Virgin had chosen GSM, I would be fare less reluctant to move to them.
>>
>For what? Since you can't use these outside canada it dosen't matter. The
>sound will be a little worse that's all. Anyway for the teenager in the
>night club (the target market if I look at the ads) he is probably already
>deaf :)  The only real advantage would be the use of a unlocked phone.
>

??? You can't use GSM phones outside of Canada??

That is sure a surprise to my GSM phone that has been working in most
every country I've been to in the past 5 years.

Please don't let Fido know that their GSM phones don't work outside of
Canada.
March 2, 2005 8:18:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 09:42:23 -0700, bob Suruncle <cat@the.litter.box>
wrote:

>On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 15:38:19 GMT, "Blandine"
><blandinebigard@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>>
>>> If Virgin had chosen GSM, I would be fare less reluctant to move to them.
>>>
>>For what? Since you can't use these outside canada it dosen't matter. The
>>sound will be a little worse that's all. Anyway for the teenager in the
>>night club (the target market if I look at the ads) he is probably already
>>deaf :)  The only real advantage would be the use of a unlocked phone.
>>
>
>??? You can't use GSM phones outside of Canada??
>
>That is sure a surprise to my GSM phone that has been working in most
>every country I've been to in the past 5 years.
>
>Please don't let Fido know that their GSM phones don't work outside of
>Canada.

Make that you cannot use Fido prepaid outside of Canada. Of course
you can use GSM outside of Canada, but only with either another
service or with monthly Fido service.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 5:24:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

<snip>
> If Virgin had chosen GSM, I would be fare less reluctant to move to them.

It wouldn't have made marketing sense for Virgin to go with GSM in
Canada now. That's because in the US, Virgin uses the Sprint PCS
network, which is exclusively CDMA. It would cause too much consumer
confusion.

I do agree that Virgin should have gone with GSM instead of CDMA.
However, when Virgin launched, GSM coverage was still spider web-like in
the US.

On another note, I think it's too bad that Vodafone didn't end up with
both AT&T Wireless and Fido. They would have made nice additions to the
Vodafone family.

TH
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 5:44:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

<snip>

> Someone earlier mentioned that they're waiting for one of the wireless
> providers in the US to offer free roaming in Canada and get a deal
> with them. If there was any chance of such a deal ever happening, it
> disappeared with Rogers takeover. A shame too, since the companies
> down there are beginning to offer obscene amounts of anytime minutes
> in their plans.


Actually that's been known to happen with at least 2.5 US carriers.

AT&T Wireless, probably because it owned an interest in Rogers Wireless,
offered "North American Package" add-ons where for 9.99/month/phone you
would eliminate long distance to Canada and roaming charges in Canada.
You would still have access to night and weekend minutes while in Canada.

Cingular offers a true North American GSM plan with coverage extended to
Mexico and parts of the Caribbean (this plan is not advertised, but is
available upon request.) Night/weekend and mobile to mobile minutes are
NOT available.

Verizon Wireless, which owns interest in Telus, offers "North America's
Choice", which is the AMPS/CDMA version of the Cingular plan.

I live in the United States right now and will be moving back to Canada,
and I will never give up the plan I have (legacy AT&T Wireless plan).
Here's the breakdown:

59.99 1100 Anytime Minutes
0.00 Unlimited Night/Weekend Minutes (starting at 7pm)
0.00 Unlimited Mobile to Mobile (Cingular/AT&T Wireless customers)
9.99 North American Package (primary line)
9.99 Second Line added
9.99 North American Package (second line)
0.00 Digital features (3way, call display, voicemail, limited data
usage, free incoming text/e-mail messages)
Plus, I get a generous monthly discount because of my employer.

I have my parents set up with the second phone (who live right along the
border), and with no roaming or long distance charges, it's great. They
don't have to worry about whether the phone is picking up a US or a
Canadian tower, and I don't have to worry about long distance charges to
Canada. I was also given a free Motorola V505 and LG L1150. (1 year
contract for each phone, which I thought was reasonable since they are
nice phones, and I'll keep this plan for years to come).

I had to call them for something or other that was really minor, and
they asked if I'd be interested in Cingular's North American plan, and I
said "No!" I think it's something like 59.99 for 400 minutes (no
night/weekend, no mobile to mobile, and no option to add a second line).
I think Verizon's is priced similarly.

I'm now grandfathered in and they can't take the plan away as long as I
don't switch and pay my montly bills. I told them they could have my
plan when they pry my phone from my dead lifeless body.

TH
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 5:54:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

"bob Suruncle" <cat@the.litter.box> a écrit dans le message de news:
22rb2157b1e6m0egovuiqpoqhknbq2848g@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 15:38:19 GMT, "Blandine"
> <blandinebigard@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>>
>>> If Virgin had chosen GSM, I would be fare less reluctant to move to
>>> them.
>>>
>>For what? Since you can't use these outside canada it dosen't matter.
>>The
>>sound will be a little worse that's all. Anyway for the teenager in the
>>night club (the target market if I look at the ads) he is probably already
>>deaf :)  The only real advantage would be the use of a unlocked phone.
>>
>
> ??? You can't use GSM phones outside of Canada??
>
> That is sure a surprise to my GSM phone that has been working in most
> every country I've been to in the past 5 years.
>
> Please don't let Fido know that their GSM phones don't work outside of
> Canada.
>

We talked about a prepaid service here. No prepaid can be used outside
canada. So you need to unlock your phone and buy a foreign SIM to use it.
Not the typical patern of the targeted virgin client. Note that some
european prepaid can be used outside their home country. So it's possible
but, as usual, we late here in Canada.
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 5:54:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

Blandine wrote:
> We talked about a prepaid service here. No prepaid can be used outside
> canada.

Virgin's web site says their phones can be used in canada USA. (same
price, no roaming fees, but of course, you pay the exhorbitant long
distance fees).
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 6:00:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

I currently live in the US as well. Initially, I was with Sprint - I
wanted a cell phone for emergency use and at the time, didn't consider
prepaid. When I ended up moving to NH from California, I found
Sprint's coverage very poor but had to wait a year to get out of my
contract.

I discovered Virgin Mobile USA quite by accident, and I haven't looked
back. Sprint had advertised that my phone would work in Canada - it
didn't. Now, I am paying about $80 US per yr for my cell phone versus
the $480 I was paying Sprint. (and no I don't work for Virgin)

The next time I am up in Canada, I will buy one of Virgin's phones to
use while I am travelling. Its a good deal as well. $15 Cdn to top
up every 4 months....that's only $75/yr for a phone that you may not
use all the time. I probably wouldn't do the $25/month plan, I hardly
use my cell phone as it is.

But that's just my 2 cents. :)  Also, its too bad that North American
cell phone companies can't mimic the policies offered in some European
countries. I know one person who has to only put money on their phone
like once a year and their plan is "active".
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 9:27:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

In article <6212bd00.0503020819.23a01bac@posting.google.com>,
sbdot@mailandnews.com (sbdot) wrote:

> Congratulations. I'm 'Fido-free' as well. I hope everyone that goes
> Fido-free thanks to the new Fido writes to let us know.

I plan to do this before I go overseas next month. Previously, I've just
put the account on the cheapest available plan. I'll miss GSM.

--
Steven Fisher; sdfisher@spamcop.net
"Morituri Nolumus Mori."
March 4, 2005 4:18:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

> Advantages:
> caller ID and voice mail are included for free above what Fido
offers.
> SMS is 0.10 to send and free to receive in canada and USA (both for
SMS
> and email).


Caller ID is still free for Fido prepaid. Not
positive about voice mail but I think Fido prepaid
charges airtime even if you retrieve your messages
from a landline.

Virgin says it is $0.20 to send SMSes internationally.
Has anyone tried to send to a GSM phone overseas or
heard of anyone doing it on Bell? Last I heard
(which was years ago), the intercarrier thing was
just for CA/US.
Anonymous
March 4, 2005 10:21:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

Yep, it sure was a technical problem. The phone ended up being the
"technical problem". When I was ending my Sprint service their
customer service noted my sprint cell phone was analog only - so in
Mississauga, I ended up with sporadic coverage. Very irritating,
especially since I had explicitly asked about digital pcs when I bought
the phone.

At least when I switched to Virgin, I know what I was getting into.
You pay for what you use. Trust me there are times where I go for
months without using my phone and at $6-7 USD is a cell phone bill I
can handle :) 

Can't wait to buy my Cdn Virgin Mobile phone when I can. :) 
Anonymous
March 4, 2005 11:51:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

<ptms123@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1109890856.366851.3190@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> I discovered Virgin Mobile USA quite by accident, and I haven't looked
> back. Sprint had advertised that my phone would work in Canada - it
> didn't.

Sounds like a technical problem. Sprint roams on Bell, Telus, Aliant,
SaskTel and MTS in Canada. A friend from Tampa who uses Sprint can use his
phone here in Saskatchewan without difficulty. Should have phoned Sprint.
:) 

I agree that Virgin Mobile is a good deal for cross-border users, though.

Jim
Anonymous
March 4, 2005 2:19:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

<ptms123@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1109949710.312276.137260@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Yep, it sure was a technical problem. The phone ended up being the
> "technical problem". When I was ending my Sprint service their
> customer service noted my sprint cell phone was analog only - so in
> Mississauga, I ended up with sporadic coverage. Very irritating,
> especially since I had explicitly asked about digital pcs when I bought
> the phone.

Weird. There is 1.9 GHz Telus and Bell service in Mississauga. Even if
your phone didn't support 800 MHz CDMA digital service, it shouldn't have
horribly mattered unless you were here in Saskatchewan (where we only have
1.9 GHz in the "big" cities and the rural coverage is all 800 MHz CDMA and
analog).

Jim
Anonymous
March 5, 2005 1:59:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

> But that's just my 2 cents. :)  Also, its too bad that North American
> cell phone companies can't mimic the policies offered in some European
> countries. I know one person who has to only put money on their phone
> like once a year and their plan is "active".

In some ways, it's good, because it doesn't cost an exhorbitant amount
of money to CALL a mobile in Canada.

TH
Anonymous
March 5, 2005 2:20:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 22:59:43 +0000, Tropical Haven wrote:

>> But that's just my 2 cents. :)  Also, its too bad that North American
>> cell phone companies can't mimic the policies offered in some European
>> countries. I know one person who has to only put money on their phone
>> like once a year and their plan is "active".
>
> In some ways, it's good, because it doesn't cost an exhorbitant amount of
> money to CALL a mobile in Canada.

Umm, actually the European system makes MUCH more sense.

Why should I, a cell phone owner, pay for a telemarketer to call me?? The
whole concept is silly.

In Europe they have a caller pays system: you know what you're calling,
you're choosing to pay for the call. The cell phone owner is NEVER charged
for something they never initiate.

Oh, and the cost is NOT exorbitant, usually calling a cell phone from a
land line costs less then the cell phone to call the landline.

TTYL
Anonymous
March 5, 2005 4:00:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

In message <pan.2005.03.05.04.20.31.274155@yahoo.com> repatch
<repatch42@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 22:59:43 +0000, Tropical Haven wrote:
>
>>> But that's just my 2 cents. :)  Also, its too bad that North American
>>> cell phone companies can't mimic the policies offered in some European
>>> countries. I know one person who has to only put money on their phone
>>> like once a year and their plan is "active".
>>
>> In some ways, it's good, because it doesn't cost an exhorbitant amount of
>> money to CALL a mobile in Canada.
>
>Umm, actually the European system makes MUCH more sense.
>
>Why should I, a cell phone owner, pay for a telemarketer to call me?? The
>whole concept is silly.
>
>In Europe they have a caller pays system: you know what you're calling,
>you're choosing to pay for the call. The cell phone owner is NEVER charged
>for something they never initiate.

Funny -- I'm in Canada I never get charged for an incoming call I don't
want to pay for. If I'm not willing to accept the charges, I don't
answer the phone.

That being said, while I see your position, I also disagree with it.
Why should the caller pay more because I choose to use a cellphone
rather then a landline?


--
Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill?
March 5, 2005 6:12:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 23:20:31 -0500, repatch <repatch42@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Umm, actually the European system makes MUCH more sense.
>
>Why should I, a cell phone owner, pay for a telemarketer to call me?? The
>whole concept is silly.

It's against the law for telemarketers to call cell phones.

>In Europe they have a caller pays system: you know what you're calling,
>you're choosing to pay for the call. The cell phone owner is NEVER charged
>for something they never initiate.

Yeah, and the caller to the mobile phone will sometimes pay ten times
as much to call a mobile phone as to call a regular number. The
caller to the mobile number has no say what he pays he'll pay the
tarriffed rate.

>Oh, and the cost is NOT exorbitant, usually calling a cell phone from a
>land line costs less then the cell phone to call the landline.

What planet are you on? It's exorbitant to call a cell phone from a
land line or a phone on another network. Why do you think SMS is so
popular in Europe and Asia? It's because voice calls are
prohibitively expensive during the day.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Anonymous
March 5, 2005 10:12:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

> Umm, actually the European system makes MUCH more sense.
>
> Why should I, a cell phone owner, pay for a telemarketer to call me?? The
> whole concept is silly.
>
> In Europe they have a caller pays system: you know what you're calling,
> you're choosing to pay for the call. The cell phone owner is NEVER charged
> for something they never initiate.
>
> Oh, and the cost is NOT exorbitant, usually calling a cell phone from a
> land line costs less then the cell phone to call the landline.

But that also opens up other issues, such as compatibility with number
portability. The technology is there, it's mandated in the United
States. Eventually, I think Canada's system will be similar to that of
the United States, where there are plans that incur no roaming or long
distance charges to calls to/from Canada. Part of the problem may lie
in the fact that Canada faces a much larger area to cover, and fewer
subscribers to recoup the costs of building the network.

TH
Anonymous
March 5, 2005 11:40:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

> That being said, while I see your position, I also disagree with it.
> Why should the caller pay more because I choose to use a cellphone
> rather then a landline?


Take that up with the phone companies. Not sure WHY they have
different rates (1 for landline phone #s, and 1 for cellular).
Personally, I think its just an excuse to get more $$....but I am just
the little guy.

Anyway, as for Europe, I think its T-Mobile I am thinking of, would
offer free incoming and roaming where your country of residence is in
(or where your cell phone is) and depedning on how much money you have
in your account. As soon as you went into another cellular area, then
you'd have to PAY. This would be true like some of the plans in the US
- i.e. Verizon, where as soon as you "roam" out of their area, then you
are charged more. I vaguely remembering having to pay like $1.95/min
for roaming charges when I used my Clearnet phone in the US 5 years ago
or so.

Text messaging is big in Europe as well - and I think the cheaper plan
of them all, but I haven't come across a text messaging as an only
option plan here in North America....probably not as big yet, or
viable? Unless, Blackberry will be moving in at this point.

---> Just my $0.02.
Anonymous
March 6, 2005 6:16:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

ptms123@yahoo.com wrote:
> Text messaging is big in Europe as well

Its big because everyone is GSM and GSM had internetwork connectivity
very early on.

Remember that CDMA and the now defunct TDMA networks didn't get SMS for
a long long time. And they didn't ever dare call it "SMS", because they
underestimate customers in north america, so they used "text messaging"
which just isn't the same as what everyone else uses in the world.
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 12:57:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 01:00:24 -0700, DevilsPGD wrote:

> Funny -- I'm in Canada I never get charged for an incoming call I don't
> want to pay for. If I'm not willing to accept the charges, I don't answer
> the phone.

Not always an option. For example, what if you don't have CID (considering
the insane amounts most companies want for CID). What about a person who
uses their phone for business call, how do you differentiate a possible
customer from a telemarketer? What about if you're expecting a call back
for an interview or something? There are LOTS of cases where the average
person could easily be dinged.

> That being said, while I see your position, I also disagree with it. Why
> should the caller pay more because I choose to use a cellphone rather
> then a landline?

Because it costs more. At least you, as the caller, HAVE the option to
call or not to call. As I just demonstrated there are MANY cases where the
receiver has no choice, they must pick up, and get dinged... (oh, and most
if not all of Europe has billing at 6 second or 1 second increments, they
don't even know what "per minute" billing is...)
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 1:07:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 15:12:48 -0800, Joseph wrote:

> On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 23:20:31 -0500, repatch <repatch42@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Umm, actually the European system makes MUCH more sense.
>>
>>Why should I, a cell phone owner, pay for a telemarketer to call me?? The
>>whole concept is silly.
>
> It's against the law for telemarketers to call cell phones.

Hehe, right, and that stops them, right? Sorry, but I've gotten quite a
few telemarketers on my cell phone (and even more direct to voice mail),
often calling with no CID info, so no way to trace them...

>>In Europe they have a caller pays system: you know what you're calling,
>>you're choosing to pay for the call. The cell phone owner is NEVER
>>charged for something they never initiate.
>
> Yeah, and the caller to the mobile phone will sometimes pay ten times as
> much to call a mobile phone as to call a regular number. The caller to
> the mobile number has no say what he pays he'll pay the tarriffed rate.

Actually he/she does have a say, most landline providers offer a variety
of packages when it comes to tarrifs, and the tarrifs I saw to mobiles
were quite reasonable.

>>Oh, and the cost is NOT exorbitant, usually calling a cell phone from a
>>land line costs less then the cell phone to call the landline.
>
> What planet are you on? It's exorbitant to call a cell phone from a
> land line or a phone on another network.

Compared to calling another landline? Yes. Compared to calling a landline
with a cell? Nope. You just have to get your head around it. Once you do
you'll find it's actually MORE logical then what we've got. For example,
as a cell phone user I call another cell phone user here on the same
network. I get charged to call, the receiver gets charged to receive, all
on the same network.

Now consider most of Europe: calling another cell phone on the same
network is about the same price as calling a landline, the receiver pays
nothing, notice how all of a sudden it's 1/2 the price?

Remember, whether the receiver pays or the caller pays the costs are the
same, the difference is the caller has a CHOICE on whether to pay or not,
the receiver does not. In the end the phone bills are going to be the
same, just distributed in a slightly different fashion.

> Why do you think SMS is so
> popular in Europe and Asia?

Because they did the right thing from the start: they decided on ONE
standard, and ensured SMSing from one provider to another was NO big deal.
Oh, that, and they NEVER charged to RECEIVE SMSs (which many providers in
NA have done from time to time, and I'm sure still do in some cases).

> It's because voice calls are prohibitively
> expensive during the day. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Sorry, sounds like you haven't BEEN to Europe recently, or at least the
areas you're familiar with are a little yesterday in pricing.

Calling on a cell phone in Europe is roughly the same price as here. In
some cases the per minute is more expensive on paper, but then you must
factor that taxes are INCLUDED, and it's per second (vs. the per minute of
most of NA). Add to that: receiving calls is ALWAYS free and the price
comes to about the same, even cheaper in some cases (i.e. GPRS data is
VERY cheap in some areas, compared to the joke we have in NA).
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 6:27:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

"repatch" <repatch42@yahoo.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
pan.2005.03.07.03.07.55.970227@yahoo.com...
> On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 15:12:48 -0800, Joseph wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 23:20:31 -0500, repatch <repatch42@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Umm, actually the European system makes MUCH more sense.
>>>
>>>Why should I, a cell phone owner, pay for a telemarketer to call me?? The
>>>whole concept is silly.
>>
>> It's against the law for telemarketers to call cell phones.
>
> Hehe, right, and that stops them, right? Sorry, but I've gotten quite a
> few telemarketers on my cell phone (and even more direct to voice mail),
> often calling with no CID info, so no way to trace them...
>
>>>In Europe they have a caller pays system: you know what you're calling,
>>>you're choosing to pay for the call. The cell phone owner is NEVER
>>>charged for something they never initiate.
>>
>> Yeah, and the caller to the mobile phone will sometimes pay ten times as
>> much to call a mobile phone as to call a regular number. The caller to
>> the mobile number has no say what he pays he'll pay the tarriffed rate.
>
> Actually he/she does have a say, most landline providers offer a variety
> of packages when it comes to tarrifs, and the tarrifs I saw to mobiles
> were quite reasonable.
>
>>>Oh, and the cost is NOT exorbitant, usually calling a cell phone from a
>>>land line costs less then the cell phone to call the landline.
>>
>> What planet are you on? It's exorbitant to call a cell phone from a
>> land line or a phone on another network.
>
> Compared to calling another landline? Yes. Compared to calling a landline
> with a cell? Nope. You just have to get your head around it. Once you do
> you'll find it's actually MORE logical then what we've got. For example,
> as a cell phone user I call another cell phone user here on the same
> network. I get charged to call, the receiver gets charged to receive, all
> on the same network.
>
> Now consider most of Europe: calling another cell phone on the same
> network is about the same price as calling a landline, the receiver pays
> nothing, notice how all of a sudden it's 1/2 the price?
>
> Remember, whether the receiver pays or the caller pays the costs are the
> same, the difference is the caller has a CHOICE on whether to pay or not,
> the receiver does not. In the end the phone bills are going to be the
> same, just distributed in a slightly different fashion.
>
>> Why do you think SMS is so
>> popular in Europe and Asia?
>
> Because they did the right thing from the start: they decided on ONE
> standard, and ensured SMSing from one provider to another was NO big deal.
> Oh, that, and they NEVER charged to RECEIVE SMSs (which many providers in
> NA have done from time to time, and I'm sure still do in some cases).
>
>> It's because voice calls are prohibitively
>> expensive during the
>> day. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> Sorry, sounds like you haven't BEEN to Europe recently, or at least the
> areas you're familiar with are a little yesterday in pricing.
>
> Calling on a cell phone in Europe is roughly the same price as here. In
> some cases the per minute is more expensive on paper, but then you must
> factor that taxes are INCLUDED, and it's per second (vs. the per minute of
> most of NA). Add to that: receiving calls is ALWAYS free and the price
> comes to about the same, even cheaper in some cases (i.e. GPRS data is
> VERY cheap in some areas, compared to the joke we have in NA).
>

Yes and this system almost force you to own a cell phone since the calls to
another cells are included in your package. If you don't own one, you pay
exorbitant rates to call them from a landline. As more people has one, the
more of your freinds are only reacheable with a cell, the more you need one.
Great for the cell companies.

Remember also than in europe pepole are used to pay for a call. You pay for
every local call from a landline. Also the 1-800 lines are rares at least
in france where you need to pay for reaching customer service of an internet
provider or a... cell pnone company! Try to do that here and you will loose
all of your clients.
Anonymous
March 7, 2005 6:27:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 15:27:16 +0000, Blandine wrote:
> Yes and this system almost force you to own a cell phone since the calls
> to another cells are included in your package. If you don't own one, you
> pay exorbitant rates to call them from a landline. As more people has
> one, the more of your freinds are only reacheable with a cell, the more
> you need one. Great for the cell companies.
>
> Remember also than in europe pepole are used to pay for a call. You pay
> for every local call from a landline. Also the 1-800 lines are rares at
> least in france where you need to pay for reaching customer service of an
> internet provider or a... cell pnone company! Try to do that here and you
> will loose all of your clients.

I've heard this "they are used to paying" excuse before, and sorry, it
just doesn't fly, for two reasons:

1: Cell phone costs are about the same as here, most cell phone bills I've
seen in Europe (which right there is rare since prepaid is actually VERY
common over there, even business people use prepaid, it doesn't have the
stigma it has here) are about the same as your average bill here. If
"they're used to paying" but the amount they're paying is the same as us,
what difference does it make?

2: Yes, they pay for all local calls, but if you actually do the
math the costs again are about the same. Why? Well their monthly charges
are FAR less. For example, for one telco I'm aware of the monthly charge
for landline service is 7Euro. ~$11/month. Oh, and that, of course,
includes tax. You can pay more a month if you want lower tariffs, but that
only makes sense if you make ALOT of calls. Ahh, but they pay for every
call right? Right. You know what the average monthly bill I've seen is?
About the same as here. In fact one bill I'm very familiar with is
always less then 20 Euro a month (~$30/month, INCLUDING tax), and that
INCLUDES quite a few overseas calls.

People often think of Europe as expensive, and it can be. There is no
doubt that certain items ARE more expensive. But if you remember that
almost every price in Europe INCLUDES tax then things aren't so black and
white. And there ARE certain areas where Europe is FAR cheaper. Things
like cheese, cold cuts and bakery items are often FAR cheaper then what we
have here, and often much better quality.

And don't get me started with alcohol and how we are RIPPED over here...
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 2:22:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

Incoming calls is not the issue for most people since people can generally
not answer the phone if they are afraid of the charge and they don't have
CID. The issue for most people is getting charged for SMS messages. With SMS
messages, you automatically pay when you receive it. There is no way around
it. At least with incoming calls, you can choose to not pick up the phone if
you don't want to pay for the call. With SMS, this isn't possible. That is
why I called Fido and told them that I wanted them to only allow for network
SMS messages (i.e. minute minder messages, voice mail notification messages,
etc.). Unscrupulous telemarkers/spammers can spam you with SMS messages and
you are forced to pay for them regardless of what you do if your phone is
on.


"repatch" <repatch42@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:p an.2005.03.07.02.57.40.439682@yahoo.com...
> On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 01:00:24 -0700, DevilsPGD wrote:
>
> > Funny -- I'm in Canada I never get charged for an incoming call I don't
> > want to pay for. If I'm not willing to accept the charges, I don't
answer
> > the phone.
>
> Not always an option. For example, what if you don't have CID (considering
> the insane amounts most companies want for CID). What about a person who
> uses their phone for business call, how do you differentiate a possible
> customer from a telemarketer? What about if you're expecting a call back
> for an interview or something? There are LOTS of cases where the average
> person could easily be dinged.
>
> > That being said, while I see your position, I also disagree with it. Why
> > should the caller pay more because I choose to use a cellphone rather
> > then a landline?
>
> Because it costs more. At least you, as the caller, HAVE the option to
> call or not to call. As I just demonstrated there are MANY cases where the
> receiver has no choice, they must pick up, and get dinged... (oh, and most
> if not all of Europe has billing at 6 second or 1 second increments, they
> don't even know what "per minute" billing is...)
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 9:28:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 23:22:09 -0500, "Harry Eugene Ly"
<consumers-get-bad-service@big-f*-companies.com> wrote:

>Incoming calls is not the issue for most people since people can generally
>not answer the phone if they are afraid of the charge and they don't have
>CID. The issue for most people is getting charged for SMS messages. With SMS
>messages, you automatically pay when you receive it.

Fido no longer charges for SMS received. However, there is a charge
for SMS that originated form their web site.
Anonymous
March 8, 2005 3:41:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 11:28:32 GMT, Ototin <bangsit@balay.ca> wrote in
news:8u2r21dc5pcrkajj23qo9drbu5il9ns8ra@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 23:22:09 -0500, "Harry Eugene Ly"
> <consumers-get-bad-service@big-f*-companies.com> wrote:
>
>>Incoming calls is not the issue for most people since people can
>>generally not answer the phone if they are afraid of the charge and
>>they don't have CID. The issue for most people is getting charged for
>>SMS messages. With SMS messages, you automatically pay when you
>>receive it.
>
> Fido no longer charges for SMS received. However, there is a charge
> for SMS that originated form their web site.

I suspect that phone-to-phone SMS received are free.
Anything received from a source other than another phone
or Fido *promotional* SMS messages are likely charged.
I never bothered to check that since they changed
the policy, so someone else will have to confirm that.

Most of my communications is now email.
Receiving a filtered version of my email
traffic to my phone at a *reasonable* rate would have
kept me as a customer. I remember back when I used to
forward important emails to the phone. It was very
handy and convenient. But it became too expensive.


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Anonymous
March 10, 2005 10:16:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

Sorry but that is what I meant. I know that phone SMS messages are free but
anything other than a phone SMS costs money to receive it and I also believe
that there is no way of differentiating this and refusing anything other
than phone SMS messages and Fido generated SMS messages. The only option
that Fido gave me was to turn off SMS all together (but I still get Fido
generated SMS messages such as voice mail notification and minute minder
warnings as well as the very infrequent Fido promotional SMS). The moment
someone decides to send you an SMS via a computer or via a chat window, you
automatically get charged. There is no way of refusing this "call" by not
picking it up like you can do with a phone call.




"DogTired" <fidoguy@fido.somewhere> wrote in message
news:Xns96138AEA27A9Cfidoguy@38.119.71.210...
> On Tue, 08 Mar 2005 11:28:32 GMT, Ototin <bangsit@balay.ca> wrote in
> news:8u2r21dc5pcrkajj23qo9drbu5il9ns8ra@4ax.com:
>
> > On Mon, 7 Mar 2005 23:22:09 -0500, "Harry Eugene Ly"
> > <consumers-get-bad-service@big-f*-companies.com> wrote:
> >
> >>Incoming calls is not the issue for most people since people can
> >>generally not answer the phone if they are afraid of the charge and
> >>they don't have CID. The issue for most people is getting charged for
> >>SMS messages. With SMS messages, you automatically pay when you
> >>receive it.
> >
> > Fido no longer charges for SMS received. However, there is a charge
> > for SMS that originated form their web site.
>
> I suspect that phone-to-phone SMS received are free.
> Anything received from a source other than another phone
> or Fido *promotional* SMS messages are likely charged.
> I never bothered to check that since they changed
> the policy, so someone else will have to confirm that.
>
> Most of my communications is now email.
> Receiving a filtered version of my email
> traffic to my phone at a *reasonable* rate would have
> kept me as a customer. I remember back when I used to
> forward important emails to the phone. It was very
> handy and convenient. But it became too expensive.
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
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Anonymous
April 28, 2005 12:24:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.fido (More info?)

repatch <repatch42@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hehe, right, and that stops them, right? Sorry, but I've gotten quite
> a few telemarketers on my cell phone (and even more direct to voice
> mail), often calling with no CID info, so no way to trace them...

What's even more pathetic, as you can't even BLOCK "private" numbers from
calling your cellphone like you can on a land line. Your number gets into the
wrong hands, your doomed.

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